The Committee met at 7:00 p.m. in the Assembly Chamber.

CHAIR (Skinner): Order, please!

Good evening folks. Thank you very much for coming out tonight. I would like to welcome you all here.

I think what we will do is start off, first of all, by just introducing ourselves so that we all know each other. When we finish with the introductions then I will continue on.

My name is Shawn Skinner, MHA for St. John's Centre.

MR. ORAM: Paul Oram, MHA for Terra Nova.

MR. ANDERSEN: Wally Andersen, MHA for Torngat Mountains.

MS JONES: Yvonne Jones, MHA for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MR. LANGDON: Oliver Langdon, MHA for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

MR. FORSEY: Clayton Forsey, MHA for Exploits.

MS E. MARSHALL: Beth Marshall, MHA for Topsail.

CHAIR: I am sorry, minister. Go ahead, please.

MS WHALEN: Dianne Whalen, Minister of Government Services and MHA for Conception Bay East & Bell Island.

MS MACDONALD: Sheree MacDonald, Deputy Minister of Government Services.

MR. MOORES: Wayne Moores, Manager of Financial Operations.

MR. CAHILL: Larry Cahill, Chief Operating Officer, Government Purchasing Agency.

MS COLEMAN-SADD: Vanessa Coleman-Sadd, Director of Communications.

MS KELLAND: Donna Kelland, Assistant Deputy Minister of Government Services.

MS DUNPHY: Kim Dunphy, Assistant Deputy Minister, Occupational Health and Safety, Government Services.

MR. MORRIS: Winston Morris, Assistant Deputy Minister, Consumer and Commercial Affairs, Government Services.

CHAIR: Thank you very much folks. It is nice to put some faces to names. I have heard some of the names lots of times but I am just seeing you for the first time, so welcome to everybody.

My plan is to allow whomever is going to lead off with questions to sort of carry on for awhile. Ms Jones will lead off. I am not going to go the ten minute and ten minute. I am just going to let you go on. When you feel like you want to take a break let me know and I will move on to another speaker, another questioner. We will just see how that goes.

Before we start that, I am going to ask the minister - do I have to read the heading in first?

CLERK: Yes.

CHAIR: Okay. I have to read in the heading. Once I read in the heading, minister, then I am going to turn it over to you and you can do your introductory remarks, however long you need for that. After we do that, we will start with the questions.

CLERK: Subhead 1.1.01.

CHAIR: I will just read into the record, under Government Services, heading 1.1.01. I will pass the floor to the minister so you can do your opening remarks.

MS WHALEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the Committee for giving me an opportunity to give an overview of my department.

The Department of Government Services has an extensive public service mandate encompassing Consumer and Commercial Affairs, Government Services and Occupational Health and Safety branches. All branches have one thing in common - we are here to protect the public and the occupational health and safety of the residents of this Province and to safeguard consumer interests.

Of our $30.5 million in spending for 2006-2007, almost 72 per cent is for salaries - reflecting the fact that our main resources are our human resources dedicated to service delivery - as is fitting for a service-oriented department. As well, over 27 per cent of our budget is spent directly in regions outside of the St. John's-Mount Pearl metropolitan area, including Motor Registration Division, Government Service Centres, Vital Statistics, Residential Tenancy and Occupational Health and Safety services. Part of the remaining 73 per cent is also focused on providing provincial level services to the regions.

In addition to service delivery in the regions of the Province, we have made a commitment to make government more accessible to people and companies through the Internet. We have made significant progress in this area through on-line services, such as vehicle registrations, and registries for companies, deeds, lobbyists and mechanics liens. As well, we have also implemented the Web-based Lien Check system to make it easier for consumers to search the Province's Personal Property Registry for loans.

To give you a quick snapshot of some of our revenues, our commercial registries generally collects revenues of $24.3 million. Vital Statistics collects $820,000 in revenue, and licence and registration processing at the Motor Registration Division has a revenue of $68 million for all fees collected.

In the 2006-2007 Budget, we will be continuing improvements in this area and plan to implement a pilot project for all on-line debit transactions, in addition to the current credit card acceptance.

In the area of public safety, we are in the final stages of developing an ATV safety awareness campaign to promote the safe use of ATVs. We hope to launch this campaign later this spring.

In Budget 2006, we have increased funding for public education and awareness of other safety

issues to reduce the incidence of cell phone use by drivers, increase the use of seatbelts and child safety seats and help eliminate drinking and driving. In future, we hope this campaign will also address other issues of public and consumer health and safety.

In Budget 2006, we have been able to make improvements in the area of monitoring highway safety and protection of our public road infrastructure by opening the fixed weigh scales at Port aux Basques and Foxtrap on a strategic basis. We now have the flexibility to enhance our efforts in this area through a fiscally prudent approach.

Government will provide a total of $283,500 to re-activate those fixed weigh scale facilities. The Port aux Basques operation will be generally tied to the Marine Atlantic ferry schedule, to capture commercial traffic coming to and leaving the Island. Foxtrap will operate on a strategic, part-time basis in conjunction with the region's portable weigh scales unit in order to improve enforcement.

While we continue to believe that highway safety was not significantly compromised with the earlier decision to close these facilities, we do agree that increased monitoring and enforcement would be beneficial now that we are in a position to do so, particularly as it relates to maintenance of the road infrastructure. As part of this initiative, we will be enhancing our evaluation system to get a clearer picture of compliance by the trucking industry and where we need to further target our efforts.

Another area of utmost importance to us is public health and safety. In co-operation with the Department of Health and Community Services, my department is responsible for the Environmental Health program. A total of $3.3 million is spent annually on the monitoring of food and drinking water safety, public health in schools, personal care homes, day cares, recreational and other public facilities and responding to communicable disease outbreaks. A total of thirty-six Environmental Health Officer positions are dedicated to this effort.

