Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Kevin Parsons, MHA for Cape St. Francis, replaces for John Dinn, MHA for Kilbride.

The Committee met at 6:15 p.m. in the Assembly Chamber.

MR. FORSEY: Good evening, everyone. Welcome.

Our first order of business, we have a Vice-Chair from last year but we have to elect a Chair, so we will call for nominations for a Chair. Elizabeth, is that right?

CLERK (Ms Murphy): Yes.

MR. FORSEY: Mr. Butler does this.

Mr. Butler.

MR. BUTLER: We have to elect a Vice-Chair, so the floor is open. Do we have any nominations for – I am sorry - a Chairperson?

MR. BUCKINGHAM: I nominate Clayton Forsey.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Buckingham nominates Mr. Forsey.

Do we have a seconder for that motion?

We have three seconders. I am going to take the first hand I saw go up, which was Mr. Parsons.

There is a motion that Mr. Forsey would be our Chairperson for this Committee.

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. BUTLER: All those against, ‘nay'.

The motion is carried.

CHAIR (Forsey): Thank you, Roland.

The next order of business is to welcome everyone, the minister and his department, and our representatives from each party. What we will do now, I guess, starting down here on the end, we will have each person over here introduce themselves, please.

MR. MORGAN: Ivan Morgan, Researcher with the NDP Caucus.

MS MICHAEL: Lorraine Michael, the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS ELLIOTT-TEMPLETON: Vanessa Elliott-Templeton, Researcher, Opposition Office.

MR. BUTLER: Roland Butler, District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUCKINGHAM: Ed Buckingham, St. John's East.

MR. POLLARD: Kevin Pollard, MHA, Baie Verte-Springdale.

MR. LODER: Terry Loder, Bay of Islands.

MR. KEVIN PARSONS: Kevin Parsons, Cape St. Francis.

CHAIR: Clayton Forsey, MHA for the District of Exploits, and Chair.

That is our Committee.

Normally in the procedures there is usually fifteen minutes for the minister to make his opening remarks and introduce his staff. For questions you will get fifteen minutes to respond, if you need fifteen minutes, and probably you can go a little bit longer, depending.

I would like to thank the minister and his department officials for coming here this evening and enlightening us on his department. Minister, do you want to introduce yourself and your –

MR. O'BRIEN: Certainly, Mr. Chair, it is a pleasure, as it is every year, to appear before the Government Services Committee in regard to going through our Estimates and answering any questions that they may have in regard to the everyday operation of my department.

Before I actually make some remarks in regard to my department, I would like to have each one of my staff, starting at my immediate left, so everybody knows who everybody is in the room.

MR. NORMAN: David Norman, Deputy Minister.

MR. CAHILL: Larry Cahill, GPA.

MS DUNPHY: Kim Dunphy, Assistant Deputy Minister, Occupational Health and Safety Branch.

MR. MORRIS: Winston Morris, Assistant Deputy Minister, Consumer and Commercial Affairs.

MS KELLAND: Donna Kelland, Assistant Deputy Minister for Government Services Branch.

MS COLEMAN-SADD: Vanessa Coleman-Sadd, Communications Director.

MS NORMAN: Paula Norman, Executive Assistant.

MR. JONES: Scott Jones, Director of Financial Operations.

MR. O'BRIEN: All right, I think everybody in the room is familiar with my department. It is purely a service-driven department. It also regulates and enforces some of the legislation that comes under my department, which is about 150-odd pieces of legislation that is contained within the Department of Government Services, governing a lot of aspects of the people's lives in Newfoundland and Labrador and also in regard to the business world.

We are purely driven by serving the people of Newfoundland and Labrador on a daily basis. We like to say at some time we touch their lives from birth to death in some aspects. Some we touch more than once; sometimes we only touch them twice. Most people we touch more than that number during their lifetime.

We have an operating budget within the Department of Government Services of $41,969,000. As well contained in that number, is about another $2.2 million for the normal operations of the Government Purchasing Agency.

Under the department we have a number of divisions which service the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, one being the Motor Registration Division, which governs personal licences, motor vehicle registrations and the like. Then we move into Vital Statistics, where we have your foundation documents, birth certificates and everything else up to death certificates.

We have the Human Resource Management sector which we provide human resource support, not only to ourselves but we have a total of eight departments across government.

We also have a Consumer Affairs Division which we mediate, I guess, consumer complaints and landlord-tenant type complaints and also the governance of lotteries. We have the Financial Services Division contained within that division. We regulate insurance. We also regulate securities and other banking type processes. We also have pension regulations contained in that division as well.

Then we have the commercial registration of deeds and companies and personal registrations. Also, the Queen's Printer which provides printing services to all of the departments of government. Then, last but not least, we have the Occupational Health and Safety Division which is very, very important as we grow the economy in Newfoundland and Labrador. Then, as well, I am responsible for the Government Purchasing Agency which really governs procurement across all government department and also government-funded bodies.

We endeavour to provide the best service we possibly can to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador; we try to make it as pleasant an experience as possible, and we try to streamline it. We have made various changes within the Department of Government Services on an operational level and also in regard to location level. We have just recently opened a new Commercial Registration Division on Elizabeth, which has been a long time coming. It was well needed, and I will say here up front that it was not because of any complaints or any issues in regard to where they were located; it is just that we could not provide the service and the level of service that we wanted to provide to the industry and to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, so we relocated to Elizabeth and now we have a very modern operation and building. Certainly, we do provide a much more streamlined service to anyone who needs that type of service.

We have also made some changes this year, the past year, in the Clarenville area. We have consolidated our Government Services with Motor Registration there in a central location in the centre of town. They were located in a kind of nondescript place in Clarenville, not conducive to traffic loads and that kind of thing, so we relocated them and also it gives them a one window of business when they come to take any service that they would need in that particular area.

We have also relocated Marystown. We have had a new office there, which we opened only about a week ago, and we consolidated service there from Grand Bank into Marystown. We have increased our staff there by one, which gives us a better overall service on a daily basis, so we have no downtime now in that area and we provide a better service.

We are in the process of consolidating our services, Motor Registration and Government Services, in Grand Falls-Windsor. We should be opening within the next short period of time, a month or so or whatever, in there, which will be better for the people of that region as well. We are also in the process of relocating in Corner Brook. That renovation is ongoing, but we should open our doors to the public in that location hopefully within the next number of months, and again provide a better service.

