The Committee met at 5:30 p.m. in the House of Assembly.

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Wally Andersen, MHA for Torngat Mountains replaces George Sweeney, MHA for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

CHAIR (Mr. Joyce): Order, please!

I will introduce the Committee and then I will ask the minister to introduce his staff and have opening remarks.

We have: Wally Andersen, Tom Osborne, Paul Shelley, Wallace Young, Randy Collins, Bob Mercer, and myself, Eddie Joyce.

The way we usually do it is: the minister will have his opening remarks and then he will introduce his staff. We usually start from one, we will ask so many questions and go on, and everybody will get a chance to ask questions. The only thing that I will ask is: When you are asking a question or the staff when you are responding, that you state your name for Hansard.

Mr. Minister.

MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Mr. Chairperson.

First of all, I will introduce the staff. To my immediate left is Barbara Knight, Deputy Minister; then we have Don Osmond, Assistant Deputy Minister of Works; John Baker, Marine; Keith White, Roads; Gordon Murphy, Human Resources; and John Byrne, Manager of Budgeting.

I guess before we discuss the specifics in the Budget, I would like to give a brief overview of the department.

Works, Services and Transportation is government's largest department with over 2,300 employees, of which 1,500 are permanent and the remainder are temporary and seasonal. Our mission is that we will work in consultation with the people of Newfoundland and Labrador to ensure a safe, efficient and sustainable transportation system and to meet the needs of the public sector for accommodations, public building facilities and support services.

Our lines of business are divided along three areas: The Works branch is responsible for the provision of building and design services, construction and development management, facilities maintenance, accommodation and real property acquisition. Our Services area provides clients with purchasing services, motor vehicle fleet management, water bomber fleet and air ambulance and services, airstrip infrastructure, printing, telephone, Web access, mail services and related policies. Transportation covers the regulation and the provision of the provincial highway system, marine passenger and freight service, port management, transportation policy and other related policies.

To give you an idea of the magnitude of the responsibility that falls within these areas, I would like to share a few departmental statistics. Works, Services and Transportation is responsible for the maintenance of over 800 buildings of which approximately 200 are fairly significant in size. We have almost 2,200 vehicles in the government-wide fleet for which the department manages the distribution and maintenance. This includes ploughs, graders, trucks, cars and All-Terrain Vehicles. Our air services division manages a fleet of ten aircraft including six CL-215 water bombers, a Cessna fire spotter, two Cansos and a King Air 350 air ambulance. We maintain thirteen airstrips in Labrador and nine on the Island. Our Transportation branch maintains over 9,000 kilometres of roads in the Province and manages the construction of all provincial highway projects. The Marine branch operates a sixteen route ferry service to remote parts of the Province. Ten of these services are contracted and six the Province operates directly. The department uses twenty-one vessels on these services of which twelve are owned by government and nine are owned by the contractors. Works, Services and Transportation maintains forty-four ports around the Province.

To cover all of these responsibilities the department has to have a large budget. Our current account budget is $159.2 million and our capital account for 2001/2002 is $185.8 million, of which $37 million are services provided to other departments, for a total budget of over $345 million. In addition to our own budget, we manage multi-million dollar projects for client departments, such as Health and Community Services, Education and Tourism. A couple of examples are the Janeway, The Rooms and most school projects.

I am very pleased that the department has an increase in its provincial capital roads budget this year. An additional $6 million has been allocated in this year's budget bringing our roads program to $22 million. Decisions on specific projects covered under the provincial roads programs will be made in the next several weeks. We also have an additional $6.6 million in our current account to cover off increases in operating costs such as fuel, salt and sand and a number of other items.

Despite a large budget and the increases we have received this year, the department is still in need of additional funding for preventative maintenance on vessels, vehicles, roads and buildings to increase the life cycle of our infrastructure and to address issues surrounding aging infrastructure.

I would like to thank you for the opportunity to provide a brief overview of the department and I now welcome questions from the Committee.

CLERK: Subhead 1.1.01.

CHAIR: Mr. Shelley.

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I am Paul Shelley and I am the critic for Works, Services and Transportation. My two colleagues here tonight will be asking more specifics on the Estimates, but I have decided to come along, ask a few questions, make some comments and take part as much as possible tonight. Of course, considering the road conditions and the storm outside, I guess we will try to condense our questions and thoughts as much as possible.

First of all, congratulations to the new minister. I realize too, after studying this department for the last couple of years, that it is a big department. It is funny, but I guess you will be saying it as much as I have been saying it, how vital transportation is. We always talk about health care, schools, and everything else. The truth is, in this emergency time, without transportation, everything else collapses, not just in emergencies but also our entire economy. I mention that today and I have said it many, many times. We don't put enough stress on how important transportation is to this Province. When we look at, not just our internal road system, but the fact that we are an island, and couple that with a land mass like Labrador, then transportation is crucial and vital to this Province's economy and the systems that it provides for emergency and so on.

Mr. Chair, I have a few concerns that I am just going to raise. One very current one - and I would just like to get a comment on it this evening - is the situation with roads maintenance with respect to the strike right now. I think that is a genuine, constructive question that basically is a contingency. What I understand, with all departments in the strike situation, is that each department of government makes agreements with government, the unions make agreements with government to put a contingency in place, and I understand that the minister has done that. That is the responsibility of the department to make sure we are set for this.

On top of this, coupled with a normal contingency plan we would have, of course, is the time of year, and tonight is a perfect example. I understand we do have a system in place. Now I am just referring to the road situation not the ferry system. I am wondering if the minister could start with some comments on our contingency plan that is in place for the roads system, and, in particular, handling a storm such as this tonight.

MR. BARRETT: Yes. Mr. Chairman.

There is an agreement in place with the union to provide essential employees in each depot, and it is my understanding there is one person in each depot. There are forty-four depots around the Province and they are to provide essential services.

Actually, today there were some areas of the Province where we had some difficulties, in the Clarenville area and the Goobies area, and that had more to do with the difficulty of the trucks crossing over the picket line to pick up salt and to get out. In the normal course of a work stoppage, these people, of course, naturally delay the vehicles from getting in to pick up the salt and to get back out. The co-operation this afternoon was much better and my understanding is that the roads in those particular areas are in very good shape, as we speak right now. Of course, the snow is falling again now, so I do not know if it is snowing in the Clarenville area or not.

