The Committee met at 9:00 a.m. in the House of Assembly Chamber.

CHAIR (Mr. R. Wiseman): Order, please!

For the record, my name is Ralph Wiseman. I am Chair of the Government Services Committee.

This morning we have with us the Department of Government Services and Lands, to review their Estimates. The procedures have not changed, the minister will have a fifteen-minute opening remark if he so wishes and we will have fifteen minutes to respond and will alternate every ten minutes.

I will introduce to you the members of the Committee: Robert French, Gerald Smith and Doug Oldford.

I want to welcome the Minister and his staff and ask him if he would introduce his staff. So, Minister, if you would, introduce your staff and then we will have the Clerk call the Heads.

MR. McLEAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

We certainly appreciate the opportunity to appear before the Committee. Before we get started, I would like to introduce the staff I have with me: I have Barbara Wakeham, the Deputy Minister here on my left; next to her is Wilson Barfoot, the ADM for Lands; Mike Dwyer, the ADM for Government Services; Winston Morris, the ADM for Commercial and Corporate Affairs; and we also have Ken Curtis, our Budget Officer, who is actually, I suppose, employed with Municipal and Provincial Affairs, but the three departments cost-share the administrative portion of the department, so he is representing that portion of it.

I have an opening statement that we have prepared because it is a new department with only one year in; and we have a number of certainly different divisions, so I would start off with a prepared statement.

Mr. Chairman, since the creation of this department in March 1996, Government Services and Lands have brought together most of the government permitting, licensing and regulatory functions, and has taken many steps to improve the business climate in this Province, to increase consumer protection and to promote efficient and effective use of our Crown Land resources. This process is not yet complete. In fact, we are looking at other program areas which might logically fit into this department, and we are also looking at services currently offered by the Federal Government to see if they might be delivered under agreement by the Department of Government Services and Lands.

Mr. Chairman, the Lands branch of my department is responsible for all aspects of administering Crown lands resources of the Province and that includes: surveying and mapping, development and multi-use land management plans, and also securing and guaranteeing land titles. One of the Province's most important natural resources, of course, is land itself, particularly Crown lands.

Currently, Crown lands cover about 95 per cent of the land mass in the Province and our Crown holdings provide much of the forest, mineral, wildlife. agriculture, recreational and major water resources. The Land branch is responsible for management of approximately ninety-five million acres of Crown lands and has a budget of $ 4 million.

The Commercial and Corporate Affairs branch of my department facilitates business operations in the Province and ensures that consumers are protected. This branch is responsible for the regulation of the insurance industry, the trust and loan industry, the credit union industry, the real estate industry and the securities industry; collection agencies, mortgage brokers, automobile dealers, provincial lotteries and private investigation agencies. It is also responsible for fire-arms requisition and registration; the registration of deeds, companies, bills of sale and landlord-tenant relations.

Mr. Chairman, the regulation of all provincially-registered financial institutions has now been incorporated into this branch. This provides for a more efficient regulatory system, and you would probably remember a lot of the amendments to the legislation that we have been bringing through is updating all this so that the department can be responsible for it.

The branch has eliminated the annual requirements for the industries it regulates and has replaced them with a one-time continuous licensing system, which is a fairly substantial step. It has also discontinued the licensing of individuals in industries where a qualifying examination is not required. This reduces red tape for companies and individuals in these industries without reducing consumer protection. The Commercial and Corporate Affairs branch has a budget of $3.13 million.

The Government Services branch provides one-stop shopping for processing of various permits, licences, approvals and inspections pertaining to public health and safety, highway safety, driver and vehicle registration, controlled use of land and environmental issues, building accessibility issues, and collection and distribution of vital statistics. The branch has addressed many inefficiencies in the system and has eliminated duplication of services provided by a myriad of agencies. The branch has a budget of $14.9 million.

In the Budget, the Department of Government Services and Lands announced it would eliminate the residential tenancies boards, introduce a one licence plate program for passenger vehicles, introduce a one validation sticker program for all vehicles, and privatize driver examinations within six months.

