April 12, 2004 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No. 14


The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: Today we have statements by the following members: the hon. the Member for Humber Valley, the hon. the Member for Bellevue, the hon. the Member for Trinity North, the hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune, the hon. the Member for Port au Port, and the hon. the Member for Grand Falls- Buchans.

The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS GOUDIE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to pay tribute to a true gentleman and friend, Mr. A.M. (Gus) Kerwin, who passed away April 4, 2004.

Mr. Kerwin's name needs no explanation to the people of the West Coast of this Province, especially to the people of Deer Lake where he served many years as a councillor and Mayor.

Mr. Speaker, Gus Kerwin was born in St. John's but lived most of his life in Deer Lake with his wife Cavelle and three children Tony, Joanne, and Pattie. He was a tireless volunteer who served in many capacities such as the Deer Lake Chamber of Commerce, the Deer Lake Lions Club and the Deer Lake Concerned Citizens Committee that helped retain the Deer Lake Airport.

More importantly, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Kerwin was a great friend. As a child, I spent almost every day at the Kerwin home, as his daughter Joanne and I were great friends. Each time I visited Joanne, I felt as welcome in the Kerwin home as I did in my own.

Along with his dedication to the community of Deer Lake, I will remember Mr. Kerwin for his kindness, generosity and friendship, and I am sure the people of Deer Lake feel the same.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me today and extend their sympathies to the Kerwin family.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize the many years of hard work and volunteer service by five individual firefighters of the Seaside Fire Department in the beautiful Districts of Bellevue and Trinity-Bay de Verde. Volunteer firefighters Ronald Smith, Rex Hollett, Donald Bishop, Melvin Newhook and Alonzo Reid all received recognition for over twenty-five years of volunteer service to their local fire departments.

The Twenty-fifth Annual Ball of the Seaside Fire Department, which I was pleased to attend, was a great success and honoured many of the region's citizens who volunteer long and thankless hours to ensure the basic needs of a community are met.

Mr. Speaker, indeed all regions of our Province are daily aided by the work of volunteer firefighters and indeed the many fire-ettes, and we as Newfoundlanders and Labradorians appreciate their thankless efforts.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in congratulating Mr. Ronald Smith, Mr. Rex Hollett, Mr. Donald Bishop, Mr. Melvin Newhook and Mr. Alonzo Reid, on recognition of many years of volunteer service to the communities of Blaketown, Old Shop, South Dildo, Dildo, and New Harbour.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to congratulate the Flying Blades Figure Skating Club of Clarenville for another successful year. Last Saturday, the season closed with their ice show entitled, "The Wizard of Oz", and they showcased skaters from the ages of two to eighteen.

Mr. Speaker, at the end of the performance, the Ruth Bailey Memorial Award was presented to Paul Hopkins for demonstrating a natural ability to dance with expression and style, and also for his placement at the regional and provincial level.

Mr. Speaker, during that same ceremony, Susan Thistle received the Elizabeth Swan Cup for the best all-around member of the club: the skater who best demonstrated hard work, dependability, consideration and co-operation.

Mr. Speaker, I would ask all members of this hon. House to join me today in congratulating all of the skaters of the Clarenville Figure Skating Club and also a special thank you to the many volunteers who make that club a very successful one, and for the great work that they do in contributing to the development of young people in that region of the Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate an up-and-coming hockey player from my district: seventeen-year-old Lorna Tibbo. Lorna is the daughter of Wade and Angie Tibbo of Harbour Breton, and is currently completing Level III at King Academy School.

Mr. Speaker, Lorna began playing hockey at the Connaigre Arena at the age of six. Her parents enrolled her into the figure skating program, but it was right from day one that Lorna developed an interest and began to play minor hockey. She has been an avid member of the Harbour Breton Minor Hockey Program and has expanded her hockey knowledge and skills through various hockey camps, including camps offered at Dalhousie University.

Lorna has played in many tournaments, representing her hometown, and also with teams representing Central Newfoundland during the Confederation Cup and the Newfoundland and Labrador Winter Games. Most recently, Lorna was a member of the provincial team and played in the 2004 Esso Women's National Hockey Championship that was held in Sherwood Park, Alberta. The team produced the best result for the Province in the history of the tournament.

I join with Hockey Newfoundland and Labrador in congratulating the ladies on their success and professionalism as they compete on the national level. All team members have contributed tremendously to increasing the awareness of female hockey in the Province. Mr. Speaker, I am very proud to stand here today and congratulate Lorna on her successful hockey career thus far and wish her luck with all her future endeavours.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port au Port.

MR. J. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to bring to the attention of the House that this year the Royal Canadian Army Cadets celebrate their one hundred and twenty-fifth anniversary. I also wish to point out that in Newfoundland the largest Army Cadet Corps in the Province - boasting over 100 cadets - resides on the Port au Port Peninsula in the District of Port au Port. It is the only known bilingual Cadet Corps on the Island and they proudly fly the Francophone flag of the Province as part of their colours. A large number of the Cadets are fluently bilingual and many others embrace their native origins. In spite of out-migration, the Cadet Corps has continued to grow to the point where they are today.

The Cadets are made up of young men and women from all of the communities on the Peninsula and show great loyalty to their Corps. They boast a twelve-piece military marching band, an eight-person colour party, an Honour Guard and three platoons of Cadets.

The Corp's logo - the lynx - is synonymous with the area, and the cadet motto is, "shining through adversity."

A year of activities has been organized to celebrate this 125 years of excellence, and I was honoured to have earlier this year reviewed the Cadets and taken the general salute.

The Royal Canadian Army Cadets inspire thousands of young men and women with the highest ideals of character, conduct and patriotism, as well as develop in youth the attributes of leadership, good citizenship and physical fitness.

I ask members to join with me in extending congratulations and best wishes to the Army Cadets in the Province on their one hundred and twenty-fifth anniversary.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, public speaking among youth is an art that is alive and well in Central Newfoundland.

Recently at the Knights of Columbus regional speak-off in Grand Falls-Windsor, which had the highest number of participants ever, many high school students in the Central West region had the opportunity to display their skills in the art of public speaking.

One such student, Joanna Barker, a Grade 10 student at Exploits Valley High, was honoured with the competition's highest award, first place overall.

Mr. Speaker, Joanna delivered a riveting speech on an issue which continues to affect every citizen of our planet - Global Warming.

She said she enjoys public speaking because it allows her to educate her audience and voice her opinion on an issue that is important to her.

Joanna said she was very happy with her first place outcome, but even more happy that she had an opportunity to spread the message on global warming and ensure that the message continues to be spread to the public.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join me in congratulating Joanna Barker, and indeed all participants in this speak-off, on their performance at the recent competition.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Ministers

 

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to bring my colleagues, and all Members of the House of Assembly, up to date on the results of the most recent employment survey by Statistics Canada, which shows an encouraging growth in employment in Newfoundland and Labrador.

The Labour Force Survey, Mr. Speaker, is one of the primary sources of information for a variety of labour market indicators including employment, unemployment and participation in the labour force. These monthly survey estimates are also among the most important indicators used to measure the performance of the Canadian and provincial economies. It is from this survey that the official unemployment rate is calculated.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to report today that employment in March 2004 in Newfoundland and Labrador rose by 2 per cent compared to March of last year. That represents an increase, Mr. Speaker, of just over 4,000 people successfully employed in our Province who were not working during the same period last year. At the same time, the unemployment rate has dropped by a full percentage point, compared to March 2003.

In addition, Mr. Speaker, the number of people participating in the labour force has increased. This is traditionally viewed as a sign that confidence in the economy is building and our citizens believe that opportunities in the workforce are increasing.

These figures, Mr. Speaker, are consistent with results in earlier months as well. For the first three months of this year, compared to the same period in 2003, employment is up 1.5 per cent and the unemployment rate is down 1.1 percentage points. These are truly encouraging results compared to the same period last year.

Mr. Speaker, this government intends to build on these figures, investing in economic development and job creation that will bring prosperity and opportunity to the people throughout Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to thank the minister for a copy of her statement before we came to the House, giving us an update on the recent employment survey statistics by Statistics Canada. I understand that most of the increase that we see there is basically here on the Avalon.

I am also very pleased to know that a trend is continuing, Mr. Speaker, a 2 per cent increase. I know for a fact that the employment rates have risen month after month over the last several years.

I also want to say to the minister, I am pleased to see that they intend to build on those figures to build the economy. I have to say, they had a marvelous foundation, a solid foundation to begin with, that was laid by the former Administration.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BUTLER: A lot of those figures, Mr. Speaker, come from White Rose, the work that is going ahead in Marystown and Bull Arm, and the wonderful project called Voisey's Bay. I never thought I would hear that name anymore in the House. Even though the statement says there are 4,000 more people working now than there was twelve months ago, I fear what is going to happen when the 4,000 are going to be eliminated out of the service over the next three or four years.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is always good to see an improvement in the unemployment rates going down, but we still have a very considerable problem, Mr. Speaker, on the Burin Peninsula and South Coast and on the Central Newfoundland-Northeast Coast. We still have unemployment rates of 25 per cent and, very sadly, young people in this Province between the ages of fifteen and twenty-four, the unemployment rate has actually increased year over year, not decreased. We have now three times the national rate for young people between fifteen and twenty-four unemployed in this Province. That is a very disturbing number, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MR. HARRIS: By leave, for a moment, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. HARRIS: That is a very, very disturbing number. The closest province to us - we are at 24.9 per cent - the closest province is Prince Edward Island. That is 15.1 per cent. The next one after that is New Brunswick at 11.6 per cent in the unemployment rate. We find it is very disturbing, Mr. Speaker, for young people who want to make decisions about whether they will stay or go.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works and Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to advise hon. members of government's decision on the Labrador Coastal Marine Service.

My Cabinet colleagues and I have carefully reviewed the report on Labrador Marine Transportation presented by Memorial University's Public Policy Research Centre and have chosen to adopt a modified version of the second of its eight service configuration options. The PPRC study concluded that the freight service from Lewisporte should be continued.

The Labrador Coastal Marine Service Configuration beginning in 2004 will be as follows:

The Sir Robert Bond will provide freight and passenger service on a weekly basis; its route will be Lewisporte, Cartwright, Happy Valley-Goose Bay, Cartwright, Happy Valley-Goose Bay, Cartwright, Lewisporte, until September 10, after which time its configuration and routing will change to accommodate increased freight traffic demand anticipated out of Lewisporte.

The Northern Ranger will provide freight and passenger service between Cartwright, Happy Valley-Goose Bay and points north, including Black Tickle.

The Trans Gulf will provide freight service between Cartwright and points north, including Black Tickle.

The Challenge One will service south coast ports (that is, Norman Bay and Williams Harbour from Charlottetown and Port Hope Simpson).

This decision will bring much-needed stability and certainty to the coastal marine service. Cartwright will see the same level of activity as last year and more than in the previous years, established supplier relationships will be maintained, which was a concern expressed by Central and Western Labrador businesses, and the residents and businesses of the isolated north coast will be reliably and well served. Our objective is to put an end to the upheaval and confusion that afflicted it in 2003, and make good, long-term, evidence-based decisions.

Government has closely examined the evidence provided in the Public Policy Research Centre Report, which looks at eight service options in terms of cost to the provincial treasury, cost to Labrador's isolated coastal communities and the potential broader economic effects associated with each. We chose the option that achieves the best balance of economic considerations and consistent, reliable service to the people who depend on it.

The gross cost of this service configuration is estimated at $21.6 million; the net cost to government after revenue will be $16.4 million, approximately $600,000 more than last year. Government considers that a good investment in order to achieve the greatest benefit for the greatest numbers of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, especially those who most depend on the Labrador Coastal Marine Service.

Mr. Speaker, government does not agree with everything in this report, particularly where it goes beyond the scope of work requested. However, today we are releasing it as promised. It has played a very important part in our decision making, particularly the stakeholder input as outlined in Chapter Two. We have been mindful that behind the math and macroeconomic models are the people of Labrador's isolated costal communities and the service exists for them.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for an advanced copy of his report.

Mr. Speaker, I have to say today, to the minister, that I am totally taken aback by his report. Certainly, the Sir Robert Bond, there are people in Labrador West and the upper Lake Melville area who will applaud the Sir Robert Bond going back on. There will be some who will be against it. I am sure that the people on the south coast of Labrador will be devastated, as they have invested a lot of their personal money into the road and services going that way.

Mr. Speaker, the part of the Trans Gulf now being rerouted to Cartwright onto the north coast, a part that the people spoke out that was needed so badly. The north coast of Labrador are the ones who depend upon the marine services more so than anyone else. Again, they are going back and having their freight re-handled two and three times prior to getting on the north coast of Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier said in his own words they would provide a service that was less costly to government. Well, I look forward to seeing the report and certainly, I can guarantee the minister and his government that I think once we see the report we will prove you wrong. I can say, Mr. Speaker, that proving this government wrong on some of the promises they made and where they flip-flopped and come back, that proving them wrong on the marine services will be a very easy task.

I look forward to getting the report and going through it, and I hope the minister will release that report -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's time has expired.

MR. ANDERSEN: - so people can go through it. I assure him that the minister will hear from me and a lot of other people in Labrador in days to come.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I know everybody will not be happy with this report but we are certainly satisfied that it offers the option to people to make a choice as to how they want to travel. I know my colleague from Labrador West has been representing to this House and to the government that the overwhelming majority of people in Labrador West, travelling to the Island, would rather have the option of being able to travel to Lewisporte if they so choose, and this option satisfies that. We are favourable - this is a favourable decision as far as many, many people in Labrador West are concerned. It still provides plenty of business opportunities for the people in Cartwright.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, over the past number of days the people of the Province have been expressing great disappointment with the lack of progress being made in negotiations to end the largest strike in the Province's history. Media reports have indicated that the government's latest offer is final, an offer that the unions describe as worse than the initial offer.

The question for the Premier, Mr. Speaker: Are these reports factual? Is this most recent offer government's final position or is government just playing games with the unions and with the people of the Province?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I can answer the Leader of the Opposition categorically: This is not our final offer. It was never presented as a final offer. We have never stated it to be our final offer.

We have gone through a process last week with the unions where they presented us with an offer. We countered with our counterproposal. They came back to us with an offer. We then countered again with a second counterproposal. That proposal was placed with them on Friday past, and we are still waiting for their counter-offer to our counter-offer. No, it is definitely not a final offer.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I am sure that many people will be glad to hear that, especially since the Minister of Finance was on the Open Line shows again this morning describing it as the final offer from the government as far as they could possibly go.

Mr. Speaker, many people, including myself, fail to see the logic in the Premier's and the government's approach to negotiations. If he truly wants to reach a settlement, why did government put forward a proposal that is described now as having more concessions than the previous offers and a smaller wage increase than was actually being discussed publicly a week ago? How can the government justify going backwards if the government is truly interested in reaching a settlement, Mr. Speaker?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I never indicated anywhere it was a final offer. I indicated on Open Line this morning, and I have said it in the media today at the daily news conference that we have, that we responded to their proposal. We responded on Friday. We stated clearly what our offer was, and I said we are waiting to hear a response to our last offer. I said we do not intend to respond to our own proposal. We are waiting to hear what their response is, and I said we would respond back to that.

As to the offer being worse, Mr. Speaker, as a result of March 31, we received an offer from the union that had significant money in year one and year two, when we previously had agreed not to have any money in years one and two. That offer was 2 per cent and 2 per cent respectively. We counter-offered back to them again, and they came back again with 1.5 per cent and 1.5 per cent in the first two years. We indicated that, to get our fiscal house in order, we need to have a period of restraint. We cannot afford to put money on the table, and that offer is up to any public consumption to look at our two offers and compare the two of them and see who made what offer and what is considered to be reasonable, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am glad to have both the Premier and the President of Treasury Board, the chief negotiator, now suggesting that the people who wrote the headlines were wrong. They wrote in the headlines that it was the final offer, as stated by the government, and it is pretty clear from the answers that they are satisfied, day twelve, in the biggest strike in the history of the Province, to be going backwards, both themselves and the unions, rather than forward to a constructive solution.

Mr. Speaker, the question is this: Instead of working constructively to find a resolution of the strike at the bargaining table, the Premier and his chief negotiator, the President of Treasury Board, seem more intent every day on waiting for a health or safety risk to emerge in order to justify legislating workers back to work. So, instead of waiting for an inevitable health or safety risk to occur, which it surely will if we wait long enough, why won't the Premier or his chief negotiator get back to real negotiations, stop going backwards, twelve days into a strike, and try to work towards an agreed-to resolution and bring this strike to an end?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We are prepared and we are open to move the process along. The last offers made improvement from the first offers last week, and the gap was closed somewhat, I might say, and we are hoping that the response to that will close the gap further and that is grounds to be able to move forward.

Mr. Speaker, we are acting in what we feel is responsible. We have dealt with a lot of issues. We made a tremendous number of concessions. We allowed changes to automobile allowances that was not there before. We have agreed to numerous incidents within specific units - I will not get into all the details - things that were not there before. We think that what we are doing is responsible. We feel it is important, on behalf of the people of our Province, that we deal with today's problems today and not push them off into the future, that has been done so often here in our Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it is becoming more evident every day with statements just like that, that they intend to get these concessions that are still on the table, because they are going to fix some things into the future; that there is going to be no agreed-to resolution when all the unions are saying we will not voluntarily accept concessions.

It is clear then, Mr. Speaker, that the government must now be seriously looking at what kind of legislation they are going to bring in. It was talked about quite widely and speculated through the week's end and the weekend, and talked about again today by leaders in the government, that they will do it only if necessary. That means it is only a matter of time.

With that happening, Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: What work has been done? Is it legislation that is going to send the workers back, bargaining unit by bargaining unit, or are they all going back at the one time? Is it going to have, in the legislation, Mr. Speaker, any kind of binding arbitration for the outstanding issues that the unions have said they will never agree to; and, Mr. Speaker, in fact, is it going to be that way or is he going to dictate changes to the actual terms and conditions of the agreements -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member now to complete his question.

MR. GRIMES: - that the unions have said they will not accept?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We have not looked at legislating people back, or what type, or any legislation whatsoever. We feel that it is a right of unions and their membership to go out on strike to fight for their cause, to put forth their case. We have responded to each of them. They might be wishing we did, Mr. Speaker, but I can tell you in all sincerity that we have not, in any way, entertained back-to-work legislation. We have not looked or discussed any type of back-to-work legislation. We have not given anybody any direction to put any type of back-to-work legislation before us. We have not even discussed that point, Mr. Speaker, in all sincerity. I have answered this in the House before, I will answer it again. If a situation arose, the House, or whomever is available then, would be the first to know that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Maybe, then, we can have an answer to this last question that I will ask on this issue today. With a negotiation that has been characterized by imposed deadlines that mean nothing - there obviously cannot be any deadlines if we are trying to get a settlement. We are twelve days into the largest strike in the history of the Province. With insincere offers - actually worse than they were before the strike started - on the table, in writing by insistence of the government, the answer to this question might be very enlightening to everybody In Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr. Speaker.