We could manage if it is not a major storm. The other thing about it is, if we have a major storm on the East Coast, I guess, we could move employees around to help in some of the areas where we have a heavy snowfall.

MR. SHELLEY: Are the unions being co-operative as far as a situation arising now which could call for more than one person at that depot to be called in, in an emergency situation?

For example, one person mentioned to me this morning, if you have a central town that has a fire department and there is a fire in the community, further out, then one person is not going to be able to clear the road to get to that community with fire services. That is just one example. I guess, we could get a lot of examples. I had another example this morning of a person who was the lone depot person who could not get into the depot.

What I am saying is: Above and beyond what you have put in place for the strike situation, that these particular types of weather conditions are being closely monitored and, if need be, then something is put in place for emergencies that may arise above and beyond a normal weather day. Let's put it that way.

MR. BARRETT: Yes. Well, we would have to go to the union to request them to provide us with some extra essential employees if we had a real problem and a real difficulty. It would be up to the union whether they would provide these people or not.

MR. SHELLEY: The main thing I wanted to ask is: Do you feel confident, with the contingency you have in place, that you can handle an emergency? As everybody said, including the union and yourself, the safety of the people is of utmost importance and the number one priority with everybody. Are you satisfied you can handle those situations?

MR. BARRETT: Well, depending on how much snow we have tonight. If there is not a major storm, I think we can handle it. We have to remember also that we have only one person in each area who is going to be out there plowing and salting the roads. I mean, normally we would have a lot more people involved. The conditions on the roads are not going to be the same as if we had all those employees who are on the work stoppage out. My advice to people is, unless it is a real emergency, do not go on the roads, especially in a snow storm.

MR. SHELLEY: Okay, Mr. Chairman. I will leave that for now.

The second one related to that, just very quickly to get a comment again, is the situation with the provincial ferries. I understand there is an agreement made on those, there is one run per day and so on. There is a list of criteria. Besides emergencies - for example, the Bell Island ferry has a daily routine of people going to and from work. That will not be changed. The criteria met now with the provincial ferries situations, are you going to be monitoring what is happening right now, and maybe some changes to that to accommodate people better than it already is right now?

MR. BARRETT: Well, the essential agreement with regard to the ferries calls for one return trip each day. We cannot make any more than that unless the union agrees to make more. I mean, there was a situation with Bell Island that they wanted the ferry to come to Portugal Cove, return to Bell Island, and would be there in case of emergencies. We requested the union to permit that and they would not permit it.

Today, we have had some problems with the Fogo Island ferry. There is an ice problem down there but we also had some problems with the employees. The essential employees refused to work. We have an agreement in place, but they have broken that agreement. Right now we are working on that. We are trying to get the union to get the employees to cooperate, but we are also checking out in terms of what we can do legally.

MR. SHELLEY: On that note, we also had a problem in Little Bay Islands with the ice. Of course, I think the icebreaker is on the way there now.

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

In the case where there is ice, it would be the same as if the ferry was operating; we will be providing air services to these communities.

MR. SHELLEY: Okay.

Minister, to move on to another issue, the Roads for Rail Agreement of 1998 - I guess it is still referred to by your department as the Roads for Rail Agreement, and the Trunk Agreement was also in that - I have to ask this question again. I think I asked it a couple of years ago. That agreement was in 1988, if I have my years right, and it expires in 2003. It has been asked before by members all over, and maybe even to the minister himself at times, but when all that allocation was done there was a different picture in this Province as far as roads, priority and needs. There is not doubt about that. We all know that has changed. My two questions on the Roads for Rail Agreement are: Has there ever been money moved from the Roads for Rail initial agreement into other road work in the Province? And is the minister considering, especially under the circumstances of some roads that have gone to probably the most deplorable state in the Province - all over the Province, some of them - has there ever been any money moved from Roads for Rail to other roads, on request, and can it be done again?

MR. BARRETT: As you are aware, the Roads for Rail Agreement was signed back in 1988. It set up specific projects on the Trans-Canada Highway and certain roads in the Province. I think what has changed, in some cases, is that probably what was initially planned in terms of some of the projects was changed. I know in my district, for example, there was supposed to have been an overpass put in the Come By Chance-Sunnyside area, but my understanding is that overpass was moved from Come By Chance and put in Glovertown because they thought the priority and the greatest need was in Glovertown.

Yes, it has been changed around somewhat in terms of the different projects, depending on the changes in the conditions of the roads and what was needed at a particular time.

I have always said that Come By Chance was a greater need than Glovertown, but other people would disagree with me.

MR. SHELLEY: There were changes around. On that premise, then, I would say: Has the minister looked at what is left now in the Roads for Rail Agreement, which is another -

MR. BARRETT: What is left now in terms of the Roads for Rail Agreement is all committed to finish up the projects that we have started. It has been committed.

MR. SHELLEY: Isn't there money in there still for ones that have not begun yet?

MR. BARRETT: Oh, yes.

MR. SHELLEY: Isn't it still possible, then, that some of those agreements could be -

MR. BARRETT: You are talking about if we could switch -

MR. SHELLEY: Sure.

MR. BARRETT: - money to the Baie Verte Peninsula. I do not think we can do that right now because we have committed the money to do designated projects in other areas.

MR. SHELLEY: Well, I did not say the Baie Verte Peninsula but I will use it as an example.

MR. BARRETT: Let's say the La Scie highway, for example.

MR. SHELLEY: Yes. I could have used any part of the Province as an example, but the federal MP of the area had made the same suggestion and told us publicly that it could be done, so I was following an MP who said -

MR. BARRETT: The problem is, I say to the hon. member, we have only a couple of years left in that, and right now we are in the process of starting to negotiate with Ottawa for a new agreement. I would prefer that we would address some of the areas that you are talking about, and I do have some areas in my own district that are similar in terms of your district and all other districts around the Province, that when the next agreement is signed there may be a different set of roads and a different set of priorities. I think that is the kind of planning we should do for the next agreement.

MR. SHELLEY: Okay. Like I said, as I speak here tonight, I am talking in general about the Province but I will use my district or other districts as examples as the night goes on.

On the Labrador Initiative, on the phases and where it is at right now, Minister, is the department satisfied with the rate at which we are moving? Can you make some comments on that, and where you see it proceeding now?