We have also, in this budget, made the teleservice centre permanent, as a permanent program. It has been hailed by the people of Newfoundland and Labrador as an absolutely fabulous service, and has been mentioned on the Open Lines and talk shows and that kind of stuff as being an excellent service. The person now phoning will get a live person, they can explore all the issues surrounding the service that they are trying to obtain from Motor Registration, and our people help them make sure that they have all the forms and whatever else they need to complete the transaction in their hands, in person, before they come to avail of that service anywhere in Newfoundland and Labrador. These positions have also been made permanent, so we are looking forward to that. I think there are seven positions that were made permanent in this budget.

We look forward to actually providing a better service. I will say that we also endeavour at all times to provide the best service that we possibly can to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, but also we try to maximize our dollars, because we are a revenue generator for government as well in about $120 million worth into the Provincial Treasury. We take that and really administer it professionally, and we want to get the best bang for our dollar and make sure that the people of Newfoundland and Labrador are well served and we do not waste the taxpayers' dollars.

With that, Mr. Chair, I think that gives an overview of my department and what we do on a daily basis. Now I will leave it up to the Committee itself if they have any questions.

CHAIR: Okay.

Thank you, Minister.

Before we get into the questions, I will now call for the subhead.

CLERK: 1.1.01.

CHAIR: 1.1.01.

Shall 1.1.01 carry?

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, ‘nay'.

On motion, subhead 1.1.01 carried.

CHAIR: It would be a good idea - it is important, when you are responding or asking questions, to maybe introduce yourself each time, especially more so maybe when you are responding to questions, because the mikes are on and we will know who is asking or who is responding to the questions.

If the minister and his staff are ready, we will ask –

MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I want to welcome you and your staff here this evening. I do have a few questions and some of them are probably follow-ups from last year. You noted some of them a little while ago.

I remember last year, Minister, we were told the department had engaged in discussions regarding replacement of the Motor Registration computer system. I think it had to do mainly with the drivers without insurance. At that time I know you stated you were working with the Insurance Bureau of Canada, working with the police forces and enforcement officers. Some items had taken place already on the commercial side and you were evaluating from a cost-effective point. I was wondering, could you provide an update on that since May of 2009?

MR. O'BRIEN: It is certainly an ongoing project. It is a very, very costly project. Our system is outdated, and I do not mind saying that. It is workable, but some of the applications that we would want to provide, not only to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador but also to our policing forces across the Island as well, we cannot under the current program, the current software package that we have.

We have been consulting with other jurisdictions, certainly Nova Scotia being the primary, and we are moving forward in trying to really knock down the cost to make sure that we do it right the first time, because you are not talking just pennies; we are talking about millions of dollars here, anywhere between maybe $14 million to probably an $18 million to $20 million investment.

As the Minister Responsible for Government Services and Motor Registration, I feel that we have to take our time, make sure that we do it right, and make sure that we do not have any glitches in regard to the system that we eventually purchase. Really, it is an ongoing project. We hope to bring it forward within the next budget or so to get some funding, move it along and make sure that we get what we need in place, in place.

MR. BUTLER: I know the ADM last year mentioned that discussions had already started with OCIO, and I guess that is a part of the transaction you are dealing with now.

MR. O'BRIEN: That is certainly a part of it as well. They are well aware of the need in the OCIO. They certainly support our need. They recognize our need and they rank our need as one of a high priority. Again, we have so many dollars to spend across all departments within government. So, we are there and we will continue to consult and we will continue to research until we make sure that we have the best system we can possibly buy for the proper dollars that we are willing to pay.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you.

Like you said, you knew this one was coming: winter tires. My question is, Minister, not with regard to if you are going to enforce mandatory winter tires; that has come up many times. I am just wondering - because I know you said you still had an open mind on it - have you obtained all the information that you can get and be able to say that all-season tires are just as good as winter tires? I know last winter you said: I advise everyone to put their snow tires on now with the studs in them when we have a snowstorm.

Having said that, I know there was a study done and I was wondering, has that been released or can you get a copy of that study with regard to how the feelings are on the issue here in the Province? I think that is what the study was.

MR. O'BRIEN: Certainly, we can release any information that we have. Yes, I agree with the hon. member that I did have an open mind. I do not have as much of an open mind as I used to have, I will be honest with you.

When I studied and reviewed the data that was provided to me, the survey that we had done found that, I think, if I remember right, 80-odd per cent of the travelling public in Newfoundland and Labrador actually install winter tires now. I have heard many, many times before I was elected in 2003 that government regulates people to death. You do not have to regulate them to death; you can actually communicate and educate the public on the need for winter tires.

I know that in some cases some of the all-season tires are rated just as good as winter tires; but, as I said in the House of Assembly here on my feet, and also I said in regard to any immediate coverage, I have three vehicles, and three vehicles with four winter tires installed every year. So, I encourage the public to do the same, but when I regulate, I guess, or consider regulating within the department, I have to consider the effect that regulation will have. If that is only going to change 1 per cent or 0.01 per cent, whatever it may be, well I very well may be able to do that in regard to communicating it to the public in every avenue that I can.

So, I will take that view at this particular time. The information coming out of Quebec is very, very slow. I do not think, in my mind - and this is my own opinion and my own opinion only; it is not based on any given study or data or whatever - that they did not have the desired effect. It did not show any changes in regard to some of the accidents and that kind of stuff that they thought it would have.

Anyway, that is forthcoming. They have not provided it, not to my knowledge. As of yet they have not provided it, so we can only base it on our own survey that there are 80-odd per cent of the travelling public out there right now who install winter tires on their own.

It comes to the point: Would we be really over regulating? I think at that point in time we would be. I intend to communicate as much as possible the need, and not only the need but if you are out there travelling, even though there is a question with regard to how safe you would be, I also have to communicate to them that just because they have winter tires on does not mean they are safe.

MR. BUTLER: My next question, Minister, has to do with an update on the AG's report. It had to do with the question he asked, I think: Has the department reviewed policies covering this area with the Department of Health and Community Services to ensure inspectors do not allow food premises to remain open where policy states they should be closed?

I know the department did come back and say they were reviewing the closure policy and guidelines. I was just wondering, that recommendation now, has that been taken care of or is that still under review to some degree?