Why is it that every single member of the government caucus, on Wednesday past, voted against a resolution asking them to live to the commitment that the Premier of the Province made to not use the Legislature to force people back to work and to write the collective agreement for them? Why did they vote against that, if they have no intention of voting, at some point in time, to put the people back to work?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We have not imposed any deadlines. Everybody is fully aware there was a deadline of March 31 to get a settlement, and the union indicated if there was not a settlement they would - no contract, no work. The only deadline received: We received a deadline on Thursday, when we received the latest offer from the union, a deadline to respond to them by I think it was 2:30 or 2:00 o'clock on Friday afternoon or they would go public. We worked Thursday night and into the afternoon here on Friday to prepare a proposal, that we responded to them with that in writing. We met the deadline that they imposed or asked us to meet. We did that.

As to legislating back to work, Mr. Speaker, as the former Premier of this Province he stood in this House and said he will not rule out the possibility of legislation. In fact, we are not going to throw out any particular option if the need arises in the system. We hope it does not happen. We hope there is going to be a settlement occur, Mr. Speaker. We are not going to start planning for something that we do not anticipate, that hopefully will not happen. We want the people back to work.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. the minister now to complete his answer.

MR. SULLIVAN: We want a fair agreement on behalf of the people of this Province. I am not going to play games with legislation to trick government into making a decision here on a private member's resolution. We are going to do what any responsible government would do in the circumstances. We will monitor that on a daily basis, and we will make that decision, Mr. Speaker, if and when the time comes.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the President of Treasury Board.

Hasty and hot-headed comments are not helpful to the current labour environment. The minister has time and time again, and even today in his update, accused workers of abusing sick leave and other benefits. I ask the minister: Why is he giving a false impression to the people of the Province, that public employees are dishonest, disloyal, manipulative of sick leave, vacation pay and compassionate leave. Does he think this type of personal insult and attack on employees will help settle the strike?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I basically stated, I tell the hon. member, what is available now in the current system. I have indicated that anybody working in the public system today can get up to twenty-nine days of annual leave which they are entitled to, statutory holidays which they are entitled to; it can be a maximum of thirty-nine. They have twenty-four days sick leave, they have three family, which is sixty-six days over thirteen weeks. We consider that fair and reasonable. We respect the right of people to be absent when they are sick. We fully expect that, Mr. Speaker. The average number of sick days in the system -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, I would like an opportunity to answer the question if I could, please.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Members should know, and do know, that this is a time of some intense differences in the Province. Questions have been asked, and I ask all members to permit the ministers to be able to answer them without being interrupted unduly.

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board, a short few moments to complete your answer.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The average number of sick days taken in the Province is over sixteen. In jurisdictions that have only half the allotment of hours they are using considerably less. We are looking at standards that are taken across this country. We do not know why, basically, people have more sick days in this Province that elsewhere. We feel that when people legitimately deserve them they can, but sick leave is not intended to be annual leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the minister now to complete his answer.

MR. SULLIVAN: It is a cost to the health system alone of almost $50 million, to the health system, and we think something has to be done to correct it. We want, Mr. Speaker, sick days to be used for sick purposes. That is why they are there, for insurance, when somebody gets sick.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LANGDON: Thank you very much.

I want to tell the minister, Mr. Speaker, that we are not living in Ontario or British Columbia. We are living in Newfoundland and Labrador.

You have just said it is fair and reasonable. If it is fair and reasonable, why are you taking it from the workers? If the minister has evidence that there are a small number of employees who are abusing the benefits, then deal with them individually. Don't tar everybody with the same brush.

My question again: Is he saying that public employees in the Province abuse every sick day, every family day, all compassionate leave they are entitled to? If they are not, you should apologize to them for falsely accusing them over the public airwaves.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Of course not, Mr. Speaker. He is trying to grandstand and trying to put a division among the public servants. We value the public service people of the Province and we value the people in the system who work hard for the system. We feel, and jurisdictions have shown, that when sick leave is less there is less taken for sick leave. He knows as well as I do that in every system out there, there are abuses. We don't want the people who truly need it to be paying the price for people who abuse the system, Mr. Speaker. We want it corrected right. We want to have a number of sick days available to an average person who can expect to work in this country and here in this Province.

The member is doing nothing only driving a wedge between the people who are out there, who are being sincere in their work in the workplace and working here in our Province, Mr. Speaker. That is an unfair accusation, it is not want I indicated, and if he doesn't know the facts and doesn't like them, then he should research them and find out what other jurisdictions are doing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Health and Community Services today.

Are you concerned at all about the crisis in our health care system right here in our Province? This is day twelve, as other speakers have said, of the largest strike in our history in this Province and already we are hearing from all over the Province that surgeries are on hold, cancer patients cannot get their treatments, long-term care patients, the ones in our seniors' homes, are in their beds day after day. Are you going to show some compassion to the people of this Province and get this matter resolved?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Whenever there is a strike, especially involving health care, it is a very difficult situation. We are having ongoing contact with our health care boards and we are sure that essential and emergency services are being provided.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, pretty amazing! Twelve days into a strike and everything is fine according to the Health Minister. Well, you know something, Mr. Speaker, clinics in many rural communities are closed because of this prolonged strike and it is clear that many of these same clinics will be permanently closed because of your right wing health reform agenda.

I ask the Minister of Health and Community Services: Is this a preview of the level of service patients can expect to receive after the strike is over, because of these Budget cuts that you are planning to implement in health care?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This government is committed to providing excellent health care to the residents of this Province. As I have indicated earlier, in times of a labour dispute it is very difficult to provide essential health care services, but we are. We are having daily contact with the health care boards. We are monitoring what is happening across the Province and we are confident that emergency and essential health care services are being provided.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Premier. For many, many years, including the whole previous Tory regime, the provincial government put nothing into the public service pension plan and told employees that pensions were not negotiable. Well, after the last round of negotiations in 2001, including a commitment by the employees to put an additional 1 per cent into pension plans, something has changed with the public service pension plans so it is now the best funded of all the pension plans of government. Why does this government want to turn back the clock and is telling unions that pensions are no longer negotiable and wants to have the unilateral power to either decrease pensions or increase the contribution rate?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Government has the power now to increase or reduce benefits or the amount of premiums that are paid. They have the power right now, currently as we stand. That is a concession the unions are looking for us to give up, that right to that power.

Prior to 1980, money was used out of the pension plan and used for wages, for roads, bridges and for the general public service. Since 1980, the plan has been performing at 10.2 per cent. Currently, the plan is 48 per cent funded. If we give up that right now to be able to have any control over that, it means that if we stop the clock today, that only 48 per cent of the people who paid in and want to be a recipient of a pension plan in this Province we will have no money to pay it. That is the reality of it and that is something no government, in their right mind, would want to do.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The President of Treasury Board knows that is nonsense. CUPE and NAPE were the ones who brought to the negotiating table the last time a solution to the unfunded liability, and the member knows that.

Mr. Speaker, I want to know, and the people who are on strike, I am sure, want to know: What plans does this government have to reduce benefits for striking workers or increase the cost to them?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We have no plans to do either. In fact, we put in writing - I heard one of the union negotiators who called in - a guy Oliver, I think he said, from Clarenville - and said that we, in disagreement, indicated that we are looking at rolling the pension plan into one. A person who is negotiating on behalf of the union should know that we put in writing to the union that we will not roll the pension plans into one. We will maintain independence. How can members of a pension plan understand if negotiators are saying something that we put in writing that is not accurate? We have no plans, Mr. Speaker - we do not have an intention.

Like I said in answer to the first question, we will not, at this point in time, compromise the rights of any government here to allow a pension plan to continue when it is 48 per cent funded and give up any rights we have. We are currently paying $60 million a year into that plan. Prior to 1980 -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the minister now to conclude his answer.

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, the premiums that people paid prior to 1980 -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SULLIVAN: I would like an opportunity to answer, Mr. Speaker.

The premiums that people paid prior to 1980, even if government had not spent it on something else, would not have made that plan fully funded. So there is a responsibility for the difference to be funded equally by employers and employees, and they have not agreed to fund that particular portion of that plan.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, on a supplementary.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Why will the minister not admit that what this government wants is four years, at least, to tinker with that pension plan, to increase the cost to members or to decrease the benefits? Tell the truth and admit that.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will tell the truth. We agreed to put $60 million to continue into that plan. That plan is showing experienced gains now. It has averaged 10.2 per cent since 1980. We hope it will continue to experience that in the future and there will not be any need for anybody - it will become a fully funded plan down the road with the significant contribution that government has made and there will not be any need to do anything. One thing that we do not want to do, Mr. Speaker, is twenty or thirty or forty years down the road, compromise people's ability. We want to deal with today's problems today. We do not want to pass on to future and future generations the costs that are incurred here in this Province. I think that is unfair. It is not a responsible thing to do, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have a question for the Minister of Transportation and Works, and Aboriginal Affairs. Since the strike started twelve days ago the residents of Fogo Island and Change Islands have been getting one trip a day in a ferry that takes half the capacity of the regular boat that does the run out there. Since Saturday night this replacement ferry has been tied up to the wharf, leaving the residents on both islands stranded. I ask the minister, what is he doing to try and remedy the situation that is ongoing out there today?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the member knows that an essential service agreement was worked out between the union and the Province, and the jest of it is a trip a day, as he indicated. We have been having some technical problems of a technical nature with the vessel. The vessel sailed across this morning, and we are waiting for a piece of software equipment that has something to do with the alarm system on the ship to be accessed so that problem can be corrected and the ship will then continue to operate as was previously scheduled under the essential services agreement.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to redirect my questions to the Minister of Finance and Treasury Board.

Every day I hear the minister stand in the House, or in front of a camera, and talk about how the system is coping. When you have people on Fogo Island and Change Islands who are running out of fuel, stores out there that are running out of provisions, people who are missing doctor appointments, I ask the minister: When are you going to give up your stubbornness and sit down and negotiate a deal in good faith with the unions?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The essential services agreement provides basic essential services, and we want to see the health, safety and security of people. I understand there were provisions on Fogo Island that were low and they arranged -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: I am not sure if the member wants to hear an answer because he is interrupting, Mr. Speaker, but there was an extra trip made, I think, to get provisions over there where they were getting low.

MR. REID: The boat has been out of service for the last two days.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Again, I ask hon. members for their co-operation to permit the minister to be able to go and answer the question. I ask him to do that now. You have about another twenty seconds left.

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am aware that on Sunday, April 11, the Beaumont Hamel, a part of the alarm system went down and they are trying to access a part for the reprogramming of that. They are trying to get access to that. They have to go through a strike line at a particular campus here. They have not been able to do that up to now, I understand. Hopefully, that can be accessed and get back. I am prepared and waiting for a response to our offer that we made on Friday, our proposal. They have not gotten back to us since we presented that to them on Friday afternoon.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Government Services.

As we know, her department is responsible for most inspections done by the government to ensure that public safety is protected. Will the minister give an update in the House today on how the strike is impacting this work? Are weigh scales being kept open, and is highway enforcement being carried out? Minister, is public safety being compromised by your government's inability to negotiate with good faith with the unions?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As President of Treasury Board, my department is responsible for monitoring all aspects, whether it is in government services, transportation, health or education all over the Province. I receive updates on an ongoing basis. I met with the Chief Executive Officer of the health boards today. We have services in place that meet essential service agreements there. We understand that you cannot have the full range of services that are available as if everybody was working, but we are dealing and managing with the system under the circumstances, Mr. Speaker, and we will continue to do that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, I say to the Premier, I have just found another way to reduce the deficit: to stop paying some of his Cabinet Ministers if he is not going to let them go to work.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SWEENEY: Can the minister tell the House if restaurants and other food establishments are being inspected at an appropriate level? Can the public be guaranteed of their safety?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, the public does not have to worry about this safety. While there is a strike going on in this Province, we are maintaining the services to the public health and I would tell the hon. member not to worry about that. We will monitor it day to day and make sure that our public is not at risk.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

Due to the strike caused by the one-man show here, your leader, there are many schools and many extracurricular activities, sports wise, culture wise, that are being cancelled throughout the Province. When you sat on this side, on many occasions I heard you say, personally, that students should not be used as pawns for any strike. What have you done to help with this strike to ensure that the students, who have put in the hard work and dedication in this Province, are going to be able to have their events on time? What have you done differently from when you were over here as the Opposition?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SHELLEY: Mr. Speaker, I can tell the minister, I was waiting for a long time on a question. I have finally gotten one; I will get one today.

I certainly do support all of those groups. I have been in contact with many of those groups, as a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, and we are doing what we can under the circumstances. The member knows that full well, and we will continue to do what we can while this job action is in place.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The time for Question Period has expired.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Lake Melville.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on tomorrow I will move the following private member's resolution:

WHEREAS Canadian Forces Base 5 Wing Goose Bay has long been and remains one of Canada's strategic important military bases, as well as a key military training site for countries of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, NATO; and

WHEREAS the future of 5 Wing has been clouded in uncertainty in recent months, to the detriment of the people and economy of Happy Valley-Goose Bay; and

WHEREAS the Government of Canada, with the support of the Canadian public, is strengthening its investment in national defence, particularly in light of concerns about global terrorism and Canada's ongoing military operations in Afghanistan and elsewhere; and

WHEREAS the Government of Canada is advancing large strategic investments in military flight training at 3 Wing Bagotville, Quebec and 4 Wing Cold Lake, Alberta; and

WHEREAS the Minister of National Defence has announced significant financial support for current training partners over the next two flying seasons and is engaged in developing and implementing marketing, training and cost allocation initiatives; and

WHEREAS the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador is committed to ensuring the future viability of foreign military training at 5 Wing and has been working cooperatively with the Goose Bay Citizens Coalition and the Government of Canada to achieve this objective;

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that this hon. House call upon the Government of Canada, to expeditiously develop and implement a new strategic plan for 5 Wing Goose Bay that includes substantial new investments in the base in order to make optimal use of the infrastructure, expertise, geography, climate and other tremendous advantages of 5 Wing while boosting the local economy and making Canada stronger.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

I do believe you wish to go back to Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, if I could have, with leave, to revert to table various -

MR. SPEAKER: Has leave been granted to revert to Presenting Reports?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees

MR. SULLIVAN: I thank the members for their cooperation.

Pursuant to section 28(4)(e) of the Financial Administration Act, I am tabling two Orders in Council for the creation of two new activities of expenditure for the 2003-2004 fiscal year.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, Oh!

MR. SULLIVAN: They are there, two of those decisions. I can give them, if they would like. They are decisions that were made by the former government. I can go into these, if they so desire. One is dealing with the BSE Recovery Program. There was a decision that was made by the previous government back in August, I believe. The other particular one, Mr. Speaker, was a decision regarding Electoral Districts Boundaries Commission that was made by the former government also. Both of these are pertaining to that. It is standard to have them tabled here in the House. They are here for the members to see and have a look.

Also, Mr. Speaker, if I could, pursuant to section 26(5)(a) of the Financial Administration Act, I am tabling sixteen Orders in Council relating to funding pre-commitments for 2004-2005 to 2007-2008 fiscal year. This is normal commitments with ongoing projects. If they want a list of each of these sixteen, I can go through each one; if not, they can have an opportunity to look at them and then deal with them accordingly. Do you want a list?

MR. SPEAKER: Table them.

MR. SULLIVAN: I will table these, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion, the hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I move, by leave, and I have consulted obviously with the Opposition House Leader, that the following members of the House confirm - we have to confirm their appointment to the Public Accounts Committee; these members. It basically confirms we move that they be appointed, but it confirms the appointments made by the Leader of the Opposition and by the Premier of the Province, following the swearing in of the new government. The following members:

Mr. Eddie Joyce, Member for Bay of Islands, confirmed as Chair of the Public Accounts Committee; Mr. Harry Harding, Member for Bonavista North, as Vice-Chair of the Public Accounts Committee; Mr. Ray Hunter, Member for Windsor-Springdale, member of the committee; Mr. Wallace Young, Member for St. Barbe, member of the committee; Ms Kathy Goudie, Member for Humber Valley, member of the Public Accounts Committee; Mr. Gerry Reid, Member for Twillingate & Fogo, member of the committee - you will enjoy your work on that, I used to be on that myself - Ms Yvonne Jones -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. E. BYRNE: No, I mean that in all sincerity. It is a good committee to be involved with. Myself and former member Tom Lush, who used to be Speaker, a member here and Government House Leader, both he and I chaired and vice-chaired that committee.

Ms Yvonne Jones, Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair, member of the Public Accounts Committee, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I am wondering if the hon. Government House Leader would like to move that motion now, as you just gave notice of it - the Chair is uncertain - and then we could dispose of that particular matter.

Does the member have leave to move his motion now?

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I will reiterate. I asked for leave to move the motion that we confirm the appointments. I believe I have already done that, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair misunderstood. It was under the Notices of Motion, so therefore the Chair apologizes.

It has been moved and seconded these named members be appointed to the Public Accounts Committee.

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: Contra-minded?

The motion is carried.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I rise to complete a petition that was presented by the Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne on Thursday, which she presented on behalf of the Member for Conception Bay East & Bell Island, who chose not to present it on behalf of her constituents.

Prayer of the Petition:

To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, in Parliament assembled, we the undersigned petitioners or Bell Island, as in duty bound, petition, humbly pray and call upon the House of Assembly.

WHEREAS at a March 30, 2004 public meeting assembled on Bell Island, residents had gathered to consider an impending crisis facing Bell island due to a threatened blockade of their marine highway by a public service strike

WHEREAS the Provincial Budget of 2004 had proposed measures to reduce ferry services and raise ferry rates with significant negative impacts to the Community's economic future;

THEREFORE we petition:

A. Reconsideration of ferry rate increases: that proposed ferry rate increases of 25 per cent slated for implementation for the on Island portion of our Province services only, not be approved for implementation; that instead, government continue the Party policy contained in the PC 2003 Blue Policy Book specifically "phase in adjustments over a five-year period to bring rates on provincial ferry routes in line with the cost of highway travel" be implemented in its place, with lower rates, not higher rates; that government ferry rate policy be applied in a manner consistent with government's own pleas to the federal government not to increase Gulf ferry rates and that government adopt intra-provincial rates based on the equivalent cost of road travel.

B. Reconsideration of proposals to reduce Bell Island's ferry service and schedule by 20 per cent: that the proposed 20 per cent reduction in Bell Island's twenty-one daily round trip schedules by four trips to seventeen trips be reconsidered; that the long-standing core schedule not be changed; that the two vessels operating together on the service not be reduced from eight hours daily to three hours; that the restriction to limit daily sailing hours to twelve hours on Bell Island's service is unfair and that it be lifted in favour of a minimum of fourteen daily sailing hours per vessel on all intra-provincial ferry services; that schedule cuts not be implemented as they will cripple Bell Island's growing economy, threaten the jobs of Bell Island's 850 employed workforce and trigger major increased in counterproductive budgetary spending resulting in increased government income support payments to displaced workers; that shutting down one of Bell Island's two ferries at peak traffic, at 5:00 p.m., will be equivalent to shutting down one of the two exit lanes on the TCH from the city at 5:00 p.m. and neither is acceptable.

C. Proceed with an investment in 2004 to construct a new provincial replacement ferry: that consistent with the policy position laid out in the PC 2003 Blue Policy Book, as well as consistent with a 2001 House of Assembly resolution, and further consistent to a plea -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MS FOOTE: By leave, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MS FOOTE: - by the Auditor General in annual reports that government move forward to build new replacement ferries; that in view of an incontestable desperate need for new ferries to replace an aged fleet, that government secure lease financing in 2004 and undertake an economic investment to construct a new replacement ferry for the Hamilton Sound at a provincial shipyard.