MR. BARRETT: Up to this point, in terms of the Labrador Initiative, all the contracts and the work is on target and is on budget. We are quite pleased with the work that is being done in Labrador; and, of course, the major thing in terms of Labrador right now is the money. We do not have the money to finish Phase 3 of the highway from Cartwright to Goose Bay, and that will be part of our negotiations also with Ottawa.

MR. SHELLEY: This is the main thing that I want to talk about tonight, and that is the provincial roads program for the Province as a whole. First of all come some general things, because I have heard a couple of different ones. If I cannot be given it exactly tonight, I would ask that it be provided - it should be available - and that is the total number of kilometres of unpaved roads on the Island portion of the Province, not counting Labrador, because I know how many kilometres for the new initiative and so on. I have been told at different times, different amounts. The last I heard was approximately 900 kilometres. The department should have that. If I cannot get it exactly, tonight, I would like to have it. I think we should know it. It is a firm statistic; it is not like we are guessing. How many kilometres of unpaved provincial roads are there in the Province?

MR. BARRETT: It is less than 900, but more than 600.

MR. SHELLEY: What did you say? Less than 900?

MR. BARRETT: Less than 900, but more than 600.

MR. SHELLEY: Minister, could I make this request tonight? That is a firm statistic, like I said. Could I ask to get an exact amount later? I do not have to have it tonight. There should be something in the department. To tell you the truth, why I am asking, I have heard over 900 - I am not saying from your officials here tonight - but then I have heard that it was well over that, it was well over 1,000, and then somebody else said, no, it is less than 900. I am getting mixed numbers, and I would just like to ask that question here tonight. I think that is a fair question.

MR. BARRETT: There is no doubt about it. Like I say, I am trying to be brief because I do not think we want to be here very long. I could talk at some length. There are a lot of roads that are gravel roads in the Province, and there are a lot of roads that were paved back in the early seventies that are worse than gravel roads. We have situations in Labrador, in Norman Bay, for example - it only came to my attention a couple of weeks ago - where we do not even have a road in the community. It reminds me of when I grew up on Woody Island; we did not have a road in the community. There was sort of a path through the woods where you walked to school, and in the spring of the year you had to wear what we called unemployment boots, the green ones that came up to your knees, because of the water and mud and everything else, and you couldn't ride a bike. We have the same kind of situation going on in Norman Bay. The kids down there cannot even ride their bikes to school, and we are talking about putting an east-west arterial road in St. John's. I think we have to address some of these issues in some of these communities in Newfoundland and Labrador before we start thinking about putting another east-west arterial road in St. John's.

MR. SHELLEY: Well, Minister, there is nobody more glad to hear you say that than me, I will tell you that, because I have said it for years. We will not go back to the Ring Road and all that because we have debated that and gone through it.

MR. BARRETT: When I got elected in 1996, when I took over the Fortune Bay part of the district, I had communities that did not have pavement within their communities. The women could not put their clothes out in the summertime and they could not even barbecue in their back garden, which most of us have the privilege to do, and take it for granted that we can do it, and these people could not even hang their clothes out or barbecue. Sometimes we do a lot of complaining about the fact that we have a few potholes or a few bumps in the road, but in a lot of these communities - and I was in Jamestown and Winter Brook a couple of Saturdays ago and it was the same way. The people in these communities do not even have paved roads in their communities, let alone the main road to their community being paved.

MR. SHELLEY: My next question with that statistic again, the provincial roads, I understand that not all 900 kilometres are - you know, they might be just small roads going out to one or two houses.

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

MR. SHELLEY: I realize that. My second question is: Does the department have the statistics on the age of the pavement in the Province?

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

MR. SHELLEY: I would like to have a report on that, if I could.

MR. BARRETT: We have a profile on the conditions of all of the roads, how many years, and the pavement, for every road in the Province.

MR. SHELLEY: Could I request to see that? Could I have a copy of that, Minister, general information that I could have?

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

MR. SHELLEY: I am just going to get to this point and finish with it. Basically, it is nothing that I have not said before. With the combination of the old roads in this Province, in rural Newfoundland, and the unpaved roads in bigger communities, the demand for - I am not talking about paths going off somewhere, but main roads in the communities that still have quite a number of people in them - I do not know if you can put it down as urgent, but if it is anything like in my district and your district and The Straits & White Bay North - I was up there, and in different districts.

MR. BARRETT: St. John's South, right?

MR. SHELLEY: Pardon?

MR. BARRETT: St. John's South.

MR. T. OSBORNE: You should see some of the roads in St. John's South.

MR. SHELLEY: Wherever it is, provincial roads, the demand must be so great.

I have two questions. What is the total cost of demand for roads such as those: old pavement and gravel roads? What would be an estimated demand? We will answer that question first, and then I will get to the second part.

MR. BARRETT: Excluding the work that needs to be done in Labrador in terms of construction, the road in terms of Phase 3, but to bring our roads up to a standard in Labrador, the roads that are already in Labrador and on the Island, we would be looking at roughly $198 million to bring them up to bring them up to any kind of a reasonable standard.

MR. SHELLEY: Around $200 million is my guess.

MR. BARRETT: My boss behind me here is telling me differently.

Pardon?

WITNESS: (Inaudible).

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

MR. SHELLEY: Yes. So, I was estimating about $200 million. That is what I had estimated from before. That is old pavement and gravel roads that needs to be now. That is what you have a demand for.

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

MR. SHELLEY: Now, minister when it comes to -

MR. BARRETT: I will give you an example: to bring the roads up to a respectable standard in my district alone would cost around $24.4. million.

MR. SHELLEY: So, you would pretty well use the budget.

MR. BARRETT: Pardon?

MR. SHELLEY: You could pretty well use the budget, as I could and as a number of other rural districts could.

MR. BARRETT: We will make a decision on that in the next couple of weeks.

MR. SHELLEY: If it all goes in your district, it could be a bit rough.

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

MR. SHELLEY: Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the minister, too, on the ratings: I know you have talked to the members and you have talked to me and you have talked to other members who are going to have road problems and so on, and that is certainly a good practice, but also you have the depots in your department and your people around the Province who service these roads all the time. When it comes to rating these roads - I do not mean funding for this year but basic rating, and then have them in the library say that these are deplorable and these are deplorable, how bad they are - is there a rating system that you use within your department, aside from what you ask your MHAs about and everything?