MR. O'BRIEN: We have made certain changes in the reporting process within the Department of Government Services based on the Auditor General's comments. At this hearing here in regard to where we find ourselves tonight, I also have to say that in some ways I agree and I welcome the thoughts of the Auditor General.

He and his department - and it is a he at this point in time; if it were a she I would be saying she - the department actually takes an overall view. They do not take things into account that we take into account, that the actual violation might be a high-risk violation but the high-risk violation was addressed and corrected within an hour or two, so why close down a place of business with a regulation for a day, or whatever might be involved there, when you could certainly address the issue within the hour or two and then have the premises stay open?

You have to support business. You have to have flexibility in regard to your inspection and enforcement processes and keep these kinds of things in mind, taking into account as well the safety of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, which is the utmost in our minds.

So, we have professional people out there in the field who make decisions on a daily basis. I think they make good decisions, because we do not hear of any kind of fatalities related to environmental issues or whatnot, because the people of Newfoundland and Labrador are provided some of the best, in many areas, the best and most stringent inspection processes than what you would find across the nation.

With that, we take the Auditor General's comments seriously. We made some adjustments with regard to some of the reporting processes, but as well we have to make decisions based on flexibility and the safety of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

MR. BUTLER: ATV regulations, Minister - I know it was approximately a couple of years ago now that this was supposed to be put in place - I was wondering if we will see new legislation coming forward in this sitting of the House and, if so, or even if not, has any consultation taken place with the general public on that issue?

MR. O'BRIEN: No consultations as such, we have not. I have spoken to many constituents across Newfoundland and Labrador in regard to ATV use and regulations thereof. There are certain issues which myself and you have talked about, certain things to be taken into account in regard to those regulations, and then we have to work with the manufacturers.

As well, we have done a lot of research on this issue. It is not an easy thing to correct without taking on certain liabilities of government and whatnot because of the wording of some of the stickers that the manufacturers have on their pieces of equipment. You cannot write legislation or regulations to be prescriptive and to address each and every issue that you have out there. You have to have a certain amount of flexibility with the regulations, keeping in mind again the safety of the public. You have to keep that in mind when you go through with this.

We have no legislation yet. We are still researching the issue, and we are trying to work with the manufacturers and the industry itself to come up with a viable solution to the issue that you have referenced.

MR. BUTLER: With regard to here in the Province, I think we have over 200 boil orders in place. I was just wondering what concerns, if any, have been relayed to your department by the environmental health officers, and are these boil orders something that you and your department consider to be potentially detrimental to the public, or is it just for some minor reasons that they do have those boil orders?

MR. O'BRIEN: We take all boil orders and all such things very, very seriously, and I think any government would. One of the things that we hold dear to our hearts and is very important is to have safe drinking water.

I know that the Department of Environment and Conservation brought in a program two years ago in regard to addressing that issue in some of the remote and rural areas of Newfoundland and Labrador, in regard to a system being installed that was offered. I think that actual program has been funded again under the current budget.

We do our inspections. Environmental health officers do them; they do them professionally. If there is a boil order that is warranted for whatever reason, then certainly it is levied. We have to keep the people of Newfoundland and Labrador safe. I think councils and LSDs understand that, but we will continue to endeavour to provide safe drinking water to the public whichever way we possibly can.

MR. BUTLER: Since your department - or I think your department - performs annual inspections of schools as part of their regular environmental health and inspections program, I am wondering how many inspections have taken place in the last twelve months, and can a list of those schools be provided? Maybe it is already made public; I do not know.

MR. O'BRIEN: It can be made public. As a matter of fact, I think it is public, if I could say that; it is obtainable. Each and every school, to my knowledge, is inspected every year, and to this date every one of them has been inspected.

We do have a much more stringent inspection process now, as we have had in the past, and we try to train as well, which is very, very important. Our officers try to train existing staff in regard to what they should be looking for. Instead of just passing over a tile that is stained in the ceiling or whatever, instead of just passing that over and just replacing it, they are asking themselves: How did that stain happen? Where did it come from? That is the kind of thing that our training officers do. They not only inspect; they actually communicate and they actually educate, so that is a good thing.

We have moved from there in the last five or six years in regard to that. Here, and anywhere that I go, I cannot say enough about my staff in Government Services. As a minister, I am very proud of their professional work each and every day across Newfoundland and Labrador for the public.

MR. BUTLER: I understand, in addition to I think it is thirty-five permanent environmental health officers, I believe there were two temporary positions that were filled for a short period, I think, in 2009-2010 and a part of 2010-2011. In my understanding it was to address the overall workload issues in two regions. I was wondering what regions they were, and what responsibilities did those two new positions have? Was it just with the schools or would they have been, say, thirty-seven permanent environmental health officers?

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, I am going to speak to that first, Roland. I think - and I may be corrected and I do not think I will have to be corrected but I am open for correction - they were in the Avalon area. It was all due to a growing economy, and workloads and whatnot. We do have, I believe, one in Western as well, but we have increased our staff in that area this year. We are in the recruitment process. We have two extra people in this year's budget, I believe. I will have a quick, quick look. I believe it is three, actually.

We have a growing economy. We have growth areas in the Avalon, Clarenville, Gander, Grand Falls-Windsor especially, Corner Brook, so workloads vary from year to year. Our officers are out there at any given time, any place, providing that service. So, when we see that we need adjustments then we try to find monies to put into temporary, but then when we reassess and also see that we actually need it on a permanent basis, then it is up to me, as the minister, to go looking for new positions, which I have this year.

MR. BUTLER: I know my colleague is supposed to start now, but just for me to finish on this, just to come back for a second, my hon. colleague can have her time on the other end.

They were permanent positions were they, those two that I referenced, or did they just come on temporary?

MR. O'BRIEN: Temporary.

MR. BUTLER: Okay.

CHAIR: Mr. Butler will take a little break. We will come back to Mr. Butler, I am sure.

Ms Michael.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

A lot of my questions have been asked already by Mr. Butler, so I will not be repeating them, but just a couple of additional questions.

With regard to the winter tires, I am wondering, do the enforcement agencies keep a record of when there are accidents in winter, whether or not the car in the accident, especially the one who caused it, had winter tires on?