In 2006-2007, we have converted seven temporary of these Environmental Health Officer positions to permanent for a long-term investment of $450,000. This will help us to recruit and retain people, who have been in high demand across the country, especially since the drinking water tragedy which occurred at Walkerton, Ontario.

We have also secured an investment of $80,800 for a bursary program to develop a pool of certified EHOs to fill vacant positions, particularly for rural areas. In addition to our regular staff complement, the Department of Government Services will be recruiting a minimum of two trainees through this program in the 2006-2007 fiscal year.

Budget 2006-2007 will provide $35,000 for Vital Statistics to issue a newly designed birth certificate with enhanced security features to lower the risk for identity theft. This is a project which is being carried out across the country so that all birth certificates will have the same look and feel no matter where you live in this country.

The Occupational Health and Safety Branch has had another productive year in terms of inspection activity. They have issued almost 6,000 directives in 2005, a 32 per cent increase over 2004. The branch has conducted a little over 3,500 inspections, a 36 per cent increase over 2004 numbers and they have issued 400 stop work orders, a 67 per cent increase over 2004. These numbers show we have stepped up our inspections to take on a zero tolerance policy. Our workplaces are not becoming more unsafe, we are becoming more efficient.

By improving our workplaces for employees, we are reducing the number of workplace injuries and deaths, which in turn reduces the burden on our health care and compensation systems. This focus on inspections will continue this year with a total budget of $4.38 million.

The Government Purchasing Agency, through the Chief Operating Officer, is directly responsible to the Minister of Government Services. Last year the agency was involved in a major reorganization to satisfy a new mandate of transparency, accountability and fair opportunity. Some positions have been filled while others will be posted in the upcoming year as program and system support are finalized. It is expected full staff complement will be achieved in the current fiscal year.

Thank you for the time to speak to you. I have brought my staff along, if there are any questions pertaining to the budget.

CHAIR: Thank you, minister.

If I could, I just had a couple of quick housekeeping items that I wanted to mention. Just for members of the committee, I was given a schedule late today that has some changes to our times. So, the changes - actually, we were scheduled to meet next Monday evening but according to the schedule I was given, we will also be meeting next Monday morning and doing Finance and the Public Service Commission. So, instead of just the three meetings that we were scheduled, there is now a fourth one. I do not know if you guys were given that change yet or not, but I just wanted to mention it to you. If there are any questions on that, you can see me later on about it. I think that is it.

Ms Jones, are you ready?

MS JONES: Yes, I am.

CHAIR: Okay, when you are ready you can start.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

My name is Yvonne Jones. I am the MHA for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair and I am filling in for my colleague this evening, George Sweeney, who is also the critic for this department. I thank you minister for your opening comments and to your staff for being available to us this evening.

I would like to start with some questions around the Insurance Reform Program. Back, I think it was a little over a year ago, your department made some reform to the insurance program in Newfoundland and Labrador - I guess with the intention of reducing insurance rates in the Province, especially for people with automobiles in particular. I would like for you to give me an update as to how much the premiums were reduced in that current year, if the strategy is still working and if there are savings still being realized by automobile owners?

MS WHALEN: Well, we have made significant reforms in our auto insurance. Actually, in 2004 we made a reduction of 15 per cent in our auto premiums. In 2005, we made another 5 per cent reduction. We have also commissioned the PUB to do a review in our marine, commercial and residential insurance. That report, I understand, will be available - within the next few weeks probably - to Government Services and we will be looking at it then, if we need to take any more steps in our insurance reforms.

MS JONES: Who did you say is doing the review?

MS WHALEN: The PUB, the Public Utilities Board.

MS JONES: Okay. Are they reviewing just for the reduction amount or for the other adjustments as well?

MS WHALEN: They are looking at the commercial, the marine and the residential, and then they will give that data to Government Services. We will look at it and see exactly what all the data concerns are that they have done through consultations.

MS JONES: Okay. Did the policies that you guys put in place deter the business activity of insurance companies in the Province at all?

MS WHALEN: No, we have not lost any insurances companies as a result of our reforms.

MS JONES: Okay. I would also like to ask you about some of the fees. Last year there were thirty-seven fees in your department that were increased. I think it was a total of over $14 million accumulated in your department as a result of it. I would just like to ask if there were any of those fees reduced in this Budget, eliminated or increased again?

MS WHALEN: We did increase some fees the year before last, and we have had some decrease in those fees this year. We have had reduction in the initial review - rather than wait for the broader review, government proceeded with items that we could identify immediately. It is what they call a quick hit elimination.

Some of these fees, like the medical reassessment for the road tests, that has been reduced. That was $100, it is down to zero right now. The Contractor Registration Fee was $300, that has been reduced to $150 now. The Licence Fee for Food Premises has no fee, that has been reduced from $250 to zero. Certificate of Authority for Insurance Companies and Brokers, that has gone back to zero, that was $25. Copy of Licence - Insurance Companies and Brokers was $10, it is now zero. Copy of Licence - Trust Companies was $10, it is now zero. Licensing Fee for Automobile Dealers was $50 to $100, it is now zero. Licencing Fee for Salvage Dealers was $100 to $300, that is now zero. Late Filing Fees - (Co-operatives), required to file annually, that is reduced to zero. Examination Fee - Cooperatives, was $10, it is now zero. Restating of Article Incorporation of Co-operatives was $100, it is now zero.

MS JONES: Was the projected -

MS WHALEN: There are more, if you would like me to continue on with it?

MS JONES: Yes, sure. Keep going.