MR. BARRETT: Yes, there is a rating system in terms of the roads and how bad the roads are. The problem is that just about every district in the Province does have roads that need to be done. I guess, as a department, you look at not only the conditions of the roads but you also realize that, in the case of Newfoundland, construction jobs are also very, very important to the economy, so you not only try to improve the road situation but you also try to spread the money around the Province to provide the economic activity that is needed in a lot of communities in Newfoundland.

MR. SHELLEY: I understand that.

MR. BARRETT: There are two factors actually: the roads themselves, and also I think we have to take into consideration that this department, in terms of its buildings, in terms of its roads and all the other services that provide in Newfoundland, we are also a major employer and provide a lot of economic activity throughout the Province. You have to take that into consideration as well.

MR. SHELLEY: It is twofold.

One last question on the roads situation. With the additional money this year, the $6 million additional, is that directly into provincial roads, not with engineering, not with anything? Is it going to go into road construction? That would make it - if I am guessing right, and I am not guessing, if I am estimating right - approximately $18 million this year towards provincial roads construction.

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

MR. SHELLEY: Those are my numbers, from the figures.

MR. BARRETT: Yes, there is an extra $6 million for road construction. In addition to that, this year we went, in the budget, looking for $2 million to do emergency culverts and small bridges that need to be done throughout the Province. There will also be $2 million out of the fund that will be designated to do these emergency culverts and bridges.

MR. SHELLEY: That is aside from the $18 million on provincial road construction?

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

MR. SHELLEY: So that is $20 million?

MR. BARRETT: Yes. In addition to that, we have $2 million as the provincial contribution for the Long Island causeway.

MR. SHELLEY: My first suggestion is to take your $10 million contingency fund you have in your budget, which is for emergencies, use it, and add it to your $18 million to make it $28 million, but I don't think that is going to happen.

MR. BARRETT: I would appreciate every bit of support I can. You would have no argument from me.

MR. SHELLEY: You certainly need it, because the department needs it. I can go on about that all night.

There is one last question, I think, that needs to be asked. Port aux Basques and the new ferry, I want to comment on that, and also a comment in the news recently about a private enterprise talking about a speed ferry for the Port aux Basques run. Have you been contacted about that? What comments can you offer us on that situation?

MR. BARRETT: My understanding is: I met with Mr. Sid Hynes shortly after I became minister. He gave me a report and an update on Port aux Basques. There won't be a fast ferry this year. I guess any talks of privatization are pure speculation. There is nothing against some individual, if they wanted to, I guess, to invest their money and put a private crossing from Port aux Basques to North Sydney, there is nothing to say now that the person could not do it, if somebody wanted to finance putting a ferry on, that would compete with Marine Atlantic.

MR. SHELLEY: Mr. Chairman, thank you for the time. I have to leave now, but my colleagues will ask some specifics.

Thank you, Minister.

CHAIR: Thank you.

All the best, Mr. Shelley.

Mr. Osborne.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I have just a couple of questions for the minister. I realize it is a St. John's district, but you should see some of the roads in my district. It is not your responsibility, I know that.

MR. SHELLEY: Talk to Andy Wells.

MR. BARRETT: Call Andy.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Yes. That is part of the concern, I guess, the fact that it is a city responsibility.

Just a quick story: one road in my district, actually, which is a dirt road, and the houses there do not have water and sewer, sidewalks and whatever, this past winter the road was impassable for a couple of weeks. Through fighting with the city to try to get the road cleared, we finally managed to get it cleared because an ambulance needed to get up there. They sent a grader up and the grader tipped over. Things in some parts of the city are not always pavement, asphalt and concrete.

I have a couple of general questions before I get into the Estimates. On the salt sheds throughout the Province, and the salt storage areas, I know that a couple of the salt storage areas are located near water supplies. Are there any plans in the future to have those moved, or what is going to happen with those?

MR. BARRETT: We have a continuous program within the department to upgrade and do new salt sheds. We did have an allocation last year in our budget for that, which was $300,000, because they need to be updated, refurbished and redone all the time because of our difficult winter that we have had, and we had to take the $300,000 that we had allocated to buy extra salt. Instead of the salt sheds, we had to buy the extra salt.

If there are some salt sheds that you suggest are dangerously close to water lines, they would have been approved by the Department of Environment, so I don't know why - if you can give me some more specifics, we can have it checked into. If it is a threat to water supplies and the Department of Environment tells us we are not supposed to have them there, then under the law of the land we would have no other choice but move them.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Okay. I can certainly pass on one to you later. I do not know how much it is affecting the area, but I know when I traveled across the Province a month or so ago, that was one of the issues. Actually, I received a letter from the municipality talking about how close the salt supply was to their water shed, and the fact that they had some concerns.

In talking about the salt budget, I know that there are other provinces that are using other chemicals rather than salt. While they may not necessarily work here in every case, I think it is either Nova Scotia or New Brunswick; I cannot recall for sure, but it is one of those two provinces, that are actually using a water and salt - it is a brine mixture that they spray on the street. In speaking with that province, they have found that has been quite successful and far less costly. Have you looked into doing that, or taking the same measure here?

MR. BARRETT: Keith White, who is the Assistant Deputy Minister for Roads, would probably be able to answer that question. It is pretty technical. I have not gotten that far yet.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Okay.

MR. WHITE: The whole issue of salt is being addressed with Environment Canada. Salt, we are being told, anyway, is going to be listed as a toxic substance. Now last August, I think, there was an announcement made by Environment Canada that it was being looked at very seriously. We are being told, anyway, that it is going to be listed as a toxic substance. Now, the environmentalists contend that it is toxic to the environment; it is not toxic to human beings.

The short and long of it is that we are going to have the enter into a fairly extensive process with other provinces and municipalities and Environment Canada to tighten up the processes, procedures, application rates, equipment utilization, the whole nine yards of the winter salt usage issue. It is going to be a long process, it is going to require additional funding, but we feel, at the end of the day, usage will be reduced and the environmental considerations will be factored as much as possible into any decision that is made.

MR. T. OSBORNE: I guess if it is deemed to be a toxic substance then the issue of the brine that they use is probably going to be discontinued as well.