Mr. Chairman, with respect to the elimination of the tenancies boards, I believe this measure will be viewed favourably by the landlords and tenants alike. Disputes will be resolved in a simpler, less formal, and less intimidating manner. All court time will be saved as complaints and decisions will not have to be registered through the court system. The $50 court fee will be eliminated. Tenants, in particular, have complained about having to pay this fee, and about the court process because of the time lag. Officials of the court have also raised concerns about the court time taken up by this current process. While disputes will now be handled by the residential tenancies division of the department, landlords and tenants will still have the right of appeal to the courts.

With respect to the one plate program for passenger vehicles, and the one sticker program for all vehicles, I would like to point out that seven of the twelve Canadian jurisdictions currently use this concept. A number of jurisdictions that still use the two plates use only one sticker in that process. Those stickers are generally always displayed on the rear plates. This measure will also enable the general public to display personalized plates on the front of their vehicles. It will also boost the vanity plate business. So if you like the Montreal Canadians or something like that, you can stick your plate on the front there, Anthony. Good stuff?

Mr. Chairman, with respect to our intention to privatize driver examinations, I would like to say that the department believes this service can be provided by the private sector without any loss of levels of service. In fact, we believe the levels of service may increase because of the privatized services. It may be offered in areas where we currently do not offer those services, and it may be open outside of regular business hours that we generally run, so we do not foresee any downgrading of service. Certainly, while government will lose the revenues from these fees, there will be a net saving to government due to the reduction in operational costs. Existing staff will be pre-qualified to provide this service, and the department will hold discussions with existing staff to determine if they are interested in the proposed service.

Government Services and Lands is a service-oriented arm of government that is seeking to improve the business climate in the Province, to ensure consumer protection, and to ensure our land resources are managed properly. My department currently manages a budget of $22.8 million, and that nets out to $19.5 million. We have a staff of 480 employees: 456 permanent, and the rest are contractual or temporary. It has regional and sub-regional offices throughout the Province, and we administer over 100 legislative Acts.

The Department of Government Services and Lands achieved a 15.3 per cent net budget reduction over 1996 in supporting government's overall fiscal objectives, and it has exceeded its targets over the three-year projection to the year 2000. We do not anticipate any significant impact on human resources over the next two years excepting what would normally occur through attrition and retirement.

Certainly, Mr. Chairman, that concludes my opening remarks. I have my officials here with me, and we would be delighted to answer your questions or make comments on anything you might have to ask.

Thank you.

CHAIR: Thank you very much, Minister. I will now ask the Clerk to call the head.

CLERK (Mr. J. Noel): Subhead 1.1.01.

CHAIR: Mr. French, you are going right into questions.

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

Mr. Minister, I guess the same as last night, there are some questions here concerning salaries. I do not want to sit here all morning, I am sure, the same as you do not, to wait for somebody to find answers for me on salaries; so if you wish, when I come to Salaries, if the answer is not readily available, then I would ask one of your officials to make a note of the salary; why the increase or the decrease; what positions, if any; who has been hired or who has gone, that type of thing, and you could certainly forward that on to our office afterwards in writing. I think that is what Minister Bettney did last night, so if you want to do the same, that is fine with me.

On page 39, Salaries, there is - I guess it stands out for a reason - it is only $6,900. It is a very small amount of money, and I just wondered. There is a decrease in $6,900; why?

MR. McLEAN: Which line are you looking at?

MR. FRENCH: I am looking at 01, Salaries, under Minister's Office. There is a decline of $6,900.

MR. McLEAN: That is under Minister's Office, 1.1.0l?

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. McLEAN: Line 01?

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. McLEAN: Okay.

MS WAKEHAM: The answer is that last year, when we set up the department, the actual figures for Salaries were only estimated and this is the true figure.

You will also find, Mr. French, in some of the salaries, as you go, there are very small amounts. It is either a rounding off that was done or it was because the estimates, because of the new department, were not established with respect to each of the classifications, and in some cases it is just a rounding up with respect to where there was a step increase or decrease and some of the figures have changed, but you will not see a substantial or significant amount except for those program areas where the positions were changed this year.