MS WHALEN: Copies of documents certified by the superintendent or deputy superintendent, that was $20, it is now zero. Certification of Registration of Co-operatives was $10, it is now zero. Certificate of Good Standing (Co-operatives) was $10, it is now zero. Revival Fee for Non-profit Corporations was $300, it is now zero. Filing of documents not specifically referenced in the Corporations Act for non-profits was $10, it is now zero. Late Filing Fee for Corporations was $10 to $50, it is now zero. Certificate of Corporate name issued by the registrar under the Corporations Act was $10, it is now zero. Application for certain exemptions under the Corporations Act was $25, it is now zero. Notice of ceasing to carry on business under the Corporations Act was $10, it is now zero.

CHAIR: I think she is finished.

MS JONES: You are done?

MS WHALEN: Yes.

MS JONES: Okay. You did not mention the driver's licence fees or the motor vehicle registration fees, none of those have been reduced, have they?

MS WHALEN: No, because we took a step, this government did, to put that money into the infrastructure of the roads. We put in a significant amount of money this year of $142 million. So, that money is generated to go into the infrastructure of the roads. Until we get the roads up to the par that it should be, I do not think we will be looking at reducing that fee. But the government has an overall fee review right now, so it is possible it could be looked at there.

MS JONES: Who is doing that?

MS WHALEN: That is the Department of Finance.

CHAIR: It is actually being handled through -

MS WHALEN: Yes, its our Red Tape Reduction (inaudible).

CHAIR: Department of Business and the Red Tape Reduction Regulatory Reform Commission.

MS JONES: Department of Business? I do not see any estimates scheduled for them.

How much money is the department going to lose as a result of now reducing those fees back?

MS WHALEN: I guess I could go back over them again, but in the case of the medical re-assessment it was $10,000. In the case of the Contractor Registration Fee it is $90,000. In the case of the Licence Fee for Food Premises, $600,000.

MS JONES: Do you have a total amount there, minister?

MS WHALEN: I do not have it totalled up, no. I just have it broken down by fees. If you want me to take a few minutes -

MS JONES: Can you table a copy of that for me?

MS WHALEN: Yes.

MS JONES: Okay.

CHAIR: She will table that later. That was the expectation I had, the document would be tabled. You didn't want it right now, did you?

MS JONES: Yes.

CHAIR: Oh, you want it right now?

MS JONES: She can table it, yes. The (inaudible).

MS WHALEN: (Inaudible) thousand, that is what it totals up to, Mr. Chair.

MS JONES: Yes. I will just have a tabled copy, that is fine.

MS WHALEN: Okay.

CHAIR: So, we can just get a photocopy -

MS WHALEN: I will get a copy of that, yes.

MS JONES: The weigh scales; I know you guys made a decision to close the weigh scales at Foxtrap and Port aux Basques back a year or so ago, and you said tonight that you guys made a decision to put it back. It was not necessarily a highway safety reason that you decided to put it back, but I have a question, first of all, of why government made the decision to close them in the first place and then, in a relatively short period of time, decided to reopen them. If it wasn't a safety concern, it leaves me very puzzled as to why you took the action in the first place and now you are taking this action.

MS WHALEN: Well, the reason that we made it in the first place, it was the fiscal situation that we found ourselves in when we came into government. At that time it was a necessary measure to take. Since that time I have had some discussions with the former Mayor of Port aux Basques, and the Clerk and I spoke to some officials and people there. Actually, I spoke to some MHAs as well who were concerned about the infrastructure of the roads. We have since turned a corner right now and we are in a better position to be able to reopen those weigh scales.

MS JONES: Do you agree, as a result of closing those particular weigh scales, that there has been a cost to government just in terms of the damages on our highways as a result of that action?

MS WHALEN: Well, I do not think in this short period of time that they have been closed - you know, there has been no evidence that the road safety was compromised.

MS JONES: When are they going to reopen?

MS WHALEN: They will be up and running this summer. Five positions we have to fill right now and we have to do some, I guess, maintenance on the scales because they were not in operation a year before we came into government. Port aux Basques' scale was not operating out there. They were inoperable. We have to repair the scales and get maintenance done on it before we can reopen, so we expect that early this summer they will be open.

MS JONES: So, you figure by June?

MS WHALEN: I would think so.

MS JONES: I notice there wasn't any money in the Budget for any increase to assistance for the St. Lawrence miners - the widows. I know that is a fund that was set up by government to give them assistance. There is no doubt, many of these women are in dire need of additional income. I guess I am just wondering, you know, there were increases in certain parts of the Budget for low-income families, and people who are dependent upon government income, I suppose, like social assistance and so on, so I am just wondering why there were no increases for that particular group.

MS DUNPHY: I am not particularly familiar with the legislation that prescribes the amount of benefits that would be received, but I expect it is a standard amount that would have been negotiated at some point in time, and that is the amount that would have been allotted for each of these individuals. It is an amount that ranges from about $36 to $56 per person a month. It is a modest amount, and I think there are about 115 of those recipients still on the list to receive some sort of support.

CHAIR: If I could, could I just ask that you identify yourself, just so the recording people know?

MS DUNPHY: Yes, Kim Dunphy.

CHAIR: Your position as well, please.

MS DUNPHY: Kim Dunphy, Assistant Deputy Minister.

We can look into that piece of legislation for you, to determine how the fee structure is established, or the benefit structure is established.

MS JONES: I didn't hear what you said. What did you say? What did you just say, the last thing you said?

MS DUNPHY: I said, we can look into your question a little further in terms of how the benefits or the compensation is established for these particular individuals.

MS JONES: Yes, I would like to know, because there wasn't anything in the Budget for them, and I know that many of them have had a difficult time. I mean, they raised their children as single mothers, basically, as widows. I know they receive a very low wage, and it has been an issue for some time. I was a little bit surprised when there wasn't anything there.

MS DUNPHY: If I may, as long as I have been with the Department of Labour, that amount has been the same. Again, I am not sure of the background as to how it has been established but we definitely will look into that for you.

