The Committee met at 6:00 p.m. in the House of Assembly.

CHAIR (Forsey): Okay, it looks like we have the red light. We are ready to go.

This evening we are here to review the Estimates of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs. I will ask for introduction on this side of the Committee first and we will begin down here.

Yvonne, do you want to have an introduction?

MS JONES: Thank you.

Yvonne Jones, MHA for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MR. BUCKINGHAM: Ed Buckingham, MHA for St. John's East.

MR. POLLARD: Kevin Pollard, MHA for Baie Verte-Springdale.

MR. LODER: Terry Loder, MHA for Bay of Islands.

MR. DINN: John Dinn, still the MHA for Kilbride.

CHAIR: We have –

MR. MALLAM: Andrew Mallam, Researcher with the office of the Official Opposition.

CHAIR: Okay.

Before be begin on this side, I will ask for a motion for the adoption of the minutes of the last Committee meeting of May 12, the adoption of the minutes that were circulated.

Moved by Kevin Pollard.

CHAIR: All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Carried.

On motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR: Thank you.

I would like to welcome the Ministers of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs and your staff. What we will do is have an introduction of your staff and yourselves, of course. We will start with Aboriginal Affairs first but you can do all of your introductions now. When you get the introductions done, Minister, if you want to do an address before I call the subheads, you can do that. We will ask for the introductions.

MS POTTLE: Patty Pottle, MHA for Torngat Mountains, Minister of Aboriginal Affairs.

MR DUTTON: Sean Dutton, Acting Deputy Minister, Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs.

MR. HICKEY: John Hickey, Minister of Labrador Affairs, MHA for Lake Melville.

MR. BOWLES: Ron Bowles, Assistant Deputy Minister, Labrador Affairs.

MS OXFORD: Krista Oxford, Executive Assistant to Minister John Hickey.

MR. GOVER: Aubrey Gover, Assistant Deputy Minister, Aboriginal Affairs.

MS STOKES: Donna Stokes, Executive Assistant to Minister Patty Pottle.

MR. OLIVER: Val Oliver, Public Relations Specialist, Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs.

MR. TOMPKINS: John Tompkins, Director of Communications, Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs.

MS POTTLE: Good evening.

As Minister of Aboriginal Affairs it is my pleasure to be here today to discuss the Estimates of the Aboriginal Affairs branch of the Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs.

Aboriginal issues remain a high priority for the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador as we work together with Aboriginal governments and groups to improve the quality of life for Aboriginal people. It is important to point out that the majority of activities within Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs, including land claim negotiations which are the responsibility of the Aboriginal Affairs branch, take place in collaboration with other provincial public bodies as well as Aboriginal groups, governments and the Government of Canada.

I am pleased to note that in the areas of Aboriginal land claims and self-government, we continue to make historic progress. The continuing implementation of the Labrador Inuit Land Claims Agreement and the eventual completion of the land claims and self-government agreement with the Innu will provide Inuit and Innu with access to resource royalties and impact and benefits agreements. The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador has made great progress in settling the land claim with the Innu.

The initialling of the Tshash Petapen or New Dawn Agreement in September of 2008 was an historic milestone. The New Dawn Agreement resolved major issues in the Lower Churchill Impacts and Benefits Agreement, Upper Churchill redress agreement and provincial issues in the land claim agreement in principle. This paved the way for initialling the legal text of these three agreements.

We have continued to work with the federal government and the Innu to resolve the outstanding federal issues of the land claim. This past March, it was my great honour to be on Parliament Hill in Ottawa to represent the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador and our Premier at an historic announcement that marked a giant step forward in reaching a land claims agreement for the Innu. I witnessed the completion of a financial agreement between the federal government and the Innu Nation signed by the hon. John Duncan, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, and Joseph Riche, Grand Chief of the Innu Nation. This agreement advances the Innu land claim agreement into the final stages of completion. It also serves as a major step forward for the Lower Churchill generation project. I understand the Innu Nation are now making preparations to bring the agreements arising from the Tshash Petapen or New Dawn Agreement reached between the Innu and the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to its membership for a ratification vote.

On the Island portion of the Province, we continue to participate in self-government negotiations with the Miawpukek First Nation and the Government of Canada. I am pleased to report that these negotiations continue to proceed in a positive manner and we look forward to its eventual conclusion. As minister, my role within government is to bring the Aboriginal lens to all activities of government that concern Aboriginal people. I believe it is an essential perspective, one that has proven results throughout Newfoundland and Labrador.

Some recent initiatives in which I have been working with my colleagues in other departments include: an investment of $2.2 million to place five full-time mental health and addictions counsellors in Nain, Hopedale, Makkovik and Natuashish and to provide the necessary accommodations and supports; $1.2 million has been committed for Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation to construct four public housing units for low-income residents requiring smaller housing units in Hopedale. This investment represents a first step towards addressing a need identified through the Poverty Reduction Strategy consultations that took place in the fall of 2010. It also builds on an investment in Budget 2010 which provided funding for the construction of four new social housing units for Nain.

An investment of $357,000 will support programs and services in the Innu communities of Natuashish and Sheshatshiu. This builds on the success experienced in the continuation of projects in Sheshatshiu, such as the Innu Healing Path initiative. It also demonstrates how the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador is dedicated to offering specialized services and programs that meet the needs of Aboriginal people; $656,000 will be provided over the next three years to support Memorial University's Native Liaison Office which provides Aboriginal students all from within Newfoundland and Labrador with information on services, course selection, registration, tutoring and accommodations and serves as a centre for social and recreational activities for students while they are in the St. John's area.