MR. FRENCH: Okay, on Executive Support - come down a bit. Again, in Salaries, there is a difference of $60,000.

MS WAKEHAM: Okay. Last year, if you look at the revised, it says $506,000. We had permission from Treasury Board for a Director of Communications position. We did not put the position in, or did not have approval to put the position in, until September. Now what 1997 is showing is the full cost of the position.

MR. FRENCH: Have we hired somebody in that position?

MS WAKEHAM: That was a redeployment. That was Mr. Callahan coming over from Executive Council to our department.

MR. McLEAN: He only started in September.

MS WAKEHAM: Yes.

MR. McLEAN: That is why the difference.

MR. FRENCH: On page 40, under Trade Practices And Licensing, there is a difference again in Salaries of $25,400.

MS WAKEHAM: Yes. This reflects the change and restructuring of the department in that particular branch, and the elimination of a position. We combined two positions in one.

MR. FRENCH: So you say there was a position eliminated?

MS. WAKEHAM: Yes. Basically, we had two director positions. We combined them as a Director of Trade Practices and Licensing instead of one - we had a Director of Trade Practices and a Director of Licensing. We combined the two positions.

MR. FRENCH: Somebody was then laid off. You say you -

MS WAKEHAM: It was a vacant position at the time.

WITNESS: Due to retirement?

MS WAKEHAM: A retirement.

MR. FRENCH: Okay.

MS WAKEHAM: Yes, so normal attrition. We combined and did a reorganization.

MR. McLEAN: It was all part of the reorganization of the department. Because when we took a lot of the sections from other departments we were able to combine some of the divisions. Therefore, some of the positions were then made redundant.

MR. FRENCH: Come down to 2.1.01.03, Transportation and Communications. It is increased by $10,100.

MS WAKEHAM: I would ask Mr. Morris to -

MR. MORRIS: The reason for the increase in Transportation and Communications in that division is due to where we are doing more examinations of our lotteries, real estate companies, and so on, outside of St. John's. For a number of years now we have not had sufficient funding to do proper examinations outside the St. John's area because of restrictions on travel. We had requested more funding this year to allow us to do that and it was approved.

MR. FRENCH: You say lottery. Would that be like, say, Atlantic Lotto, that type of thing?

MR. MORRIS: No. We do not regulate Atlantic Lotto. That is an organization that is owned by the four Atlantic Provinces, you probably know. We regulate provincially-registered lotteries, such as bingos, charities, you know, raffles and that sort of thing, around the Province.

MR. FRENCH: So Atlantic Lotto would come under Finance, I guess, would it?

MR. MORRIS: That is correct, yes.

MR. FRENCH: Then I will save my questions on Atlantic Lotto for Finance.

MR. McLEAN: Basically, Bob, the licensing that we regulate is -

MR. FRENCH: Yes, I know.

MR. McLEAN: - just the general standard stuff you get on your -

MR. FRENCH: Like Lions Club or whatever, yes.

MR. McLEAN: Yes, the charitable organizations.

CHAIR: For the record, I would like to welcome Ed Byrne, the Member for Kilbride, who is also a Committee member.

MR. McLEAN: Good morning, Ed.

MR. E. BYRNE: Good morning.

MR. FRENCH: Okay - this is only a couple of thousand dollars, I will not bother with that. What action has been taken to increase Information Technology by $98,200? That is line 2.1.01.12. It has gone from $44,800 to $143,000.

MR. McLEAN: We have looked at a new computer program or a computer system or a new lottery licensing system, I suppose, if you want to call it that. We have to bring everything up to a level now that we can manage these things. In the past we have basically done all of this under the old administrative or the old processes, but now we need to get into the computer age. It is to enhance the lottery licensing system. There is also an alert system. Now, somebody is going to have to tell me what the initials stand for in - A-L-E-R-T system as well, to enhance that system. What is it?

MR. MORRIS: The ALERT system is a licensing system we have for licensing all of our insurance agents, our real estate agents, mortgage brokers, etcetera. It is fair to say, I guess, since that has been put in place a number of years ago it has created a lot of difficulties, it has not worked properly. So we have some money set aside to improve that. As well, we require some changes to the system because, as was previously mentioned in the minister's opening statement, we have gone to a continuous or one-time licensing system instead of an annual licensing system. So that has required some adjustments.