MS JONES: You can get the information for me, but I think it is more of a political question at this point. I guess I would like to ask the minister if it is a priority for her government, for her department, because I think - and you can correct me if I am wrong - these families right now are living at about a social assistance rate or maybe even a little bit lower.

MS WHALEN: I know that we have, for widows, made some improvements there with, I think, fifty-three widows, in this government. We are always looking at where we can improve living conditions for people.

I certainly will take that under advisement and bring it back to the Cabinet table to talk about this issue.

MS JONES: I think that needs to be done, because I do not think there is any clause in the agreement that allows for it to increase on a regular basis or anything like that. I think it is really a political decision as to whether the rates are increased or whether they are not.

MS WHALEN: I certainly will take it back to my colleagues, to discuss if there is anything we can do there in the next Budget, I guess, coming up.

MS JONES: Okay.

I have to ask another question, too. Back last year, there was an issue with veterans who had licence plates on their vehicles. It was war veterans. I know that they were being stopped by the RCMP and that their plates were being removed. At the time, the minister, you stated that you were going to look into this and that you were going to make a decision. I was wondering if you could clarify for me what action was taken, if any, if these people are still being stopped, and if their licence plates are still being removed?

MS KELLAND: We did look at that after the session last year and, as far as my people were aware, we have not had any reports of people being stopped so we were not quite sure where the problem was. What I know now is that the veterans' licence plates are issued on a fairly regular basis, and that is as much as I could find at the time.

If you are aware of specific circumstances we can certainly examine that, but when I went back to our Motor Registration people they did not seem to have identified any problem with the plates themselves.

MS JONES: There was some trouble, because they were making reports to my colleague's office at the time. I know he raised the issue here. The response, at that time, was that it would be looked into, but we never did get a response back from the department. That is why I wanted to know what the status of it was.

MS KELLAND: I think, certainly, if you have any specific incidents that we could investigate, that would be (inaudible).

MS JONES: Well, they were being stopped and their licence plates were being taken. Is it still being done? Is it not being done? Has it stopped?

MS KELLAND: As far as I know, it is not.

MS JONES: Have you authorized it through Motor Vehicle Registration? Have you not authorized it?

MS KELLAND: As far as I know, the veterans' licence plates are being issued and they are not being seized. Again, if I had a specific incident, we could investigate.

MS JONES: Are they being issued by Motor Vehicle Registration?

MS KELLAND: They are.

MS JONES: Okay.

Maybe you could check on that and let me know?

MS KELLAND: Surely, yes.

MS JONES: Or you could let my colleague know, probably.

CHAIR: Just for the record, your colleague, you mean Mr. Sweeney?

MS JONES: Yes, I am just filling in for him.

CHAIR: I realize that; I just wanted to be sure.

MS JONES: I am going to just pass it for a few minutes now, and someone else can have a turn.

CHAIR: Fair enough.

Mr. Oram?

MR. ORAM: No questions.

CHAIR: Mr. Andersen?

MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you.

Minister, I guess, not being the critic for this department - usually, I guess, when we go through these Estimates, people ask questions as it relates to their district. I am, I guess, in a unique position now that, out of the six communities that I represent, one has a federal status of a reserve. Of course, the other five Inuit communities now have their own self-government. I know that a lot of the fees and a lot of the structure of how people are billed is going to be, over a period of time, built into this new government. I guess, at this time, it is not a question of asking questions, but I guess through the year, as questions arise, how the structures will be implemented, then certainly I will be contacting your office.

I know that this past weekend I was into the capital village - I can't say city - of Nunatsiavut, which is Hopedale, and there were quite a number of questions being directed my way as to how these fees will be implemented, who is going to be charged, and who is going to be responsible. I guess, as time goes on, as their members contact me or your department, we will deal with these questions as they arise.

Again, I guess I would say to you that I hope that you treat - and I am sure you will - the questions that will come from these people, because they now have their own self-government. In many cases, instead of going through the MHA for a lot of things, other than to probably help put out a few fires, no doubt they will be dealing government to government. I ask that you and your staff, in every appropriate way, make changes that are going to be required of your department with this new government, make it a priority and I am sure you will give me your full co-operation.

That being said, I would like to thank you and your staff in advance because I am sure that you will provide the necessary questions and answers that they will require over the next number of years. Who knows, minister, before too long I may be sitting on that government.

CHAIR: I was wondering if you were going to get to that point.

MS WHALEN: Yes, we would want to see self-government, and we will look forward to working with you on any issues that you may have that we can help.

MR. ANDERSEN: That is quite all right.

CHAIR: Mr. Langdon.

MR. LANGDON: First, for clarification. The two weigh scales offices that are going to be open at Foxtrap and Port aux Basques, after the initial work that has to be done to put them back into operation again, are they going to be operating full-time, 24-7, like you would have at Goobies or Pynns Brook or whatever?

MS WHALEN: In Port aux Basques, it is going to be tied to the ferry schedule.

MR. LANGDON: Where? In Port aux Basques?

MS WHALEN: Yes, in Port aux Basques. In Foxtrap, it will be on a part-time random basis.

MR. LANGDON: Okay. So, the scales itself at Foxtrap or the building that is there, when you say at random, are they going to then have a mobile unit where they can check people?

MS WHALEN: Yes. There will also be the portables there as well, but this way it will help to improve the enforcement there with the -

MR. LANGDON: Yes, but what you are saying is that it will not be on a 24-7, seven days?

MS WHALEN: No, it will not be 24-7. It will be open on different shifts.

MR. LANGDON: Yes, I understand. That is fine. Port aux Basques, I can see where that is going to be fine because you are going to tie it to the ferry service. Once you have that, you have caught all the traffic anyway. So that will take care of that. It was just a matter of personal clarification. When Yvonne was asking the question I did not hear that, so I had to check that out.

