The Committee met at 9:00 a.m. in the Assembly Chamber.

CHAIR (Forsey): Good morning, everyone, and welcome.

We will begin by having the introduction of our Committee and any researchers on this side. We will start with the introductions on this side.

MR. MALLAM: Andrew Mallam, Researcher with the Office of the Official Opposition.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Kelvin Parsons, MHA, Burgeo & La Poile.

MR. LODER: Terry Loder, MHA, Bay of Islands.

MR. POLLARD: Kevin Pollard, MHA, Baie Verte-Springdale.

MR. BUCKINGHAM: Ed Buckingham, MHA, St. John's East.

MR. DINN: John Dinn, MHA, Kilbride district.

CHAIR: Clayton Forsey, MHA, Exploits, and Chair.

First, we will have the adoption of the minutes for May 18; if I can get a motion to adopt the minutes of May 18.

MR. DINN: So moved.

CHAIR: So moved by John Dinn.

On motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR: Good morning, Minister.

MR. DENINE: Good morning, Sir.

CHAIR: This morning we are going to be reviewing the Estimates of Intergovernmental Affairs and the Voluntary and Non-Profit Secretariat.

Minister, before we call the subheads we will have some introductions from you and your staff, and if you have an address you can do that as well before we call for the subheads.

MR. DENINE: Okay. We will do the introductions first.

CHAIR: Yes.

MR. DENINE: Minister Dave Denine, Intergovernmental Affairs and the Volunteer and Non-Profit Sector.

MR. REID: Ross Reid, Deputy Minister of the Voluntary and Non-Profit Secretariat.

MR. DUTTON: Sean Dutton, Deputy Minister, Intergovernmental Affairs Secretariat.

MS CLARKE: Lesley Clarke, Communications Specialist with Intergovernmental Affairs and the Voluntary and Non-Profit Secretariat.

MS O'KEEFE: Lori O'Keefe, Executive Assistant to Minister Denine.

MS NORMAN: Katie Norman, Director of Social and Economic Policy, Intergovernmental Affairs Secretariat.

MR. DENINE: Good morning, everyone.

Welcome to the Committee and in particular the critic for the Secretariat. It is good to see everyone here this morning, so bright and early, to do the Estimates for the Intergovernmental Affairs Secretariat and the Voluntary and Non-Profit Secretariat. We all introduced ourselves, so everyone knows who is here.

I would like to take a few minutes, if I may, to speak about the Secretariat and the role within government. I will start with Intergovernmental Affairs. I guess we will do Intergovernmental Affairs first and then move into the Volunteer and Non-Profit Sector. Is that what we will do? Is that okay, because I would like to make a statement on both?

CHAIR: Yes, before we get into – you can go ahead and make your statement.

MR. DENINE: Okay.

CHAIR: Then before we get into questions I will call for the subheads.

MR. DENINE: Okay.

CHAIR: You can just continue on.

MR. DENINE: The Secretariat's vision is of a strong, self-reliant Newfoundland and Labrador advancing the best interests with governments in Canada and abroad. The IGS leads the formation of government's intergovernmental policies, strategies and monitors and co-ordinates interdepartmental initiatives to ensure they are consistent in application.

The Secretariat co-ordinates intergovernmental activity and recommends strategic approaches to federal, provincial, territorial relations including negotiations of federal, provincial and territorial agreements in consultation with the relevant departments. The Secretariat also develops provincial policy in areas that do not fall under the responsibility of other departments, including defence and foreign affairs.

On defence matters related to three installations in the Province, 5 Wing Goose Bay, 9 Wing Gander and CFS St. John's, the Secretariat co-ordinates discussions with military officials, local representatives related to planning issues and provincial interests. In recent years, defence activity has focused on promoting the military diversification, long-term operation and opportunity for flight training by allied forces at 5 Wing Goose Bay, and advocating for improved search and rescue response times.

International activities also fall within the responsibility of the Secretariat. The Secretariat is responsible for the co-ordination of policies, programs and activities of the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador in relation to other sovereign governments.