D. Appeal for fairness for Bell Island in any 2004 ferry service schedule reductions; that in applying any reductions in ferry service schedules for 2004 that Bell Island not be singled out as the only ferry service out of the sixteen intra-provincial ferry services to have a cut apply to its scheduled trips; that the loss of four trips daily or 20 per cent cut in scheduled service with no cuts in the schedules of other services would not be fair and will result in serious economic consequences for Bell Island and that the decision be revisited; that schedule cuts will hamper Bell Island's rural rejuvenation and renewal leading to rural economic stagnation and should not be approved.

E. Seek to renegotiate NAPE strike essential services agreement, which resulted in a cut of 95 per cent of Bell Island's daily schedule: that NAPE be requested to reconsider the January 2004 essential services strike agreement, which reduced Bell Island's ferry schedule from twenty-one trips to an unacceptable one single daily trip to Bell Islanders and Bell Island's economy; that as a minimum during the strike four round trips be provided.

F. Move to have all sixteen intra-provincial ferry services designated as strike free: as government, in order to protect the health and safety of its residents and the economy, has successfully lobbied the federal government to declare the Gulf ferry service as strike free with a full schedule during labour disputes, than the provincial government act quickly to extend the same right to its own sixteen intra-provincial ferry services; that land and marine highways not be blockaded, preventing users from travelling and thus compromising public health and safety as recently ruled by the Canadian Labour Tribunal Board in November 2003 on the Gulf Service.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS FOOTE: As in duty bound your petitioners humbly pray.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 6, Bill 6, An Act To Amend the Fire Prevention Act, 1991.

MR. SPEAKER: Moving first reading.

It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled, An Act To Amend The Fire Prevention Act, 1991. (Bill 6)

Is it the pleasure of the House the hon. Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs shall have leave to introduce said bill?

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against?

Motion carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Fire Prevention Act, 1991," carried. (Bill 6)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the said bill be now read a first time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bill be now read a first time?

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against?

Carried.

CLERK: A bill, an Act to Amend the Fire Prevention Act, 1991. (Bill 6)

MR. SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a first time. When shall the said bill be read a second time? Now? On tomorrow?

On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 6 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, Motion 7, Bill 8, An Act To Amend The Municipal Affairs Act, now be read a first time.

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled, An Act To Amend The Municipal Affairs Act. (Bill 8)

Is the pleasure of the House that the hon. Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs shall have leave to introduce said bill?

All those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against?

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Municipal Affairs Act," carried. (Bill 8)

It is moved and seconded that the said bill be now read a first time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bill be now read a first time?

All those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against?

Carried.

CLERK: A bill, An Act To Amend The Municipal Affairs Act. (Bill 8)

MR. SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a first time. When shall the said bill be read a second time? Now? On tomorrow?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 8 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 8, Bill 5, An Act To Amend The Emergency Measures Act. I am looking for first reading again, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled, An Act to Amend The Emergency Measures Act. (Bill 5)

Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs shall have leave to introduce said bill?

All those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against?

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Emergency Measures Act," carried. (Bill 5)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the said bill be now read a first time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bill be now read a first time?

All those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against?

Carried.

CLERK: A bill, An Act To Amend The Emergency Measures Act. (Bill 5)

MR. SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a first time. When shall the said bill be read a second time? On tomorrow?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 5 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 9, Bill 16, An Act To Amend The Financial Administration Act.

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled, An Act To Amend The Financial Administration Act. (Bill 16)

Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. the Minister of the Finance and President of Treasury Board shall have leave to introduce said bill?

All those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against?

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Financial Administration Act," carried. (Bill 16)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the said bill be now read a first time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bill be now read a first time?

All those in Favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against?

Carried.

CLERK: A bill, An Act To Amend The Financial Administration Act. (Bill 16)

MR. SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a first time. When shall the said bill be read a second time? On tomorrow?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 16 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 10, Bill 7, An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act, 2000.

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled, An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act, 2000. (Bill 7)

Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board shall have leave to introduce said bill?

All those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against?

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act, 2000," carried. (Bill 7)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the said bill be now read a first time. Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bill be now read a first time?

All those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against?

Carried.

CLERK: A bill, An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act, 2000. (Bill 7)

MR. SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a first time. When shall the said bill be read a second time? On tomorrow?

Tomorrow.

On motion, Bill No. 7 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, before I get to Motion 11, a member just said that she had thought that we had, or I had, made a commitment not to introduce any legislation while the strike was on. Just for her informational purposes, all we are doing here today - and this has been worked out with the Opposition House Leader - is enacting first readings so that we can get bills distributed to you, so that you can have an appropriate amount of time to have an informed debate in the House. We will not be debating legislation. After your thirteen hours of standing, responding to the budgetary motion, some of us are going to get an opportunity to do that today. That is all we are doing today, I say to the member.

Mr. Speaker, Motion 11.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. E. BYRNE: Motion 11, Bill 9, An Act To Revise The Law About The Practice of Optometry.

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled, An Act To Revise The Law About The Practice of Optometry, ( Bill 9).

Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services shall have leave to introduce said bill?

All those in favour, aye.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay.

Motion carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services to introduce a bill, "An Act To Revise The Law About The Practice Of Optometry," carried. ( Bill 9)

MR. SPEAKER: Is it moved and seconded that the said bill be now read a first time. Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bill be now read a first time?

All those in favour, aye.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill, "An Act To Revise The Law About The Practice Of Optometry," (Bill 9).

MR. SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a first time. When shall the said bill be read a second time? On tomorrow?

AN HON. MEMBER: Tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: Tomorrow.

On motion, Bill No. 9 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 12, An Act To Incorporate The Newfoundland And Labrador Centre For Health Information, ( Bill 17)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled, An Act To Incorporate The Newfoundland And Labrador Centre For Health Information, (Bill 17).

Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services shall have leave to introduce said bill?

All those in favour, aye.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay.

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services to introduce a bill, "An Act To Incorporate The Newfoundland And Labrador Centre For Health Information," carried. ( Bill 17)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the said bill be now read a first time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bill be now read a first time?

All those in favour, aye.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill, "An Act To Incorporate The Newfoundland And Labrador Centre For Health Information," (Bill 17).

MR. SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a first time. When shall the said bill be read a second time? On tomorrow?

AN HON. MEMBER: Tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 17 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 13, Bill 11, An Act To Amend The Survival Of Actions Act.

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled, An Act To Amend The Survival Of Actions Act, ( Bill 11).

Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General shall have leave to introduce said bill?

All those in favour, aye.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay.

Carried.

On motion, the hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Survival Of Actions Act," carried. (Bill 11)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the said bill be now read a first time. Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bill be now read a first time?

All those in favour, aye.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill, "An Act To Amend The Survival Of Actions Act." (Bill 11)

MR. SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a first time. When shall the said bill be read a second time? On tomorrow?

AN HON. MEMBER: Yes.

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 11 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 14, Bill 4, "An Act To Amend The Corporations Act."

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of Government Services shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled, An Act To Amend The Corporations Act, (Bill 4). Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. the Minister of Government Services shall have leave to introduce said bill?

All those in favour, aye.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against?

Motion carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Government Services to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Corporations Act," carried. (Bill 4)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the said bill be now read a first time. Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bill be now read a first time?

All those in favour, aye.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill, "An Act To Amend The Corporations Act." (Bill 4)

MR. SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a first time. When shall the said bill be read a second time? On tomorrow?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 4 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 15, Bill l0, "An Act To Amend The Services Charges Act."

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of Government Services shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled, An Act To Amend The Services Charges Act, (Bill 10). Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. the Minister of Government Services shall have leave to introduce said bill?

All those in favour, aye.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay.

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Government Services to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Services Charges Act," carried. (Bill 10)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the said bill be now read a first time. Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bill be now read a first time?

All those in favour, aye.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill, "An Act To Amend The Services Charges Act." (Bill 10).

MR. SPEAKER: This bill is now read a first time. When shall the said bill be read a second time. Now or on tomorrow?

AN HON. MEMBER: Tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 10 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, before I move Motion 1, I am always amused. Last week we were being criticized because we had no legislation. Now we are being criticized by the Opposition because we have it. It is amazing, amazing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Let me say also, Mr. Speaker, that the idle venter from across, saying, you had better not introduce some of that today before we close because we will have some chatter about it, I understand that and this government will provide any and all opportunity for members opposite to chatter about any piece of legislation, but I want to tell members opposite, Mr. Speaker, that this is only the beginning of the legislation. There is more coming. We are doing it in a fashion that has been worked out between myself and the Opposition House Leader so that we can get it done, get it all in members' hands a week or so before we debate it, so that members can have an opportunity to study the legislation, study the bills, discuss the impacts of it, so that we can have an informed debate in this Legislature about legislation.

Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that right after I move Motion 1, we are going to hear from the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. With that, Mr. Speaker I move Motion 1, that this House approves in general the budgetary policy of the government.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the former Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, I only have twenty minutes. I could go an hour, as there is lots to be said, but that is all I can do. I am sure the members opposite would not give me leave to go an hour.

Mr. Speaker, I stand today -

AN HON. MEMBER: No leave for me.

MR. J. BYRNE: I have no doubt, we will get leave on this side.

Mr. Speaker, I stand today to speak to Motion 1, which basically says that we approve, this House approve, in general, the policies of the Budget of this Administration.

Mr. Speaker, I have sat in this House of Assembly for the past number of days listening to the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans speaking for over thirteen hours. I have to compliment her on having the fortitude, I suppose, to be able to stand for thirteen hours; albeit, Mr. Speaker, on different days, but she did go for thirteen hours. Also, Mr. Speaker, she did repeat herself a lot, I would have to say that, but still she said some things that I agree with, and many I did not agree with.

One thing that I will agree with, and I remember her saying on that side of the House of Assembly - she did not say much good about the members on this side of the House, but one she did pick out and compliment was myself, and I thank her for that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: Not that she shouldn't have complimented all members on this side of the House, which would be - I say to the Member for Twillingate: What was that?

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans was on her feet for thirteen hours and said a lot - said a lot - not a lot of content with respect to quality, I suppose, but she made some good points and she beat the former critic for Finance by one to one-and-a-half hours.

Mr. Speaker, we find ourselves, as an Administration, taking over the reins of government in very difficult times in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. It followed fifteen years of Liberal Administration, pretty well fifteen years. We saw many things being done, and when I was on that side of the House I criticized the government of the day for many things that they did - many, many things - and, in particular, the abuse of the Financial Administration Act. For many years they were doing that, would never listen.

The Public Tender Act, Mr. Speaker, how many times did they get up in the House of Assembly and speak on the Public Tender Act and the abuse of the Public Tender Act? Is there any wonder that the Province today is in the state that it is in financially?

We have the Minister of Finance who, when he was on the other side of the House, was questioning the previous Administration day in, day out with respect to their policies and their procedures, and whatever they were doing at that point in time.

Mr. Speaker, when we formed the government, we found out the dire financial situatiton of this Province, and we had to bring down a Budget, and some would say it was a very difficult Budget. For many of us, it was a difficult Budget. We talked long and hard on it, and we had a lot of problems but, Mr. Speaker, we have to look after the future of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

I was a member of the Opposition for ten-and-a-half years. They have a job to do, and they are doing it, but I sometimes question their motives and why they are doing and saying some of the things that they are saying, because we are in a situation in this Province today - and I saw in the House of Assembly last week when we had people in the galleries. I could not believe some of the things that were coming from the other side of the House. Really, Mr. Speaker, they were almost to the point of inciting. That is the way I would describe it. It is shameful, because there are people out there now in the unions who are on the streets. We do not want them on the streets. I certainly do not want them on the streets. I can tell you that as an individual, as a Minister of the Crown, I thought long and hard on this and we did not want to see the public service hit the streets, by any stretch of the imagination.

We have questions coming from the other side of the House, and rightly so, but I think they should be kind of tempering their questions, especially when there are people in the galleries, Mr. Speaker. They should not be looking to incite people. That is from my own personal perspective.

The Budget, Mr. Speaker, came down here and there are a lot of good things in the Budget.

MR. JOYCE: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: The Member for the Bay of Islands is up now, Mr. Speaker, on the other side of the House, interjecting as he normally does. He will have his time to get up and speak to the Budget. There is no doubt about that. We, on this side of the House, will give lots of time for all members on the other side of the House to speak to the Budget.

Mr. Speaker, we have a Budget brought down that we thought was a difficult Budget, there was no doubt. There are some good things in the Budget. It is not all negative, Mr. Speaker. There are many good things in the Budget. I will get to them possibly today, and, if not today, when we speak on the Budget itself, but I want to talk about a few things within my department today. One is, of course, we have had a lot of attention from some of the municipalities with respect to the Municipal Operating Grants.

I, as a former mayor of a small town, understand the importance of the Municipal Operating Grants. We saw the previous Administration basically cutting the Municipal Operating Grants from $48 million down to $21 million. When we came this year and each department were looking at their financial situation to prepare the Budget, and looking at the programs, I thought long and hard on municipal operating. I did not want to go there. I really did not want to go there because I knew the importance of the Municipal Operating Grants to the smaller municipalities. We decided, basically, I decided, then, to look at what was the best way. If we are going to have to address reductions in the Municipal Operating Grants, what is the fairest way to address it, to implement it? We decided, over three years, to cut the Municipal Operating Grants by approximately $5 million.

Then we looked and said: What municipalities can absorb the impact of this? Then again, we looked at the tax growth of the municipalities involved. There are some fourteen municipalities that will be impacted by this, Municipal Operating Grants, and the larger municipalities are getting the biggest impact. For example, St. John's is going to be hit with some $900,000. Then, when you look at St. John's and the potential for growth in this region, and their municipal assessments, in the most recent municipal assessment, I think, they went up by millions of dollars. We have the industry growth in the Northeast Avalon, in and around St. John's, so they would be impacted.

If you look at the Municipal Operating Grants themselves, the total amount, Mr. Speaker, is $21 million. The fourteen municipalities that are impacted take up half of that, or $10.8 million. Of that $10.8 million, they have a total budget of $272 million amongst them all, the fourteen municipalities. So, in actual fact, the $10.8 million is very little when you look at the overall amount and the impact is going to be less than 1 per cent on those fourteen municipalities. When you look at it from that perspective, I think it was the fairest thing to do.

In the election, and leading up to the election, we spoke often about what we wanted to do for rural Newfoundland, how we would try to revitalize rural Newfoundland. In the Budget, we had the minister talk about a Rural Secretariat that is going to be put in place, that is in place, to help revitalize rural Newfoundland to try and create some industry in rural Newfoundland and not to have the municipalities just depend on the Municipal Operating Grants. Some of the municipalities out there - many, Mr. Speaker - are in debt, up to their ears, really, if you want to look at it. I mean, I was shocked. I could not believe it when I went into the department and saw some of the debt that is owed by these municipalities. The debt ratio for some is 30 per cent, 40 per cent, 50 per cent, 60 per cent, 70 per cent. As a matter of act, there are municipalities out there that are up to 100 per cent debt ratio. So, basically, if they take in $100,000 as their revenue, they have to pay out $100,000. So, where do they get the money to run the towns?

I understand the need of the Municipal Operating Grants for rural Newfoundland. From that perspective, one of the good things in the Budget, Mr. Speaker - and I fought hard for this one, to get it, because the Province is in a very difficult financial situation, as the Minister of Finance has said, as the Premier has said, and ministers on this side. We went after some debt relief.

Now the previous Administration, I have to say, brought in the Debt Relief Program and it was a good program. They spent some $47 million over a number of years to help municipalities in the Province to reduce their debt, so I wanted to continue that. The money had been used up, and I wanted to continue that. What we did - yes, we are taking away $5 million from the municipalities that can best absorb it, but in the Budget we have $9 million for debt relief. Now, this money will go towards the smaller municipalities that have a lot of debt, that really cannot operate. I can almost say, I suppose, they are on the verge of bankruptcy. This $9 million will go and assist some twenty-six municipalities. We have a list done up now. We are looking at municipalities and we are going to be talking with the municipalities, the smaller towns in various districts all around this Province. We are not looking at it from a political perspective, because that is why we are in the situation we are in today, Mr. Speaker. In the past, in this Province, since 1949, all parties, not just one or the other, have looked at doing things, especially around election time - lets do this, lets do that, lets do this, spending money and putting money in places where it should never have been spent in the first place. These municipalities now are up to their ears in debt, as I said, and it was done for political reasons.

What we are going to be doing, Mr. Speaker, is looking at the towns that need this money most, regardless of where they are, what district they are in or what political party their member, whom they have voted into this House of Assembly, is supporting. We are going to start doing things right. Across this Province, we are going to be putting money in where it is needed the most. That is the idea that we have on this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, and it is long, long overdue.

Nine million dollars for municipalities for debt relief, as I said, will assist some twenty-six municipalities and will reduce their debt by 50, 60, 70, 80 or 100 per cent, maybe, in some cases, municipalities that cannot afford it. That is a good thing in itself. You know, it is not all negative when it comes to the Budget.

Mr. Speaker, when we came in here and the Minister of Finance stated that, on an accrual basis, we have over $800 million in debt in this Province for one year for 500,000 people, I mean, it is just not sustainable. People out there, I think, are starting to realize this, that we have to get our house in order.

During the election, for example, Mr. Speaker, the Opposition, which was the government of the day, were saying that we were going to cut the civil service, we are going to layoff thousands and thousands and thousands of people. What we said at that time - and we were elected on this - was that we would look at the civil service and in the next number of years, five years approximately, there are going to some 5,000 to 6,000 leave the public service and we will look to reduce the public service, through attrition.

It was only last week, Mr. Speaker, I heard a public figure on the radio waves saying that he felt so bad the other night when those 4,000 families got their layoff notices. There is nothing could be further from the truth. Four thousand people didn't get their layoff notices. That is going to be happening over the next number of years. Obviously, Mr. Speaker, there are positions within the civil service that, if they retire tomorrow, those positions have to be replaced. There are no ifs, ands or buts about that. But there are some out there that we can look at. For example, if a nurse retired tomorrow over at the Health Sciences Centre, do you think that nurse is not going to be replaced? I mean, lets get real here. If a snowplow operator retires this evening or if his time to retire comes in January or February, you mean to say, Mr. Speaker, that person is not going to be replaced? Really! I think there has been a lot of fearmongering going on over the past number of weeks, and it is too bad.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Some people got their notices, yes. There are some people who may have gotten their notices but it was not in the thousands. Maybe here or there throughout the civil service, but what they are trying to say on the opposite side of the House, Mr. Speaker, is that 4,000 people got their layoff notices. It did not happen, and not going to happen, Mr. Speaker, by any stretch of the imagination. It is shameful for people to be putting that out there; to be fearmongering as they are.

The previous administration had said many times - I remember on that side of the House - that they had balanced budgets, Mr. Speaker. They had balanced budgets.

MR. E. BYRNE: Not one.

MR. J. BYRNE: Not one balanced Budget did they have, I say to the Member for Kilbride; not one.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: The Member for Bay of Islands said they had one. He is agreeing with me now, Mr. Speaker. A number of times they said they had balanced budgets.

How many times, Mr. Speaker, did they say they had a balanced Budget? It was not by any stretch of the imagination, especially when you look at the accrual basis of doing the books. It is all, I suppose, in how you look at things in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador these days.