On the lotteries system as well now, what we are doing there, we are going to have this computer system available in the government service centres around the Province so that people outside of St. John's can actually go to a government service centre and get a licence on-site rather than having to get it from St. John's. So that is part of the computer system for the lotteries as well.

CHAIR: I would like to interject, just for the record, I thought that Mr. Anthony Sparrow, the MHA for Placentia, was here when we did the introduction but he came in slightly late. So for the record, Anthony Sparrow has joined us.

Go ahead Bob.

MR. FRENCH: If you could, go on to page 41, Minister. Again, "Residential Tenancies; Appropriations provide for the administration of the Residential Tenancies Act." Again, in Salaries there is a difference of $42,000. Would that be where you joined up parts of the division?

MR. McLEAN: No, in this case, Bob, under that salary level we provided funding for a Chair of the Residential Tenancies Board for six months until September when we will be dropping the boards. I think September, is it, the date that -

WITNESS: (Inaudible) the money is for transition.

MR. McLEAN: We are disbanding the Residential Tenancies Board. There was one Chair hired in place with the department and that salary is for the half-year. That is why you see the reflection in the downturn there from $375,000 to $333,000.

MR. FRENCH: I think you may have touched on it in your opening address. So what happens now once we do away with the Residential Tenancies Board? Are the hearings then - is it then a court thing? How do we handle it?

MR. McLEAN: I will let the ADM describe that, but we will be doing it in the department rather than going through the court process initially. I will let Winst explain that to you, because it will be a new system.

MR. MORRIS: The new system will be basically a mediation process handled by the staff of the division. This system is in place in a number of other provinces already, such as New Brunswick, Manitoba and B.C., I think. Nova Scotia is implementing the same system. This will be much more user-friendly for the people involved, tenants and landlords.

Many times you are dealing with very small amounts of money with disputes, like security deposits and whatnot, minor damages done. The previous system was where a tenant or a landlord had to go down to court and pay $50 to get a complaint registered. The court would then refer that to a tenancies board which would hold a hearing, make a decision and send the decision back down to the court. The judge would have to review it and if he agreed, sign it off; if he disagreed, go back to the court. This took a lot of time, both from the court and ourselves and for the landlords and tenants.

So the new system will involve disputes to be handled by our own staff. A decision is made and then if either the landlord or the tenant disagreed, they have a right to appeal to the courts if they did not agree with the decision of our own staff. As a result of this, we have six tenancies boards now in the Province. Most of the members are part-time with one full-time Chairman. So all of those positions will be eliminated and as you can see, further on there will be substantial savings in travel and professional services as well because of that.

MR. FRENCH: Transportation and Communications has been reduced by $9,100.

MR. MORRIS: Yes, that is correct.

MR. FRENCH: Why would that be?

MR. McLEAN: Well, that is because the boards are being eliminated. That is travel for the board members when they go to hearings.

MR. FRENCH: Professional Services, of course, there is nothing budgeted, and I would assume the same reasoning.

MR. MORRIS: Yes.

MS WAKEHAM: Mr. French, all of the changes you see across all the accounts there are as a result of the elimination of the Tenancies board.

MR. FRENCH: The $72,000 that we spent in 1996-1997, would those bills have been for legal advice?

MR. MORRIS: No, that is the per diems actually paid to the part-time board members. They would get paid for every hearing they attended. You could call that legal, I suppose, but most of them were not lawyers. One or two of these people would be lawyers but most of them are not.

MR. FRENCH: So these would be actually sitting members of the board.

MR. MORRIS: Yes.

MR. FRENCH: If we could go on down to 2.1.04, Insurance and Pensions. The budget for Transportation and Communications is increased by $16,800. I just wonder why.

MR. McLEAN: Because of the changes within the department, we will be assuming the responsibilities from the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada - for that reason. Maybe Winst can explain it a little more, since he is more involved in that.