IGAS co-ordinates all policies, programs and activities of the government of the Province and its agencies in relation to sovereign governments and its agencies. We review all policies, programs and activities of the government of the Province and its agencies in relation to a sovereign government and its agencies, all intergovernmental agreements, all relevant legislation pertaining to those policies, programs, activities and agreements.

We also have legislative responsibility to be party to the negotiations of all proposed intergovernmental agreements. We also support the Premier and my fellow Cabinet colleagues in meetings with the federal government in other provinces and territories. I would like to note, my colleague, the Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs manages the Province's relationship with the Nunatsiavut Government while the Minister of Municipal Affairs is responsible for municipal governments.

With respect, Mr. Chair, to the promotion of the interests of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, I, as minister, as well as officials from the Secretariat, attend various bilateral, multilateral and regional, national, and occasionally international intergovernmental meetings on conferences to present and promote our Province's positions on matters of importance to the Province. IGAS promotes the Province's interests by assisting departments in their participation in intergovernmental meetings and negotiations, in the negotiation of intergovernmental agreements. IGAS asserts Newfoundland and Labrador's right to equitable treatment in the federation and works to initiate, maintain and advance Newfoundland and Labrador's best interests with governments in Canada and abroad.

That is it, Mr. Chair. So we are open to –

CHAIR: Thank you, Minister.

Before I call the subheads, I have to go back to the minutes. We just had a motion from John Dinn. Can we have a vote on that?

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Carried.

Thank you.

On motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR: Okay, we will now call for the subheads.

CLERK (Ms Murphy): Subhead 2.3.01.

CHAIR: Subhead 2.3.01.

Kelvin, you can go ahead.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

Minister, usually what I do is go through the particular heads first, any variances in the numbers that were there from last year to this year and so on. Then I will get into any general questions after that.

MR. DENINE: That is fine.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: First of all, on page 18, 2.3.02.06, Purchased Services; I notice last year it was $363,100 budgeted and spent. What kind of purchased services would we be talking there?

MR. DUTTON: Under this line item, we pay the Province's membership in the Conference of New England Governors and Eastern Canadian Premiers, the Council of Atlantic Premiers, and the Council of the Federation. There is a difference between 2010-2011 and 2011-2012 because we had a one-year fee holiday at the Council of the Federation due to a sustained surplus in that organization. That is reinstated in the Budget for this coming fiscal year.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: On page 19, item 2.3.04, Ottawa Office, I noticed the figure was down in terms of salaries last year, I guess that is because the office was not filled, but this year you are anticipating it to be back up. I am assuming whoever that person is will be receiving roughly the same pay as the former representative?

MR. DENINE: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: On page 22, Voluntary and Non-Profit Secretariat, 2.8.01, under item 05, Professional Services, $312,600; quite a substantial increase there from the $180,000 budgeted.

MR. DENINE: Last year we launched the Who Cares? Campaign. The Who Cares? Campaign was to recognize the volunteers in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Basically, it is to be able to promote what the volunteer sector is doing. This has been a provincial-wide launch in terms of thanking volunteers and doing an appreciation for them. That is where a lot of that (inaudible).

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: What was the nature of the professional services?

MR. DENINE: One would be consulting, in terms of getting the professional firm, to get exactly what program will take place, and that is where that would come from. I do not know if there is anything else – Ross?

MR. REID: If I may, Mr. Parsons, if you look at 06, there is also an imbalance there.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Right.

MR. REID: The difference is it was budgeted in one but in the end the actual payments came out of another, so we just moved money from one to the other. If you look at the two numbers, they essentially add up.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

On both 05 and 06, could you provide us with a breakdown of exactly where the money was spent?

MR. REID: Absolutely.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

Minister, with regard to Service Canada Community Offices, the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development Canada announced some months ago that they were closing all thirteen of the Service Canada Community Offices in the Province in 2012. Were there any communications between your department and Service Canada with respect to that development?

MR. DENINE: I wrote so many letters, let me check to see.

OFFICIAL: You wrote the minister.