The other thing - you probably do not have it on hand but you might be able to get it. You were saying that practically for the total amount of fees that were charged to the public in whatever category they might be, then whatever that total would be, the total of all these fees was then given, say, to the Department of Finance for government to be able to use for the Provincial Roads Program. Can you tell me how much would have been raised in 2005-2006 and what you anticipate in 2006-2007 from all of these fees?

MS WHALEN: Is it from Motor Registration you are talking about?

MR. LANGDON: Yes.

MS WHALEN: It is $9.6 million.

MR. LANGDON: It is $9.6 million for registration fees for -

MS WHALEN: Yes.

MR. LANGDON: That is for private and commercial vehicles?

MS WHALEN: That is for the increase of $180 we are talking about here.

MR. LANGDON: Pardon?

MS WHALEN: That is for the fee of $180 we are talking about here that was increased.

MR. LANGDON: Yes, I was thinking about, like, for commercial, too.

I just want to say to you, there was a time when I was over where the minister is and rather than passing all the information along, which would help the minister - then all you have to do is identify yourself, and I am sure the minister would not mind giving the information. It is easier for her and probably easier for you. We are not making it difficult for the minister. We are trying to make it easier. I do not think Ms MacDonald has been here before. That is the whole idea, so they can answer that.

So, we are saying then, for the private vehicles, it is about - what was it, $18 million?

OFFICIAL: It is $9.6 million, where it went from $140 to $180. That was for the vehicle registration.

MR. LANGDON: Private, yes. What about for commercial registrations, do you have that?

OFFICIAL: No, I do not have that on hand. I could provide that.

MR. LANGDON: That is okay. I would not expect you to have all the numbers but if you could get it, then I would appreciate that.

On a couple of line questions, if you do not mind. In 1.2.01, Executive Support under Professional Services there. Like 1.2.01.05; you had budgeted $35,000 spent, the revised budget was $10,000 and this year it is $185,000. I am wondering if you can give me the reason why that would have happened?

CHAIR: It is page 39 of our book. I am not sure if you have the same page.

MS WHALEN: Thirty-nine?

MR. LANGDON: Under Government Services, yes.

CHAIR: 1.2.01.05.

MR. LANGDON: 1.2.01.05.

MS WHALEN: Yes. The Professional Services increased as the result of a consultant who was hired to perform a comprehensive workload analysis, $150,000, and as the second phase of the role and mandate review.

MR. LANGDON: Was it for workload, you said?

MS WHALEN: Yes, a workload analysis.

MR. LANGDON: Workload analysis. That's for government?

MS WHALEN: It is for Government Services, yes.

MS JONES: Was that an analysis of the employees' workload?

MS WHALEN: Yes, the resources that we have there.

MS JONES: Okay.

MS WHALEN: I have to look at it and determine what kind of resources that we will need to carry out the services that we are providing.

MR. LANGDON: Executive Support, 1.2.01. Salaries have been decreased by about $114,500. I was wondering if there have been any layoffs? What would be the difference for that?

MS WHALEN: No, there has not been any layoffs in the Department of Government Services.

MR. LANGDON: All right, so where would the decrease have been?

MS MACDONALD: Are you looking at -

MR. LANGDON: 1.2.01.

CHAIR: He is looking at the budget versus the revised amount.

MR. LANGDON: Executive Support.

MS WHALEN: Okay. The salary decrease reflects the elimination of funding for the role and mandate review. The salary decrease reflects the relocation of approved information technology funding to the Office of the Chief Information Officer and a temporary information technology position for the development and maintenance of a Web site, and less money is required for the role and the mandate review.

MR. LANGDON: Okay.

Also, in 1.2.02 Administrative Support; you had budgeted for $530,000 for Property, Furnishings and Equipment. It was revised to $728,000 and this year it is $299,000.

MS WHALEN: The Property, Furnishings and Equipment increase reflects the additional equipment being acquired by the printing and micrographics service division. This will make their division more efficient and effective, since their old equipment was becoming obsolete. The following equipment was purchased: a collator, a signature booklet maker and two colour printing press. In addition, twenty-five vehicles were added to our fleet of eight replacements, seventeen additional vehicles, and these additional vehicles were provided to staff who previously travelled in excess of 25,000 kilometres in their own private vehicles. This will result in operational savings.

MR. LANGDON: In 3.1.01 Administration, again. Salaries for Administration was budgeted for $1.1 million and then it is down to $918,000, and this year it is $857,000. What has changed there?

MS WHALEN: The salary cost decrease reflects less required for the ATV legislation initiative.

MS JONES: Say that again?

MS WHALEN: The salary cost decrease reflects less required for the ATV legislation initiative that we did.

MS JONES: So, you laid some people off?

MS WHALEN: No, we did not lay anybody off.

MS JONES: Okay.

Well, I don't understand. The budget is down $800,000.

MS MACDONALD: Originally, we had it budgeted last year for about $945,000 for an ATV legislation initiative in terms of a number of things that we thought we might do, but we did not do those, so the people were not hired, and now our budget reflects that change.

MS JONES: Okay.

MR. LANGDON: I guess, then, 3.1.02., under Driver Examinations and Weigh Scale Operations, you have an increase in Transportation and Communications budgeted last year from $94,000 revised to $84,000 and it says $103,000. What would be the reason for that increase?

MS WHALEN: The expenditure increase reflects the restoration of the weigh scales in Port aux Basques and Foxtrap.

MR. LANGDON: I figured.

I am going to leave these line by line. Probably Yvonne or Wally might be able to pick up a few more. There are not many of them.

I just want to go back to the insurance thing briefly.

MS WHALEN: Sure.

MR. LANGDON: I know that the legislation, when it was introduced and so on, you were talking about a 15 per cent decrease in premiums to the general public. That 15 per cent decrease was not on the total package that a person would have when he purchased insurance from Munn's, Anthony's, or whatever the case might be. I think that was 15 per cent on collision, probably comprehensive and medical benefits, in that sense, and not the PLPD coverage which is the most expensive.