A commitment of $6.3 million has been made to support ongoing remediation efforts at the former military site in Hopedale with funding of $2.2 million in Budget 2011-2012 and an allocation of $2.1 million and $2 million in each of the following years, respectively; $1 million has been allocated for the implementation of a three-year Labrador caribou management initiative with a total three-year commitment being $1.9 million. This funding will allow for enhanced data collection of the George River Caribou Herd; $360,000 to increase safety and security at ten transition houses, three of which are in Aboriginal communities of Nain, Rigolet and Hopedale. This builds on our enhancements to these communities, including our recent announcement of the construction of a new shelter for Hopedale; and $195,300 will provide for two intake workers to oversee and manage mental health addictions referrals in Labrador West and Happy Valley-Goose Bay.

As one can see, the influence of the Aboriginal Affairs Branch continues to influence policies and directives throughout government.

For the fiscal year 2011-2012 notable Aboriginal Affairs initiatives identified in the Aboriginal Affairs grant's section includes $1.5 million for an assistance plan for Inuit communities on the Northern Labrador Coast where homeowners face unique and difficult challenges associated with the registration of home heating oil tanks to meet compliance with the heating oil storage tank regulations. This assistance will greatly reduce cost for homeowners to a figure more in keeping with other parts of Labrador.

There are $100,000 to assist in the updating of an Aboriginal consultation policy and other Aboriginal consultation activities. An updated policy will guide consultation with Aboriginal organizations whose asserted Aboriginal rights have the potential to be affected by development in Newfoundland and Labrador.

As well, under the Labrador Inuit Land Claims Agreement Implementation there is $213,500 in funding for the Torngat Wildlife and Plants Co-Management Board; $213,500 for the Torngat Joint Fisheries Board; $52,000 for a commissioner's public hearings on the draft Land Use Plan for the Labrador Inuit Settlement Area; $34,000 for the Dispute Resolution Board, which will deal with any disputes under the Labrador Inuit Land Claims Agreement; $20,000 for the Regional Planning Authority for the Labrador Inuit Settlement Area to complete a draft Land Use Plan for submission to the provincial and Nunatsiavut governments, and it is anticipated that work will conclude by the end of September of 2011; and $6,500 for the Appeals Board to hear potential appeals of decisions respecting the implementation of the Land Use Plan for the Inuit Settlement Area.

With that, thank you, Mr. Chair, and I would like to now turn it over to my colleague, Minister John Hickey of Labrador Affairs.

MR. HICKEY: Thank you, Minister, and Mr. Chairman.

I am pleased to appear before you and discuss the Estimates of the Labrador Affairs Branch of the Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs.

My mandate, as the Minister of Labrador Affairs, is to oversee government's involvement in Labrador through all government departments and to advocate for the progress in all areas: socially, economically and culturally. A Labrador voice at the Cabinet table speaking for Labradorians is producing substantial results. The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador will have spent more than $3 billion in Labrador since its first Budget in 2004, a major investment by any governments' standards.

Nearly all of the activities of this department, including the implementation of the Northern Strategic Plan, or NSP as we call it, for Labrador, require collaboration with other provincial bodies and in some cases with Aboriginal groups and governments, and certainly with the Government of Canada. The NSP demonstrates the provincial government's strong commitment to address the needs of Labrador, to improve infrastructure, advance social programming, and foster economic prosperity.

Since its launch by the Premier and myself on April 20, 2007 the NSP has seen an increase in commitments from 145 to 231. When first announced, the NSP was estimated to be an approximately $250 million investment in Labrador throughout the course of its five years. Today it is now expected that more than $632 million will be invested.

The following are a number of Budget 2011 investments under various departments which, through guidance and direction from our Northern Strategic Plan, are adding to this government's unprecedented level of investment in Labrador: $68.2 million provincially plus another $3.5 million in federal funding in order to complete the widening and continuation of the hard surfacing of Phase I of the Trans-Labrador Highway; we will continue to provide for subsidies totalling over $20 million annually to reduce the cost of electricity and home heating for residents in coastal Labrador communities; $3.4 million will be invested provincially and will lever an additional $1.5 million in federal dollars to complete the highway realignment at Pinware River on the Trans-Labrador Highway in Southern Labrador; $2 million to complete a new weigh scale inspection facility near Wabush; and $2.1 million in a new inland fish and wildlife enforcement division to enhance enforcement measures designed to protect Newfoundland and Labrador's valuable fish and wildlife resources, including specifically for Labrador an additional $1.3 million investment in the Inland Fish Enforcement Program to protect valuable salmon, trout, and Arctic char stocks in Labrador.

The Northern Strategic Plan for Labrador provides a vital focus for government on areas of priority and also provides an essential focus on public priorities. It supports the strategic direction of the Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs. It also serves to increase accountability to the public for this government's progress in Labrador.

In March of 2010 we released a Northern Strategic Plan progress report based on the advancement of commitments up to December of 2009. The release was supported by community information sessions throughout Labrador. Information and consultation with Labradorians is a key component in the success of the Northern Strategic Plan. In fact, Labrador Affairs staff made nearly fifty trips throughout Labrador last year, not including the travel I carry out as the Minister of Labrador Affairs or the travel carried by the Aboriginal Affairs Branch and my colleague, the good Minister of Aboriginal Affairs.

Labrador Affairs is responsible for ensuring that the goals and objectives set forth in the Northern Strategic Plan are monitored and completed. Staff oversee the monitoring and reviewing of all commitments, and track the progress of the plan and monitor its financial progress. Each year new commitments are added to the plan to support its existing goals and objectives. As we enter the fifth and final year of the Northern Strategic Plan, we will continue to monitor and review its progress and also avail of the opportunity to assess what has been achieved through the strategy.