MR. O'BRIEN: Not specifically we do not, but in the meantime it is captured in a certain percentage. That percentage is somewhere - if I might be correct and I can clarify tomorrow Lorraine - down around the 3 per cent area. That is very, very, very low that is attributed to anything pertaining to tires or anything else like that. It is so low it is just insignificant, to be honest with you.

MS MICHAEL: I would be glad to have it, just to have it.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, I will get that for you. If I can, I will provide it in the House tomorrow to you.

MS MICHAEL: Sure, that will be fine, Kevin. That will be great.

Again, with regard to occupational health and safety regulations, I think the department on January 1 began administering a new set of regulations.

MR. O'BRIEN: Actually, in September.

MS MICHAEL: September, was it?

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes.

MS MICHAEL: Can you give us an idea of what the department has encountered? Has there been resistance or is the compliance going well? Just to give us a sense of what is going on.

MR. O'BRIEN: I will just reference an article in The Telegram on the weekend by Lana Payne that actually gave some very, very good comments in regard to my department and the new occupational health and safety regulations. She had some very, very good comments. It is well-received by the Federation of Labour, as Lana indicated, and also very well-received by the industry. It took a lot of work, there were a lot of consultations; there was a lot of industry participation.

Through that process, even though it took a fair bit of time to do, once we announced those regulations in August of 2009, enforcement started in September of 2009 with a softened enforcement because we wanted to really educate not only the employers but also the employees in regard to those regulations. Then we went to a hard enforcement as of January 1. These were very, very important. I was very proud of them, to be honest with you. Again, you can bring in as many regulations as you can, but if you do not communicate it and you do not educate that it is not acceptable to go on a roof without fall protection equipment and whatnot, well then your regulations are lost.

Again, as a department, and I as the minister responsible, have tried to educate and communicate that and will continue to do it. They are probably the best in the country, actually, right now.

MS MICHAEL: Okay, thank you.

No, I am asking this question, and I cannot believe that it was not asked by Roland with regard to –

MR. O'BRIEN: He is leaving it until last.

MS MICHAEL: - school bus inspection. How did you miss that one, Roland?

MR. BUTLER: It is there somewhere.

MS MICHAEL: Okay. Could we get an update on the school bus inspection program?

MR. O'BRIEN: Well, again, we have one of the best, most stringent inspection processes in the country. We inspect our buses more often and acutely, with a fine-tooth comb when we go through these. We do not have - the Auditor General referenced that we had a number of buses that were pulled from service but that tells me actually our process is working. We are getting ahead of it. We do not wait for something to happen.

If we inspect a bus and we see the brakes might need to be replaced sixty days down the road, well, we will pull that bus now. We will not wait for sixty days, or say to them: Well boys, listen, your brakes might last for another sixty days so get them replaced within that sixty days. We will pull that bus. So our system is working.

We are always trying as well to endeavour to look at other jurisdictions to look at things that we might do in regard to school bus safety. You must remember, too, that our inspectors, my department, we inspect on equipment and mechanical issues. We do not do total inspections, because if we got down to the actual specs of a bus we would never get a bus on the road. The simple reason is that particular spec on a bus is probably about an inch-and-a-half thick and some of them have nothing to do with safety whatsoever. We inspect as to mechanical equipment to make sure that they are safe. We are not seeing buses that are in accidents because of mechanical problems. We are not seeing students being injured with regard to equipment issues or lack of equipment, so our system is working.

Lorraine, we are always trying to endeavour to make sure that inspection process is the best, better than any in the country, and we will continue to do that. The safety of the children and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador is not only the utmost and most important thing in regard to my mind and government but I am sure it is yours as well, and that is why you are asking the question and I appreciate that. I do not mind it, not a bit in the least. We will continue to inspect, and inspect as often as we possibly can.

MS MICHAEL: I am just wondering, the number of buses having to be pulled off the road, has that number gone down at all because of the intensity of inspections?

MR. O'BRIEN: I am going to have to ask one of my officials if that has happened.

MS MICHAEL: Okay.

MR. O'BRIEN: As soon as I can get the number I will share it with you here in the House, if that is okay?

MS MICHAEL: Okay. That will be fine, yes.

You mentioned the Auditor General back in 2008; one of the things he did say at the time was that there were not enough surprise inspections. Has that number gone up?

MR. O'BRIEN: We have increased those, yes, we have.

MS MICHAEL: Great, okay.

So the other number then, it would be good to have.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you.

I think that is all of the questions I have; because, as I said, most of the ones Roland asked I had down as questions, but I do have some line questions. I could start some of those. I am not going line by line, don't worry, but ones that stand out I would like to raise.

MR. O'BRIEN: No, okay.

MS MICHAEL: The first one is 1.2.01., and it is the Salaries line, 01. I notice that we have a difference between this year's budget and the revised budget of last year of $103,100. I am not used to seeing the salary line go down rather than up, so I was just curious as to why that is the case.

MR. O'BRIEN: Just to be clear, you said 1.2.01.?

MS MICHAEL: 01.

MR. O'BRIEN: Salaries 01., right?

MS MICHAEL: Then 01. Salaries, yes.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes. It is all due to vacant positions.

MS MICHAEL: Right.

MR. O'BRIEN: It is hard to recruit positions, because we have some very specific requirements within the Department of Government Services, so that is always an issue. We have turnover, retirements, that kind of stuff. We had a number of retirements. That all is reflected in that amount, but right now we should be fully staffed by May 3 again.

MS MICHAEL: Okay, and that does bring you up then closer to last year's budget?

MR. O'BRIEN: That is correct.

MS MICHAEL: Okay, great.

Under the same 1.2.01., but under the Revenue 02., the provincial revenue, what happened between the budget of 2009 and the revision of 2009? It looks like something special happened there, because it is a $564,800 infusion above the budget.

MR. O'BRIEN: You are saying 1.1.01., Lorraine?

MS MICHAEL: 1.2.01., and then 02. the Revenue.

MR. O'BRIEN: Are you talking about a variance of about $9,000?

MS MICHAEL: No, $564,800. It is 1.2.01., Executive Support, and then 02. the Revenue.

MR. O'BRIEN: Okay, I have you there. I was on the wrong page.