Do you have any idea of how much that would average out to a person like me, who probably has a clean driving record and has a Chevrolet or a Pontiac car, two or three years old, with full coverage? What would that mean to me in terms of a decrease or savings to me as a driver, as the public?

MR. MORRIS: For an average driver, say, on the Avalon Peninsula, there was a 9 per cent mandated reduction on public liability. When you take into account all the other coverages that you mentioned - comprehensive, collision and so on - it should average around 15 per cent. I would say the average driver is probably spending around $1,500 to $2,000, in that range, per year for total coverage on the Avalon, so you are talking roughly 15 per cent of that would probably be around a couple of hundred dollars per year, in that range. The reduction should have been somewhere around there, $150 to $200, I would say, for an average person.

MR. LANGDON: If it was a $1,500 policy, 15 per cent of that would be about $225.

MR. MORRIS: That is right.

MR. LANGDON: I read recently about what the reductions were for the general public in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. They, of course, had the cap for the public liability rather than what we did here. We decided to have a higher deductible rather than a cap. The amount of savings to the motoring public in New Brunswick more than tripled, I think it was, what it was here - or more than doubled, anyhow - and Nova Scotia was pretty much the same thing.

I am wondering, has the department looked at what it is in New Brunswick, and looked at what it is in Nova Scotia, as a part of your insurance review for residential, commercial, and the other part? Have you had any direction from government so that you might be able to take a look at, again as a part of that review, the cap process?

MR. MORRIS: On the auto side of it, we have looked at the reductions in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, and we have tracked them back for the last five years, actually, and the reductions up to the latest figures we had, which were 2004, we were about the same as Nova Scotia. New Brunswick had a little more reduction up to that date.

On the home owner, commercial and marine insurance, that aspect of it, the rates there are not regulated, those insurance coverages are not, as far as rates go, like auto insurance is. We have no data on what the rates are there compared to our own Province and, to my knowledge, they have not done anything in those provinces as far as reviewing those types of coverages.

We asked the Public Utilities Board to do a review of those coverages on all aspects, not only rates as to our people being provided adequate coverage, or, are they being treated fairly for underwriting and those types of things? We would hope to get that report this spring to see what they have come up with.

There was an Atlantic Task Force spearheaded by the Insurance Bureau of Canada, and all of the provinces' insurance superintendent's offices had someone attend those as observers. That was focused mainly on commercial insurance, particularly the non-profit sector, where there seemed to be the biggest problem of non-profits providing, or not being able to obtain insurance at reasonable rates. I think that report is out. It did not come up with any sort of concrete recommendations, except to say that these organizations and companies need to put in place risk prevention factors, to make sure that they are providing proper safety measures so they do not have accidents, and those sorts of things, and that everyone should review their procedures to make sure they get the best rate possible, but there is no concrete recommendations as to what can be done to bring rates down per se. We will wait for the PUB to finish their report, because they have also reviewed this Atlantic report to see if they can come up with any suggestions as to how they can help these people; but I will say the problems in that respect, as far as commercial insurance in particular, have gone down considerably over the last few years. After the 2001 disaster 9-11, commercial insurance became pretty hard to get and rates went up, but the market has improved considerably and we have not received very many complaints from commercial enterprises having difficulty in getting insurance, and I think the rates have come down somewhat since then.

MR. LANGDON: Would it be possible for you to supply us, as a Committee, or me, as an individual, a copy of the review that you have done that compared our rates to those of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick? Because what I had read contradicts directly what you are saying. I am not saying that what you are giving me is false information. I would not even suggest that in the slightest, but at least for my own personal satisfaction, after having read what I have read, and then being able to counter what I have read by the statistics or information that you have given from the department, then you will have something that you can go back at when you are presented with both sides of the equation. I would appreciate it if you could get that.

MR. MORRIS: Yes, I certainly can. The figures that I have were actually taken from the report put out by the Insurance Bureau of Canada. Every year they do a report on the premiums in each jurisdiction. I did the calculation for the last five years, and I can certainly get you a copy of that.

MR. LANGDON: I do not want to carry it any further, just for a matter of clarification.

MR. MORRIS: Sure.

MR. LANGDON: In the article that I read, I thought they said that the Newfoundland motoring public, on an average, saw a decrease of about 17 per cent. Nova Scotia was in the high twenties or low thirties, and New Brunswick was 43 per cent. So, if you have information that could counter that for me, I would like to have it and to see it.

MR. MORRIS: Sure, and the figures I have would be up to 2004. I do not have 2005 figures available yet. They are not available.

MR. LANGDON: Okay. So, you do not have 2005?

MR. MORRIS: Not 2005. No, they are not published yet.

MR. LANGDON: That's all right. That's fair enough. If you could get that I would appreciate it.

MR. MORRIS: Yes, certainly.

CHAIR: Mr. Langdon, you are done?

MR. LANGDON: I am done for now, yes.

CHAIR: Okay.

Mr. Forsey?

MR. FORSEY: No, thank you.

CHAIR: Ms Marshall?

MS E. MARSHALL: No, I have no questions.

CHAIR: Mr. Oram?

MR. ORAM: No, not a thing. Everything is good, perfect.

MS JONES: Wally has one more question and then I will finish mine.

CHAIR: Okay.

Mr. Andersen, you are being given the floor by your colleague.

MR. ANDERSEN: She is very kind.

Minister, one question that has come quite a bit, and I raised it last year, and that is the people on the North Coast of Labrador, a lot of them own vehicles but yet they have to pay the full cost for a sticker. I think it is $180 a year. They can only use their vehicles for about three or four months of the year. Last year I asked if there was something that could be done and you and your department advised me that it would be looked in to.