MR. MORRIS: Right now in Newfoundland we have in the insurance industry a lot of agents and brokers that we regulate, but we also have - we had five insurance companies, now we are down to four, through buy-outs and so on. We have four local insurance companies. Newfoundland is rather unique in that way, like in Atlantic Canada. None of the other provinces have insurance companies per se that they regulate. For the last couple of years we have had the Office of Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada, normally called OSFI, do these examinations for us. If you see the Professional Services line down there, you see $108,000 last year. That is what we paid them to do those examinations.

We are now training our own staff to do that work. It is very specialized work in regulating insurance companies. In order to do that we have had to send our staff to Toronto on two occasions for training, and that is where you see the Employee Benefits up, as well, to $4,100 from $1,400 last year. It is because there are training courses involved with that which we have had to send them on.

Another reason for the increase in travel - part of it is two trips to Toronto for our staff. Another reason for the increase is again, as we mentioned with the real estate side of it, we have not done any examinations outside of St. John's with respect to our insurance agents and brokers because of lack of travel funds. We identify a serious need to do that. In fact, last year one insurance agent went out of business outside of St. John's, and we want to do more examinations for those insurance agencies and brokers outside the city. That is another reason why transportation has increased.

MR. FRENCH: (Inaudible).

CHAIR: I will allow Mr. French to finish his questions on that particular page, and then we will move on to Gerald.

MR. FRENCH: You may have partly answered this, but under Professional Services, can the minister indicate where these budgeted accounts came from, and which headings contained in the 1996-1997 Estimates are combined in the 1997-1998 Estimates? Can the minister provide a breakdown of the combined allocations based on the figures? Or again are we showing a reduction here because of - well, I guess the question is: Why are we showing a reduction here in Professional Services?

MS WAKEHAM: The reduction from the $108,000 to $86,000 is the result of not having as much requirement for the office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions where we have our people trained up now. We can undertake some of the services that would normally be provided by them and, in fact, over the next two years, when our staff is fully trained, they will not require any monies to cover that particular type of audit.

MR. FRENCH: Okay, and down at the bottom we show Revenue Provincial $120,000. I am just curious as to where that comes from.

MS WAKEHAM: The revenue increase is as a result of changes in the fee structure for the registration of pension plans which we are also responsible for in the department.

MR. FRENCH: And that would come from - Would you just repeat that answer again for me, please?

MS WAKEHAM: Companies that are required to register pension plans for their employees, register with our department. We are responsible for pension standards as opposed to Finance. It was a responsibility that was transferred to our department last year. There has been an increase in the registration fee itself and what you are seeing there, from $78,100 to $120,000, is reflecting the increased fee for the registration of pension plans.

MR. FRENCH: Okay, thank you.

CHAIR: Mr. Smith.

MR. SMITH: Mr. Minister, there is one area that I wanted to pursue for just a few minutes.

Just yesterday, we received a memo with regard to the Vital Statistics Registry, that the office is being relocated, and looking here in the Budget, I note that there is an increase over the amount to be voted this year as compared to what was budgeted for last year, while the actual expenditure has exceeded the budgeted amount. I wonder if you could just speak in general terms as to the reasons behind making the move. Does this signal some sort of a re-organization within that area or, just generally, why is this move being made at this specific time?

MR. MERCER: Gerald, what we are trying to do is to decentralize the service somewhat - not so much decentralize it, we want to still provide the service here, but we want to get that service for the vital statistics areas out into the regions, so that it will enable people to go to the government service centres and do the business they have to do there completely, not just passing in an application form and some time later on, you get, you know, your certificate or card, or whatever, back in the mail. What we are trying to do is to disperse that service so that it is offered in every area that we offer the government service centres, so that we can have, you know, a service that is across the Province complete in the vital statistics areas, which we do not have right now.

MR. SMITH: Okay, but does that explain why we are - and I guess my question pertains more to: why are we relocating it? Right now, it is situated within Confederation Building. My understanding is, it is being relocated elsewhere in town. Are we putting that into a rental area or is this going into a government-owned building or just what exactly is it?

MR. McLEAN: The service actually has left the Confederation Building and gone to our service centre in St. John's, Mews Place.