MR. WHITE: No, not necessarily, because it is efficiency. What you are trying to do is cut the consumption while at the same time maintaining or increasing efficiency. Brine is one. There is a process that is called pre-wetting, where essentially what you do is have brine and coarse salt. Just with the coarse salt there is a fair amount of bounce, so the stuff hits the asphalt and a lot of it, or a certain percentage, will bounce to the side of the road. You lose the effectiveness, but it is there in the environment.

There are a lot of issues like that: new equipment, brine, pre-wetting, better weather forecasting, anti-icing as opposed to de-icing. Anti-icing is getting out first with the layer of salt, so that when you get the snow it does not stick to the asphalt surface. If it does, you will need extra salt to break the bond between the asphalt and the ice. It is a science. It is becoming a science. We have started at it and it is going to be a continuing process for several years. During that period of time, things such as salt shed locations will be factored in, as well as usage, handling, equipment, the whole nine yards.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Have you had any dealings with the other Atlantic Provinces in the use of brine? I know they have found it very cost-effective. If so, I guess my question is: Why haven't we started to use that process here?

MR. WHITE: In Canada, anyway, it is really in its infancy experimental stage. We are dealing through all provinces and major municipalities on a committee that is addressing this whole issue with Environment Canada. The product has not been designated toxic yet, but we feel it is coming shortly. We, with other provinces, are trying to be proactive to develop a management plan that Environment Canada will participate in and, at the end of the day, will be satisfied, subject to, we feel, maybe audits and things of this nature, that we are doing our work while, at the same time, everybody acknowledges that you cannot ban salt in Canada. We depend on it. The transportation system needs it, and the alternative products are just too expensive, so salt has to continue to be used. The aim right now is to tighten up on the whole, from start to finish, and improve the equipment that is used, and these sorts of issues will be looked at and dealt with.

MR. T. OSBORNE: I thank you for the answers.

I have only a couple of questions regarding the Estimates and I will start off with the Minister's Office, 1.1.01., item 03. Last year, the transportation component was budgeted at $41,700 and there was $62,000 spent. I realize that we are not dealing with huge amounts of money here, but I was just wondering what the additional expenditure was for.

MR. BARRETT: The previous ministers who were in the department were St. John's members, so there was extra travel for the ministers' assistants. If the minister is from out of town, and in this case was from the West Coast, there is a fair amount of expense that would be directly related to the ministers' assistants in terms of traveling. That is why there was an increase in that fund for last year. That is why we have gone back to our regular budget of $41,700; because, in my case, there would not be the same kind of expenses as somebody from the West Coast.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Your assistant, then, is from your area?

MR. BARRETT: The assistant is, but you would have the expense of airfare travel.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Okay.

MR. BARRETT: I may be back here next year saying differently, that we have to go for an increase.

WITNESS: Or you are replaced as minister.

MR. BARRETT: Or I may be replaced as minister, yes.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Under 1.2.02., Administrative Support, General Administration, again under section 03., there is a fairly significant increase in the transportation budget for this year as compared to last year.

MR. BARRETT: Yes. Some of that would be extra money for relocation expenses, air services, and temporary boarding and lodging of people for air services.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Would that be the relocation of the government employees that was announced, then?

MR. BARRETT: Yes. It would be for temporary board and lodging for some of them, and there has to be some training and that sort of thing take place.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Okay. I guess each department, then, would budget into their own departments the cost of the relocation of employees within that department?

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Under 06., Purchased Services.

MR. BARRETT: There is an allocation there for training of new staff. We have a fair number of new staff in air services and we have to do some training there. We would be purchasing the training for that.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Okay.

Subhead 1.2.03., Policy Development.

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Section 05., Professional Services, there is a jump there of $3,800 spent last year to $17,500 this year.

MR. BARRETT: That is additional funding for consultant studies.

MR. T. OSBORNE: What would the purpose of the consultant studies be?

MR. MURPHY: These would be for professional studies on highway infrastructure associated with the general highways infrastructure across the Province.

MR. T. OSBORNE: New highway construction or bypass road constructions?

MR. MURPHY: It may or may not. We have to have consultants do some pre-engineering studies, I guess, some initial studies to see what needs to be done in various areas. We have to get professional consultants to do that.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Okay, thank you.

Under subhead 2.1.01., Road Maintenance, 04., Supplies.

MR. BARRETT: Section 04., office supplies?

MR. T. OSBORNE: Yes. There is a jump there of what was budgeted last year, $180,300 to $222,900.

MR. BARRETT: That would be just normal increases in office supplies, that is all, nothing major.

MR. T. OSBORNE: That is 20 per cent of the budget, though. Are you anticipating using 20 per cent more supplies this year?

MR. BARRETT: We revised it. Last year it was $180,300 and this year we spent $186,000. There may be increased costs for photocopiers and that sort of thing. Some of that stuff was contracts that were entered into four or five years ago and now there are new contracts coming up so the cost would be going up. When you look at that, that is a lot of it, in terms of equipment.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Subhead 2.1.03.06., Purchased Services. There is $500,000 over the revised budget last year and the Estimates this year.

MR. BARRETT: We have new roads in Labrador, and this will be our first summer for summer maintenance of these roads, grading and all that sort of stuff. That is why there is a substantial increase there, new roads added to the inventory in Labrador.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Okay, so that should be a fairly steady number from -

MR. BARRETT: Yes. If you want to do a flip of that, in 2.1.04.06., for example, Snow and Ice Control, for the same reason there is an increase, because of the Trans-Labrador Highway.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Yes, okay.

Under 2.2.02., Technical Support Services, again under 06., Purchased Services, it is the same amount budgeted this year as last year, but I was just wondering why there would be a need for that amount if there was $200,000 less actually spent last year?

MR. BARRETT: Last year our prices came in for the insurance on our buildings substantially lower than we had anticipated and lower than in other years. This year we really do not know what the costs are going to be so we would have included the same amount in our budget that has been the norm, but we got a real good rate last year on our insurance on our buildings. Our insurance went really down. It is not very often that is going to happen.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Why would it not be down again this year?

MR. BARRETT: We do not know. If it is the same price then there will be a saving, and then we may be able to do the road in Norman Bay. If we save the $100,000 then we will transfer the money to Norman Bay.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Or give Andy some money to do a couple of the roads in Shea Heights and Blackhead area.

MR. BARRETT: Okay. I am pretty sure if we have a winter like we did last winter, and if we save $100,000 in insurance, we will need it for salt and sand.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Okay.