That is all pertaining to delays in receiving the contributions that we recover from Workplace Health, Safety and Compensation Commission. Sometimes it is all a timely thing in regard to those transfers. It would appear, because of the March 31 cut off date, that we probably received a payment shortly afterwards.

MS MICHAEL: Okay.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes.

MS MICHAEL: That would have been for the year before, because it is $564,000 over what you expected to get.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes.

MS MICHAEL: It would have been overpayments from the year before. Would this mean that now you are sort of up to date with money that you have been expecting to come in, because you are back to the $589,000?

MR. O'BRIEN: That is correct. We will not know until the end of the year.

MS MICHAEL: Oh, okay.

MR. O'BRIEN: Because that is a moving kind of target.

MS MICHAEL: All right, it is not something you can anticipate –

MR. O'BRIEN: (Inaudible) because we are depending on it.

MS MICHAEL: - ahead of time.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, absolutely.

MS MICHAEL: That is fine, okay. That is why it is so much off. It is not that it came from the year before; it is that you did not know that this would be what it would be.

MR. O'BRIEN: We did not; that is correct.

MS MICHAEL: You can only take a guess at it.

MR. O'BRIEN: That is correct.

MS MICHAEL: Okay, good enough.

2.1.02. Financial Services Regulation. Again, it is 01. Salaries under that.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes. That year we had twenty-six pay periods as compared to twenty-seven pay periods that happened.

MS MICHAEL: Oh, right, of course.

MR. O'BRIEN: That only happens once every twelve years or so.

MS MICHAEL: That is right. Do you know what? I forgot about that. Last year it was because we had the twenty-seven; now we are back to the twenty-six.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, that is right. Now we are gone back, absolutely.

MS MICHAEL: Okay, there may be a few other questions I do not have to ask. I totally forgot about that.

MR. O'BRIEN: I have been asked to keep the twenty-seven, but it is not in my control.

MS MICHAEL: That is right, exactly.

No, last year we knew that and did not ask the questions. This year I forgot that we are back in the other regime now, twenty-six weeks. It is going to be gone down, so I could forget the next one in that case.

Under 2.1.03., which is Commercial Registrations, and the line is 06. Purchased Services, the budget went up significantly last year from the budget to the revision. There was a difference there of $74,500 and we are up higher again this year. Why is that line going up?

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, absolutely. That is all Moneris fees.

MS MICHAEL: Pardon?

MR. O'BRIEN: Moneris fees. Those are the fees that we have to pay: credit cards, debit cards.

MS MICHAEL: Right.

MR. O'BRIEN: We are seeing an increase in our IT services. Also, we suspect that this year coming there will be an increase in regard to those fees that a credit card or a debit card would levy on government or private industry.

MS MICHAEL: Right. We are learning that electronic light is fairly expensive, I think; that is what we are starting to learn in today's reality.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, that is right.

MS MICHAEL: Then, under 3.1.01., the next major head, line 07., there seemed to be a major expenditure in equipment of some kind because the Budget was $13,000 but the difference is $163, 200.

MR. O'BRIEN: That is correct, yes. This is all to do with some equipment that we bought for the bus safety program, such as brake meters. We have some computer laptops that we use in the field now and some ramps that make for easy inspection processes.

MS MICHAEL: Okay, thank you.

I am not going to ask any salary ones because I am going to assume that they all have to do with the twenty-six, and looking at them they do.

Under 3.1.03., Motor Vehicle Registration, line 06. Purchased Services, again there is a big difference between what was budgeted. The revision went down and then we are up about $300,000.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, the same answer as the last. It is all to do with Moneris fees. We can only budget what we think a person would avail of that service and IT setting. We also, again, have - there are indications that there will be an increase in the Moneris fees from the particular industry itself, and we also see now another increase with regard to people availing of that IT service. So, it is a shot in the dark actually at times.

MS MICHAEL: Right. Thank you.

3.3.02. Queen's Printer, and then it is 02. the Revenue line, the revision was significant, $155,000. Why did you expect $325,000 and then it was down as low as $170,000?

MR. O'BRIEN: Again, as we develop - there are a lot of things available online now. People can download it themselves, so that we do not have to print as much. They can get it and access it through the Internet, so that $165,000 variance reflects that. We just did not have as many people wanting items and things printed through the Queen's Printer any more.

MS MICHAEL: You are still aiming for $325,000 this year again; just leave it there for awhile?

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, we are going to do a review, actually, this year of the Queen's Printer in regard to the services they provide and have a really good look at it this year coming. So, next year our budget may very well reflect what we see in regard to what various departments and government agencies avail of those printing services.

MS MICHAEL: Right. Thank you very much.

This probably will be my last one. Under 4.1.01., the Occupational Health and Safety Inspections, here the difference between the budget and the revision - there are some significant differences all the way down the line there. For example, in Salaries the difference between this year's budget and the revised budget is $877,900.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, it is a big number.

MS MICHAEL: That is a big number, and then 03. – I will just name all of them and then maybe you can go through all of them because it is almost every line; 02. is not. Line 03. is the Transportation and Communications, $64,100, it is not as much; the Supplies, $28,800; Professional Services, $114,000, that is another big one; Purchased Services, $89,000. They are the significant ones. Maybe you could speak to it because it seems to be a big switch there, a fair bit more money being spent than has been, $1,235,300 actually in total.

MR. O'BRIEN: Probably we can go to 4.1.01.01. in Salaries first because there is $877,900 difference. There is some variance in regard to the 4 per cent increase that we had in the twenty-seven paydays as compared to the twenty-six. Also, we had a number of vacant positions. We had some delayed recruiting issues in 2009-2010. We had some overtime and other wage-salary related expenditures that were less than anticipated.

As well, we have posted - as a matter of fact right now, in regard to our inspection people, the OHS inspection people, we probably only have one or two more positions left to fill. As we grow the economy, a lot of our positions, we fill them. They are hard to retain because the private industry is always biting at your heels in regard to those types of positions. They are unique and they are needed in the industry. So, there is always that kind of a turnover right now. We are endeavouring to correct that, and make people want to stay with our OHS division and with government, but I am not going to sit here and tell you that it is not a challenge. It is.