MR. SMITH: Alright.

MR. McLEAN: It has gone in because it is a part of the servicing aspect of our department and we have put it in with all the other services that are offered in the St. John's area through Mews Place and this will be applicable to all of the others: Clarenville, Gander, Corner Brook, Goose Bay, Grand Falls and those areas as well.

MR. SMITH: Okay, that is fine. Thank you very much; that is it for me, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIR: Okay. I will go to Mr. Byrne.

MR. E. BYRNE: Sure. Dealing with page 43, subhead 3.1.01, Motor Vehicle Registration. I am just looking at the salary increase in Administration, up from $442,000 last year, to $562,900. Have there been two, three four, or a number of positions added to Administration or, what caused that increase by approximately $120,000?

MR. McLEAN: Ed, we have opened a new Government Service Centre in Wabush, Labrador and this reflects these three employees or four? One-and-a-half employees that we have added to that service centre in Wabush which was not there before.

MR. E. BYRNE: I understand. What services are being offered at the Government Service Centre in Wabush?

MR. McLEAN: Full service.

MR. E. BYRNE: Pardon me?

MR. McLEAN: Full service.

MR. E. BYRNE: Could you explain a little bit for me, please.

MR. DWYER: The service that you receive in Lab City with respect to motor vehicle registration is the same you would receive in Corner Brook or Grand Falls and St. John's. The one exception is the interprovincial plates. They are only given out of St. John's, so, in essence, it is full service.

MR. E. BYRNE: Okay. I guess the people in Wabush are certainly pleased with that addition to their area. In Driver Examination and Vehicle Inspection, there has been a $325,000 reduction in Salaries. I guess that is a result of the examinations being contracted out, is that correct?

MR. McLEAN: Yes, the driver examinations will reflect that.

MR. E. BYRNE: Has that service been completely contracted out as of today? Is it still in the process? What are the target dates for it?

MR. McLEAN: We are still in the process of working out the whole set-up. Our target date really I think is October 1, to see the service being into private hands. One of the things we are trying to do is ensure that the present driver examiners get the first crack at taking this service over, if they so desire. We had to figure out who is eligible for retirement, some of them want to retire, some of them want to do this, some of them do not want to do it. So we are trying to work all of these things out and we gave ourselves six or seven months to get this done.

MR. E. BYRNE: And the budgetary figure here of $325,000 less in salaries would reflect a saving over six months, not a saving over a full year. Is that correct?

MR. McLEAN: Yes, that is right.

MR. E. BYRNE: Have you had any expressions of interest other than the people who offered the exams, the employees themselves, for the consolidation of this service?

MR. McLEAN: Yes, we are getting some interest from sources other than the driver examiners themselves, in different areas.

MR. E. BYRNE: Is it a service that government plans to tender out once they are along the way or put a request for proposals at some point?

MR. McLEAN: Yes, we will do that. As I said, first we will consider the current examiners. Their opportunity will be the first, then, if they are not interested, we will certainly look at other parties that may be interested or expressing an interest. We will be sitting down and talking to those people.

MR. E. BYRNE: Okay. In subhead 3.1.03, Licence And Registration Processing, just a couple of questions. In Purchased Services, last year there was $156,100 spent, this year budgeted $15,900. Why was there an increase anticipated? Obviously, something happened, because it was not being budgeted for.

MS WAKEHAM: When Treasury Board was inputting its figures, they made a key-in error. There was $150,000 that was supposed to have been put in last year and was supposed to be in Supplies to cover the licences, the stickers and the forms. Anyway, when they made the input this year, they keyed it in inappropriately. The actual figure is supposed to be $18,400, not $156,100. If you look at the category above it, Supplies, which is showing $182,000 going to $266,000, that was supposed to be $320,200. This is a result of a key-in error by the Department of Finance.

MR. E. BYRNE: Okay. On page 44, dealing with subhead 3.2.01, Support Services and Permitting and Inspection Services, there has been an increase in Salaries again of roughly about $100,000 from $809,300 to $908,000. Could you give just a brief explanation in terms of where you are going in that area?