The NSP has helped the provincial government to provide focus and direction of priorities with positive outcomes that are transforming the region. There have been several major accomplishments since the NSP's inception. Some highlights include the opening of Phase III of the Trans-Labrador Highway; a pilot project featuring a year-round ferry service between Labrador and the Island, of course across the Strait of Belle Isle, and establishing an air ambulance and medevac team in Happy Valley-Goose Bay. Other large scale infrastructure investments include a new hospital and college at the North Atlantic campus for Labrador West; schools in Port Hope Simpson and L'Anse au Loup; and a Francophone school in Happy Valley-Goose Bay.

For the fiscal year of 2011-2012 major initiatives identified within the Labrador Affairs include: $360,000 for the Labrador Snowmobile Trail Grooming Subsidy Program; $230,000 for the Air Food Lift Subsidy; $120,000 re-profiled from Budget 2010 to construct a groomer shelter in North West River; $100,000 in operational funding to the Combined Councils of Labrador; and $60,000 to support efforts to host the Northern Development Ministers' Forum taking place in Happy Valley-Goose Bay in August.

The Northern Development Ministers' Forum enhances co-operation between northern jurisdictions and the Government of Canada, and advocates for northern development. This forum provides an opportunity to discuss how we can work together to improve social and economic conditions in our communities while demonstrating environmental stewardship. I am pleased to host these meetings in Central Labrador and look forward to the opportunity to showcase the Lower Churchill Project and other resource opportunities that are in store for the region.

With respect to our Air Foodlift Subsidy, I would like to take the opportunity to point out that as a result of the federal government restructuring its food mail subsidy program, the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador has made adjustments to the provincial Air Foodlift Subsidy program or known as the AFS. The AFS helps provide consumers in remote Labrador communities with nutritious, perishable foods at a reasonable cost.

In May of 2010, the Government of Canada announced the food mail subsidy would be replaced by the Nutrition North Canada program effective April 1, 2011. The introduction of the Nutrition North Canada program made adjustments to the AFS necessary which are retroactive to April 1, 2011. The adjustments will be implemented and monitored on a one-year pilot basis. Officials from the Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs have been in contact with retailers and wholesalers to inform them of the pilot project.

To align with the federal Nutrition North Canada program, the NNC Category 1 list of eligible food items is being adopted for the AFS. As a result, the AFS will now subsidize some new items while some items that were on the previous eligibility list will no longer be subsidized. The majority of eligible food items remain unchanged. The AFS will continue to provide an 80 per cent air freight subsidy on eligible food items from the NNC Category 1 list and 100 per cent air subsidy will continue on fresh milk to retailers and wholesalers who participate in the federal NNC program under the NNC subsidy has been applied.

The AFS will now operate year-round as opposed to the previous structure of providing the subsidy during the winter months when the marine service ceased operations. However, the AFS program for The Straits and South Coast of Labrador remain status quo. It will be initiated when and if there is an extended, continuous interruption in marine service due to mechanical or weather delays or prolonged road closures on the Trans-Labrador Highway due to inclement weather. The monitoring and evaluation of the AFS is ongoing and carried out by the Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs and officials across a number of provincial departments.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and we are available now to discuss details of the Estimates.

CHAIR: Thank you, Minister Pottle and Minister Hickey.

Just for the record, I have to introduce the Chair as well; I neglected that the first time around. It is Clayton Forsey, District of Exploits.

With that, I will call for the subhead.

CLERK (Ms Murphy): Subhead 1.1.01.

CHAIR: Subhead 1.1.01.

We will start with Aboriginal Affairs. When you are responding to a question it is a good thing to give your name, like I just did, for the record. It is always a good thing to do. If you can remember to do that it would be great.

With that, Yvonne, do you want to start?

MS JONES: Thank you.

Actually, I am going to start with 1.1.01, which is the Minister's Office, so either can answer it. In terms of the Purchased Services, there was $8,000 budgeted and $37,000 spent. Can you just outline for me what that money was used for in the last budget year?

MR. DUTTON: The main cause of the differential was the cost of the minister's blind trust. That is not a budgeted item but it is something that we are obliged to cover in the department's budget.

MS JONES: Okay. The blind trust, for which minister and was it a total of $31,000?

MR. DUTTON: It was for Minister Pottle, and the total was $29,285.

MS JONES: That is the only question under that heading.

The next heading 1.2.01, which is Executive Support, the increase in Salaries there, was that just a normal increase each year, step increases, or was there something else there, an additional position or something like that?

MR. DUTTON: Do you mean the increase for the 2011-2012 Estimates?

MS JONES: Yes.

MR. DUTTON: Yes, it is just the 4 per cent increase.

MS JONES: Okay. How come it has gone down this year?

MR. DUTTON: Pardon?

MS JONES: How come it went down this year? The salary was $668,800, it went up to $761,300, and you are saying it was because of the increases or whatever, but how come the same amount is not budgeted this year?

MR. DUTTON: No, excuse me. The 4 per cent is an increase on the base budget of $668,800.

MS JONES: Okay, to $695,000.

MR. DUTTON: The revised total was more than budgeted because the department had to cover the cost associated with a retiring employee. That was partly offset by the savings from the deputy minister position not being paid out of this department but out of Intergovernmental Affairs, but there was still an overrun. It was a one-time expense.

MS JONES: Okay. What was the position the person retired from and has it been refilled?

MR. DUTTON: It was the previous Assistant Deputy Minister of Aboriginal Affairs.

MS JONES: Okay. I can see that it has been filled.

The only other question under that particular section is the $10,000 that is budgeted for Purchased Services. What would that normally be?

MR. DUTTON: Normally, these costs would include photocopiers, printing, entertainment, things of that nature.