Under 2.2.04., Rentals, 03., Transportation and Communications, again there is a fairly significant jump there in the estimate this year, almost $140,000.

MR. BARRETT: We are responsible for moving the departments under the relocation, and that would be why there would be an increase there. We are the movers and shippers, remember, in my outline of the role of the department? We do everything around here except health care and education. If you were going to move office tomorrow, for example, if your office had to be moved over to the West Block, our department would move you.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Or we might have to move you back to the East Block.

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

MR. T. OSBORNE: When you move us to the West Block.

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

MR. T. OSBORNE: We will hope you are still here, Percy.

MR. BARRETT: That is a debate for another time.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Under 2.2.05., Salt Storage Sheds, 06., Purchased Services, I am just wondering why the allocation last year wasn't spent.

MR. BARRETT: The allocation was spent and we did not use it for salt sheds. I think I elaborated on that earlier.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Oh, yes, you did. Okay.

MR. BARRETT: It was transferred from there to the purchase of salt, so it did not indicate here in the revised because we did not spend it for that specific purpose; but we had to go to Treasury Board to get a special warrant done to transfer the money to salt the roads and sand the roads, and lease extra equipment or what have you to plough the roads the winter.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Under 2.3.02., Maintenance of Equipment, 03., Transportation and Communications, last year there was an increase of $62,000.

MR. BARRETT: Which one is that?

MR. T. OSBORNE: Under section 03., Transportation and Communications.

MR. BARRETT: Okay, that is 03.?

MR. T. OSBORNE: Yes.

MR. BARRETT: There were extra freight costs on part deliveries. As you know, we also had a tremendous increase in our budget in terms of snow clearing and all that sort of thing. Naturally, there would have been more breakdown of equipment and that sort of thing, so we would have to get more parts delivered. The freight costs for the parts was the reason for the increase.

MR. T. OSBORNE: The next set of questions would be under subhead 3.2.03., again under Transportation and Communications, there is a significant jump in what was spent last year, and the Estimates this year are $60,000 higher than what was budgeted last year.

MR. BARRETT: Which one is that?

MR. T. OSBORNE: Under section 03., Transportation and Communications.

MR. BARRETT: That was allocated as $75,000, but that is a very floating thing because the benefits to our employees in terms of travel and accommodations, if they are a certain distance away from headquarters, their headquarters may be in Clarenville, Burin or -

MR. T. OSBORNE: I think we are on the wrong - you are up on 3.2.02., are you?

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

MR. T. OSBORNE: No, I am on 3.2.03.

MR. BARRETT: Subhead 3.2.03.? Okay. Which account?

MR. T. OSBORNE: It is Transportation and Communications still.

MR. BARRETT: That would be transportation and accommodation for employees like our engineering crews. If they are only a certain distance away from headquarters they do not get reimbursed, but if they are a great distance away they get reimbursed. It depends on, when we announce the provincial roads program, where the projects are around the Province. Sometimes they are close to headquarters and we do not incur a great cost, but if they are a far distance away from headquarters then we have to pay for their meal allowance and so on.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Why would there be such a jump from $90,000 to $235,700 last year, then? I presume you would have known up front?

MR. BARRETT: We had a lot of Labrador highway projects.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Okay, but that would have been budgeted in last year's budget, would it?

MR. BARRETT: Not necessarily. You just give it a ballpark figure. We did have a lot more road construction in, not remote areas but away from the headquarters more than other years.

For example, we have an extra increase in our provincial roads program, so therefore we would anticipate there will be extra expenses.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Under 05., Professional Services, there is a pretty steep jump from $5,000 to $150,000. There is nothing at all budgeted this year. What would that allocation have been for?

MR. WHITE: That covers consultants. I cannot recall exactly where, this year, specific instances that we utilized consultants with (inaudible). We use them in all our different programs, but that is the category we charge the consultants off to. Again, when you budget at the beginning of the year it is hard to know what kind of services you are going to require as you go through a capital construction program. It could be specialized bridge analysis or soil analysis. We have our own bridge engineers, but we are not heavy into the soil analysis part of it. We use consultants for that. We use consultants for some traffic studies and environmental studies.

MR. T. OSBORNE: There is a section there, though, that I read earlier for soil analysis. This particular section would not deal with soil analysis.

MR. WHITE: That refers to our soils lab group, our materials engineering group. I am speaking of the sub-soil analysis, drilling, taking of cores, doing a lot of laboratory work on the bearing capacities of the soils and these sorts of things. We do not handle any of that ourselves. We contract that out to consultants. This is the type of stuff, environmental assessment work, we do not do a lot of ourselves. This is the category where it would be charged. When you enter into a capital program, it is hard to predict what kind of technical issues are going to arise that we need consultants to give us advice on.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Under section 06., Purchased Services, there is an increase of $8 million. What would that be for, a road or -

MR. BARRETT: That is under the provincial roads program and it went over budget because we had a bridge on the West Coast that got damaged and we had to do some work with it. That is why it went over.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Okay, so that work is going to be done this year?

MR. BARRETT: No, it was done last year but we had to -

MR. T. OSBORNE: Okay, there is an $8 million increase in this year's budget, though.

MR. BARRETT: Yes, that is the provincial roads program. That is the increase, I told you, of $2 million in terms of culverts and the $6 million extra over and above last year. That is where it would show the -

MR. T. OSBORNE: That is the program that Paul was speaking to you on earlier, the $6 million extra for roads?

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Okay.

Under 10., Grants and Subsidies, $1.5 million.

MR. BARRETT: There was $300,000 allocated. That was a special program that we had, a brush cutting program that we put people to work to clear away the brush from the sides of the highways. It was a program that came in after the original budget.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Okay.

I have one other question. I know that there are others here who would like to partake in the actual Estimates questions. Where in the budget would the allocation be for the increased cost of fuel this year over last year?

MR. BARRETT: That would be in the supplies.

WITNESS: Under 2.2.03.

MR. BARRETT: Under 2.2.03.06.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Purchased Services?

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

MR. T. OSBORNE: There is a decrease there, though, from last year to this year.

MR. BARRETT: Yes, but last year we budgeted $19,869,000 but we went up to $21,379,000, and this year the expenditure is increased over last year because it is at $20,359,800. We are sort of expecting not so bad a winter next winter as we had this winter.