MR. DENINE: Yes, I wrote Minister Finley on February 21 in regard to that.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Has there been any response to that? I assume you voiced your displeasure in your –

MR. DENINE: Pardon me?

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I assume you, by writing to him, you mean - did you voice your displeasure with the decision?

MR. DENINE: Yes, our concern with it.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay. Has there been any response from her?

MR. DENINE: Did we get a response back?

MR. DUTTON: Yes, she wrote back on the fourth of March and indicated that the matter would be given consideration, and a detailed response would follow shortly, but of course, the election intervened. So, that is the extent of the response we have received to date.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Did the minister indicate to you - because they are talking about closing the thirteen service centres but they are talking about having a replacement-type service. We do not seem to be able to get any detail as to exactly what the feds are going to replace it with and where. Do you have any such detail that you might be able to help us with?

MR. DENINE: No, not particularly. What happened was – is there anything else, Katie?

MS NORMAN: If I may, Minister, I actually had a conversation with some Service Canada colleagues when that went into the media, and what I was informed of was that this is a model that is a shift that is occurring across the country. When originally Service Canada was created a number of years ago, there were three service delivery options that were available. The choice was made in this Province, due to population dispersion, to go with the community offices, which basically means that there were Service Canada officials who would help people work through Web sites in existing community service centres.

Whereas now what is going to happen is there are going to be a number of people who will actually work for Service Canada. These centres were actually staffed by officials who are contractors, so they are not actually Government of Canada employees. Now, Service Canada employees who will have a greater ability to – if you have an issue, for example, with your EI payment, they will actually be able to work through that with you and give you an indication of when the issue may be resolved, or if it can be resolved.

Whereas now what exists in the community centres is someone can simply help you with your application. So, what they are arguing is that even though it went from, say, being about thirty-five hours a week, in different regions it will now only be one or two days a month where someone will be available for eight hours, but they will be able to do greater interventions. So, they argue it is an improvement in service. That was the description that was given to me. So, each centre where there are thirteen will continue to have this one day or two day a month service provided. There will still be access; it just will not be as frequent, although, the amount that you can engage with the Service Canada official will increase because they will have a greater ability to intervene.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: So, someone in Ramea, for example, which is an isolated community, instead of having the service available in town, which they always had to help with these applications, the feds are now saying you are going to get it once a month – one day a month.

MS NORMAN: One day a month someone will travel to Ramea and will open within – I do not know where the location will be but somebody will be there one day a month.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Minister, on the Canada Post thing which was raised yesterday, can you give us some detail as to what is happening there in terms of delivery of cheques if Canada Post strikes on Tuesday?

MR. DENINE: Well, there are a couple of things that happened with that in terms of whether we signed off on it. I think the Minister of HRLE made it known exactly what it was yesterday. The fact that when we send out cheques, we send them out twice a month, the middle and the end; and, the fact that we send out so many cheques, the offer to Canada Post was that they would only do it once a month, which would be the twentieth, and if we followed that policy, we would be behind in getting the cheques out to the appropriate people. It is up to HRLE to decide which way they are going to disseminate all the cheques and get them dispersed to the people who will receive them.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: On 5 Wing Goose, we understand that the base needs some $128 million in repairs. That is part of that whole 5 Wing package. Apparently, there is a lot of deterioration there and it is going to require some substantial dollars for improvements. Where is that file right now exactly? It has been kicking around for a lot of years.

MR. DENINE: Basically, as you know, that is the responsibility of the federal government, obviously. They have put in some infrastructure over the last number of years into that: the practice area, the runway area, the heating facility up there, and a number of others. I think it was something in the vicinity of $28 million or something like that; I can get you the exact figures. There are improvements taking place and they are moving ahead with improving the facility.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Are there going to be any NATO training exercises this year? Because there has not been any -

MR. DENINE: There was one scheduled for August, and that has been cancelled. There was some in December. There were troops up on the ground doing winter training in December. As of right now, Sean, is there anything else on the go?

MR. DUTTON: I do not believe there are any scheduled at this time, but they are continuing to market the base for military training opportunities.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: What is the impact of – I realize it will depend on the nature of the exercise and how many people are involved, but I take it we are talking millions of dollars here if there is a training exercise.