We did have that variance last year. Hopefully, we do not anticipate having that kind of a variance in the upcoming year. As I said, we only have another couple of positions left to fill. There might be some clerical positions and that kind of stuff, and other positions that we might have to reclassify, but none of those are in the position of inspection processes where I am really concerned about. That is where my focus is, on the inspection side, not on the other side. I am not saying that we do not need them and we do not need to fill them, and we will, but we will move forward on that.

So, we do not anticipate having such a variance this year in next year's budget, if I am still the minister. My staff surely will be there and they will be working towards that. Do you want to go to –

MS MICHAEL: Line 03.

MR. O'BRIEN: Did you say 4.1.01.02., Benefits?

MS MICHAEL: Actually, that one is okay.

MR. O'BRIEN: That one is okay, correct?

MS MICHAEL: Yes. Line 03.

MR. O'BRIEN: Line 03., which is Transportation and Communications. We have been doing a fair number of teleconference type processes now which decreases the amount of travel, so we did not need that. That kind of varies from year to year as well. Last year we did not need as much travel within the division itself, so we had a savings of $64,100. That could very well change this year. As a matter of fact we could be over, but we try to maximize the dollars and get the best bang for the dollar we possibly can. One of those ways is to teleconference, if we possibly can.

MS MICHAEL: Right.

Line 05.

MR. O'BRIEN: Line 05. is down to Supplies. Certainly we would have savings in that area because it could be attributed just to the vacancies alone that we had, the number of vacancies up in the salary area.

MS MICHAEL: Actually, Kevin, 05. is Professional Services.

MR. O'BRIEN: You wanted Supplies. You jumped -

MS MICHAEL: I think Supplies are usually pretty straightforward.

MR. O'BRIEN: Okay, no problem.

We had a variance in Professional Services of $114,000. We did not need as much contractual services for accident investigations this year as in past. I am not saying that we would not avail of those services if we possibly needed, but hopefully we will never need them again. Hopefully this variance is what it is next year, or double, or whatever it can go to, because certainly I, as the minister responsible, do not want to be availing of contractual services for investigating accidents at all in Newfoundland and Labrador. That is where that came from, that we did not need them, so that is where you have that savings.

MS MICHAEL: Could you tell me when the department would be called in, with regard to investigating accidents?

MR. O'BRIEN: We investigate every accident, our officers do, but sometimes you need some expertise in regard to that particular accident. If I can bring it back in time, back in time in regard to the accident that happened out at the oil refinery a number of years ago, we needed a lot of contractual services there. Then you go out to the industry, bring them in, and that is what drives this number.

MS MICHAEL: Right.

MR. O'BRIEN: If we do not have that kind of an issue, we do not have to avail of those types of expertise on a contractual basis.

MS MICHAEL: Understood.

Line 06., Purchased Services, might be related.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes. Well, we have a decrease in expenditure in this in regard to printing, vehicle repairs, and other services this year. Our vehicles are in fairly good shape, and we did not need as much printing.

MS MICHAEL: Okay.

I think that is it for me. Mr. Chair?

CHAIR: Are you finished with the line questions?

MS MICHAEL: If I have missed something (inaudible) -

CHAIR: Okay, so you are finished with the line questions. We can come back if you have missed one, maybe.

MS MICHAEL: Yes.

CHAIR: We can go back to - Roland, do you have a couple of more?

MR. BUTLER: Yes, Sir, I have a few more questions.

Minister, before I go into the questions, I want to go back to the winter tires and all-season and just tell you an incident that happened to me when I went up on the Northern Peninsula to the by-election.

I have two sets of tires; I have studded tires, plus I have a half decent set of all-seasons. So, I got the call and I was going up there. I was half afraid to go with my all-seasons I had because they were not new. I went and bought a new set and went as far as Deer Lake, and when I was going up through the park and getting up in the hills with the new all-seasons, not only I but many of us could not move. We had to stay there.

The odd fellow came along with their winter tires - they did not have their studded tires on because they were not allowed to have them on – and there was no comparison to how the guys went up with the snow tires on that given day versus what I was with the new all-seasons. The disappointing part, when I got up to the top of the hill, the minister comes on the radio and says you can put on your studded tires today.

MR. O'BRIEN: You should have called me.

MR. BUTLER: I was 500 kilometres away; I could not get back and get them.

MR. O'BRIEN: Don't you have my cellphone number?

MR. BUTLER: There is quite a difference, Minister. I understand where you are coming from. I am not arguing, or anything like that -

MR. O'BRIEN: No.

MR. BUTLER: - but there is quite a difference in winter tires and all-season tires.

MR. O'BRIEN: I am certainly not here to argue that point, as well, other than I will say that there are variances in regard to the type of all-season, because all all-seasons are not the same. It depends on the quality; it depends on a lot of variances.

MR. BUTLER: Yes.

MR. O'BRIEN: I stand on it that 80-odd per cent of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador have winter tires on now, so what are you regulating really? You are causing senior citizens who are sitting home, who only use their vehicle once a week, once every two weeks, once every month, whatever it may be, to incur an expense just to go to the grocery store sometimes. Sometimes you have to take that into account as well when you make a decision.

So, the 80-odd per cent convince me that we are not ready for – but, if I am still the minister and I see the need for regulation then I will open my mind again.

MR. BUTLER: Under the Summary of 2010-2011, Salary Funding by Activity – on the sheet that I have here it is page 29, but where it is in the main booklet I do not know - I want to reference that one, as well as page 38 where it says Permanent Staff Complement. It shows the departmental total.

MR. O'BRIEN: Okay.

MR. BUTLER: Under the Temporary & Other Employees, right at the bottom of the list is each division in your department, it says at the bottom the total is $4,430,300. That is up $1.254 million from last year. I am wondering, is that to cover off on the increase of the eleven positions? I think it is 504 positions listed on page 38, and I think that is up eleven positions from last year. So that is what that would be, I guess; that increase in the salary there would be for those eleven positions?

MR. O'BRIEN: That would be part of that, for sure, and certainly we have temporary positions in the department on an ongoing basis. Sometimes we fill temporary positions to fill a need.

MR. BUTLER: Yes.

MR. O'BRIEN: So that is all lumped in there, if that is right in what I am saying?

OFFICIAL: Yes.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, that is where it is.

MR. BUTLER: How many temporary positions would you have, do you think, just approximately?

MR. O'BRIEN: He is asking for a number. Would it be higher than eleven?

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible).

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, it would be. That is what I see. I can get you that number, Roland.