MR. McLEAN: Okay. The additional monies there was for additional staff we certainly required to handle some of the work generated by the anticipated Voisey's Bay smelter operation, the Voisey's Bay centre itself, the offshore oil developments, and there were some other private sector developments that we had to be prepared to deal with on a fairly accelerated basis. Our current staff levels did not permit that, so in order for us not to slow down the project in terms of the permitting and the licensing, and things like that, we had to hire some additional staff to get this in place.

MR. E. BYRNE: So what positions were added, and a description of the positions? What positions would have been added to maintain the level of services?

MR. DWYER: It would be a mechanical engineer and a boiler pressure vessel inspector, and those two positions are primarily for a two-to-three-year period during the stage where the facilities would be constructed and design approvals required.

MR. E. BYRNE: Okay. Thanks.

MS WAKEHAM: I would like to also add that these are temporary personnel, and the increase in the amount of work and the fees associated with the permits will offset the monies that are required for the additional staff.

MR. E. BYRNE: Okay.

Under Purchased Services, there has been an increase of about $72,000. Why the increase, and what would it be for?

MS WAKEHAM: That is a switch-over in terms of the monies for Vital Statistics and the changes in Residential Tenancies that are moved to Mews Place, so that we can provide the service at a regional level.

MR. E. BYRNE: Okay.

The last question I have, Mr. Chair, deals with property, furnishings and equipment directly under Purchased Services. In the 1996-1997 budget it was budgeted for $43,500, actually spent $143,500, and budgeted again this year $43,700. Why the $100,000 increase? Is that a key-in error as well?

MR. McLEAN: No. Last year, Ed, we had to purchase five replacement vehicles.

MR. E. BYRNE: Fair enough.

MR. McLEAN: That is why that was there.

MR. E. BYRNE: Alright.

That is all, Mr. Chair.

CHAIR: Since there are no questions from the government members, Mr. French, if you want to continue you may.

MR. FRENCH: On page 45 there is an increase in Salaries, under Regional Services, Minister, of $203,400. I just want to know why.

MR. McLEAN: Okay, that is line 01 on Regional Services, Bob?

MR. FRENCH: Yes, Salaries.

MR. McLEAN: Okay.

MS WAKEHAM: There have been a number of switches as a result of picking up different activities; $352,700 is associated with the liquor corporation, the transfer of the inspection services from the liquor corporation to government services, to the regional operations. There has also been a decrease as a result of program review reflected in the amount, so this is not a clear amount. This is some activity, some services that have gone in, and some that have been decreased, and this is the net amount.

MR. FRENCH: That is it for me, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIR: Thank you very much, Mr. French.

WITNESS: (Inaudible).

CHAIR: You want more money from C.B.S.?

WITNESS: (Inaudible).

MR. FRENCH: What was that?

CHAIR: We were wondering if you had any money that we could get from Conception Bay South.

I sense there are no more questions, so I will ask the Clerk to call the subheads.

CLERK (J. Noel): Subheads 1.1.01 through 4.1.05.

On motion, subheads 1.1.01 through 4.1.05, carried.

On motion, Department of Government Services and Lands, total heads, without amendment, carried.

MR. FRENCH: Mr. Chairman, if I might, I would like to thank the minister and his staff for taking the time to come here and answer the questions this morning in the manner in which they have done.

We had a fairly lengthy meeting last night but it was a good meeting and the minister was like yourself this morning; they had the staff, and if there was a question the minister could not answer then we certainly got the answer from the staff. I thank you, Mr. Minister, for coming this morning and bringing your staff.

MR. McLEAN: I thank you for the opportunity to appear, but let me say to you that the department is here all year round, too, so if you do have any enquiries at any time throughout the year we are always here to take the enquiries and answer the questions for you.

CHAIR: On behalf of the Committee, Minister, I would like to thank you and your staff for a superb job. It was a pleasure to have you and your staff here. You have done a great job in responding to the questions asked. Thank you very much, and we look forward to meeting you again next year under the same circumstances.

I now ask for a motion to adjourn. Thank you very much.

On motion, Committee adjourned.