MS JONES: Okay.

I am just wondering, because it is double what you actually spent last year. I am just wondering if there was anything special that you were budgeting for or if it is just a normal carryover.

MR. DUTTON: No, it was just normal, but because of the low amount it is an easy thing to go over on. In some of the smaller costs, like Supplies and Purchased Services, typically you may go over or under but they are pretty small amounts. So it only takes one unusual purchase to go back up to the total.

MS JONES: Okay. That is all the questions I have there.

Under section 2.1.01, the Aboriginal Affairs section; I know, Minister Pottle, when you were giving your overview you did give us the breakdown of where all of this money was in the Budget. So some of my questions may be repetitive in terms of what your answers might be, but I just want to get a clearer understanding of each category, where the money is actually coming from.

Under Professional Services, first of all, you are budgeting $38,700 this year. I am just wondering what that money would be used for? That would be 2.1.01.05.

MS POTTLE: The public hearings for the draft Land Use Plan did not go ahead this year, did not take place, so that is rolling over into this fiscal year now, 2011-2012.

MS JONES: Okay.

What Aboriginal government was that, the Innu or the Inuit?

MS POTTLE: The Inuit.

MS JONES: The Inuit, okay.

So, it will go ahead this year?

MS POTTLE: Yes.

MS JONES: Okay.

Under Purchased Services, again I know you outlined a lot of this but I was not quite sure what category, so maybe if I could get a breakdown of the Purchased Services, the $1.5 million.

MS POTTLE: It is approximately $1.5 million that is going towards the HOST regulations for the five Inuit communities on the North Coast, for bringing compliance for the heating oil storage tanks.

MS JONES: Okay.

That is for the inspectors?

MS POTTLE: Inspectors, yes.

MS JONES: Can you tell me what is included in that? If I am a resident today, for example, in your hometown and I am not conforming to the oil tank inspection regulations, what am I entitled to now under this program in terms of meeting that regulation?

MS POTTLE: Right now, what we have announced, we have a tender called for pre-inspections. That tender closes on May 24. The inspector would go into the communities and do a pre-inspection, and we are hoping that the inspector will be able to certify some of the tanks at that point to meet the deadline of August 31 whereby it is single wall, double wall, the issue there. At that time the inspector will also identify which residential homes need upgrades, need replacing and that sort of thing. There is more detail to come out and they will be coming out within the next couple of weeks. We are going to be going into the communities, the Inuit communities, and revealing the further details to this plan.

MS JONES: Okay.

For example, if I live in Hopedale today and I cannot afford to get my oil tank replaced, you will send an inspector in to do a pre-inspection, tell me what I have to have done, basically. Am I on my own to get that done, or can I apply here for some money to get that work done to buy the tank, to do what other things I need to have done? Is that an included expenditure?

MS POTTLE: That is included as a part of it. We are looking at how that is all going to unroll. There was a provincial program, province-wide, where they could apply to Newfoundland and Labrador Housing for that assistance for low-income homeowners, and we will have a similar plan available to the residents up on the North Coast.

MS JONES: Then when the work is done, the inspector will go back and do the inspection and approve everything, right?

MS POTTLE: Yes. Our objective is to get the tanks certified so that they meet regulations and that they can put fuel into their tanks and heat their homes, yes.

MS JONES: Okay.

How many people fall into that category?

MS POTTLE: We are estimating about 700 tanks upon the North Coast. All residential homeowners on the North Coast will, hopefully, fall in the category of pre-inspection. They have to agree to get this done or whatever, so we are estimating around 700 tanks. We will see what the details roll out with regard to the assistance plan. It will depend on income, but we are looking at other options, other things in getting the tanks to the North Coast because that is a challenge in itself too. You cannot go and buy tanks or parts or supplies in the community right now. It is just not available, so we are looking at assisting the communities' homeowners in that part of it and also transporting the tanks to the communities.

MS JONES: For people who already did the work on the North Coast, do they get their money refunded or anything like that, or that is just done now; if you have it done, great, and we are just dealing with the ones who do not have it done.

MS POTTLE: If you have it done, great, you are a step ahead. For some reason, you had the resources to be able to do that or whatever, you piggybacked up off of whomever was in the community. From what we have gathered, there are very, very few who are registered.

MS JONES: Okay.

Most of the money there is for that program. Is there anything else there under Purchased Services besides that particular program?

MS POTTLE: That is the public hearings (inaudible).

MR. DUTTON: Under Purchased Services for 2011-2012, we also have some of the funding for the Regional Planning Authority. They have $6,500 set aside for their operations. As well, the minister referenced in her introductory remarks, the commissioner's public hearings on the Land Use Plan for the Inuit Settlement Area; there is a $20,000 budget for that as well.

MS JONES: Okay.

Under the Grants and Subsidies, can you give me an idea of what is included in the $567,000 that you have budgeted?

MS POTTLE: I am sorry; could you repeat that, please?

MS JONES: Under the Grants and Subsidies it was $567,500; can you give me an idea of what that money will be spent for?

MS POTTLE: The Aboriginal Consultation Policy is one and the Labrador Inuit Land Claims Implementation Committees: the Wildlife and Plants Co-Management Board, the Joint Fisheries Board, Dispute Resolution Board and things like that, that all falls under that category.

MS JONES: How come it is reduced a little bit this year over last year? What was the reason for that?

MS POTTLE: This year we do not have the Suicide and Detrimental Lifestyles Grant money there. That program is being reviewed and we have had some other initiatives on the go. Health and Community Services has their $2.2 million for addictions officers going right into the Aboriginal communities on the Coast. There was also one-time funding went to Nunatsiavut Government back in February for various suicide initiatives that they have on the go in the communities as well.