MR. DENINE: I guess it depends on the extensiveness of the training, how long it will take place, how many people will be on the ground, and how long it will be.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: With regard to the cancellation, I understand it was cancelled vis-à-vis Labrador but it was held somewhere else, is that correct?

MR. DENINE: Yes. That is the NATO you are talking about?

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: The NATO one. So, what was wrong with Goose? Why did they choose elsewhere?

MR. DENINE: It was the availability of the aircraft. Given the economic downturn and people did not want to spend as much money to move to different places, the cost of moving jet fighters, it is fairly significant. They decided to do it in part of the States -

MR. DUTTON: I am not sure if they needed the venue of the United States –

MR. DENINE: No, it is going to the States.

MR. DUTTON: - but they certainly had an existent squadron of aircraft available.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: One that is near and dear to all Newfoundlanders hearts, I guess: the seal issue, Europe's ban. Of course, this year we only took one-tenth roughly of the quota that we could have harvested in large part, I guess, due to the European ban. Has your department had any involvement with the feds in discussing this issue?

MR. DENINE: We have discussed it in terms of the relationship to any Embassy staff that would come here; a lot of Ambassadors will come here from the EU and all of that. We have certainly put our feelings and our positions known to each and every one of them. Myself and Minister Hedderson who was the Minister of Fisheries at the time, we met with a lot of the Ambassadors in Ottawa and we certainly put our position with regard to the seal hunt. As you know, then that will be up to the Minister of Fisheries line department to further negotiations on the seal hunt with it.

Just this past year there was a trade mission to China to try to open up the markets for the seal products. It seemed to be somewhat successful, but, I guess, the future will tell.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: The feds are asking the World Trade Organization to establish a dispute settlement panel to consider the challenge to the European ban. Has your department had any involvement in that process?

MR. DENINE: Sean.

MR. DUTTON: The consultations are being led by the Department of Fisheries and Aquaculture, so they would be engaged with the federal government on that matter.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Abitibi: The feds are on the hook, or the Canadian taxpayers, I guess, were on the hook for $130 million as a result of that settlement of the NAFTA. Abitibi alleged - and obviously it must have been correct, somebody paid them $130 million not to have it go to a tribunal. Did you have any involvement in those negotiations at all, your department?

MR. DUTTON: The settlement was between the Government of Canada and Abitibi, so we would not have been a party to the settlement. We would have been prepared to join with the federal government in the defence of the dispute, had it gone to a trade arbitration panel through NAFTA, but the federal government would have made the decision to settle. We would have been involved in a defence because it was related to actions the Province would have had, and we would have information the federal government would not have had access to otherwise. So, it would have been essential for us to collaborate on a defence had it gone to a panel.

MR. DENINE: Our department gives support to different agreements, different actions that this government would take.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: So, I take it the feds did not settle the issue without having some information. I realize that you would have to provide information if it went to the defence stage, but there were obviously negotiations leading up to a settlement. You are not suggesting that the feds settle this without talking to you fellows at all, to find out what the situation was?

MR. DUTTON: Well, all I can say is that the Secretariat was not involved in any such discussions.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Do you know if the government was involved – the provincial government?

MR. DUTTON: I could not say, I do not know. I would not say yes or no, I do not know.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: In 2009, the Province signed an MOU on fishing rationalization. Have you had any communications with Ottawa as to whether it would support a 70-30 federal-provincial retirement licence buyback program?

MR. DENINE: That was part of the election letter that we sent off to each of the leaders, in terms of that. If you give me a minute, I will find out the response.

This was from the Conservative government, in terms of that, and basically, it says: We are aware the global downturn has affected the workers of all industries, including fishermen and so on, and the budget contained several measures to encourage business and small job creation. A re-elected Conservative government's first priority will be to reintroduce and pass the budget to ensure that these programs are available to workers and their families; basically, the support for those people in the fish plants who will probably could lose their jobs.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: How are you interpreting that?

MR. DENINE: Sean.