MR. BUTLER: Okay.

MR. O'BRIEN: I think it is actually higher than eleven, in reflection of the need. It could be positions that we need for a specific need that is not reflected there in the eleven. They are probably one-year temporary positions, and sometimes we have temporary positions for two months, three months, whatever it may be, in regard to the inspection process or whatever we may need. So, it is probably a little higher than the eleven, but it is only just to address a specific issue and a specific need at a specific time.

MR. BUTLER: Yes.

The enhanced inspections process, my understanding is they completed eighty-seven of the Province's schools under the enhancement inspection process. I was wondering if the objectives of this process successfully identified the main conditions which might lead to air quality issues. I think that program is finished now, is it?

MR. O'BRIEN: No, that program is still continuing.

MR. BUTLER: It is still ongoing, is it?

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, we have a number of schools that are going to be inspected this year under that program but, more importantly, as I said earlier in my remarks in regard to that inspection process, the emphasis that I have anyway, and the most important, is the educational piece to the actual employees who are in our schools in regard to the maintenance staff, that they now know what to look for in regard to that. Then they report them and the particular school board addresses those issues in regard to anything that has to happen. They look for things. They do not just pass things over and just replace the tile any more. They actually report that. They wonder where the actual stain came from and the water might have come from.

So we have that process in place and we will continue under our programming, depending on next year in regard to our budgets and that enhanced inspection program. The most important part of that is to educate the actual existing staff, the maintenance workers who are within the particular schools right across Newfoundland and Labrador.

MR. BUTLER: Do you ever get any requests from the school boards or the school districts to go in and do inspections over and above or sooner than you would do your annual inspections?

MR. O'BRIEN: No. We have inspected, as I said earlier, every school in the Province. We do it in regard to our own schedule. Not to my knowledge - I have been here now around three years and I do not think we have been specifically requested to inspect any given school. They identify problems now on a go-forward basis, they report them through the proper processes and protocols back to the school boards, and then they have to address these issues and rank them in regard to importance.

I think the system is working as well. We have some old schools out there. We all know about that, and addressing these problems. You can only invest so much in infrastructure every year, but we are doing some wonderful work out there in replacing schools, building new schools, renovating schools. In that process we are certainly addressing air quality issues as well.

MR. BUTLER: We know, Minister, over the last year or year-and-a-half with regard to the TODS program that there was an awful upheaval about people's signs coming down. I am just wondering if you can give us an update on what we can expect this year. I know there are still some signs up, and they are legal signs, but when do you see the full TODS program being implemented in the Province?

MR. O'BRIEN: The whole TODS program will take another couple of years to really implement. There have been - and I will be the first one to admit - some concerns out there. It has been endorsed by the industry itself; they recognize it. The travelling public recognize that signage system, and it works well. If it works well in Europe, if it works well down in the US and it works well in other jurisdictions, surely it will work here and certainly it will clean up a lot of our countryside and return it to the pristine nature that it should be in. We move through that.

We address issues on an individual basis. I interact with the industry, with the owners of businesses - I should not say on a daily basis - on a needs basis. I address the issues. As a matter of fact, I will meet with them personally, each and every one of them if I possibly can, or go to a region and review an area, and try to address the issues.

We have areas in Newfoundland and Labrador where there are issues in regard to the corridor space and that kind of thing in the regulations. I will go there and I will review that myself and see can I come with a solution to it. With that, we are working with the industry and I see it moving forward. I think it is good.

I see some big changes, Roland, and I am sure you have, in regard to your drive in the mornings from your district. The Trans-Canada, I think, looks a lot better than what it did before. We will move with the industry and try to be flexible and try to support them and make sure that they can grow their business, grow the economy; but, in turn, once we implement and once we decide on a system that is world known, renowned and proven, then certainly in time we have to move in that direction and implement it to its fullest. That is our intention.

MR. BUTLER: I had a meeting about two weeks ago with a gentleman from Trinity Bay and he does not have those painted signs. He has the ones with the legs on them, where you put the big lettering up on them and change them.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes.

MR. BUTLER: He was telling me that is a business he had ongoing. He told me that - I think he is trying to get in and meet with someone else in here. I do not know if it was your department or who. He had quite a few of those up and they were taken down, even on private property. I am not saying by your people. They were taken to a highway depot and buried in the ground. He got word from one of the workers at the depot that this is where your signs are. I was just wondering - now I am sure that is not a policy that government would want or entertain.

MR. O'BRIEN: No, absolutely not.

MR. BUTLER: If they are not legal, you come and get them and take them home with you, right?

MR. O'BRIEN: To be quite honest with you, I am not aware of that issue whatsoever.

MR. BUTLER: Okay.

MR. O'BRIEN: We do have flexibility under the regulations to address some of those issues, because we have some regulations that give us the opportunity for the use of those types of signs depending on the type of industry. Say, for instance, if a community were to have a festival at some time during the year, they can actually use one of those signs to advertise that particular festival for the period of time that they need, so we have flexibility under that.

In regard to the removal of those signs, because I would think they are actual metal, probably lit, or the ability to be lit, I do not know anything about that. If that particular constituent would want to call my department, call me personally, please encourage the person to do so and I will deal with it directly, or have my staff deal with it directly, to see if we can address the issue and come to a solution or whatever. We will certainly research it for you, and I will get back to you in the House as well.

MR. BUTLER: It is not my constituent. It would either be Mr. Peach or Ms Johnson, either one of those two.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes.

MR. BUTLER: He deals with a lot of businesses in my area. This is why he came to me, I suppose.

MR. O'BRIEN: Sure, and if you are talking to that particular person then I will –

MR. BUTLER: No doubt we will. He calls us every second or third day.

MR. O'BRIEN: You tell him to contact us and we will see what we can do.

MR. BUTLER: Yes.

The other one, Minister, I know last year I brought up marine vessel inspections. It is not something that your department would be involved in. Since then - I have to go back to your good old buddy again, now, the Auditor General. I took notice you love him just now.

MR. O'BRIEN: He is my buddy.

MR. BUTLER: He was more or less, in his report, saying he felt that maybe provincial inspections should be done with regard to safety. I was wondering if that has come to your department or if you had any dealings with that since he made those comments. I do not know if that was in this year's report or the updated report that he did a review on. He mentioned that there probably should be some.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes. That has not come to my department as such. As you know, we do not have any jurisdiction once they throw the ropes off.