We, on this side of the House, will try over the next number of years - in the next four years, as the government, try and bring in a true balanced Budget. When we get there, Mr. Speaker, can you imagine the hundreds of millions of dollars that is being spent on interest now for the debt of this Province, how far that could go to paying public service? Seriously, Mr. Speaker. We cannot do it today - hundreds of millions of dollars, how far could that go to hiring doctors, hiring nurses, hiring civil servants throughout the public sector? Hundreds of millions of dollars that is being spent today to pay down our debt. Now the interest, not the principal, the interest on the debt in this Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Again, we need to get our house in order.

As I said, Mr. Speaker, I can go on and on, on this but there are a few things that I would like to say and it is in the Budget Highlights, if anybody would want to see it. Look at some of the positive things in the Budget, Mr. Speaker. Let's talk about a few of the positive things for a change, I say to the members. There are some over there saying, what positive things? Well, I will tell you some now. I am just looking at one here now, the RNC, who over the past number of years have been cut to the bone; driving around in vehicles that were not safe to be on the road in this Province, Mr. Speaker.

MR. MANNING: Could not even get a set of tires.

MR. J. BYRNE: That is right, could not get a set of tires. Vests that they had were like ten, fifteen, twenty years old. They were outdated with respect to the safety of them. They had the - the numbers themselves, Mr. Speaker - the uniforms. You see the RNC going around with their uniforms, especially their dress uniforms. All kinds of issues. They were completely neglected. When people retired they were not replaced in the civil service.

By the way, Mr. Speaker, we are up-front with the people in Newfoundland and Labrador. The previous administration had a policy in place over the past number of years, by the way, Mr. Speaker, that if someone retired they were not replaced. They did not tell the people that, no. They would not tell them that. We are being up-front and telling the people this, Mr. Speaker. At least we are being honest with the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

As I said, one good thing in the Budget, the RNC; over three years seventy-five officers training in Newfoundland and Labrador. Creating jobs there, Mr. Speaker, and equipment -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Pardon? Do you have a problem? You do not want us to do that?

Mr. Speaker, in health, "An investment of $1 million for community mental health..." That is coming out of the Reid-Power Inquiry.

A very serious situation in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador developed over the years, and I will tell you what happened. Again, the previous administration, when they decided - Mr. Speaker, the previous administration decided that they were going to go to community health, and they did not do their proper homework beforehand and put the infrastructure in place for community health, and let the people go out and not have the infrastructure in place, and we saw the results of that. So, we have $1 million going to that. Not nearly enough, Mr. Speaker, not nearly enough, but it shows where our priorities are. It shows that we are going to go down that road, when we get our financial house in order, that there will be more money pumped into that.

We have, "$8.6 million increase in the Drug Program to over $106 million..." - an extra $8.6 million.

"Funding for additional social workers for Labrador." Now, Mr. Speaker, that is a positive thing. I know out there, because I know many people in the social work field and -

MR. SPEAKER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: One minute left is all. The Speaker is saying I have one minute left.

Mr. Speaker, the social work field; the social workers out there are maxed out, they are stressed, they are overloaded - the work cases, you know. Then again, we only have so much money. There are people listening, I say to the people out there. When it comes to the social work field, there is people listening. As we put our house in order there will be funds, I am sure, become available to do that, Mr. Speaker. No problem on that. It will come in due course, and hopefully sooner than later.

"200,000 to assist the new Ministerial Advisory Council for Aging and Seniors to ensure that the needs and concerns of seniors are properly understood and addressed." Now, Mr. Speaker, we all know in Newfoundland, and in Canada actually, that we have an aging society. The seniors, of course, paid their dues. They have been paying taxes for years and years and years, and what kind of a society are we if we cannot take care of our seniors and our young and our sick?

Other things, Education, $22 million to be spent on new school construction in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Again, positive.

We do not hear too much about this from the Opposite side, "Help for Those Who Need it Most." Commencing in the 2005 taxation year there is going to be a tax credit for individuals with $12,000 income and families with $19,000. So, they will have to pay no taxes. I think that is a good step. I think that is pretty positive. Again, I would love to see it higher. I would love to see it - a progressive move, a very progressive move. I would love to see it higher, and maybe in years to come that will be increased to $12,020 or $13,020 or $14,000 or $21,000 as time goes by. We will put it up in increments over the years.

Here is one: $500,000 grant for the Kids Eat Smart Foundation. Many people, I would assume, thought that would be gone this year, but no, we kept that in, Mr. Speaker, for the Kids Eat Smart. It is money well spent.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I could go on but I am sure there are people who may want to speak on the other side. When the Budget Debate comes up, I will get up to speak and make some more comments on this very positive Budget from the perspective of good things in the Budget. There is some hard stuff too, but we can only do what we can afford at this point in time.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand today to speak on the Budget Debate. It is interesting to hear my colleague, the hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, get up and speak to the merits of this Budget. I am sure you will understand that I have to stand and speak to the questionable aspects of this Budget, and there are many of them, Mr. Speaker.

First, I want to talk about all of the measures that were supposedly taken to reduce the size of Cabinet and to make a more efficient government. It is interesting when you look at the decisions that were taken, Mr. Speaker, because I think they impact negatively on significant components of our Province. For instance, we look at the Department of Education. We used to have a Department of Youth and Post-Secondary Education. Now, of course, it is combined in one department. We used to have a separate Department of Labour, very much needed in this Province, especially when you look at what is happening now and the twelve-day-old strike that is going on. I think, clearly, we need to have a strong Department of Labour with strong leadership. That department now, of course, has been put in with Human Resources and Employment. We look at the Department of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development. Interestingly enough, where we had one Department of Industry, Trade and Rural Development, we now have two departments. We have a Department of Business, led by the Premier himself, and a Department of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development. Interesting, that would be the one area that they would choose to, in fact, take a department, break it up and create two instead of going with the one department. If they were looking for efficiencies, that is an area there where they certainly could have realized more efficiencies.

When I look at this new Department of Business, I have yet to see a vision. I have yet to read a vision. I have yet to hear a vision espoused by either the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development or the man who himself is leading up that department, and that is the Premier, who is the Minister Responsible for the new Department of Business. So, I guess, when I look to the future of Newfoundland and Labrador and I look at the whole idea behind growing the economy, and the commentary that we hear all the time about, you know, what the Premier is going to do based on his business experience in terms of growing the economy, I have yet to hear anyone talk about exactly what it is he is going to do. I suppose one of the things that he has indicated is this new department of Newfoundland and Labrador Federal-Provincial Relations Office in Ottawa. Now, what that is meant to do to grow the economy, I would say again is questionable and whether or not it is even necessary. You are talking the first outlay of expenditure for this new department is something to the tune of $350,000 and we still do not know what it is meant to accomplish. Even though in the Budget it referred to, you know, equalization payments, transfers, natural resources, trying to get a better deal for Newfoundland and Labrador, as far as I know we still have seven MPs in Ottawa representing us very ably in the federal government, so I question whether or not this department is meant to replace those seven. Certainly heavens, why would we be duplicating services? Why would we be allocating $350,000 for an office in Ottawa when we have seven MPs there who are tasked with doing the very sorts of things that the Budget refers to this new department of federal-provincial relations doing for us in Ottawa.

I have to question the Budget with respect to business again because when you look at the fee increases - and Bradley George who, of course, has written a column in the local paper here talks about the fee increases and the negative impact they will have on small business. Those of us who know our Province well, especially rural Newfoundland and Labrador, know that small business is, in fact, the backbone of our economy; that while we have large initiatives, while we have Voisey's Bay, while we have White Rose, at some point in time they are going to end. They are not going to be with us forever, but small business will be with us forever. Manufacturing will be with us forever, if we treat it right and if we make sure that we have rules and regulations in place that are very friendly towards small business. So, when I see fee increases to the magnitude that we saw in this Budget, it is bothersome because it will have a negative impact on small business. It will have a negative impact on the people in Newfoundland and Labrador. As Mr. George has said, it is a tax grab by any other word. Of course, the Premier obviously played words with this one by suggesting, as did the Minister of Finance, that there were no tax increases. Well, I can tell you that from everyone I have spoken with in Newfoundland and Labrador, the suggestion that you are going to increase the fee for ambulance, the fact that you are going to increase the fee for a private room, the fact that you are going to increase a fee for a semi-private room, the fact that you are going to increase the cost of a medical escort, if the doctor suggests that you need to have one with you when you go to hospital, these are all substantial fee increases and affect the most vulnerable in our society.

I do not know about the members opposite, but my knowledge of anyone who is looking to go into a private room in hospital, or a semi-private room in hospital, are usually very, very ill and want and need their privacy. All of a sudden now we are looking at a substantial increase in the amount that a person will have to pay. In fact, let's look at an ambulance.

An ambulance will now cost $115 one way. That is up from $75. That is a 53 per cent increase. In addition, if it is determined that you require a medical escort, that cost has gone from $25 one way to $50 one way, a 100 per cent increase. So, if you are taking an ambulance and a doctor has determined that you need a medical escort with you, that has now gone up by 65 per cent under this government. That is really a lot to expect people to be able to pay: people on fixed incomes, people who are on social services, people who are the working poor. It is a lot to expect anyone to pay, but it does in fact impact on the most vulnerable.

If you look at the fee increases, at one point it did cost you something to get a birth certificate. Of course, that has not changed but now you have to pay $25 for a death certificate. So, they get you coming and they get you going, either way you look at it. In addition, if you look at the cost of the private and semi-private rooms, semi-private accommodations have gone from $60 a day to $85 a day, and private accommodations from $75 a day to $100 a day.

Once again it shows a lack of compassion by this government for yet the most vulnerable in our society. The fact that we have people who are sick, who may require private accommodations, who may require semi-private accommodations, not because they do not want to be with anyone else on a ward in a hospital, but because they may very well have no choice.

Fee increases, whether it is in the parks - and we have seen their fees have gone up substantially there. Whether it is to licence a motor vehicle, again you are impacting most people with fixed incomes and the most vulnerable in our society.

I listened to the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs speak, when he spoke about the fact that you are not cutting 4,000 jobs. No, he is right, but there are 4,000 positions that are in fact being let go. When you think that those jobs will no longer exist, that does, whether you want to accept it or not, mean that there are 4,000 jobs that will not be there for people to fill. In fact, you are impacting on 4,000 families. It is not just the person who would hold that job. It is their families, it is their extended families, all of them who will be impacted by this decision.

I feel today, as I did when the Budget came down, that we have students who are graduating from our post-secondary institutions who really will have to look outside of this Province to find employment. That is so unfortunate. Here we are trying to grow the economy, here we are trying to make it possible for our young people to stay in Newfoundland and Labrador, and these are the leaders, these are the people to whom we will be looking down the road to be where you and I are today: to, in fact, make decisions that impact on this Province. They are our future. At the end of the day, the decisions that we have taken, or the government has taken, with respect to the Budget -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I was wondering if we could have a little more quiet. It is difficult for the Chair to hear what the hon. member is saying in this very important debate.

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate your observation in terms of the level of noise in the House today.

It is important, I think, for us to recognize again the impact that the Budget decisions will have on our young people, on the post-secondary students whom we are all encouraging all the time to go to post-secondary institutions. We are always saying to them that no longer is a high school diploma enough if they want to get a job. We are always encouraging them to get a post-secondary education. In a lot of cases they need more than one degree. What are they going to face when they get out? They are going to face the fact that they have to leave Newfoundland and Labrador and move away. Just as we were at the stage where, in fact, we had reduced out-migration, where people were, in fact, coming home to work. What are they going to find now? That job is no longer here. That is so unfortunate because, I repeat, we need those young people among us.

We talk about an aging population. We talk about treating our seniors with respect. Well, you know, we have to treat our young people with respect as well. We have to find ways and means of keeping them among us so that we will not have an aging population, so that Newfoundland and Labrador will once again be that vibrant Province where people will want to come and live, where they will, in fact, be able to find employment, and will be able to attract others to come in and share their expertise as well.

Another area that is cause for concern as a result of this Budget is the impact of decisions having been taken by the government in terms of our cultural industries. The fact that you have taken an opportunity here to really harm the cultural industries in our Province; because, when you look at the Art Procurement Program, a very good, substantial program, a program that was put in place to not only support and help our artists but, at the same time, to grow the industry, because, you see, in a lot of cases this is Newfoundland art. It is so important for us to preserve our culture. A lot of our artists, in fact, always looked forward to their procurement program. They were always excited about the opportunity to put in submissions, hoping that at the end of the day the government Art Procurement Program, with the board that was put in place to select from the submissions, would, in fact, select their piece of artwork. It was a good program and I know that it has been cut, but I hope that it is not being cut permanently. You know, one year of cuts to that program can have a devastating impact on our artists.

I heard Pam Hall, a very well-known local artist, lament the fact that this program's being cut for this year will have devastating results for her. She may now have to move out of the Province. A lot of artists look to that program, in fact, to be able to continue with their work, which is so important for Newfoundland and Labrador, because everyone knows that of all of the provinces in Canada we are the most culturally rich and we have so much to offer. We have an abundance of artists, whether they are graphic artists, whether they are writers or artists themselves, in terms of a watercolor or oils or you name it. We have a wealth of artists among us and I would hate to see measures being taken that will harm that. I am afraid that what has happened to the Art Procurement Program will do just that.

Then, of course, we look at The Rooms, and we are hearing constantly about what a bad decision that was. You are talking about how it is a way of saving $1 million, but in the long run, I can tell you, the impact that this will have on the preservation of our materials, everything we have been striving to do to find a location suitable for ensuring that all of our artifacts are preserved - it is just going to have a devastating impact. Right now, as a result of decisions taken by this government, there is nowhere for artists to display. A lot of the things have been packed and gone into storage and no travelling exhibits. Where are they going to showcase? It is a devastating decision and, again, I cannot understand why the government would make a decision that would have such a devastating impact on the culture of Newfoundland and Labrador.

The fact that The Rooms was ready to open in June: I cannot imagine what could have gone into the decision, just two month in advance, to find a way of not opening it, when everything was up and ready to go. It is sad and it is really regrettable, Mr. Speaker, that that wonderful building that so much work has gone into, it is not going to happen.

I need to go back again to speak, in the bit of time I have left, about rural Newfoundland and Labrador and the so-called rural secretariat. While it has been thrown out there as a way of working and trying to find a way to rejuvenate rural Newfoundland and Labrador, I have yet to see any kind of explanation of what it is supposed to do, how it is going to work, who is going to be involved and how it is going to interrelate with the Regional Economic Development Boards. Of course, these boards themselves are very grassroots oriented, included people from all parts of our economy, from municipalities and from education. It was very good structure. It could use with some refinement, I would expect, after being in place for a number of years, but I am not sure what is planned for the so-called Rural Secretariat. I do know that Dr. House is over in the Department of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development. I am not quite sure what his role is. Well, he is a deputy minister but I did hear that he spoke out in Corner Brook and I am just a little concerned if the policy that he espouses is, in fact, the policy of this government when it comes to Newfoundland and Labrador, let alone rural Newfoundland and Labrador. The fact that he is the deputy minister in his Department of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development really is cause for concern if what he is espousing with respect to unemployment insurance or sick leave, or you name it, I would say that there is concern Province-wide in terms of whether or not his thinking will play a significant part in this Rural Secretariat.

We know that Dr. House has been around a long time, and a fine gentleman that he is, but I think it was twelve years ago that he was on the scene in terms of making a contribution to Newfoundland and Labrador from an economic perspective, and I would hate to think that after twelve years we now have a plan that has been dusted off, or Dr. House has been dusted off, and brought back in the system, and I am wondering where that is going to lead us in the long run. I am very concerned about that. I am very concerned about rural Newfoundland and Labrador. I am concerned that there is an emphasis by this government to centralize government offices, to centralize government services.

I just for a minute speak to the whole idea of taking the HR&E offices and reducing them where, in fact, we are taking twenty offices out of the system, and that concerns me. At this point, the minister has indicated she does not know where those offices are coming from, which concerns me a great deal. Obviously, I would think that anyone who would be heading up a department would know six months into that department where exactly those offices are going to be taken from. I expect that in Grand Bank, as in Bay L'Argent and other offices where they have few, maybe four employees, fewer than four employees, in fact we could see those offices go by the wayside, and you end up centralizing those offices meaning that where you would see an office exist in that region would be in Marystown.

What you would end up doing is seeing a lot of those services and offices being centralized. That is a serious issue for us. It is an issue because we recognized, when we were there as a government, the need to decentralize; the need to get our government services out around the Province; the need to make sure that the services were where the people could access them and not be centralized. That is an issue for us as well, and I would like to think that the government will consider some of those moves. Again, it is in the Budget. It was one of many decisions that I think will have a negative impact on rural Newfoundland and Labrador. If we want rural Newfoundland and Labrador to continue to exist, then we have to work with rural parts of our Province. I am afraid that what I am seeing is a move away from doing just that.

As a government, when we were there, we did a lot to involve people in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. Again, we decentralized government services. We went out of our way to do everything we could to give them a hand up, not a hand out. At the end of the day people respected that. They knew they were being consulted and they were part of a process and that they had something to offer. We really appreciated that and they appreciated the opportunity to make a contribution.

I am afraid, Mr. Speaker, that is not happening today. If it is, no one knows about it.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MS FOOTE: Thank you.

Just to clue up? Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I am afraid we are not hearing anything positive from this government. The whole idea of making sure that we have measures in place to work with rural Newfoundland and Labrador, somehow that is not there. It is not even on the radar screen. Everything out there is doom and gloom; everything you hear in terms of what the Premier says. I have heard very little from the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development, so I am not quite sure where they are going in terms of any kind of vision but, Mr. Speaker, I have to say, if this is the new approach, it is a failed approach already.

Thank you so much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am certainly pleased to have the opportunity today to stand and say a few words on Motion 1. I certainly listened with interest to the hon. member opposite as she went through the Budget that we have just presented to the House of Assembly and to the people of the Province.

I find it interesting, Mr. Speaker, I find it very interesting, some of the comments that the hon. member passed, after spending so many years in government, on this side of the House, to think that for some reason or other it is all brand new and we are trying to reinvent the wheel.

What we are trying to do, Mr. Speaker, is to correct some of the problems that the Province has at the present time in relation to our fiscal capabilities to deliver services to the people of the Province. A lot of those, Mr. Speaker, were part and parcel of the government that the hon. member was part of, over the past number of years.

Mr. Speaker, we have put forward a Budget, and while each budget has concerns and issues with different people in different parts of the Province, we believe that we put together a fair Budget that at least addresses some of the concerns that we have. When we look at a situation, Mr. Speaker, where this year, in the 2004-2005 fiscal year, the deficit of this Province will reach almost $1 billion, almost $1 billion, and, in the next three years, $1.1 billion, $1.12 billion and $1.15 billion, unless we take an opportunity to address some of the concerns that we are going to do.

That is what we are trying to do with this Budget. We are trying to make sure that the people of Newfoundland and Labrador receive the services that they require on a day-to-day basis, but at the same time take an opportunity to address the fiscal situation that we are all faced with in this Province, and it is everybody's concern. It is the concern of the people on this side of the House, I am sure it is the concern of the people of the other side of the House, and indeed the people throughout Newfoundland and Labrador. We have put forward, Mr. Speaker, many different avenues that we hope will be able to address some of these concerns.

When I look at the District of Placentia & St. Mary's, which is no different, I am sure, than many other districts in the Province, we have concerns and we have issues in that district, Mr. Speaker, such as education, health care, roads, and I would like to take the opportunity, if I could today, to touch on a few of those. I am going to start with education, Mr. Speaker.