MR. DUTTON: The Premier explicitly asked about their interest in entering into a 70-30 program and the letter was silent on that specific point in terms of the response.

MR. DENINE: Basically, they would have some job creation to help it out, in terms of people.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: But not necessarily a –

MR. DENINE: No.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: They did not say anything about the retirement program or the licensed buyback?

MR. DENINE: No, but the thing is that the early retirement program, our government has been on the record that we would be participants in that if the federal government go onside.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: That is right, and that has been for quite a number of years.

MR. DENINE: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: The Quebec Innu hunting when it comes to the George River and the Red Wine caribou, last year we had a good year, there was no hunting that went on, no charges laid, but there never were any charges, by our government, laid in that regard. Have there been any discussions by your department with Ottawa or with Quebec concerning that issue? It is a continuing issue for years and years and fortunately, last year, for whatever reason, the Innu did not hunt in that area.

MR. DENINE: I hope we have another year like that. The other thing with that is that would be the Justice department as to whether or not charges will be laid. That line department would take care of that and if they needed any support, they will come to us.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: In terms of Ottawa crossing the boundaries for example, have there been any discussions by your department at all, either with Quebec or with Ottawa, concerning this issue?

MR. DUTTON: I probably can answer this in my other capacity as Acting Deputy Minister of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs.

The federal government is not involved in caribou management, it is a provincial resource. We have had regular discussions between the wildlife branch of Environment and Conservation and Quebec's wildlife department over the management of George River caribou herd because it is a herd that migrates across the Labrador-Quebec boundary. Both governments are involved in its management, so there have been meetings amongst officials about how things are going to go forward on management.

The government had announced, last November, an interest in pursuing a process that might lead towards a more formalized co-management arrangement that might also involve Aboriginal groups and other stakeholders, so that process is continuing. Government also met with the chiefs from all of the Quebec bands on the North Shore and in the Schefferville area in January, discussed the management of the herd, briefed them on the science around the numbers and discussed the importance of respecting the caribou hunting zones, and that hunting should not occur in areas that are closed to hunting. We have had a successful season in that respect. Innu people who had previously carried out some protest hunts in past years agreed not to pursue that this year. I think progress is being made on that front.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: On Muskrat Falls, the National Energy Board in particular, has your secretariat been involved in any submissions to the National Energy Board with respect to the subsea transmission of energy between Newfoundland and Nova Scotia?

MR. DUTTON: There is no project registration filed to this point. So until that is done by the proponents that would be when the environmental assessment process would occur. I believe it is possible that the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency may become the federal lead on that rather than the NEB.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

Where are we with the federal-provincial joint environmental assessment? That process has not started yet?

MR. DUTTON: Which one? There are three components.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: On the generation project.

MR. DUTTON: On generation, the panel hearings concluded on April 15. The panel has ninety days to submit its report to the two governments. That will be due by July 15. We have not had any indication that it will not be done on time. After that, there will be a period where there may be a necessity for additional consultation with Aboriginal groups, but then the governments will both make their respective decisions on the recommendations of the panel that pertain to their respective jurisdictions.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Has your secretariat had any involvement in the CF(L)Co case that was undertaken by Nalcor in the Quebec Superior Court?

MR. DUTTON: No, I think it is actually CF(L)Co and that is a legal matter that is being dealt with directly by them.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: CF(L)Co?

MR. DUTTON: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

Do you have any idea when the Ottawa office might be filled? The Premier indicated a month ago it was eminent.

MR. DENINE: Well, it was the last comment the Premier said in the House just recently, a couple of weeks ago. It could be four weeks ago, I do not know, because we had the Easter break. It is under active consideration. When the person, he or she, is selected then we will make it public.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: This time around, was there a public consultation process or is this just going to be a political filled job like it was before?

MR. DENINE: The government will appoint that person.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: It might seem like a far-fetched topic, but there has been a lot of discussion by the federal government in recent years about Arctic sovereignty. Of course, we would factor into that. Has there been any discussion between yourselves and the feds as to, in terms of the federal government showing a presence in Arctic sovereignty that Labrador, for example, might be involved in some way?