MR. BUTLER: I know, yes. Transport Canada, right?

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, absolutely, it is Transport Canada. It still remains with Transport Canada and I do not think they have any desire or any – there is no movement to move that to the Province. It sits where it is, and that is where it is, with Transport Canada.

MR. BUTLER: Yes. In his comments, more or less, he suggested that the provincial inspections were necessary to determine whether safety standards beyond those set by Transport Canada were being met.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, but the issue with that is over and above – and I certainly welcome all the comments of the Auditor General but sometimes there is reality, and that reality is that we have no jurisdiction.

MR. BUTLER: Another issue that came up was the inspection and monitoring of radiation equipment. I think that is through your occupational health and safety inspectors and so on, right?

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, that is correct.

MR. BUTLER: I was just wondering if you can give us an update on that as –

MR. O'BRIEN: First off, I would like to say in regard to the Auditor General's comments - and I say again I welcome all his remarks but sometimes there is reality, I suppose, I will put it that way, in that we inspect radiation equipment, and we inspect on a yearly basis; but the issue he was talking about was actually the registration of that piece of equipment, when it was installed, in regard to being replaced by a newer, more updated piece of equipment, it was not actually taken out of inventory. The actual inspection piece was always carried forward by my people on a yearly basis. I sign off on their certificates nearly on a daily basis, and that is where that lies, Roland, that there is actually an inventory.

In the meantime, we are moving forward in regard to cleaning up that inventory issue, that we have it more updated, and hopefully, working with the authorities and the Department of Health and Community Services, as well, that we actually close that gap.

So, that is the issue. It was not a safety issue at all. We inspect; we make sure that the piece of equipment is installed properly. It is all inspected before it actually goes into service, that kind of stuff, but it had nothing to do with safety whatsoever. It has all to do with inventory issues.

MR. BUTLER: Yes.

With regard to Occupational Health and Safety - I know my colleague here asked about the regulations and so on - I am wondering, how often do you have visits to construction sites when they know you are not coming, type of thing, or are they made aware when you are coming, or do you have many visits to large companies and so on? I am wondering, how do you interact with workers' compensation on safety issues and things like that?

MR. O'BRIEN: First off, to the last part of your question, we react and integrate very well with the workers' compensation commission. We work hand in hand in regard to occupational health and safety and all the issues surrounding the safety of our workers in Newfoundland and Labrador. There are, overall, 35,000 work sites in Newfoundland and Labrador sitting today. They are inspected not on a weekly or monthly basis but as often as we possibly can. Some of them are unexpected; some of them are certainly scheduled, and that kind of stuff. It would be very, very hard to capture that data in regard to the numbers that are unexpected as compared to, but again we have one of the best regulatory and also the best inspection processes in Canada today. As a matter of fact, if you read the article there by Lana Payne on that kind of stuff, that is reflected in her comments.

MR. BUTLER: I think this is my last one because the one-liners I had I think my colleague covered them, or the ones I had to ask were explained by one or two that you did respond to.

MR. O'BRIEN: Sure.

MR. BUTLER: The last one is licensing of home inspectors, and I know this was brought up back some time ago. Some other jurisdictions are doing it, or in the process of doing it. I know there were people who were concerned, wondering if they were getting the real value when their homes were inspected and so on.

I was wondering, has the department considered implementing regulations for home inspectors? I know you said just now we are inspected to death. If so, if you have done that, what is the status of that? If not, might it be an initiative which the department would be considering in the future?

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, we consider everything. We are always, continually, looking at other jurisdictions. We have to see what they are doing, number one. Number two, is it effective? We have to analyze that as well before we would ever consider implementing it. As you know - and the amount of legislation that I have pushed through the House of Assembly - I am not averse to waiting for other jurisdictions, too, either. On this case here, we have to look at other jurisdictions in regard to that.

Right now, we do not inspect new construction of homes on the domestic side. We do have electrical inspections, which are the most important, but in regard to the contract and what a contractor would provide, we do not. I am not saying that we will not in the future, but we are certainly not considering any legislation to this date. We will just keep looking at the other jurisdictions and we will see where it goes from there.

MR. BUTLER: Okay.

That is it from me, Sir, as far as I know.

CHAIR: Thank you, Sir.

Lorraine.

MS MICHAEL: Thanks.

I just have one more line item. It is at the very end; it is section 5.1.01.05., Professional Services. There was a budgeted item last year of $225,000. It looks like whatever might have been included in that has fallen off the radar, because the revision is down to $46,100 and the estimates for this year are $25,000.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes. We needed that money last year because we had a consultant have a look at our procurement policy of the Public Tender Act.

MS MICHAEL: Which policy?

MR. O'BRIEN: Public Tender Act procurement.

MS MICHAEL: Oh, okay.

MR. O'BRIEN: Our procurement policies in regard to the Government Purchasing Agency. That piece of work was completed. Now we are looking at that report. I have it in my possession and we are considering some of the recommendations that are contained in that report in regard to any changes that we would make in regard to the Public Tender Act.

MS MICHAEL: The thing is, there is $200,000 you did not spend.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, we did not –

MS MICHAEL: You just did not need to do any more work; is that it?

MR. O'BRIEN: No, that is right. Yes.

MS MICHAEL: Okay.

That is it, then, for me.

CHAIR: Are there any more questions?

No more questions.

Okay. We will call for all the subheads.

CLERK: 1.1.01 to 5.1.01 inclusive.

CHAIR: Shall the total carry?

Carried.

On motion, Department of Government Services, total heads, carried.

CHAIR: Shall I report the Estimates of the Department of Government Services carried without amendment?

On motion, Estimates of the Department of Government Services carried without amendment.

CHAIR: Okay, before we adjourn, I would just like to say that our next Committee meeting will be on Tuesday, May 4, and that will be at 9:00 a.m. That would be Intergovernmental Affairs, and the Volunteer and Non-Profit Secretariat.

With that, I will ask for a motion to adjourn.

MR. LODER: So moved.

CHAIR: Moved by the Member for Bay of Islands.

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Carried.

Thank you, Minister, and your staff in your department, and to our Committee.

Thank you very much.

On motion, the Committee adjourned.