In the community, in the Town of Placentia, the combined councils, the school councils of the area, put forward a proposal to the Avalon West School Board which would see a new high school for that area, and certainly over the next little while we hope to impress upon the minister and the government and put forward the concerns of the people in the area and see the need for that new high school. It has been a coming together of sorts in the town, and it is certainly something we are all looking forward to.

A couple of weeks ago, I had the hon. the Minister of Education out into Placentia, the Town of Placentia. We visited the three schools in question, and I also had a visit to the College of the North Atlantic. Certainly it gave him an opportunity to see first-hand the concerns that the parents, the teachers and the school community have in that area, and hopefully over the next little while, as money becomes available, we will have the opportunity to address that very important concern that the people in the Town of Placentia put forward.

There are educational needs in other parts of my district, Mr. Speaker. We have, over the past number of years, watched as the schools in St. Mary's Bay amalgamated into two: Dunne Memorial Academy and St. Catherine's Academy and out of the Cape Shore we have Fatima Academy. You know, they are of a rural nature and certainly some major concerns were put forward in relation to teacher allocation, in relation to programs that would be available to the people there, and hopefully as a member of government we will be able to put forward the concerns of the school communities in that area and bring forward the needs that need to be addressed in education, in the District of Placentia & St. Mary's.

Mr. Speaker, in regard to health care, I was very pleased as a member of government to see many new initivatives in health care put forward by the government, and I would just like to touch on a few, if I could today, that will have repercussions for the people in my district, as in most districts who have an aging population. One thing that many of our older people, the seniors of our districts and the seniors of our Province, are facing is the high cost of drugs and medication. The government put $8.6 million more into the drug program this year, for a total of $106 million. That is certainly a great initiative, I believe, in trying to address the high cost of drugs and mediation that especially our seniors find themselves on, and hopefully this will bring down the cost that our seniors have to deal with. It is certainly something that we hope to be able to address.

Also, Mr. Speaker, government provided a new chemotherapy drug to help fight cancer; $800,000 was allocated to supply Gleevac. We all have, over the years, had family and friends who have been inflicted by cancer in some way or the other. I believe any initiative put forward by this government, or any government for that matter, to help address and to help alleviate some of the pain that comes with those who find themselves with cancer, I think is a positive move and certainly one that I was proud of as a member of government, to see government come forward and provide the $800,000 for Gleevac. Hopefully, it will be a drug that will ease some of the pain that we find people suffer when they attract cancer, Mr. Speaker.

Another concern, Mr. Speaker, as I said before, we have an aging population throughout the Province. Indeed, in my district, it seems - I suppose in everybody's district - we have more aging people than others, but everybody is suffering the same thing. Government's initiative to put $200,000 into "...the new Ministerial Advisory Council for Aging and Seniors to ensure that the needs and concerns of seniors are properly understood and addressed. Government will also establish a Division of Aging and Seniors in the Department of Health and Community Services."

Again, Mr. Speaker, I think this is a very positive move that will address the concerns that will give the seniors of our Province, and indeed, the seniors of Placentia & St. Mary's District a voice; an opportunity to have their concerns aired, an opportunity to make sure that the issues which face all the seniors in our district, in regards to trying to meet their basic needs, will be addressed. That will give an opportunity, through the Department of Health and Community Services, to do that. It will give government an opportunity to hear those concerns and issues that are out there, and therefore implement policies, develop policies that will address those concerns. We certainly look forward to being part of that over the next little while, Mr. Speaker.

Also, Mr. Speaker, as most Newfoundlanders and Labradorians know, the Reid-Power Inquiry has certainly brought forward many, many issues and concerns with people in the Province. Government saw a need that was brought forward in that inquiry in regard to mental health services. Again, government responded with $1 million into that. Hopefully, that will begin to address some of the problems that we are facing in regards to mental health in this Province. I am sure that most people out in the Province would agree that was a good initiative also.

Like I say, Mr. Speaker, there is always a long list of those who need and want from government services. We try our best to provide that under the fiscal situation that we find ourselves in. Again, I believe the Budget had the opportunity to look at those who are most in need.

We see a couple of initiatives in the Budget that I felt were very positive. "Commencing in the 2005 taxation year a Low Income Tax Credit will be instituted; individuals with net income up to $12,000 and families with net income up to $19,000 will pay no provincial personal income tax." Mr. Speaker, I think it is a great initiative. An extra several hundred dollars into the pockets of those who need it most in our Province. While some people may shuck that off, an extra $400, $500, $600 or $800 into the pockets of those who are most needy in our Province, I think, again, is a very positive initiative and one that I am very pleased to see come forward.

Also, I have watched over the past number of years an organization in my district, Mr. Speaker, named Genesis set up to help those which support employment, and certainly, that government sees that initiative as a positive initiative. That initiative is something we need to enhance, and we put forward $400,000 to expand those services and a great opportunity, I think, once again to do that.

Mr. Speaker, we can on and on. I certainly think another one of the positive initiatives that was put forward by the government in the Budget was the opportunity to train seventy-five new RNC officers. While the RNC does not service the District of Placentia & St. Mary's, there are several RNC officers who come from my district who have made a career and made a life in the RNC. This initiative by our government gives the opportunity for more young people to have an opportunity to partake in that career. Hopefully, over the next little while, they will be able to train here in this Province. To have the initiative of this government to put forward the funds required to train our young people to be able to serve in the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary, I think, is another positive move by government and certainly an opportunity, as I said, for young people coming out of high school today, or people who are at MUN at the present time or some other post-secondary institution in our Province, an opportunity for them to be able to partake in the forty-five new RNC officers that are going to be hired by the year 2007-2008. Certainly, money that is allocated for the new vehicles for the RNC and other equipment that is required by the force to provide the services that they provide to the people in the area is certainly a positive move, I believe, by the department.

Mr. Speaker, a new Department of Business will be established, led by the Premier, an annual budget of $1 million. Small businesses is the core of Newfoundland and Labrador, and a very important part of rural Newfoundland and Labrador is small businesses. I think that is an opportunity, once again, and I am looking forward to seeing that new Department of Business set up and see how the parameters will be put forward so that the opportunities for small business throughout our area will be certainly addressed.

Also, one of the main things, and certainly a big issue in my district and I am sure in many districts all across the House, is the situation with roads. We have had an opportunity over the past number of years to see many improvements to roads throughout Newfoundland and Labrador that come under the guise of different programs, such as: the Trunk Roads program, the strategic plan for the Trans-Canada Highway, the Roads for Rail Agreement - which, by the way, were all signed under a former Tory Administration. We have seen millions and millions of dollars spent in this Province over the past number of years and we look forward to seeing more money funded. We have seen a lack, over the past number of years, of a new federal-provincial agreement to address some of the road conditions in this Province. What do you expect? What do you expect, when you go up to Ottawa with a billion dollar plan, to look for $1 billion from the federal government to put into roads in this Province and you present a power point presentation that even an MP for Labrador, at the time, said he had a better presentation from the town of Pinsent Arm looking for a main road to be done in their community than they had for $1 billion to look from the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. That responsibility lies with the minister, and I am not sure who the minister was at the time. I am not 100 per cent sure who the minister was at the time. But, Mr. Speaker, when you go to Ottawa to look for $1 billion, I think you should have your facts done and have your homework done. Therefore, if that would have been done properly we would have road work in this Province this year, Mr. Speaker.

We took the opportunity in our Budget to increase the provincial roads program from $23 million up to $30 million, of our own coffers. At the same time, we are without a federal-provincial roads program because the former minister - it just came to my mind who that is. The former minister, the Member for Bellevue failed in his attempt to go to Ottawa to bring a federal-provincial agreement. It is a shame! They had an opportunity with their cousins in Ottawa, with so-called cousins in Ottawa, where they had an opportunity to go there to put forward a consensus for a federal-provincial agreement and try to come back with $1 billion. What did they do? They sent up a power point presentation that lacked the fundamental homework, that lacked the fundamental information which was required by the federal government to make that initiative in the road work in this Province. Just last year we spent the last of the Roads for Rail Agreement and we are still without a provincial roads program because the former Minister of Transportation sat on his backside and just waited and waited for them to come with the plan, instead of going to them with the plan and putting forward - he just could not get along with his cousins in Ottawa. Now he has the audacity to stand on that side of the House and accuse us of not putting enough money into the roads in this Province, Mr. Speaker, when we are crippled by the debt that these people have left across the way. We are trying to address that in whatever way we can.

Mr. Speaker, I would just like to touch on the concerns in road work in my district. The access road to Fox Harbour and Ship Harbour, in my district, needs work. Hopefully, we will be able to address some of that concern. Through the Town of Placentia, the portion known as Ferndale and up through Jersey Side, down Jersey Side hill and up through the Town of Placentia and out through the community of Point Verde, all that needs work, Mr. Speaker, and hopefully over the next little while we will be able to address some of those concerns. I was in that way on the weekend, and there are certainly some major concerns with road work in that district.

Out on the Cape Shore area, we have places like Barasway hill, through the community of Branch, throughout the whole Cape Shore area from Barasway out to Branch and indeed, down into Point Lance. The road down to Point Lance is out of hand, Mr. Speaker. It is treacherous to the travelling public. We certainly hope to be able to address some of that. In the community of Point Lance itself - we measured that off. We have talked to the minister on it and hopefully we will get to address some of those concerns this coming construction season.

When you go into St. Mary's Bay, Mr. Speaker, out through the town of North Harbour to Colinet, much road work is required. Down through the town of Mount Carmel, right down in St. Joseph's, O'Donnells, Admirals Beach and throughout St. Mary's Bay. We need work on the Salmonier Line. Certainly, Mr. Speaker, from the intersection to St. Joseph's area down into Riverhead, St. Mary's, there is some major work needed. We have seen a lack of work there over the last number of years. The concerns of the people in that area have been put forward to the minister and the department and we look forward to having some of those concerns addressed, and not a band-aid solution but a plan to address that concern over the next three or four years, to be able to improve the road. Not only for the travelling public, Mr. Speaker, but indeed I have had concerns raised with me from people in the area in regard to emergency vehicles driving back and forth and so on, and, indeed, for promotion of tourism in that area. Certainly we have seen a lot of activity in tourism over the past number of years and we need a proper road network in order to be able to do that.

We cannot leave out the Town of Mall Bay which has an eight kilometer gravel road which needs some work, especially on the hills. We will talk to the minister on that. I invited the minister down to the district for a visit and hopefully over the next couple of weeks we can get to do that and he will certainly be able to see first-hand the needs that are there. I am sure, when he sees first-hand the needs that are there, from the concerns I have raised and the issues and concerns that have been raised by people in the district, he will see the need to address some of those concerns. I certainly look forward to having some work done in the district on the roads this year. I was very pleased to see an extra $7 million put into the provincial roads program to make some improvements to the roads in the districts, Mr. Speaker.

One of the major activities in my district this year, Mr. Speaker, is the French celebrations, the 2004 celebrations, which are being mostly centered in the Town of Placentia. I was very pleased to see in the Budget $150,000 allotted for the French heritage celebration. I have had discussions with the minister on availing of some of that money for the people in my district, to be able to deliver a program they have put forward in relation to celebrating that 500 years. It is certainly an opportunity to showcase the Town of Placentia, and especially to showcase the French capital of Newfoundland and Labrador, Plaisance. We look forward to being able to do that with the money that is put forward in the Budget, Mr. Speaker.

We find there are many initiatives, many concerns, Mr. Speaker. Everybody is concerned about the labour dispute that is ongoing at the present time. I am sure all members wish people on both sides of the negotiating table would find a resolution to the problems that they have there now, a resolution to the issues that are outstanding, and that we get a deal, that we get a signed agreement, that people will get back to work and back into the services that the people in the Province require are delivered efficiently. There are always concerns during a labour dispute. Many concerns were raised here today in the House. Government is doing the best it can to deal with the situation at the present time, but I am sure everybody in the Province is looking forward to a solution to the ongoing labour dispute and, certainly, to get things back to normal in whatever way, shape or form we can do that, Mr. Speaker.

I have talked to many people, Mr. Speaker, throughout the district and they are very, very concerned about the labour dispute and at the same time very, very concerned about the fiscal mess that the government finds itself in. They are trying to find, I guess, a middle ground to deal with the people who are on strike, and to deal with the fiscal situation that we find ourselves in is a job that we, as a government, have been elected to do and hopefully will do. We certainly look forward to doing that.

I was very pleased, Mr. Speaker, when I picked up today's Evening Telegram, today's Telegram. I am sorry, Mr. Speaker, I am back in time now calling it the Evening Telegram. I was very pleased today to see the former Mayor of Placentia, the former MHA and minister, as a matter of fact, in one of the former Liberal governments, Mr. Bill Hogan, who complimented our government on the initiative with the RNC.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: Mr. Speaker, knowing Mr. Hogan for the past number of years, and having him write a positive letter to the paper promoting and, I guess, thanking and congratulating the government on a job well done was something that I did not expect to see but was very pleased to see. It just goes to show that we have reached across, that we have touched different people in different ways with this Budget. While there are some major concerns out there that have been raised with me over the past couple of weeks, that have been brought forward, certainly we hope to be able to address those concerns.

The bottom line, Mr. Speaker, is that we find ourselves in a fiscal situation. The problem is, as I said earlier in my opening remarks, we are facing almost a $1 billion deficit this year and a projected debt of $11.6 billion. We just cannot go on, I say to the members in the House. We just cannot go on and continue spending, spending and spending. We have to draw the line somewhere. We have to try and provide the services that people out in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador want, but we also have to be able to put our fiscal house in order because the people have elected us to do that. They have elected us to present to the people of the Province good government. We hope to be able to do that in a collective way; not diminish the expectations that people have out there, but at the same time to be able to deliver the level of service that people require.

Mr. Speaker, it is a very difficult situation that we find ourselves in, in relation to trying to be everything for everybody. We learned that we cannot do that. Certainly, in situations where I represent very small communities in my district - as an example, the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MR. MANNING: By leave, Mr. Speaker, just a few minutes to clue up?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave to conclude.

MR. MANNING: Certainly, initiatives put forward by the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs in relation to not taking a percentage of all the Municipal Operating Grants out in the Province, but instead centering on fourteen of the larger communities in the Province, I think it was a positive initiative because most small communities now have a very low tax base. I know communities in my own district that are striving to have water and sewer work done, that are striving to have road work done, that are striving to have different amenities put in their communities, Mr. Speaker, and they just do not have the opportunity or the tax base to be able to raise their end of the equation. Hopefully, at the end of the day, Mr. Speaker, this type of initiative will leave more dollars in the communities that require it most and will also give them the incentive and I guess the presence to be able to raise some of the funds required in order to partake in other government funds, whether provincial or federal funds.

In closing, I would just like to say, Mr. Speaker, that the Budget was brought forward in a very difficult fiscal time in our Province. I am sure most members on both sides of the House would agree that facing a $1 billion deficit, $969 million this year, is not something that we can just lay aside and forget about and continue on. It is something that needs to be addressed. It needs to be brought under control, and hopefully over the next three or four years the plans that the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury have put forward on behalf of the government will take the opportunity to address some of those concerns and some of those issues, and hopefully be able to get our fiscal house in order so we can improve on the services to the people of the Province, improve on the services to the public sector workers and the benefits that we would like to have in their place and to be able to put in their pockets. Hopefully, over the next three or four years, with an agreement with the public service over the next few days, we can get our fiscal house in order and be able to present to Newfoundland and Labrador a more positive future and something that we can all be proud of, that we were part of. I think it is imperative of us all to be able to work in the same direction on that.

I realize the role of the Opposition. I sat on that side since 1993 and I realize the Opposition has to raise concerns to keep the government accountable. We have done that and we have been there but it is an opportunity now, on this side of the House, to be the government, to present the plan to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, a plan that the people of Newfoundland and Labrador voted for on October 21, and hopefully we will get to deliver over the time of this mandate, and be able to deliver the services to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador that they want, Mr. Speaker, that they require and that they deserve, and especially to the people of Placentia & St. Mary's.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

First of all, before I get into my few remarks today, I guess this is my first opportunity in debate, outside of Question Period or Members' Statements or Ministerial Statements, but I just want to say to each hon. member on both sides of the House, I would like to congratulate them on their return. To those who were elected for the first time, I would like to welcome them to the House of Assembly, and also to Mr. Speaker and the other officials on the positions that you hold.

I also want to take this opportunity to thank the wonderful people of Port de Grave District who put their faith in me again, Mr. Speaker, and returned me to the hon. House of Assembly, but I would also like to congratulate them on a more clearer vision that they had because they did take a second look. They took a closer look and they saw right through the new approach, and I would like to commend them for that.

We are hearing debate on the Budget and it seems like everyone is shocked and disappointed because they know the figures that they had to deal with when they took over the government; but, Mr. Speaker, if we read through Hansard you will find numerous occasions when the Minister of Finance, who was referring to the figures of a $666 million deficit, he did not think that was correct. He said the deficit was closer to $750 million. The Premier, when he went before the people of this Province, stated very clearly that he took the last two years to grow the team that was around him and to formulate policies that would be brought forward, but he also knew the fiscal restraints that we are facing in this Province. Now, today, we all too often hear that they seem to be in some sort of shock because of the figures that they had to take over and they are unable to do the things that they probably had in their Blue Book or the blueprint.

Mr. Speaker, the people of this Province - there is not doubt about it - in October gave a mandate to this Administration. We have to live with that. We know there are difficult times in the Province fiscally, but we also know that if we travel down the wrong path there are social problems that have to be looked after as well.

Mr. Speaker, when we refer to the Budget, some hon. members stood on both sides today and referred to some of the good things that were in this particular Budget. No doubt about it, in any particular budget there are items that are good for the people of this Province.

I have to say, for instance, the$500,000 that was put in for the Kids Eat Smart Foundation, that is a wonderful project, a continuation over the last four or five years that was set up by the former Administration.

Mr. Speaker, the officers for the RNC, the training and the hiring of forty-five new officers; if I am not mistaken, that was already in the plans prior to the election and I am glad to see that they are carrying out those as well.

With regard to the $2 million Supreme Courthouse for Happy Valley-Goose Bay, that is wonderful news in the Budget, Mr. Speaker. Then again, it is another commitment that was previously made and we are honoured to see them carry out that proposal.

Mr. Speaker, when we look at the Budget, there are many issues that cause us concern. I know, like the previous speaker said, that they are going through a difficult time. When you look through the Budget we hear talk of closures, cancellations and deferrals. I can understand the deferrals, because that is a commitment that hopefully, down the road, will be taken care of; but, when we look at the closures, Mr. Speaker, the one that come to my mind is the Salmonier Correctional Institution. I have to say that to close that facility totally out, I think, leaves a lot to be desired and I am wondering in what direction this government is headed.

We talk about the ten bed unit that is closing in the Whitbourne Youth Centre. I think there are already ten bed closures after taking place in that facility. Here we are now being informed that there is going to be another closure.

Next we come to the twenty office closures through the Department of Human Resources, Labour and Employment around this Province. I have asked several questions, Mr. Speaker; which offices will close? Because it is immaterial which ones will close, but I believe that is going to be detrimental to the service that is provided to the people all over this Island. We know there are eight or nine offices in one of the regions about to close down. Mr. Speaker, you cannot close out those offices - even though there is wonderful technology before us today - without affecting the lives of the individuals who depend upon the services that are provided for them.