MR. DENINE: In my conversations with a number of ministers, I talked about – actually, it goes back to 5 Wing Goose Bay, the ideal location, the proximity to the North and the great infrastructure it has. If anything, whatever they do as they move forward, in as far as Northern sovereignty is concerned, is that 5 Wing Goose Bay is a great place to operate from. That is one of the promotional things that we have to promote 5 Wing Goose Bay to become part of that Northern sovereignty.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: The federal government is involved in creating regulations for waste water systems, effluent, which would make it illegal, as I understand it, to deposit untreated water into the ocean. This Province and Quebec are exempt from that regulation, albeit we have a more high-risk treatment facility in this Province than anywhere else in Canada. What are the implications of that for our Province?

MR. DENINE: Again, that would be the environmental department who would do that in terms of the line department. I stand to be corrected, but the minister has basically said the cost of implementing such a policy would be significant; therefore, we would be very, very cautious as we move ahead with that.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: We decided not to buy into it simply because of the cost factor?

MR. DENINE: Well, that was one part of it.

Is there anything else on that you have?

MR. DUTTON: In effect, there has been no offer of any federal funding assistance for enabling compliance with the federal regulation. So that has been the concern. It would be particularly expensive, given the number of coastal communities we have that would be dumping waste water into the ocean, the cost of bringing all of those communities into compliance and what kind of a burden that would place on their municipal taxation in order to pay for it if there wasn't any other assistance. It is just cost prohibitive.

MR. DENINE: The feds have not put any cost to this.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: The proceedings against the Crown Act, last month it was amended to permit orders made against the government under the Agreement on Internal Trade to be enforced as a court order. Was your department involved in the decision to open the Province to liability under this agreement?

MR. DUTTON: The Secretariat works with the Department of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development on the Agreement on Internal Trade. These matters have frequently come up to the Council of the Federation for direction from premiers on a go-forward basis. The issue was about implementing monetary penalties for non-compliance on government to government disputes. Newfoundland and Labrador has never been subject to such a dispute under the AIT. We have never brought an action against another party under the AIT.

We have also ensured in the negotiation of monetary penalties that there is a scale, so that the maximum penalties consider the size of jurisdiction. A maximum penalty for Ontario would be much higher than what would be the maximum exposure for Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia or New Brunswick. The expectation was that would give some teeth to the dispute to resolution mechanism because there have been a number of disputes where a party had been found in non-compliance with the agreement in the past and that the government took no action to correct the matter because there were no consequences other than embarrassment to them. That was the reason for those penalties being brought into effect and the legislative changes were required, basically, to make them law.

One result that had occurred initially was around coloured margarine that Quebec, up until that point, was not complying with the ruling against them on banning coloured margarine in their marketplace. As soon as the premiers had reached agreement, or were about to reach agreement on the financial penalties, they immediately changed their rules to allow for that into their market. It has already had a positive effect in terms of compliance with the agreement.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Just a couple of questions, Minister, on the Voluntary and Non-Profit Secretariat. Last March you held a two-day session, I believe, with eighty community representatives to identify priorities and establish the top ten.

MR. DENINE: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Have you ever publicly released what the top ten were?

MR. DENINE: Yes. Well, we have corresponded with all of the people who were involved with that. There was a committee set up after, to go over the discussion that took place, and there was a copy of our ten points sent out to the people who participated in the summit, and it is also on our Web site.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay, thank you.

Back to the numbers again, I will call it. I omitted, when I was going through, to ask one question I had there on page 22 of your Estimates, item 2.8.01, Voluntary and Non-Profit Secretariat, item 10, Grants and Subsidies there, $100,000.

MR. DENINE: There are two components; I will talk to that and then I will give it to Ross to finish up on some of it. There are two things there. In terms of the grants that we give out, we have two cluster projects that are in the process, two pilot projects that are ongoing in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Basically, it is taking a region and looking at the best practices, what do we need to help support the voluntary and non-profit sector, and basically get the people in the region to know who the volunteers are from one community to the next.