MS JONES: Okay.

I just have a couple of other questions and I know they crossover other departments, so you can either answer them or you can refer them; that will be fine. This year you guys budgeted $1.2 million for four public housing units in Hopedale. I am just wondering what the long-term plan is for low-income housing in some of the other communities on the northern region of Labrador as well?

MS POTTLE: Well, that money is being budgeted through Newfoundland and Labrador Housing, $1.2 million.

MS JONES: Yes.

MS POTTLE: The same thing we had in last year's Budget. It is a huge issue up on the North Coast. We have been working with the communities and we do not have a needs assessment, per se. If you recall back when the Off-Reserve Aboriginal Housing Trust money was there, there was money put aside to do a study for all Aboriginal peoples in the Province, but nobody came forward to do that.

Now we are looking at doing, in partnership with the Government of Canada and the Nunatsiavut Government, a needs assessment for the Inuit communities. In the meantime, to help with some of the issues, we are putting four new social housing units in Nain and in Hopedale, the two communities with the greatest need.

MS JONES: Okay.

I heard Chief Simeon Tshakapesh on the radio back a couple of months ago talking about the shortage of housing as well in Natuashish and Sheshatshiu. I am just wondering if there are any plans to do any work there in terms of the housing piece?

MS POTTLE: Natuashish is a reserve community, so it falls under the jurisdiction of the federal government.

MS JONES: Yes. You would not be aware, though, if there are any plans to do anything there right now, would you?

MS POTTLE: No, not specifically. I know that they are looking at different options. They are talking with a company, I think, in Halifax on prefab homes or whatever. They did a carpentry course up in Natuashish this past winter where I think they trained fourteen, fifteen people in the community to do a carpentry program. They are in discussions with the federal government in putting some more money towards housing in their community. They have addressed and are addressing the mould issue that they identified in their community as well. They have been working on this for quite some time now and making some progress.

MS JONES: Okay. Thank you.

Also, under the federal mental wellness program – again, like I said, I know it is not directly relative but you may know. The federal government announced it was going to spent $1.2 million, I think it is, on programs around alcoholism, violence, crime prevention and so on in the Labrador Grenfell health and Nunatsiavut health commissions. I am just wondering what kind of programs they are looking at. Are you aware of what they are planning on doing with the money or what kind of programs they are putting into the communities?

MS POTTLE: I do not know directly what programs they want to deliver in the communities but I know this is a major issue for them. Initiatives that are ongoing that the Nunatsiavut Government are trying to do in their communities, the Innu Nation are doing in their communities, they are trying to do community-based initiatives to help address the situation and they are applying for funding from various governments, including the provincial and federal government and having success with it.

MS JONES: Okay.

When you were making your opening comments you mentioned the caribou study that is ongoing, or going to start I suppose, I am just wondering where that is. Has it started yet, or what is the time frame around it?

MS POTTLE: I was very pleased with the announcement of that money in the Budget because the George River caribou herd is a very important staple food for the Aboriginal people, and all Labradorians. What we do here and put money towards is to address - because of the decline, to address the issue is something that was vey well-received by the Aboriginal groups and by Labradorians in general, but as far as I know, I do not think it has started yet.

MR. DUTTON: No. As I understand it, the Department of Environment and Conservation is planning additional consultation with stakeholders, including Aboriginal groups, on how they are going to proceed with the initiative.

MR. HICKEY: I just want to make a comment, if I could, on that particular point. Yvonne, there has been work done this spring; there have been monitoring of the herds. There were also a number of collars that were replaced because some of the collars, the batteries had gone dead or wolves had taken out a caribou with a collar. There were a number of collars replaced, but work has started and we expect that work will continue as we move through the migration of the herd. As Minister Pottle said, it is a high priority for our government and also with the Government of Quebec. We are working closely with the Government of Quebec and their biologists over there because, as you know, the herd is a joint herd that is managed between both of our provinces.

MS JONES: Well, one good thing this year is that we did not have a lot of Quebec Innu coming in and raiding the herd, which was…

MR. HICKEY: We did not have anybody getting any caribou this year.

MS JONES: Yes, which was good; but I am just wondering, the season closed at the end of April. I do not know if you would have the numbers, I am just wondering how many animals might have been taken this year and if that is reasonable, or if there are further reductions being looked at?

MR. HICKEY: Minister Pottle may have certain information from North Coast communities, but I can say that from Lake Melville, Labrador West, and Churchill Falls there were very few animals taken this year. A few people in North West River managed to get a few animals. The snow conditions were such you could not get in on the land because there was just no snow. The caribou did not migrate down as they had in other years, and the numbers are just not there. Yes, I would say we would be lucky if there were 300 animals killed in Lake Melville, Churchill, and Lab City. I am not sure about the North Coast now, Patty might...

MS POTTLE: On the North Coast it is pretty much the same, very limited. You did have hunters go in a number of times and come out with nothing, but very determined to go look for animals. They would come out probably with three or four animals and that would then be shared amongst their families. Right now the Nunatsiavut Government does not have a tracking system but I think they are encouraging hunters to report the numbers that they kill. I know the numbers have definitely been down this year.

MS JONES: Do you think there is going to be some different guidelines put in around the hunt in the Nunatsiavut area as well? We saw new regulations this year in Lake Melville which applies to everybody else in Labrador, of course. In the Northern region, do you think there is going to be some regulation around that before next season or do you think it will just be left open as it is now?

MS POTTLE: They did go in and have consultations with each of the communities and had these discussions with them. As far as I know right now it is status quo, but everyone is conscious about the reduction in the herd and just doing what we normally do, is protect what we need to rely on into the future. Until I think they see abuse, it will probably stay the way it is.