MR. T. OSBORNE: You are expecting fuel prices to go down?

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

MR. T. OSBORNE: They are still relatively high, though, compared to twelve or fourteen months ago, so wouldn't it be -

MR. BARRETT: The most we can do with this, I say to the hon. member, when we are talking about increases in fuel prices, the most we can do is to guess at it because nobody can predict what is going to happen.

MR. T. OSBORNE: I guess that is the reason for my question. I searched through to try and find where the increase would be for fuel, and I would have anticipated seeing a jump in this year's budget for the anticipated fuel cost, unless government knows something that we do not and fuel prices are going to drop.

MR. BARRETT: We do not have that crystal ball. I can assure you, if we did, we would make money. We probably would not be in this business. We will just have to see. It is probably not enough; I do not know.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Pardon me?

MR. BARRETT: I said that we will have to see at the end of the year if it was enough or not. There is an increase.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Obviously, you have a lot of machines in your department that are on the road so one would anticipate, between the buildings and the machines and so on, that there would have been a jump in the budget.

MR. BARRETT: Yes. The figure here is just the heating for our buildings. It does not include the gasoline for our vehicles, and that sort of thing.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Where would that come in?

MR. BARRETT: That is under the transportation category, 2.3.02.

MR. T. OSBORNE: I am sorry. What was that number?

MR. BARRETT: Maintenance of Equipment.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Yes, what heading are you?

MR. BARRETT: Actually, we are budgeting slightly higher than we did last year.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Under 2.3.02.04.?

CHAIR: Under 2.3.02.04.

MR. BARRETT: Yes, 2.3.02.04., Supplies.

Last year we spent $10 million and we were budgeted $8 million.

MR. T. OSBORNE: There is a drop again.

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

MR. T. OSBORNE: I do not see the logic, if gas prices are up.

MR. BARRETT: If we have a less severe winter, we will not use as much fuel. That is not only in terms of fuel; that is other supplies in terms of parts. For example, we purchased new vehicles for the RNC. They have a new fleet, so we do not expect so many repairs either. There are some new vehicles in the fleet, and that sort of stuff. All of this is calculated not only in terms of the fuel costs. We anticipate there will probably be some savings because the RNC were given $600,000 to buy new police vehicles, so the maintenance on them mostly will be warranty this year.

MR. T. OSBORNE: So that would give them what, fifteen to twenty new vehicles?

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

MR. T. OSBORNE: How many? Do you know offhand?

MR. BARRETT: More than fifteen or twenty. It was $600,000.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Six hundred thousand.

MR. BARRETT: Yes. You are talking about thirty vehicles, probably. They are only small cars, unless they are souped-up jobs.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Jeepers, I would say it must be at least $30,000 for a police vehicle.

MR. BARRETT: Okay, so you would get twenty new vehicles.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Yes.

MR. BARRETT: That is just one example. There are other factors. It is the total budget for gasoline and all the other things.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you.

CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Osborne.

Mr. Young.

MR. YOUNG: Thank you.

Under 3.2.04., Highways - Transportation Initiative, 04., Supplies.

MR. BARRETT: Under three what?

MR. YOUNG: Under 3.2.04.04., Supplies.

MR. BARRETT: Transportation Initiative?

MR. YOUNG: Right.

MR. BARRETT: Which one?

MR. YOUNG: Supplies, 04.

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

The question?

MR. YOUNG: There was an increase there.

MR. BARRETT: The revised increase?

MR. YOUNG: Right.

MR. BARRETT: Well, with most of these we just estimate what the program is going to cost, because most of that is tendered in terms of the highways project - the federal government transportation initiatives. All of these are approximate. When the tenders come in, then there will be fixed prices. So that sort of fluctuates.

MR. YOUNG: Okay, thanks.

MR. BARRETT: You notice that in Purchased Services we budgeted for $29,549,500, but the actual cost was $28,400,000. It went down on one and up on another one.

MR. YOUNG: Fine.

Under Regional Roads, Transportation and Communications, there again it was -

MR. BARRETT: Again, that would be the same explanation I gave the hon. member for St. John's South. These roads were probably a great distance away from the headquarters. Sometimes, because of collective agreements and seniority, you have to take people from some area and put them in the other and then we have to pay for their accommodations and travel.

MR. YOUNG: Subhead 3.3.01.

MR. BARRETT: Subhead 3.3.01.

MR. YOUNG: Professional Services.

MR. BARRETT: Pardon?

MR. YOUNG: Professional Services.

MR. BARRETT: Subhead 3.3.01., Purchased Services?

WITNESS: Professional Services, 05.

MR. YOUNG: Professional Services.

MR. BARRETT: That would have been under our buildings capital program. Don, I don't know if you have the details on that one.

MR. OSMOND: To just background a little bit on the works branch, virtually everything is contracted out as far as professional design, management, and things of that nature are concerned, so it is a number that can vary considerably, depending upon the amount of construction activity that might be taking place. Certainly last year was a significant year, so that is why that is up.

MR. YOUNG: The Purchased Services you had estimated for this year is considerably different than last year.

MR. BARRETT: Yes, because there is a lot of capital work to be done this year. That was announced in the Budget.

MR. OSMOND: Yes, that is correct; it is a timing thing. The design happens first, of course, and then the construction will often follow the following year.

MR. BARRETT: For example, in that budget, there was a new chronic care facility announced for Clarenville. The Professional Services would come at this stage of the program. There are some others that we are going ahead with, the facility in Grand Bank and others.

MR. YOUNG: I assume 3.3.02.05., would be -

MR. BARRETT: Number 05., Professional Services.

MR. YOUNG: Yes, that was an increase.

MR. BARRETT: Yes, that is because of the increase in the capital program.

MR. YOUNG: Under subhead 4.2.01., Marine Operations, there was an increase in Salaries.

MR. BARRETT: Subhead 4.2.01.? In which account centre?

MR. YOUNG: Marine Operations.

MR. BARRETT: Subhead 4.2.01.01., Salaries?

MR. YOUNG: Right.

MR. BARRETT: The revised was up. There was additional operating funding for Hull 100 and increased payments for overtime, bonus and banked hours for the collective agreement. Sometimes there is a carry-over for employees in terms of the collective agreement.

MR. YOUNG: That is it. That is all I wanted to go through.

CHAIR: Mr. Collins.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you very much.