There are two on the go. There is one in Bonavista, and we started one there last year in Marystown. They are doing quite well. A significant portion of that went to them, and I will it to Ross to give you the exact figures on whatever was there. There are two that, to me – well, I visited Bonavista once, three times; Marystown, for health reasons, I could not get down there. Basically, both of them are working very, very well. The people are very enthused on the volunteer sector. The people in the regions are getting to know each other in terms of one community to the next. They are looking at best practices and it is working out fairly well. We were supposed to have a meeting with them last week, but it was cancelled.

Ross, is there anything else on that?

MR. REID: In terms of the cluster's project, which we partner with the community sector council, the grant to that last year was about $60,000, just a little bit less in two pieces. The next largest initiative under that is an agreement that we had with the Newfoundland and Labrador Housing and Homelessness Network that are doing a study on developmental evaluation or development evaluation, which is a process whereby community-based organizations essentially evaluate programs and projects before they enter into them. Then they are able to evaluate them as they go in terms of effectiveness, efficiency, value for money, that sort of thing. It correlates with a lot of the evaluation that we are seeing happening in governments across the country and around the world, but it has also become very much a leading edge practice with good organizations.

We have entered into an agreement with the Global Citizenship Initiative, which is one of the best student-led organizations at the university. They are undertaking a two-part project; we are funding the first part of it, which is to look at social change leadership. One of the real questions we want to answer is, consistently at Memorial University there are student organizations that year after year are strong, are effective, bring students in, and regenerate themselves. They include SIFE, which has again, this year, won the national award in the business competition. They include Oxfam, (inaudible), organizations of that nature. So the question is, why are they successful, why do they continue to be successful, and are there lessons we can learn from there?

The second part, which we will not fund, but we will support is to see what we can take from that and apply at the university, but also, we would like to be able to apply it outside. Then there are some smaller grants. One of the things that we try to do is support travel for people who would not be able to attend provincial conferences or provincial events, from small community organizations. We provided some money for volunteer week so that community-based organizations or communities could hold their own volunteer recognition. That added up to $98,000.

In terms of the salaries, in terms of the increase from this year to the next, you see two things. One, is the creation of a director's position. There is no director's position; there is no management position in the Secretariat. We have received approval to create a permanent director's position. The other part of is - I am not exactly sure of his title - we have someone in the Secretariat who came to us two years ago through Opening Doors. He has proved invaluable to us, and he is the person who manages the data management part of the grants review process, and we have received funding for a temporary position for three years to carry that on.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Has the director's position been filled?

MR. REID: The director's position has been temporarily filled; it will be competed later in the year.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Was that someone inside already, or external, advertised?

MR. REID: Just one of the people who are in the Secretariat now has assumed the role of the acting director, but the Public Service Commission will hold a competition later this year.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

I have nothing further.

CHAIR: Are you finished, Kelvin?

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Yes.

CHAIR: I call for the subheads.

CLERK: Subheads 2.3.01 to 2.3.04 inclusive.

CHAIR: Subheads 2.3.01 to 2.3.04 inclusive.

CLERK: And 2.8.01.

CHAIR: Subhead 2.8.01.

On motion, subheads 2.3.01 through 2.3.04 carried.

On motion, subhead 2.8.01 carried.

CHAIR: Shall the total carry?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Carried.

On motion, Intergovernmental Affairs Secretariat and the Voluntary and Non-Profit Secretariat, total heads carried.

CHAIR: Shall I report the Estimates of the Intergovernmental Affairs Secretariat and Voluntary and Non-Profit Secretariat carried without amendment?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Carried.

On motion, Estimates of Intergovernmental Affairs Secretariat and Voluntary and Non-Profit Secretariat carried without amendment.

CHAIR: Thank you, Minister, and your staff, for your time; and our Committee.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Minister.

MR. DENINE: Thank you, Sir.

CHAIR: It has been a great exercise, and I think that clues up our Estimates for the year.

A motion for adjournment?

MR. LODER: So moved.

CHAIR: Moved by Terry Loder.

Thank you.

On motion, the Committee adjourned.