MS JONES: Okay. Thank you.

You also mentioned about the Hopedale radar site remediation. I know there was money in the Budget this year and so on. Can you give me an idea of what kind of cleanup work is going to occur with that money, what it is you have budgeted to do there?

MS POTTLE: We have $2.2 million for this year, tenders will go out soon. The tender for the consultant has gone out now. They have a stakeholder group comprised of the Department of Environment and Conservation, Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs, Nunatsiavit Government, and the Inuit Community Government of Hopedale all sit on this stakeholder group. They are putting together their work plan and they have already discussed it for the coming year. They are looking at some more marine work they need to do and start the cleanup of some of the hot spots of the PCBs in the community.

MS JONES: Okay.

Will all of that get done this season or is it over a couple of years?

MS POTTLE: Right now it is over three years.

MS JONES: Okay.

Just a couple of other questions; one was the money that was allocated for specialized justice programs in Natuashish and Sheshatshiu. Can you explain to me what kind of programs they are? I think it was $357,000.

MS POTTLE: Yes, it is money coming from the Department of Justice built on what they have already been doing with the Innu Healing Initiatives.

Sean, did you have anything else? What exactly the programs are they are going to be delivering in writing to their communities, right?

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible).

MS POTTLE: It is an initiative they are working on with the Department of Justice. I do not have all the details on where directly that money is going to go.

MS JONES: Okay.

There was also $100,000 for Aboriginal consultations, people affected by industrial development. Can you explain to me what those consultations are all about, where they are going to occur, what was the catalyst for it, kind of thing?

MS POTTLE: It is to strengthen our consultation policy we have within government. We want to build on that. We have a lot of development on the go, so a lot of industry is unsure where to go, where to turn, whatever. We want to strengthen our relationships there, even our networking within government, when we go out to work with Aboriginal groups. So, when you talk about the George River caribou herd and whatever, our consultations, we need to strengthen that. That is some of the money that is going to be used in bringing the Aboriginal groups together in how we should develop this plan, how to strengthen it.

MS JONES: The only other question is from the Estimates again, 2.1.01, 02, Revenue-Provincial, right at the bottom. What would you be looking to get money from, I am just wondering what that was?

MS POTTLE: Well, there is going to be some money come back from the HOST oil tanks. We will have some revenue come back from homeowners because we are not covering it 100 per cent, we are covering it to bring it on par with other parts of Labrador. If you have some homeowners who can afford to contribute to this, they will be expected to. So we expect some revenue back from that. We had an employee in our department who worked with Nalcor, so we will get some of the funding – how does that work?

MR. DUTTON: Yes, that is right. Last year, one of our employees, a director, had been hired from Nalcor and there was a transition period during which we had to reconcile his salary, so the salary was recovered from Nalcor for that period of time. That was a one-time. That was the $10,700 in revenue for 2010-2011.

MS JONES: Okay, thank you.

That is all the questions I have for Aboriginal Affairs. I have some questions for Labrador Affairs, so will I just continue?

CHAIR: Thank you, Yvonne, and thank you, Minister.

I guess there is no need for her to stay if she do not want to - if you do not want to stay, Minister Pottle, you and your staff.

We will begin with your questions to Minister Hickey, Yvonne.

MS JONES: Thank you.

Section 2.1.02.05, Professional Services, you are budgeting $40,000 this year, can you explain what that money will be used for?

MR. DUTTON: For the 2011-2012 item?

MR. HICKEY: Yes.

MR. DUTTON: There is some one-time funding for the Northern Development Ministers' Forum to organize the forum registration logistics for six months. That is what accounts for the increase.

MS JONES: Okay, thank you.

Did you hire someone additionally to do that, or are you just hiring a firm? How is that working?

MR. HICKEY: That is all done internally, Yvonne.

MS JONES: Okay.

Under Purchased Services, you are spending $218,000 this year. Again, it is the increased costs associated with the ministers' forum, is it?

MR. HICKEY: As well, we have the lease for our building in Happy Valley-Goose Bay that has gone up.

MS JONES: Okay.

MR. HICKEY: So that we have to go back out to tender, so the price of that has gone up substantially.

MS JONES: Okay. Are you relocating or are you still in the same building?

MR. HICKEY: No, we are still in the same building but the price of course –

MS JONES: Went up.

MR. HICKEY: - went up.

MR. DUTTON: The lease runs out in November and we are being told by Transportation and Works that we have to re-tender. The marketplace is expecting a lot more, so we have budgeted for a pro-rated increase for that period and this item for the following year's budget that will show up throughout the twelve months. By that time, we will also have a firm number on what the lease will be going out for those future years.

MS JONES: Okay, good. I hope it works out, I hope you do not have to go through a move. It would be pretty difficult.

OFFICIAL: I hope we do not either.

MS JONES: Under Grants and Subsidies on that section, you budgeted $844,000 this year. Do you want to explain to me what is normally covered under that amount of money?

MR. HICKEY: Go ahead, sir.

MR. DUTTON: Sure. We had a decrease from some one-time funding for the winter trail subsidy. That is the main difference for the year. This would also include our funding for the Air Foodlift Subsidy, that amount remains unchanged. The differences are mainly in one-time reductions in the winter trails funding.

MS JONES: Can you give me what the breakdown is? How much is for winter trails, how much is for the Air Foodlift Subsidy?

MR. DUTTON: The Air Foodlift Subsidy annual budget is $230,000. I think the minister mentioned in his remarks for Labrador Affairs that the snowmobile trails – I think it is $326,000 if I remember correctly. This would also be where we would fund the Combined Councils annual grant.