I don't have a lot of questions; most of them have been covered off. All of the great discrepancies or disparities in the amounts that were budgeted last year revised to the Estimates this year, most of them have been covered off.

I do have a couple of questions that I would like to ask, the first one being on subhead 2.2.02. It is just for my own understanding. In fact, Technical Support Services states, "Appropriations provide for technical support in the areas of special engineering projects..." I am wondering about occupational health and safety. I am just wondering what that specifically applies to, the occupational health and safety, under the Technical Support Services?

MR. BARRETT: Are you talking about Purchased Services?

MR. COLLINS: I am talking on the heading.

MR. BARRETT: Okay.

That would be Technical Support Services. We would have had -

MR. COLLINS: No, for the occupational health and safety part of it. I am just wondering how that fits into it.

MR. BARRETT: Don can probably answer that.

MR. OSMOND: The sort of things that we would be looking at there would be air quality, for example, and there has been significant emphasis on that in the past couple of years. Also brought into that would be fire safety and bringing things up to current fire safety code. That would be the major emphasis. The department also, in a safety program kind of way if you will, has put considerable effort into ensuring that our own activities are done in a safe manner by having our own occupational health and safety people on staff who will be monitoring our activities, our projects, our construction and so forth, to ensure that proper OHS practices are being adhered to in the work that we carry out.

MR. COLLINS: That would be just that area, in keeping up with new standards or things put into your department that need to meet the codes of the occupational health and safety legislation, or changes?

MR. OSMOND: Yes, that is generally correct.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you.

Under 3.2.03., Improvement and Construction - Provincial Roads, the question was raised by one of the other members and I did not fully get the answer. Under 03., Transportation and Communications, with a budget of $90,000 to a revised $235,700 and an estimate for this year for $150,000, I did not get the answer as to what necessitated the increase from $90,000 to $235,700.

MR. BARRETT: The explanation I gave was: It was because it had to deal with the benefits, travel allowances of employees, and it depended on what projects were allocated and the distance they were away from their headquarters.

MR. COLLINS: Okay.

Under Salaries, you have $30,000.

MR. BARRETT: The engineering, for example, is covered. The salaries would be covered under other parts of the account centres.

MR. COLLINS: Okay.

MR. BARRETT: Here is the actual direct cost of doing those road projects under the capital program. The salaries would be included in another section.

MR. COLLINS: Subhead 3.2.06.03., Trans-Labrador Highway, Transportation and Communications, it went from $2.2 million to $2.65 million and an estimate this year for $1.4 million.

MR. BARRETT: Again, that would be depending upon the program. There is a smaller program this year. As you notice, the capital is down. Last year we spent $50 million on the capital program, doing the Trans-Labrador Highway, and this year it is down to $38 million. That would reflect, because that is transportation of people into the project itself, the actual administration of the construction of the highway in Labrador.

MR. COLLINS: The actual administration cost for the construction that took place last year was $2.65 million?

MR. BARRETT: Yes, the Transportation and Communications.

MR. COLLINS: Purchased Services was budgeted at $51,580,000, revised to $50,750,000 and a estimate for 2001-2002 of $38,900,000.

MR. BARRETT: That would be based on contracts that we already have let for the Trans-Labrador Highway, and we have some carry-over projects from last year. There are some carry- over projects and new projects. We have a list of them, if the hon. member wants to see them.

MR. COLLINS: Under the Trans-Labrador Highway, or I guess more specifically the Labrador Transportation Initiative Fund, could the minister tell us how much money is remaining in that fund today?

MR. BARRETT: I don't have the figure offhand right now, but we could get it for you.

MR. COLLINS: Again on that topic, I wonder if the minister is aware of whether or not the Initiative Fund, when it was announced, the $340 million or $360 million -

MR. BARRETT: It was $360 million.

MR. COLLINS: The $360 million - whether or not the interest from that monies was kept separate to go towards Phase 3 of the Labrador Highway.

MR. BARRETT: Yes, it goes back into the fund.

MR. COLLINS: Does it go back into the fund or is it kept separate for Phase 3?

MR. BARRETT: No, it goes back into the fund.

MR. COLLINS: So it is not kept separate for that section?

MR. BARRETT: No. We might very well make the decision to do that Phase 3, but right now it is not specifically earmarked for Phase 3.

MR. COLLINS: Okay.

Under 4.3.03., Aircraft Replacement, the new King Air, I do not have a question on it. I just want to tell the minister that was something that was much needed in last year's budget, and that aircraft is performing a vital service to people in Labrador. I can tell you, from the people I have talked to, it is certainly appreciated that a new aircraft was found. The old one served the people quite well, and I am sure the new one will be much more accurate - I do not know about much more accurate - but she certainly will be used a great deal. It was pretty important to the people who live in Labrador; particularly, I know, in the area where I live, in Labrador West. That was a good expenditure of money and it has certainly not gone unnoticed or unappreciated.

MR. BARRETT: I take no credit for it. I would like to, but I have to pass the credit along to the previous minister.

WITNESS: He is the Minister of Mines now.

MR. COLLINS: Those are all the questions I have, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you.

CHAIR: Mr. Mercer?

MR. MERCER: No questions.

CHAIR: Mr. Andersen?

MR. ANDERSEN: I pass (inaudible).

CHAIR: Ms Jones?

MS JONES: No questions, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIR: No questions.

I have one, and one comment: just that there is a bypass road through Port aux Basques. Is that contained in the Estimates this year, and approved by the department?

MR. BARRETT: There is a study being done, and a cost analysis, and hopefully there will be some work done on that overpass in this fiscal year.

CHAIR: Okay.

The second thing is: from a person who has been in rural Newfoundland, Minister, I would just like to pass on to you and your staff that the work that the local staff out on the West Coast are doing on the roads is to be very much commended, to see the roads done early and kept up to a very good, acceptable standard. On behalf of the constituents, I think the staff are doing a great job. If you can, pass it on to the people on the West Coast, particularly in the Bay of Islands area, that the job is well appreciated and it is much deserving of credit to the local staff in the area.

MR. BARRETT: Thank you very much. I will pass on your comments.

On motion, subheads 1.1.01. through 5.1.04., carried.

On motion, Department of Works, Services and Transportation, total heads, carried.

CHAIR: Thank you, Minister.

MR. BARRETT: Thank you.

On motion, the Committee adjourned.