A licence is different, because sometimes they will fly out from the North Coast communities to Goose Bay or St. John's and they need their driver's licence, but for most of these people their vehicles stay in these isolated communities. I asked last year if you would look at something for these people - charging them a set fee where they can only utilize their vehicles for three or four months of the year. I did not receive a reply back. Last year you said you would look into it. So I am posing the same question again.

MS WHALEN: Are you looking for a prorated fee? Is that what you are saying?

MR. ANDERSEN: Yes.

MS WHALEN: Donna, can you answer that?

MS KELLAND: We did look at that issue, and one of the difficulties is in actually being able to define various communities around the Province where people might use their vehicles seasonally, but there is an option for people to actually have a seasonal fee for a licence. They have to turn in their licence plates to do that but they can get a licence for a short period of time; for example, three months or six months. So, people can avail of that option, but it does involve turning in their licence plates and then getting them again the following year. Otherwise, there is not much we can do, just identifying given communities where people might only use their vehicles for part-time. That was the conclusion that we did come to. So, there is that option.

MR. ANDERSEN: Minister, I think it would be very easy to find out as to what communities cannot use their vehicles except for just in the summer months. Particularly on the North Coast of Labrador, you know the roads are not plowed. The only place where people use vehicles is on the reservation of Natuashish, but in the five Inuit communities the roads are not plowed. Again, we think it is quite unfair that these people have to go out there and pay $180 every year to renew their licence. Transportation and Works has an employee who is in each community full-time because they maintain the airstrip in the wintertime. I think between your department and Transportation and Works, that this person who works at the airstrip could certainly verify to you and your department as to what vehicles are parked in these isolated communities for six to eight months of the year.

MS WHALEN: If you would be kind enough to supply me with the information, the communities that you are talking about, I certainly will look into that for you, to see if there is any action I can take on your behalf.

MR. ANDERSEN: Okay. Thank you.

CHAIR: Ms Jones?

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Under 3.1.02 - my colleague asked a question, that is Driver Examinations and Weigh Scale Operations. There was an increase of $300,000 in Salaries there. Is that for the five new positions that you are going to hire for the weigh scales?

MS WHALEN: Yes, there are salary increases there for $86,000.

MS JONES: Yes. None of that is for driver examiners though, is it?

MS WHALEN: No, that is for the positions for the weigh scales.

MS JONES: Okay.

Did you lay off any driver examiners or cut any positions?

MS WHALEN: No, they fed into the system elsewhere. They had to do some bumping and went into the system elsewhere.

MS JONES: Okay, but are there fewer people now doing driver examinations in the Province?

MS WHALEN: No, we have not lost any of our driver examiners this year. We have not had any cuts this year.

MS JONES: Because I have heard some complaints. I do not know if they have changed the way they do their work or what, but one that comes right to mind is in the Placentia area where there used to be a driver examiner come in there, like one day out of a month or week, or whatever the case may be. There have been others. I cannot remember the exact communities now, but I know that I have talked to people - Burgeo was another one of them - where they now have to go out to a particular area to do the examination. Can you tell me why that is?

MS WHALEN: We did, the year before last, cut back on the driver examiner's stations. Placentia was one of them, that if you had to be within two hours, you drive two hours to - I forget the station - the site for Placentia.

MS KELLAND: I think Harbour Grace would be the nearest site for Placentia now.

MS WHALEN: We have actually revisited the driver examiners and we are going to open Burgeo again because there is some hardship there for the people down on the coast who have had to go out to Stephenville and stay overnight. So, we have reversed that decision and we are going to be putting a driver examiner back into Burgeo.

MS JONES: Yes.

MS WHALEN: It will not be a position. He is going to go there and do the examining.

MS JONES: There is one on the Northern Peninsula too, is there? I do not remember what they all were now - I am sure if my colleague was here he would - but there were a number of locations. It was also my understanding that the driver examiners did not have a problem with going into these communities and doing the work, but it was rather a government policy that forbid them to do it any longer.

MS WHALEN: Well, it was one of the cost-cutting measures that we undertook when we came to government for the fiscal situation. We had twenty sites around the Province. One of the guidelines we had was you drive two hours to a station. We had some lobbying from the Mayor of Burgeo and he explained the situation where people at the coast had to come out and stay overnight in Stephenville. We have since revisited that and we are going to be sending a driver examiner back into Burgeo to do the driver exams again.

MS JONES: Okay. Are you re-examining any of the other locations?

MS WHALEN: Right now I have looked at a couple of locations but I have not revisited all the sites that we had closed down. That was like $100,000 savings to government at that time.

MS JONES: They had good travel status.

Under section 3.1.03, Licence and Registration Processing, the salaries have increased by $60,000. Was there some new hiring in that department?

MS WHALEN: Yes, that salary increase reflects the negotiated and the step increases for the people who occupy the positions.

MS JONES: Okay. So, there is no new position?

MS WHALEN: No.

MS JONES: The Purchased Services are up by $300,000. They are double of last year actually.

MS WHALEN: The Purchased Services increase reflects the increased volume of customers using online Web-based credit card services and the online Web-based debit card service.

MS JONES: Okay. That is mostly for motor vehicle, I guess, is it?

MS WHALEN: Yes, and Registry of Deeds, we have some online as well. That is MRD only.

MS JONES: Again, under 3.1.04, which would be the National Safety Code, there is an $80,000 increase in Salaries. I guess that is step increases as well?

MS WHALEN: Yes, that salary increase reflects the negotiated and the step increases, too.

MS JONES: Okay. Under 3.3.01, Vital Statistics -

MS WHALEN: What is that again? Three point what?

MS JONES: 3.3.01. Again, there is a $50,000 increase. Is that just step increases and wage increases?

MS WHALEN: Yes, some of that salary increase reflects the severance and the redundancy, and the vacation pay due to the retirements.

MS JONES: Okay. How many people retired in your department in the last year?