MS JONES: Theirs is $100,000 or $150,000?

MR. DUTTON: One hundred thousand dollars for the Combined Councils.

MR. HICKEY: Three hundred and twenty-six thousand dollars for the Labrador snowmobile trail subsidy program.

MS JONES: Okay.

MR. HICKEY: One hundred and twenty thousand dollars certainly was for the construction of the groomer shed in North West River; $100,000 for the operational funding for the Combined Councils of Labrador; and $60,000 for the support efforts to host the Northern Development Ministers' Forum.

MS JONES: Can you provide for me what the winter trails budget has been for the last three or four years in the department? You said it went down a bit this year, but I do not know what it was last year, I cannot remember that. If you do not have it, you can just send it to me whenever, it does not matter.

MR. HICKEY: That obviously depends on whether we get snow or not, but we still maintain the groomers; we still spend some money to try to keep the maintenance up on the groomers and the different parts.

Certainly, we can supply that information. That is not a problem, Yvonne.

MS JONES: I am just wondering where the numbers are. I realize that if you do not have snow, you do not spend as much.

On the Air Foodlift Subsidy, you mentioned in your comments about some changes -

MR. HICKEY: Just before we go on, the ADM (inaudible) which I think is significant, there are some numbers we have here. Since we have them here, it is just as well that we give them to you.

MS JONES: Yes.

MR. HICKEY: For instance, we had aids to the navigation committee in Mud Lake, $5,000 regarding signage; the Makkovik Inuit Community Government, signage for trails north of Mulligan was $15,000; Rigolet Inuit Community Government, Rigolet-Mulligan trail upgrades, $30,000; Labrador White Bear Development Association, trail upgrades for Normans Bay-Williams Harbour, $30,000; for an overall of $80,000.

We just looked at the trails from Hopedale to Postville, Makkovik, of course, there was nothing done on that because the sea ice did not come in and it was just unsafe to go out there, period. We had open water in Hopedale in January. Postville to Burnt Lake to the turnaround, we spent $15,500 there; Makkovik to Burnt Lake to the turnaround was $84,000; Rigolet to Mulligan was $36,000; Goose Bay to North West River, $10,000; Cartwright to Black Tickle, $43,000; the Black Tickle intersection, Black Tickle, $34,000; Port Hope Simpson to Williams Harbour, Charlottetown, $30,000; Normans Bay to Charlottetown, $25,000; and the trail on Mud Lake Road over to Mud Lake, $10,000. Then we have major equipment repairs of $32,900, and then of course we had some miscellaneous expenses for the Williams Harbour residential Air Foodlift Subsidy program $13,000, for a total of $351,000.

MS JONES: Also, on the Air Foodlift Subsidy, when you were talking you were saying some of the eligible foods have changed. With the federal program, their new program Nutrition North or whatever it is -

MR. HICKEY: Yes.

MS JONES: Nutrition North Canada or something is it?

MR. HICKEY: Yes.

MS JONES: Does that affect our program at all? Will they run coinciding with each other? Can you claim under both programs? I am not sure how it works now.

MR. HICKEY: Well, what will happen now is that basically the food will be brought to the airport. At the airport then – of course, that is done with the wholesaler. What we tried to do is take some of the paperwork away from the retailers and put it on the wholesaler. What we are saying is the wholesaler will be responsible for getting the aircraft to charter it out to and to put in the claim for the subsidy on the food.

As far as what we are subsidizing, much of the list is the same. What we have decided to do is take the AFS program and the Nutrition North Canada program and try to work with the federal program. As I said in other comments I have made on this particular issue, interviews I have done on it, is that we are going to work with the federal government here on this because this is a very new program for them. At the end of the day, our mandate obviously is to ensure that the subsidy has passed on to moms and dads in the community to provide nutritious food for their children in these communities.

As far as the AFS program, we will continue to provide the 80 per cent air freight subsidy on eligible foods. Items from the NNC Category 1 list and 100 per cent subsidy will still be as we mentioned earlier, on fresh milk to the retailers and wholesalers who participate in the federal program. This year we are budgeting some $230,000 for the Air Foodlift Subsidy. So, we have not changed that.

MS JONES: Okay.

How is it going to work now? Even with the provincial program now, the subsidy will go to the wholesaler. That is what you are telling me?

MR. HICKEY: Yes.

MS JONES: It does not go to the retailers any longer in the communities.

MR. DUTTON: Yes, the distinction between the two, the Food Mail program was being built into the rate. The retailer that was participating in the program previously was already paying a subsidized air freight rate to begin with. When they would send in their weigh bill, we would calculate 80 per cent of the difference, what was left over, and that would be the subsidy that would go back to that retailer.

Wholesalers are now eligible because wholesalers and retailers are eligible under Nutrition North. Instead of this being built into the rates with Canada Post and shippers, they are going to claim back the same way that our program had worked. We have seen initially that some of the wholesalers are absorbing the freight cost and invoicing the retailers, reflecting the subsidy they are going to later receive from Nutrition North because they have to claim back. Although, I think they got an advance payment for April 1 to get started. As long as their paperwork from the retailer shows what the actual freight cost was after the federal subsidy is applied, then we can just continue to pay it to the retailer. If a wholesaler decides not to do that, then we may be able to deal with the wholesaler directly.

In the long run, if we are able to get a data-sharing agreement with Indian and Northern Affairs for administering that program, we may be able to find an easier way to administer it so that it will require less paperwork for the individual retailers. The extent to which we can continue to deliver the subsidy either to the wholesaler or retailer will just depend on which one is absorbing the shipping cost.