Like I said, Mr. Speaker, there are so many cancellations and deferrals, but one of the main issues that I see, with which I have great concern in the Budget, is: What is this Budget doing for the people who are living below the poverty line? There are some answers there with regard to the tax break that is given to I think it is families that make less than $20,000 per year; that is a couple. I know that will probably kick in, in the year 2006, with up to a maximum amount that they would get back of $460 a year.

Mr. Speaker, when you look at the other side of the coin, and what came down in this Budget, we know there are 153-plus services that will take effect on April 1, that will be increased, and each one of those increases will affect the people who we are trying to help get above the poverty line.

When you look at the impact that is going to have on those families, I believe this government has implemented policies that would trap people who are already disadvantaged into a continual poverty cycle. It is very disappointing to hear that.

Mr. Speaker, I know the hon. member previous to me mentioned the extra money for the drug program in this Province, and that is all wonderful news, but there are many people out there who have problems with other very expensive medications.

I had an opportunity to meet people in my district this past weekend, who are suffering through MS, and also many Alzheimer's patients in the area. Mr. Speaker, those people, even though they have so much money coming through their health care programs, through the insurance programs, there is a cap on how much they can receive.

I spoke to one family who told me that the estimated cost they have to pay each year is in the vicinity of $25,000 to $30,000. That is a lot of money, Mr. Speaker. I know the Alzheimer's medication was to be considered, and I hope this government will take another look and see that those people are treated fairly. I appreciate the funds that are in there for the cancer patients, but I hope they will take another look at that particular avenue.

Mr. Speaker, people speak about what effect this will have on their particular districts. I guess my district is no less than any of the others, and I have had comments. For instance - I know we are in a financial strain at this time, but I know the Town of Bay Roberts, for instance, will lose $40,000 next year from the MOG program.

I understand that the summer and winter maintenance will be taken off all the cabin roads; that will be totally finished after this year. I guess the one that is striking the hardest, that I hear, is with regard to the teaching allocations. I remember my hon. colleague from Harbour Main-Whitbourne last year when he used to stand in his place and say that one teacher cut is one too many. I have to agree with him; one teacher cut is one to many. He used to go and continue on with his comments and say that he felt that the Liberal government has done nothing for education in this Province over the last fourteen years. I do not think he meant that for one minute, but it is on record that he said it.

Mr. Speaker, we know that over the next two years, 470 some-odd teachers will be taken out of the system, and we are being told that by taking out 476 teachers it will not affect the education of the children of this Province. What really gets my gall, I suppose, going is when I see my hon. colleague applauding and pounding the desk when such announcements were made during the Budget, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the other thing that is really interesting to look at is our Economy 2004. We look at the Highlights for 2003 where it is mentioned that the capital investment increased to almost $3.8 billion due, in large part, to the White Rose and the Voisey's Bay projects. Then when we look at the expectations for 2004 it says, "Capital investment is expected to increase by 10.5 % to almost $4.2 billion...", and that is based on those same two projects, White Rose and Voisey's Bay.

I am amazed to even see that printed in the Economy for 2004, because when we debated that particular project in this House, many members, Mr. Speaker, stood in their place and said that they could not see such a project continue under their watch. I think everyone in the Opposition at that time voted against it, apart from the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's. He stood in his place and supported it.

Mr. Speaker, I believe at that time it was a good project.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. BUTLER: I say to the hon. Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne, if I made statements on the teacher allocations like he has done and is able to stand in his place and applaud, I would be ashamed to sit in the hon. House of Assembly; to know that there are 476 teachers coming out of the system.

Then, Mr. Speaker, we look at in the Budget the increases that are being affected by the rate hikes for the people around this Province, the individual out in the smaller communities, Mr. Speaker, small game licences gone from $15 to $20, big game licences gone from $40 to $52, and the list goes on, Mr. Speaker. I think it is disgraceful to know what is happening.

One of the good things I have read recently is a comment from the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development. In one of the articles recently she went on to say, and I want to quote, Mr. Speaker, because this is worth repeating, "...she says there are good things going on in the department, such as the national and international trade missions which have taken place in the past four years. We've spent approximately $1-million on these trade missions and our cost benefit analysis shows us that we've had a return of about $141-million."

Mr. Speaker, that is the type of foundation that those people took over. I agree with them building the economy. Much has to be done, because many people in this Province are hurting. They talk about the concerns that they have with the economy, and I have heard them stand in their places over the last two or three years and talk about out-migration. I noticed in the financial reports for this year, that they are estimating that there may be slight numbers leaving the Province. All too often the former Administration was being accused of massive numbers of out-migration.

I hate to go back to the past because we have to move ahead, we have to take a journey forward, but from 1989 to 2002, there were approximately 60,000 people who out-migrated from this Province and that was mainly due to the major crisis in the fishery, which each and every member in this House were affected by in their own local communities; but, when we go back from 1972 up to 1989 there were 46,500 who out-migrated and there was nothing happening at that time, Mr. Speaker. So, regardless of what government is in power, regardless of what is done, there will be some out-migration, but we hope the trend has slowed to the point where last year we stated that it was almost to a dead end.

Mr. Speaker, I have to say that when I look back and think about some of the comments that were made here last year, and I remember the Premier standing in his place, how he visited a school with the Member for St. Mary's-the Capes, and how they went into one of the schools up there and a couple of the young people, or the majority of them, said they would have to leave this Province to seek employment. Mr. Speaker, that is a sad commentary and we hope that trend has discontinued.

Mr. Speaker, as we go along, when we look at this Budget, I hope that the trends will change around. There are many good things in the Budget, yes, but I am going to tell you there are a lot of closures and cancellations, I think, that should be going ahead.

I have great concerns with the amalgamation of the school boards and the school district offices and the health boards, because I believe that the end result will not be what it should be for the people in rural Newfoundland. I have major concerns with that, Mr. Speaker.

I also want to say that, on the basis of what we are hearing today, I have major concerns with what is happening with the people within the civil service. When we see in the Budget that over the next four years upwards of 6,000 people - and probably only 2,000 of them being positions that are being refilled. It is an out-migration of 4,000 people, I believe, Mr. Speaker.

I just want to conclude on that note, and to say that yes, there are good things, but I have major concerns with the Budget. Some of the issues that I brought forward, I hope that they will review them in the future.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

It certainly gives me great honour to rise in this House today and talk about a necessary Budget that came down not so long ago, and one, which when implemented, will bring this Province further along.

I say to the Member for Port de Grave who just stood on his feet and looked across and said that I should be ashamed to stand in this House. Well, I tell you, hon. member, it is not the shame on this side, it is the shame on that side for leaving this Province in the mess that it is in today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: That is the shame! I am proud to stand on this side of the House. Proud, proud and proud, I say, to stand behind my leader and to lead this Province down a road that you, as a government, put off the tracks.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: That is the shame, I say to the member over there. That is the shame. The shame is on that side of the House for leaving us in the mess and forcing us to make decisions that are not the popular decisions but are decisions which are necessary to bring this Province forward in a way that will ensure a future for the children of this Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

There are sorts of talks: Well, should we be doing it? The mess that has been described is not the mess it is; that we are over here and we are giving, I guess, phoney details as to the extent of the mess that was left by the former government.

I just refer back to the Budget and some of the figures maybe that we will look at and talk about, certainly, deficits. Because when we talk about deficits, that is an important component as plans are looked at, I guess, to move the Province forward, to address the Budget. When we look at the fiscal performance of 2003-2004 - and the hon. member was just up talking about some of the indicators that are indicating growth, but you have to look at the full picture. The accrual deficit of $958.7 million is the deficit that was projected for the fiscal year of 2003-2004. That is the true accrual deficit that our colleagues were talking about with regard to the deficit, but it was not the $665.9 million that the hon. member just referred to; some difference of something like $300 million. The cash deficit of $286.6 million which was projected in that particular year was, indeed, a cash deficit of $406.6 million. Taking that into account, we have to look at 2004-2005 and, again, the projected deficits.

When we look at the pain, or the decisions that were made - and they were painful decisions with regard to addressing that deficit on the accrual and the cash deficits. But for 2004-2005, even with what we have done, the outlook is still $839.6 million and a cash deficit of $361.6 million. To say that our fiscal position has been over exaggerated, that is not true. Certainly, it is doing a discredit to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador who, I might add, know the difference. They know the difference, as they did on October 21 when they put us in charge to take care of it. That is what it is all about!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: I do not have to listen to what is across the floor here. I listen to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador who spoke very clearly on October 21; very clearly.

If you are looking at numbers, just count the numbers that are over here and compare them to the numbers over there. That will tell you, I say to the hon. member, what the people of Newfoundland and Labrador think about us, but more importantly, what they think about you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: I say again, it is not easy. The fiscal outlook for the next four years is much, much worse than was expected; what we were led to believe was the true fiscal situation. The cash deficit cannot be eliminated by revenue growth alone.

Those were the decisions that were facing a new government. Decisions that had to be made concerning the Budget for the upcoming year were not easy decisions. A great deal of deliberation went into it. I take my hat off to the Cabinet who had to grapple with trying to bring this mess under control, this financial mess. They took their responsibility to heart and, I guess, presented to the people of the Province a Budget. In some areas it is not a popular Budget, but it is a Budget that is going to look to the future, not to the present right now. It is, I guess, a Budget of hope; a hope that if we stay the course there will be hope for this Province of Newfoundland and Labrador as we move forward.

To say that there is very little in this Budget certainly does not do credit to the amount of planning, the amount of deliberation that went into presenting this Budget to this House and, indeed, the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. If anything, this Budget certainly is a reality check for all of us as we look forward to the future.

I am very proud to once again return as the Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne. It is the second term for me and I take great pride in representing the people of my district. When I look at the people in my district I realize the many needs that these individuals have, that the municipalities in my district have and that organizations have. There are certainly great, great demands. In preparing a budget you have to look at those demands and you have to, certainly, make some very hard decisions, but you have to establish the priorities that are necessary to ensure that the people, not only in my district but in the Province, are getting a level of service that can give them the basics of life. This Budget does, and not only does it give the essentials but it goes beyond in certain areas which were certainly required and looked upon.

In health alone: We all know that is probably the single most important thing that is on people's minds, their health. I am told that without health you have nothing. You have to have your health. You can, I guess, replace the money, you can move to another place, but your health is most important. Certainly, this government looked at that and made sure that we were addressing priorities in health to ensure that the health of our people was being looked after.

We know that the Reed-Power Enquiry, for example, pointed out gaps with regard to the mental health services. It was something that was drawn to our attention tragically but certainly a service that had to be looked at. One million dollars, which is a substantial sum, is put aside to address the gaps in the community mental health services to ensure that we don't have these tragedies again; an $8.6 million increase in a drug program to which already $106 million is allocated; and $800,000, I might add, to a new cancer drug to help fight cancer. Again, we know all too well how important these sorts of initiatives are.

When we look at the personal care homes - and I have any number of them in my particular district - they provide a fabulous service for our seniors and others in our society. To be able to, again, see that as a priority and to allocate close to half a million dollars to complete a personal care home strategy - this is the fifth year of that particular strategy.

The importance of having direction and to again establish, within the Department of Health and Community Services, a new chief nurse position, again stressing the importance of an individual who would take it upon themselves to address the challenges throughout this Province with the delivery of health care.

With regard to our seniors in health care; we know what the demographics of this Province, where they are going with regard to seniors and, as we know now, there are certainly great shifts in our population. Before too long, there are obviously going to be more seniors than any other age group in our particular society. The Minister of Health and Community Services has earmarked $200,000 to set up a Ministerial Advisory Council for Aging and Seniors. Again, filling a gap. Trying as best we can, given the fiscal responsibility that has been placed upon us, to target those areas where we can do the most good.

With regard to education; again, my hon. colleague mentioned about education. I can tell this hon. house that there is nothing that is as near and dear to my heart as my profession of teaching and how important it is. Even in these fiscally responsible times, over $22 million is going to be spent on major capital construction. Eight point two million is going to be spent for major maintenance projects to make sure the schools which our children attend are schools that can ensure their safety; that have learning environments which are conducive to good learning.

With regard to early learning - and I just referenced the seniors' council within the Health and Community Services. On the other end, we - the Minister of Education will be the lead minister in a "Ministerial Council on Early Childhood Learning to foster comprehensive programs across all government departments and agencies that focus on the learning needs of children and their families." When it comes to learning all of us know that the early days of life, the early years of life are the ones where children are most susceptible to learning. They can learn at amazing rates. Someone told me once that you learn more in the first ten years of your life than you do in perhaps the remaining ninety, because you jump ahead in so many leaps and bounds. This Ministerial Council is going to certainly address that gap between birth and our entry into the formal education system.

Tuition at MUN and the College of the North Atlantic are frozen for another year. Again, a help to our post-secondary students.

So, when we look at the Budget we know we cannot be everything to all people and we have to make hard decisions, and this government has made some hard decisions. Again, it is perhaps not popular in some quarters, but you have to realize that there have been serious restrictions placed upon this government; restrictions that, over time, we hope to be able to eliminate. But we need the time and we need the support, not only of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, but we need the support of all politicians to join together to make sure that we can move this Province forward and move it forward in a way that is best for our children and those who come after them.

To continue on. Again, targeting the individuals who are most in need. The low income tax credit; again, an incentive to individuals who make up to $12,000 or for families up to $19,000. Again, targeting individuals with some degree of support to try and ensure they are getting the basics.

Indexing of Seniors' Benefits and our Child Benefit to the Consumer Price Index at a cost of $400,000. Again, we do not hear it too often because obviously, it is a positive thing. We do not always hear the good things but again, you are targeting seniors, you are targeting children. Those who are most in need.

With regard to the enhancement of the Mother Baby Nutritional Supplement to $90 at birth. Again, targeting those who are most in need for it.

There is $250,000 for the Healthy Children-Healthy Schools program; $500,000 to the Kids Eat Smart Foundation. Again, I do not have to remind members on both sides how important it is. You cannot learn on an empty stomach. This $500,000 that is placed in the right spot can get us, I guess, dividends for many, many years to come.

"Government will provide an extra $1.6 million to further enhance the Child Care Services Subsidy Program." Again, allowing parents to perhaps return to the workplace; perhaps to return to schooling. To give the children an opportunity to avail of some sort of a structured program.

When it comes to the "supported-employment program to assist people with disabilities..." This program throughout the Province - and I know in my particular area - has been so, so successful. I, for one, lobbied to ensure that this particular program was instituted and continued. I am glad to see my government adding an extra $400,000 to this program, because I can tell you, it comes back a thousandfold with regard to these sorts of programs.

Gambling addiction; $100,000. Again, it is targeting a particular part of our society most in need.

As well, we can talk about, "Increased funding for the Women's Advisory Council and for eight Women's Centres throughout the province."

Policing has already been mentioned. New RNC officers and equipment. Not only the officers but the equipment, because we have all heard the stories about the type of vehicles that some of them were driving.

Again, I said that this Budget was a Budget of the future. I just go back to Our Place in Canada, and this was a commission that was commissioned by the former government. If they wonder, I say to the hon. member, where the new approach came from, a lot of it, you could say - and I do not mind saying - can be traced to this particular document because it reflects what the people of Newfoundland and Labrador said to the commission as they went around. The one thing, when I say that this is a budget for the future, I will just refer back to one of the recommendations for the Pathway to Renewal. It says this, "An important step toward renewal would be the adoption of a new mindset which embraces the concept of relentlessly ‘present-minded' in analyzing challenges, and relentlessly ‘future-minded' in tackling them."

I say to the hon. members across, that is this government's new approach. This Budget reflects our ability in the present to analyze the situation even though analyzing is not what a lot of people want to hear. It is bitter medicine to put on the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. This is what this Budget reflects: That the ability - we were methodical as we went through it and, as you saw as this government took over, methodical in analyzing what the present situation is, but not to be stuck just in the present, because what this Budget looks at is not what is going to happen tomorrow - indeed, maybe not what is going to happen next month or next year - but it is looking far down the road and is future-minded in tackling the problems, the obstacles, that we discovered when we took office, and to look at where we had to be - not in two days' time, not in two months' time, but in three years' time, in five years' time and in eight years' time.

I am confident, on this side of the House, with the leadership that we have, with our government, that we are going to be able to relentlessly tackle the obstacles that we have discovered. We are going to be able to get beyond them, and this Province is going to be a better Province for it. I am encouraged as I guess I reflect upon my particular district and the needs that are there. Again, in the short-term we may not see great strides but we cannot lose heart. We ask the people of Newfoundland and Labrador not to lose heart, to go shoulder to shoulder with us as we move forward.

Again, I look forward to the opportunity to be part of this investing in our future. Our Premier has taken on the new Department of Business because, again, he sees it as we see it, as a way to tackle those obstacles and be forward-looking in our approach. The $1 million that was set aside for that is an investment that will bring, again, great returns, that we are going to - again, going back to Our Place in Canada - establish an office in the nation's capital to lobby the federal government, to hold the federal government accountable for where we should be going in the future, because the commission squarely pointed to that relationship as one of the keys to moving forward.

With regard to our fishery, we have been asked, and our minister has been up a couple of times: What are you doing? He took what this government commissioned, which was the Dunne report, and he took it but he did not put it on the shelf to be dusted every now and then.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the member that his time has expired.

MR. HEDDERSON: Could I just have minute to clue up?

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, and my colleagues on the other side.

I will just leave it at that in saying that, again, I am certainly very, very proud to be part of this government. I am very, very proud to be able to put forth a plan, a plan that is reflected in our Budget. They were not easy choices but choices that we feel very strongly are going to bring us far into the future and ensure a future for our children so that this Province of Newfoundland can take a rightful place in this great nation of Canada.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to take the opportunity this afternoon to speak for a few minutes on the Budget Debate. My colleague across the way talked about shame and so on. I guess, when we look at the deficit that is in this Province, there is enough to go around for everybody but I am not going to go there.

I will just talk about the cash deficit for this year predicted for $286 million. Well, you just said your figures were $406 million. You take out the $207 million that you put in for the student loans and you are left with $199 million, about $97 million less than what it was projected for. Anyway we are not going to solve that here today. It is a matter of opinion.

One of the things that we will recognize in this House - I have been here for fifteen years, and it is only like yesterday that I came - is that the electorate out there in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador are fully aware of what happens here. They are more educated today than they ever were before. You cannot come into this House of Assembly and try to say to the people, this is what it is, rather than what it really is. They have made that decision already.

I want to say to some of the member opposite, do not think for one moment that the Budget that you fellas have presented, or the government has presented, out there has not gone like a rock to the bottom, because it has. There are a number of people out there who are so distraught by what happened, but it has not been in the media every day because of the strike situation that we have in the public service, but people are talking about it and will talk about it for times to come.