MS WHALEN: I do not have that number available right now.

MS JONES: Can you get it for us?

MS WHALEN: Sure.

MS JONES: Can you also tell us how much money was paid out in severance and -

MS WHALEN: I will have to get that for you. I do not have it available tonight.

MS JONES: Okay.

Under Vital Statistics; this is an area that, as an MHA, I have a lot of dealings with, I guess, in one way or another. I have a district that is a long ways away from St. John's, and it seems like I have my staff half the time running back and forth to Vital Statistics picking up birth certificates, social insurance cards, some other kind of certificates, going back looking for stuff. Is there a way that you can have a better system that people can use in the rural areas? Because it is very time consuming and we do stuff for people almost on a weekly basis through Vital Statistics.

MS WHALEN: Okay, I will get my assistant deputy minister to answer that.

MS KELLAND: We do have vital statistics services in certain of our regional offices. For more remote locations or some of the other communities, we do either a mail service - in cases of emergency, we can look at courier services and things like that, but normally we would do those things by mail and through the nearest office.

Vital statistics is a little bit of a special case where there are a number of security issues, particularly around the security of the birth certificate itself because those are personal identity documents. So we are a little more restricted in where we can actually have printing of those services, due to some of those security requirements. We can certainly look at particular areas if there are issues and see if we can help streamline the service.

MS JONES: Unfortunately, I cannot give you all the specific details like I wish I could. I know that we have situations where you would think it would be simple for someone to make a phone call and have this sent out to them or be able to get it in some other way. What we are having to do, my staff, is going down there, picking things up, bringing it back and ‘couriering' it to Labrador so that people have the information that they need in a timely manner. It has been a real nuisance and I can get more details from my office -

MS KELLAND: If you would, yes.

MS JONES: - in terms of the kind of cases it is, but it happens a lot. I do not know if there is a code that people can get so that when they need information regarding themselves they can use this code to access it or something for security reasons, but there has to be a simpler way than it is right now. I am sure there are other MHAs who have to do the same thing, but I know our office does it on a fairly regular basis. Perhaps the word is out that we do this kind of service, I do not know, but it is a bit of a hassle.

The Queen's Printer, 3.3.02. The salary there has been cut by $30,000. I am just wondering why that is?

MS WHALEN: The salary decrease reflects the redistribution of salary positions to the printing and the micrographic services.

MS JONES: Okay. So, you moved it from the Queen's Printer heading to the Printing And Micrographic Services?

MS WHALEN: Yes.

MS JONES: Okay, that is why there is a $30,000 increase there.

MS WHALEN: Decrease.

MS JONES: Yes, an increase in the other one I mean.

They are all in the one place though, aren't they? They are all in the one office?

MS WHALEN: Printing is in one location, yes.

MS JONES: Under 4.1.02., Occupational Health and Safety Inspections, there was a salary increase of $140,000.

MS WHALEN: That salary increase was due to the redistribution of salaries from the Occupational Health and Safety standards and the regulatory review, and the negotiated salary and step increases, having a full staff complement.

MS JONES: Okay.

MR. LANGDON: Minister - or assistant deputy minister, Kim, could probably answer this question. I am told when the people who were there in Occupational Health and Safety, some of the guys, most of them have probably left the department and gone into private industry or private business and so on. I am wondering, has there been any attempt - say by your department, the minister's department - to probably reconfigure these salaries and then give these Occupational Health and Safety Inspectors a higher level of salary? I know we will never be able to compete with the Terra Novas or Huskies or whatever, but has that happened or not happened?

MS DUNPHY: We have lost a couple of positions to Alberta, but most of those positions have not been people who have been with the government a long time, so they do not have a lot vested in terms of time and pension and that sort of stuff. We also have a lot of people who are very highly qualified but yet choose to stay with government despite being courted by private industry. One of the ways we do that is by encouraging professional development and doing things other than salary related that improves their job, their work performance, gives them an opportunity to develop themselves, get certification, professional standards. That has offset the drain from the department. So we really have not lost a lot of positions to private industry.

MS JONES: Minister, you also handle all the regulations and licensing for funeral homes, don't you?

MS WHALEN: Yes.

MS JONES: Can you tell me if they are all conforming to the licence regulations, especially the ones in Gambo and Glovertown?

MS WHALEN: Yes, they are all conforming to the best of my knowledge.

MS JONES: Mr. Chairman, I have no other questions. My colleagues are all finished. I would just like to thank the minister and thank Sheree and all the officials for being here this evening and giving us their time and their responses.

CHAIR: Thank you.

I have just a couple of housekeeping items, if I could.

For the Committee members, we have the minutes from our meeting of yesterday morning. I would like a motion to adopt those.

MR. FORSEY: So moved.

CHAIR: Mr. Forsey.

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Contra-minded.

Carried.

On motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR: We need to read the headings.

CLERK: 1.1.01 to 5.1.01 inclusive.

CHAIR: 1.1.01 to 5.1.01 inclusive carried.

So moved by Mr. Andersen.

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Contra-minded.

Carried.

On motion, subheads 1.1.01 through 5.1.01 carried.

On motion, Department of Government Services, total heads, carried.

CHAIR: Our next committee meeting is next Monday morning. Make sure you change your schedules or add that to your schedules because it was not on the original schedule.

MR. LANGDON: Shawn, can I ask you a question? I thought before that the Department of Finance was done in the House?

CHAIR: No, apparently not.

MR. LANGDON: Okay.

MS JONES: That is the Finance Estimates, is it?

CHAIR: The schedule I have says, Finance and Public Service Commission. That is all it says.

Thank you, minister. Thank you staff. I appreciate your time.

MR. FORSEY: Nine-thirty, sir, you said?

CHAIR: Nine o'clock next Monday morning. You have to set your alarm a little bit earlier, Clayton.

On motion, Committee adjourned.