MS JONES: Okay. Say I own a store in Nain, for example, and I am going to order food out of Goose Bay, and I am going to order it from a wholesale company. They are going to bring it to the airport and fly it to Nain for me. Then they are going to bill me for the portion of the freight they cannot get back on their subsidy.

MR. DUTTON: Right.

MS JONES: But can they claim the subsidy provincially and federally, or can you only claim one subsidy?

MR. DUTTON: Our subsidy would be 80 per cent of the difference, so we need to be able to determine what actual subsidy they get from Nutrition North to calculate that difference. In milk, it would be 100 per cent. We are not paying 100 per cent of the gross cost, but the net cost after the federal subsidy is applied.

MS JONES: Okay.

With milk the Province would pay 100 per cent of the freight subsidy -

MR. DUTTON: Right.

MS JONES: - and with other commodities it would be 80 per cent, is what you are telling me.

MR. DUTTON: Right.

MS JONES: That would be 80 per cent after the federal subsidy is taken out.

MR. DUTTON: Right.

MS JONES: Okay.

It is quite the administration that is going to have to go on there.

MR. HICKEY: We have one person, one of our staff, and it has been very successful. As a matter of fact, we just did - just so you know - a review. We have talked to many of the retailers and we have gotten some very positive comments back so far; having said that, we are trying to find a way to be transparent, because at the end of the day we are not interested in a program where the benefits do not go back to the moms and dads in the community. That is really where our heads are, and we are adamant about it.

One of the things I have been a strong advocate for is the transparency of it. We hope to be able to get to that point and this is something we are discussing with the federal government, but we will be able to monitor the costs of standard food baskets in the communities to make sure that we, at the end of the day, that if someone is buying an apple in Hopedale or in Nain, or in any of the communities on the South Coast that are participating, that they are getting good value for the money they are spending, one; and two, is that it is at a reasonable cost. That is just the purpose.

MS JONES: You said the program would be year-round now in the Northern communities but I guess that includes Black Tickle and Williams Harbour as well, right?

MR. HICKEY: Yes.

MS JONES: Okay.

MR. HICKEY: It will include the other communities on the coast too, Yvonne. If we get, as we did just a little while ago with the Apollo, when she was not running across The Straits we implemented for the other communities along the coast when that transportation link was down or the road was closed. That will still cut in as normal.

MS JONES: Yes. Did you get anybody to take up the government on that program? I know it was only for a couple of weeks but -

MR. HICKEY: I think there was. I could certainly find out, but I understand there were a number of people, stores along the coast that did participate.

MS JONES: Yes. Can you get that information for me? I would like to know if they did participate, or if they did not, and what the cost of it was to implement it during that period of time. You did not touch on the Mealy Mountain Park. It is up to you if you want to answer the questions, but I am just wondering where the talks are right now with the feds on the Mealy Mountain Park issue.

MR. HICKEY: Well, I would say after today the talks will be better than ever they have been before, at least I would hope that they are. I know there is work being done on both national parks. We are working closely, and Minister Pottle has had a number of discussions with Nunatsiavut and Parks Canada regarding the Torngat National Park. The Mealy Mountain National Park, there is work being done on it. I know because one of our staff members has just gone off to Parks Canada for two years now.

There is work being done on that, and obviously, there is work and planning ongoing for the provincial waterway park adjacent to the Mealy Mountain National Park. It is a work in progress and we are going to continue to push for discussions with the federal government. I know talking to Peter Penashue, the new Member of Parliament, that it is certainly a priority of his to make sure we move this along as quickly as possible.

MS JONES: Yes. I was just wondering if the Land Transfer Agreements are completed, the federal-provincial Land Transfer Agreements and the negotiations with Nunatsiavut, NunatuKavut and with the Innu.

MR. DUTTON: We have an agreement on the notional boundary for the park. That was the announcement Minister Prentice and Minister Hickey had made, I guess it was the year before last. We do not have a Land Transfer Agreement negotiated at this point. Both governments are getting organized to prepare their negotiating mandates and it is expected that would be probably a one or two-year process. All of the Aboriginal groups you mentioned were part of the steering committee and I think there is general support for the boundaries that were proposed in that announcement.

MR. HICKEY: Just from a tourism perspective, I spoke to the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation a couple of days ago and he was telling me that the ad we did on the Torngat Mountains, the television ad there, thirty seconds, we have had more hits on that particular site than all the other sites we have in the Province.

The other thing we have also asked Tourism, Culture and Recreation is to start looking at the possibility of starting to do more promotion, high-end promotion video. I noticed last month in the Canadian National Geographic there was a nice photo presentation and a story there on the Mealy Mountain National Park. We are continuing to support it, we are continuing to promote it, and we think there is going to be large benefit for the people of Lake Melville, but particularly the people of Cartwright and along the Coast of Labrador as this park becomes more defined and people throughout the world will start to learn about it.

MS JONES: Okay. That is all of the questions I have. I just want to thank you ministers and your officials, and I appreciate the time.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

MR. HICKEY: Thank you.

CHAIR: Thank you, Yvonne.

I thank the ministers and your staff.

We will call for the subheads.

CLERK: Subhead 1.1.01 to 2.1.02 inclusive.

CHAIR: Subhead 1.1.01 to 2.1.02 inclusive.

Shall the total carry?

On motion, Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs, total heads, carried.

CHAIR: Shall I report the Estimates of the Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs carried without amendment?

Carried.

On motion, Estimates of the Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs carried without amendment

CHAIR: For the information of our Committee, we have another meeting tomorrow morning, Wednesday, Intergovernmental Affairs and Non-Profit for 9:30.

With that, I will ask for a motion for adjournment.

MR. LODER: So moved.

CHAIR: So moved.

Thank you.

On motion, the Committee adjourned.