When you think about it, for example, $25 million in new service fees, they are taxes. Any other way that you talk about it, they are taxes. Right now, if somebody in some family wanted a death certificate, they can come in here and get it at no cost. As of April 1, it will cost a family $25 for a death certificate. Just think about it. These are services. These are taxes that are put on the most vulnerable people in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

I am not going to quote them all; there are about 150 of them. One of the other ones that I hear a lot about when I am in my district is the ambulance fees. Up until now it was $100 for the ambulance and the fee attendant. It has gone from $100 to $165, and do you know what? There was no consultation with anybody. Up until a little while ago the people were saying: What is going to happen to the extra $50 or $60 that the people are collecting? Who is going to get it? Where is it going to go? Do you know what we found out? That the government is going to take these extra dollars that the ambulance could get, out of their operating grants. That is where it is going to come from. I am telling you what it is going to mean for the people in the rural part of the Province like I represent, where we have ambulances in three or four parts of the district. It is a long ways from Grand Falls; it is two-and-a-half to three hours. Do you know what is going to happen? People are not going to take the ambulance. They cannot afford to do it. I would venture to say that within the next number of months, in order to get an ambulance, you will have to use a visa or pay up front, that is the only way you are going to get on the ambulance. You are going to have to take two-and-a-half hours by car, without a personal attendant, without a nurse or a nursing assistant or an LPN there, and you are going to travel for two-and-a-half or three hours and somebody is going to meet a catastrophe on the road. I am telling you, it is going to happen. Down our way in the wintertime, when the roads are really, really bad, and you are 150 to 200 kilometres when nothing happens, it is a recipe for disaster. That is what you did for the ordinary people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

I heard the Member for Harbour Main talk about the extra dollars that were put into the Budget for people of low income, people who make, I think, less than $12,000 a year up to $22,000. You know when the people of Newfoundland and Labrador are going to see that? In 2006. When they get back their income tax for 2005, they will get their cheque, in 2006, Mr. Speaker. Just imagine. In the meantime, what you have done to the people who are most vulnerable, you have jacked their car licence to $140 to $180, you have taken their personal licence for their car from $80 to $100. Just that alone, over the next number of years -

AN HON. MEMBER: Moose licences.

MR. LANGDON: Moose licences, and the fees, and for a person who wants to go to visit his family who is in the park - never ever before - now have to pay $5 to come in and visit them and get a shower. I mean, give me a break! This is what this Budget is about.

The Minister of Government Services got up the other day, when she was talking about the services, and she said: I feel proud to be part of a government that we can bring in those service fees. Go back to the district that you represent in rural Newfoundland and say to the people that you are pleased that you were able to bring in the service fees and you won't get very many people who will agree with you. I am being honest about that and you know it and people who are serving the rural parts of the Province know it just as well as I do.

There are so many things that you could talk about that are not there. All of the things that were in the Budget, the service fees, put forward to tack and put the burden on the ordinary individual in Newfoundland and Labrador. People who have high incomes and the corporate people; scott free. It didn't give an iota of a tax to them. It was all put on the ordinary individuals. Pretending that you are proud of it, and you can pound your desks in the sense that you are proud of that, I don't believe that for a moment. Not for one moment do I believe that.

One of the things that is dear to my heart, for example - I represent a rural part of the Province, as rural as anybody when it comes to the ferry services. In the Blue Book that was out there, that was the blueprint for the future, the real leadership, it says on page 24 that the new government would phase in adjustments over a five-year period to bring rates on ferry routes in line with the cost of highway travel. Lo and behold, what happened, on the day of the Budget? Instead of bringing it down into the five-year plan so that it would be the same cost as highway travel; an increase of 25 per cent. That is what they did. It is another broken promised. I am telling you, it rings out there with the people who are in the rural parts of the Province. It doesn't resonate, probably, with us in here. We have become insular, nothing touches us. It is almost like Teflon. When I say something or the Government House Leader says something it just flows off us. You go out into the rural part of the Province, outside the overpass here, and I tell you it means something to them. It really does.

I heard someone say the other day when I was down in my own district - and we had a good announcement down there. The (inaudible) people from New Brunswick are coming in for aquaculture. There are probably anywhere from fifty to a hundred new jobs to be created over the next little while. Do you know what? Yes, they were glad and there were probably 100 or 200 people in the hall looking for it, but do you know what was on their minds? What is wrong with the Premier. It is out there. I am telling you that people in this particular case right now, the deed has been done. I am telling you, that people will not forget. They didn't forget Clyde Wells and they didn't forget Brian Tobin. Tobin was instrumental to some extent in putting us where we are here. The thing about it is, he is a bosom pal of your Premier. A lot of things happened between the two of them. I will not go into that today but it is out there. I am telling you, a lot of it is out there.

Mr. Speaker, you talk about approach to governance.

AN HON. MEMBER: Cannot hear the speech, Mr. Speaker.

MR. LANGDON: It is all right. It does not matter. The people out there in the Province will hear it because we are tuned into them.

Talk about approach to government. We saw the approach to governance, Mr. Speaker, on January 5 when the Premier announced a wage freeze for the public service, and there are people on that side of the House who did not know it any quicker than I did as an Opposition member. You did not know it. You heard it on your radios and you heard it in the living room. There was no consultation, none whatsoever, and you talk about being in - as a member in here, where you are a part of a government. I can understand why some of you would have been excited. You were in Opposition for a long time and you wanted to be a part of government where you could make a difference and go back to your people; but, I am telling you, in six months that goodwill that you had built up at the beginning of the election is not there now. People are despondent. People did not vote for what they are getting in this Budget, and they did not vote for what they are getting in this government either. You can talk to people from one end of the Province to the other and they will tell you, because it is a government of broken promises. People, as I said, recognize that for what it is worth.

Mr. Speaker, I could think of a way where my good friend, the Minister of Municipal Affairs, a good guy, a guy who understands the rural part of the government and councils and so on and talks about the Municipal Operating Grants, do you know one way we could have done it? We could have, for example, saved $6 million in St. John's and $1 million in Mount Pearl by having the two cities and probably the Town of Paradise become one entity; but, do you know what? The Member for Mount Pearl says he had the word of the Premier saying that it would never happen.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. LANGDON: Probably, absolutely, but you know the Premier's word that he has given to a number of people, that might change.

AN HON. MEMBER: So were the ferry rates too.

MR. LANGDON: The ferry rates were the same thing; they were not going to change. Do you know what? You could take the $6 million from St. John's, the $1 million from Mount Pearl, and do you know what you could do with that extra money? You could give it to every rural community outside of the overpass and you could double the MOGs what they are there now. That is what you could do with it. You could do consultation, but the Premier has already said to the Member for Mount Pearl, it is not going to happen, so it is not going to happen.

These are the types of things that we could do and that would give the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs some more things to work with and he would not have to cut Grand Falls-Windsor and he would not have to cut Happy Valley-Goose Bay and other municipalities across the Province. There could be a way to do all of that.

I remember, for example, when I was Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs - and all of us understand. You take the City of Mount Pearl, for example. A lot of the development in the City of Mount Pearl was done by Newfoundland and Labrador Housing; a lot of it. The taxpayers of Newfoundland and Labrador also did Donovan's Industrial Park. It did not cost the City of Mount Pearl any dollars.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind hon. members that there was a ruling made here in this House just last week about wearing campaign buttons in the Legislature, so I would ask the members who are wearing those buttons if they would be kind enough to remove them.

The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

MR. LANGDON: Mr. Speaker, thank you very much.

There was $10 million that was spent by Newfoundland and Labrador Housing to build the city - like the new Wal-Mart, the new Canadian Tire store and all the development. It was all done by Newfoundland and Labrador Housing. Then, when it was all done, the key was given to the city to collect taxes.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. LANGDON: No, that was over ten years. Ten years. That was done over the last ten years, and it was done even before that. It was done when Neil Windsor was there - and all of these things. So, when you look at it, there are lots of things that the member could have done. These are the type of things that we could have gone on in the Budget, Mr. Speaker.

Also, when we talk about the Budget, we talk about the firefighting for Newfoundland and Labrador. In fact, when I was the minister, the Fire Chief of the Newfoundland and Labrador Fire Chiefs Association, during the election, took out ads that were pretty much saying: Take a second look again at what this government has promised to you because we cannot get people in the Commissioner's Office to do the job of the Fire Commissioner.

What I thought, as a minister, was, it would be better to give services to the rural communities out there than to have one or two extra people sitting in the Fire Commissioner's Office. Lo and behold, I was down in the district last weekend, I believe it was, and I heard a news release from the President of the Newfoundland and Labrador Firefighters Association completely giving it to government. He said: We had the assurance, when we met with them earlier, that we would get some people into the Fire Commissioner's Office and it has not happened.

I am not surprised, because I believe that the minister, just the same as what I would, realized that the services could be best given to the people in the rural parts of the Province, into building an hierarchy in the Fire Commissioner's Office. I am not saying that they cannot do with another one or two, but you could probably redesign some of the duties of the Fire Commissioner and give it to other people within the department or within that particular office.

These are some of the things, Mr. Speaker, that could have happened and did not happen. I must also talk about - because it is a time when you talk about things for your own district - I was really personally disappointed when we did not get the go-ahead for the clinic in St. Alban's. I talked to the minister about it a couple of times across the floor. It seems as if there might be some differences of opinion about it with the minister and with the officials. Definitely, the officials knew that the particular structure was there because the tenders had been called but they were not awarded. You cannot dispute that. Anybody in the Department of Health and Community Services knew that the tender was called, knew that it was not awarded, and then somehow to create the impression that nobody in the department knew anything about it. They did. They had to know something about it or else they would have let the tender go on as it was called.

Mr. Speaker, when I think about the people in the rural parts of the Province and I think of the people in my own area, as I said, into St. Alban's; if you go into the clinic and you see the facilities that the people have to work with there, and the people who live in the area have to go to, it is just not standard. It defies logic, I guess, for the people, the doctors and the nurses who have to work in these institutions and in those clinics day after day. The services that they provide, there is no - and I say no - privacy whatsoever, no matter what is wrong with you. That is why it was necessary to - it was not a frill. It was not a promise of Oliver Langdon. Long after Oliver Langdon is not the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune, and if the district remains after the districts are realigned then so be it, but it is for the people who are in the area. You do not do something to the people who live there, who want the services, because they are represented by anybody other than - a government member or an Opposition member. I do not think that was the case. That is why I think you should go back and have a look at it. It might be able to be done by next year. It is really, really needed, I am telling the Minister of Health and Community Services. It was not, as I said, a pet peeve of mine. It was done because it was needed, and it would have been done had not the guy - and I think I might have made a mistake the other day when I said he took a heart attack and died; it was an aneurysm. If that had not happened then the clinic would have been done and people would have been using that particular clinic today because of the improvement that is needed in that area.

I also think, Mr. Speaker, when I think about the Budget, and I think about the youth services, I do not have all the information but I was talking to one of the young people who runs the youth services operation in Harbour Breton. She was telling me last weekend that they were provided grants by the provincial government to run the facility down there, grants that would pay for the rent, grants that would pay for the young people to run the thing, the co-ordinator and so on, and in the Budget, she said, there was $400,000 taken out of the Budget - I have not had a chance to look at it - $400,000 taken out of the Budget for two particular rural communities in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and where did she say the $400, 000 ended up? Here in St. John's.

I would have to look at that and see it, and if that is the case then there is something wrong with that. You do not take the funds out of a small rural area where these young people have very little services to begin with in the first place, and when you provide something for them, a meaningful program where they can operate in the area, not only for the Harbour Breton area but also for the whole Connaigre area. Then the lady said to me: Do you know how much money I have left this year to run the program, after I pay the rent, after I pay the light, and after I pay the people who have been working with me for twelve months? Do you know how much money I have to spend on discretionary spending? One thousand dollars; $1,000 discretionary spending for these young people over twelve months.

There is something wrong with that. There has got to be something wrong with that, and I want to check it out, to see to see if that is the part. These are the type of things that we do not notice, when we talk about the Budget and finally get into it line by line to see what is happening. I cannot be proud of things that happen in - when that happens to young people in my area, when these particular services are not there. I cannot be proud of it, and under no circumstance.

Again, Mr. Speaker, in the education system, we talk about - and again in the area that I represent, I have probably some of the smallest schools in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, in Ramea, and in Grey River and in François and in McCallum and in Rencontre, those areas. They cannot be bussed and they cannot be put on ferries to come from one community to the other because the South Coast, the only way that you can get in is by boat or chopper and there are times in the winter and fall and in the spring when these communities are totally isolated. I know you can do some of the courses with a TV monitor, but it is not the same as a teacher in the classroom. With the 400-plus teachers that are going to come out of the system over the next number of years, it is going to impact quite obviously on the communities in the rural part of the Province. They can probably offer a core program but you cannot offer honours math. You cannot offer physics. You cannot offer chemistry. You cannot offer advanced writing. You cannot offer the literature program, whether it is Thematic Literature or Literary Heritage. You cannot do it. Our students in many of the smaller parts of the Province, when they come to an institution - when they come to St. John's or go to Grand Falls University or whatever, they are behind the eight ball even before they start. If we are going to look at that and be able to take more teachers out of the system then - we have multi-grading. I was one of the people in Seal Cove-Fortune Bay, where I went to school, there was Grade 7, Grade 8, Grade 9, Grade 10 and Grade 11 in one classroom. I have said in the House many times before, I can have a reunion whenever I want for Grade 11 because it is just me.

I know what it is like in that type of a situation, and we are going to go back to that again where you are going to have Grades 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 all in one classroom, with one teacher, and expect that those people in those smaller communities are going to be able to get -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the hon. member that his time has expired.

MR. LANGDON: Just twenty seconds or so to clue up.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. LANGDON: So, Mr. Speaker, here are the type of things that I think any one of us who are in this House, when you look at the number of things that were presented in the Budget, I am telling you there is nothing to be happy about. There is nothing to be excited about, and the people out there in the Province know it, and I am telling you that they have said so and will continue to say so in the next number of days.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I am delighted to stand today and have a few minutes on this debate. It is sort of a tradition in this House, Mr. Speaker, when you do stand on the Budget Debate, that you have a better overall view of the talk on different issues in your district, talk about the House of Assembly, and it gives you a broad range to have a talk in this House.

To be honest with you, Mr. Speaker, I am looking forward to my colleague, especially the new colleagues in the House of the Assembly, getting a chance to stand in this particular debate. Of all debates we do in the House of Assembly, this is probably one of the most interesting ones, especially if you make your maiden speech, Mr. Speaker. I know on the opposite side there are not many maiden speeches to be had but it gives people a chance to talk about - in a short time, because it is really a short time. People talk about the months and months but really it is a half year, six months of a new government being formed.

The first thing I want to do is congratulate all members in this House for going through an election process, the democracy, and finding themselves back in this House, sitting in their chairs or standing in their places representing their districts. That is what we are all here to do, and I respect that, I always have.

I remember the very first day coming in here to do my maiden speech. I remember working with the Member for St. Mary's-The Capes, myself and him sitting upstairs getting ready to come downstairs for our very first debate in this House of Assembly. The thing I can remember, like it was yesterday - the truth is, Mr. Speaker, as members get up, especially the newer members, the pride you feel about standing in this House of Assembly, in this Chamber; to speak in this Chamber on behalf of the people that put you here.

There is nobody in this House who has a monopoly on concern for their district. We all feel the same about our districts, the people you represent and the issues that you face everyday. I say to my hon. colleague who just finished speaking from Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune - I have dealt with that colleague as a Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs; I will say, dealt with him a fair bit on issues in my district and he has been fair. He has worked with me to try and address some of the concerns. We, as an Opposition at that time, would stand, like we would and like the Opposition would do now, and express concerns and criticize. That is why you are called Opposition.

I feel pretty good in saying, anyway, Mr. Speaker, over the years of standing in this House as an Opposition member for eleven years raising concerns day after day, presenting the petitions, talking about your road conditions, talking about the conditions of water and sewer and so on because that is your job. You stand here and represent the people the best you can on the issues about your district because that is what it is all about. I do appreciate - there is one advantage, I guess, you have of some of us returning members here today, in the Opposition and in government, is that once you serve in both you get a real appreciation for what your job is in the House; whether it be Opposition, whether it be government, whether it be a Cabinet Minister or a member of government. All of those brings a responsibility with it.

As I see members opposite, in all fairness, stand on petitions or stand in Question Period and so on, it is the same thing that we had to do as the Opposition. We would not function in this House properly unless we had a constructive and good Opposition. I have heard members opposite say that time after time, the Opposition Leader of the day, former premiers and so on. As a matter of fact, former Premier Tobin was famous on saying that, to make sure we had an Opposition that was credible and that they kept people on their toes. Maybe, Mr. Speaker, to go as far as to say, maybe that is some of the problems we have in our federal government, in our federal system today, an Opposition that is willing to stand toe to toe and go to the government and keep them accountable. That is their role. That is why, after serving on both sides of the House, Mr. Speaker, an appreciation for that and a respect for that. No matter how we might go off on a tangent on certain issues of the day or whatever may be arising at the time, you still have to remember and respect each and every member in this House. I do congratulate every member here today, Mr. Speaker, for being re-elected or for coming to the House for the first time. It is a big responsibility. It is not something you take lightly. When you are criticized as a government, or if you are on the other side of the House I guess, as an Opposition, you still remember that people use a democratic process that sent you here.

Mr. Speaker, on that note, the first thing I would like to do in this particular debate, which we do have the ability and the time to do this, is to thank the District of Baie Verte for re-electing me for the fourth time. Believe me, since coming here in 1993 I have seen a lot of changes. I have seen a lot of changes in this Chamber, Mr. Speaker, from different premiers, different members, and, of course, today sitting here - I look at some of my colleagues who have been here this long with me, and certainly on the other side of the House, people who have been here for a longer period of time. There has been a lot of changes in this Chamber in the last number of years.

I know the Speaker himself has noticed a lot of those changes because we came into this House at the same time, along with the Government House Leader, in 1993. It is a funny thing about a four-year period for elections. I think in twelve years we have had four. Some elections came a little bit earlier, Mr. Speaker, when we did not expect them; when the premiers of the day decided to call elections early. Especially former Premier Tobin, who decided to have an early election. Of course there was no control left in that. All of a sudden we had elections coming in two-and-a-half years, then all of a sudden we had to wait four years for an election.

That is the process, that is what was in place. We all sat back and waited for writs to be dropped, Mr. Speaker. I remember former Premier Tobin, in a cold February, deciding that he was going to go to the polls two years early. I remember that very well. The circumstances have changed and this Chamber has certainly changed in the last twelve years that I have been in this House.

I want to congratulate all members on that and thank my district, Mr. Speaker, and the people of my district, for giving me the opportunity and the challenge to represent them in this particular mandate. I look forward to it, because after sitting for so long in Opposition you do want to get on government side. Absolutely, Mr. Speaker! I look forward to it, and I look forward to turning the challenges into opportunities. Believe me, Mr. Speaker, from what we have heard back and forth in the last couple of weeks in this House there are challenges, big time challenges.

No matter how we spin it - the truth is I hear from most people. They are not worried on the $.2 million or to a decimal point exactly what the numbers are, but they do know - the Minister of Finance, my colleague who I have known a long time, can hit numbers pretty well dead on when he is giving the information, Mr. Speaker, and he knows the information. People are not interested in coming to a decimal point of exactly what that amount is. They are more interested in knowing - and I think a lot of them have accepted, Mr. Speaker, that the financial state of this Province right now is not a good one. We can use all kinds of rhetoric and words, I guess, to describe that but the fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, I will just leave it at that, not to inflame the situation but to say the financial situation that we find ourselves in today, just six months after taking over this new mandate, is not a good one.

We can battle back and forth with the numbers until we are blue in the face and we will get different stories and different spins, and then, all of the sudden, I guess, because we are all politicians, the rhetoric starts and we go back and forth. It is really unfortunate that that happens, Mr. Speaker, but I don't see it ever ending. It was like it ten years ago when I sat here and it is like it today and it is a good bet it will be like it ten years from now. There is nothing going to change with that. A lot of times people will say: I have heard your side and their side, and we are back and forth, but really we just want to deal with it.

Mr. Speaker, that is the point I want to make today in the Budget Debate, that no matter how we spin it or how many numbers we use or how many decimal points we use, the financial state of the Province today it not a good one. With that in mind, Mr. Speaker, as a government - that is why, respecting both sides of the House for what we have to do, there are jobs we have to do as an Opposition of being constructive and being the critics as far as different departments are concerned and so on. That is their job, but people on the opposite side also know that when you are in government you take the Budget and you make decisions, you make choices.

Mr. Speaker, does anybody want to make some of the decisions that had to be made by this government in the last few months? Absolutely not! We would like to say that there is no bad news in the Budget. We would like to be able to say we are going to make everybody happy, and when we finish our Budget and the Minister of Finance sits down, everybody is going to be happy. We would love to say that, Mr. Speaker. Nobody has a monopoly in this House on concern for the issues and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador; nobody, not one single member in this House.

I know it full well, Mr. Speaker, that as we stood here as a new government to announce this new Budget, we knew that people would not be happy. We knew, Mr. Speaker, that there were tough choices ahead. The fact of the matter is, we would like to see improvements right across the board for everybody in every sector, but the reality is that you could not do that. If we are going to deal with a Budget from April to April, Mr. Speaker, it is probably a lot easier to do it.

The fact of the matter is, people in this Province have been telling me over the years, Mr. Speaker, that we have to do something that has vision, that is going to go beyond next April and beyond the end of the fiscal year. It has to look at the next three years. It has to look at the next five years. It has to look at the next ten years, because, as one of my colleagues said to me, Mr. Speaker, we are making some of these decisions that although it is not all a good news story, the fact of the matter is, if we can make some decisions as we stand here for the next four years, with our mandate, that are going to effect our children and their children, then we are doing the right thing.

Is it tough right now? Absolutely. There are decisions made that people in this Province will not be happy with, absolutely, but we know with our leader and with this new mandate we have, that there is a vision there to deal with things that are going to take us into the future. There is not a person in this Province that would quibble over the fact that we have a financial situation to deal with, but when you look at all the choices, every department, you have to make choices. Health care, education, some of the biggest parts of the Budget, Mr. Speaker. We know that the best thing you can do there is have the best education system possible and the best health care possible, and we think, and people throughout the Province believe, that if you make those efficiencies work then it is not going to happen in year one.

That is part of the prong, the two-pronged approach that it takes, Mr. Speaker. It is to deal with the fiscal reality of the day - we have to deal with that - in order to also deal with the second prong. Somebody, I think it was the second day that the House was opened, how ludicrous it can get sometimes, that somebody would stand - I do not even remember the member who said it - but basically, where is the second prong? Where is the prosperity? Where is the economic growth?

Now, Mr. Speaker, anybody in this Province, anybody, in all honesty, could never say that in three or four months we were going to see an economic turnaround in this Province and things are going to prosper. Mr. Speaker, it may not be in the next four or five or six months, but as we roll out a plan and a vision for this Province, Mr. Speaker, it will come into place.

Anybody in business out there today - and one of the members talked earlier about small business. They know when you start a small business, Mr. Speaker, that you do not start it, open your doors, no matter what that business is, and within months there is prosperity. What it is, Mr. Speaker, you invest and you slowly turn it around. You slowly turn it around, as in any business, whether it be big or small. It does not happen overnight.

We have said that since day one, Mr. Speaker, and this leader wherever he went throughout this Province before and during the election talked about it and said it. This problem did not come overnight and it is not going to be fixed overnight. It is really still overnight. It is six months into a new mandate and it is not going to happen that fast. The first thing we have to do is get control. At least use that word. Get control of the financial situation of the Province, lay it out there for people to see, and let them make choices. We, as a government, have to make those choices.

Mr. Speaker, I have stood in my place many times as the Member for Baie Verte and talked about my district, and that is what I want to take a few minutes to talk about today - our own districts, and just relate it the Province as a whole. Roads. Nobody is surprised I am going to talk about roads first, because I think I have talked about the road situation in this Province. I was the critic for that particular portfolio for a number of years and know it very well, I think, Mr. Speaker. All you have to do is drive the Province to know it well, by the way, because many people, no matter where we go in this Province, talk about the road infrastructure. I want to use that particular issue to make a point.

Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is this: In the year 2004 we are in a Province, with the resources that we have, with 800 kilometres of gravel road, at least, maybe still over that amount by now, never paved, and over 1,500 kilometres of what they call old pavement which has to be done, which is 1,500 kilometres. There is over 1,500 kilometres of old pavement which has to be done and we still have 800 kilometres of gravel road. Mr. Speaker, that piles up. That is exactly my point on this particular issue. This has been a problem that has been growing and growing in this Province for a long time, and every member in this House knows, and not just during the election but before that and since then, especially when you see the spring come - and the member from The Straits always reminded me what he calls it. He calls it winter pavement. When the thaw goes out of the road and the winter pavement goes, we are reminded about the conditions and the state of roads in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, that is an example. The point I make is, that is an example of an issue in this Province that was never really addressed for the long term. Every year - in all due respect to the Ministers of Transportation that I have dealt with over the years, and they tried to help out in my district, although last year it was a bit of an insult. As a matter of fact, last year was the worst. Last year, with all the conditions that I have in my district, and many members know it because it I have talked about it so often and presented so many petitions, of all of the road problems that I had, last year I got two kilometres of work done.

MR. REID: Go on?

MR. SHELLEY: Two kilometres, I say to the Member for Twillingate, and he knows. He knows, because he has problems in his district with roadwork. I thought it was an absolute insult, the amount of roadwork done; but up to that year, prior to that year, Mr. Speaker, previous ministers that I had worked with and understood the situation in my area, even though in Opposition, they worked with me and I should say a fair amount, with the budget that was allocated, I got a fair amount. We worked at it. There is still a lot of work to be done, but I got a fair amount at different times, Mr. Speaker.

AN HON. MEMBER: Who was it?

MR. SHELLEY: I am looking at one of the ministers now. He worked fairly. I would say to the members opposite, and there are ministers that I have dealt with that are very fair, and realistic, Mr. Speaker, because the banter can go back and forth in this House, and has done it, back and forth, and it will continue, but there are ministers, and it is the same now, as we as government, that I plan to work with, to be fair with, as they deal with their districts.

They are not Liberal districts or PC districts, Mr. Speaker. They are people in the Province who voted for all parties, but they deserve as fair treatment as anybody else. I am one minister who plans to do that, to work with any member, any district in the Province, to try to improve things. That is why I talk about the road situation, Mr. Speaker.

All I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, is that it will not be two kilometres in my district this year. I can guarantee you that. I will not go any further than that, but I can tell you it will be more than that, because the situation of roads in my district is as bad or worse than anywhere in the Province. The former ministers know, because of the road system I have.

It is nobody's fault. It is just that the road system I had, with so many branch roads and so on. I told the former minister this before - talk about a web of roads - if I leave my house in Baie Verte and drive in and out of each community it is eight hours of driving, to go in and out. I know the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune has a district something similar, and it is tough, but the point being that basic infrastructure of roads in our Province is something that needs to be addressed and we will address it in a long term, not one year from April to April fighting over it, but a plan.

Mr. Speaker, I will admit this, that we are going to need co-operation. We are going to need co-operation if we are ever to catch up with infrastructure because, Mr. Speaker, it is going to lead into the last couple of minutes I want to speak, and that is this particular Department of Tourism, and link the road issue to it.

The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, some of the best tourism potential in this Province, the best tourism potential in this Province, is throughout rural Newfoundland and Labrador. If we had roads, and I have had this story told to me time after time, especially people who are RVing, people who are coming from the United States and Ontario and so on, into our Province, they had their RV in part of my district last year, Harry's Harbour, beautiful community, great trail out there, about to turn down the road, sixteen kilometres, gravel road, stopped it and said: No way, I cannot go. I cannot take our machine over a road like that, in a state like that.

Mr. Speaker, it is a major deterrent to tourism in this Province. If we are ever going to develop tourism throughout Newfoundland and Labrador - our key, I believe, is what is happening in small rural Newfoundland and Labrador. If that is what people are coming to look for, then a basic infrastructure of road is something that we have to work towards and improve faster than it has been improved in the last number of years.

Mr. Speaker, still on tourism; on a positive note - because the truth is, whenever a Budget comes out - and as I said earlier in my remarks - an Opposition's job is to criticize and bring down the negative things. The other part of it is, every now and then - not so often as a government member - you get a chance to stand to and talk about your department and some positives. Mr. Speaker, tourism is one of those positives. Tourism, Culture and Recreation in this Province is a positive. Nobody did mention that there is $1 million additional in marketing in this Province this year. Not too many people have mentioned that. The fact is, Mr. Speaker, that million dollars spent on marketing - this is from the Canadian Tourism Association, on numbers that they put out. The fact is, for every $1 we spend on marketing in Newfoundland and Labrador we get a $10 return. You do not have to be an economist to figure out from there what a return on investment that is. I do not think that any member would argue that. As a matter of fact, the previous administration talked about increasing marketing, and we did. It was a commitment we made, it was a commitment we kept. As you increase marketing - because we all know in this House, to be fair to everybody, that the potential for tourism in Newfoundland and Labrador - and the timing in the trends for tourism in this country, with the recent events in New York and the Iraq war, all of those things, indicators have shown us that the timing and trend for tourism to increase in places like Newfoundland and Labrador was never better.

As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, we have indicators already for this year, that last year some 440,000 people - in other words our population doubled last year. The program was began with some special events and celebrations we had, but now the timing is perfect. As I speak to people throughout the industry, Mr. Speaker, Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador will tell you that the timing and trend is perfect for this Province.

As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, just a short while ago, a couple of weeks ago, we had a travel media conference here in this Province. For anybody who does not know what that is, it usually takes place in Ontario. It has never been outside of Ontario, as a matter of fact. It is all the travel media who talk about tourism and travel throughout Canada and the world. We had them here from Japan, the United States and so on. I had the opportunity to go on live radio, on this travel radio, Mr. Speaker. It was supposed to be for ten minutes from the Fairmont where the convention was taking place and talk about Newfoundland and Labrador and the potential we have for tourism. While on that live radio, which basically went into the Eastern Seaboard of New York and Boston, basically that area, it was a live, back and forth with the announcers in New York -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the minister that his time has expired.

MR. SHELLEY: Could I have a minute to clue up, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. SHELLEY: A minute to clue up, Mr. Speaker.

I will get more time to come back to talk about tourism, Mr. Speaker, because there is a lot to talk about. It is positive. It is an industry that is going to grow. Mr. Speaker, this year I believe we will see the best summer ever for Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would just like to take a few minutes to speak on the Budget. I guess there are more things on what are not in the Budget than what is in the Budget. Mr. Speaker, I always hear the comments from the members opposite: We never said it. It was never said. Most things that I say -

MR. SHELLEY: You agree, right?

MR. JOYCE: I say to Minister of Tourism, I sat down and listened to you for twenty minutes about the things that you said are going on positive. I will just ask for the same courtesy, if you do not mind, please.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, I will just go on with some of the facts that I have from Corner Brook. I say to a lot of the members opposite, I feel sorry for you sometimes because you are in a position where you are following the leader and then you are not sure what he says. For me, I said it before in the Voisey's Bay debate, what he says here in St. John's is not what he says in Corner Brook. I will show some examples on that, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I remember in 1992, Clyde Wells at the time, these words - during this election were so much evident. I remember when they had to make some cutbacks in 1992 and there was an election coming up in 1993. There were a lot of members then in government who were concerned and said: we have an election coming up. Clyde Wells said to me at the time: I would rather win with honesty than lose with dishonesty.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: That is what Clyde Wells told me when he came out in 1993 and made the cuts in 1992. He said: I would rather win with honesty than lose with dishonesty, Mr. Speaker. There were no broken promises or commitments that were made at that time. I am proud, Mr. Speaker, that when Clyde Wells said that during the last election it was no more evident to me than what happened in the last election.

The first sign of what was happening - I mentioned it to the Minister of Education. I asked him in a joking way, but more seriously, would he apologize. It happened when he was out speaking to the Chamber of Commerce; when he spoke to the Chamber of Commerce out in Deer Lake and the reporter got him alone. He was talking about the cuts that they were going to make to the civil service. He was talking about the Mike Harris plan. He was talking about how they had downsized the government, and when the reporter came out and reported in his editorial there was a big uproar. It was never said, it was never done; but, Mr. Speaker, it was proven in this Budget that reporter was right. What the reporter said -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: April 5: Budget carbon copy of Mike Harris plan.

Here is what he said, Mr. Speaker: The Williams-led party showed signs of leaning in that direction when the soon-to-be Education Minister, John Ottenheimer, let slip some of the PC policy platform in Deer Lake at the end of the summer. His speech, delivered to members of the Chamber of Commerce, was preferred to references of revolution which he felt the Province needed. When the parallels were drawn to the Harris 1995 policy Tory book were raised, the word revolution was dropped from any campaign speeches and instead the term new approach was filled in with the script.

I ask the minster, why doesn't he go out and apologize to that reporter who you gave that commentary to, which was proven right?

The Premier, also, there were going to be no layoffs in the civil service. Out on the West Coast, Humber West, Corner Brook is a very much union town. October 17, he put in the Western Star, signed by his own name, signed by the Premier of the Province, today's Premier of this Province - the Premier of the Province - take a closer look. The Danny Williams team has clearly stated that under a Progressive Conservative government there will be no layoffs in the public service and we will not reduce the public service by 25 per cent, contrary to allegations by our political opponents.

I ask the members opposite, if you want to see it, you can read it. Show me where the word massive is in this. Show me the word massive. It is not there.

In a press release, Mr. Speaker, that the Premier sent out himself: I have clearly stated that there will be no public service layoffs.

I ask the members opposite, show me where the word massive is. He even went on, Mr. Speaker, just to show the union town in Corner Brook how much he is pro-union, the Premier of the Province even went on, Mr. Speaker. Here is what he said: We have learned from their actions that massive layoffs and public service rollbacks do not work. They only serve to hurt the economy in the long run. We will not repeat these mistakes.

That is what the Premier of this Province said, Mr. Speaker. That is what he said.

Mr. Speaker, I have to go on to talk about an issue in Corner Brook which, of course, was ongoing, which we assume is settled, is the MRI in Corner Brook. I remember when I stood up here and asked why the delay. The Minister of Justice said - when I said, you are supposed to have the political clout; why isn't the MRI up and done? He said, show me where I said political clout - that I have political clout.

Mr. Speaker, I asked on October 15, in his own ad that he put in the Western Star: It is time that this economic - we have the political clout that it deserves.

I say to the minister, if you do not read your own ads you should not stand up in this House and ask where the political clout is.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, the MRI - when you want to talk about where one thing was said in Corner Brook and another thing was said in St. John's. We, as a government, went through the procedure last year and we wanted to put the MRI where the best evidence-based decision was. That was what we decided on as a government. After consultation with everybody in this Province, all the health care professionals, the decision was made that it was going to be put in Corner Brook. After the election, it came out that it had to be done, that there had to be renovations. Of course, the Premier of the Province stood up and said: I did not know anything about renovations. The first I had heard of it. That was in February or March of this year. The Minister of Justice, the Member for Humber East, stood up and said: I did not know they needed renovations.

I could say to them again, if you did not know about the renovations, you should not have let the former health care critic send out the press release August 20, 2003, demanding that the renovations start immediately.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: That is how they are saying one thing to the people in Corner Brook and another thing in here.

Also, Mr. Speaker, there were letters sent to the Premier from the doctors themselves, asking that the renovations be started. Then we have the Minister of Justice coming up saying: The Liberals never put in the Budget for this - the Budget. They did not do the job properly. That was what he was saying out in Corner Brook. That is exactly what he was saying in Corner Brook.

I say to all the members opposite, there you are again sitting down listening to everything that is said to you. Mr. Speaker, he said: The Liberals never promised -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. JOYCE: The Liberals never put enough money in the Budget. The Liberals never did enough planning for it, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

There is altogether too much noise in the Chamber.

The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, it is hard for the members opposite to listen to the truth, so I do not blame them.

Mr. Speaker, then we have the minister out in Corner Brook saying about the MRI. The money was put in place. He was telling the people: No, it is not there, it wasn't put in there. Here is what he said, Mr. Speaker, in St. John's on the CBC radio. He was saying one thing in Corner Brook. Here is what he said on CBC in St. John's, Mr. Speaker: The money that was put in the Province's Budget, the $500,000 that would be enough for a mobile unit, was not for a fixed unit. A fixed unit would cost $1.3 million, so we had to come up with an additional $800,000. It definitely will be a fixed unit and, of course, it will serve not only the people of Western Newfoundland but the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Jacinta Wall: Mr. Marshall said the $800,000 is not new money. He says it was found in last year's budget. Mr. Marshall says that the renovations will start in the next month so that he has advised the health board to go ahead. I say to the member, what -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

I didn't really want to interrupt the proceedings, but there is a parliamentary procedure that even in debate when we refer to members of the House that we refer to them by their districts rather than by their first names.

We have had some discussion back and forth when people have referred to members by their personal names. I ask members if they would respect the parliamentary procedure and do it by their district instead.

Thank you very much.

MR. JOYCE: Sorry about that, Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to set the record straight and I got too excited, I guess.

Mr. Speaker, we must also talk about the other big health concern with the long-term care facility in Corner Brook. We all know, Mr. Speaker, in Corner Brook and other areas about the long-term health care facility in Corner Brook. It is well documented and has been a public issue for a number of years.

The Premier, when he was out in Corner Brook over the last year or year and a half, had six different positions on it. His last position was that it is his number one priority for this government; the number one priority, Mr. Speaker, for this government. Then again, Mr. Speaker, I was fortunate enough to be in Corner Brook one day and in St. John's the next.

Here is what the Minister of Health told the Western Health Care Board at a private meeting, Mr. Speaker. He is what she said. Here is what she told the Western Health Care Board. She told them, the department would not know where the long-term care facility ranked in the provincial rankings, Mr. Speaker; completely opposite from what the Premier is telling the people out on the West Coast. Completely opposite! He promised to have the long-term care facility built in four years. There was $300,000 put aside for, I am assuming, the engineering cost and fees. I just hope that somewhere along the line the Premier and the Minister of Health can get together and get this long-term care facility done. If they are going to start building it, it has to be built this year to be built within the commitment that the Premier made of a four-year mandate. It is a $55 million facility. It took two years to build a $23 million facility at the Civic Centre in Corner Brook, Mr. Speaker.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. JOYCE: They are going to take the wing out of the hospital in Fogo.

MR. REID: Oh yes, and built it out there.

MR. JOYCE: I say to the Member for Fogo, do not take it personally. That is not the only commitment that is going to be cancelled.

Mr. Speaker, if you want to look at commitments that were made, I look at my colleague here, the Member for Grand Bank and look at the Grand Bank facility that was committed. Of course, all of these people out here -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. JOYCE: If the Member for Gander wants to have a few words, your seat is over there. You are welcome to stand up.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: I will tell the Member for Gander, I will not get on Open Line one night and praise the government for cancelling the facility in Gander and after being slapped on the wrist, get on the next night and apologize. This member will not do that, I guarantee you that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: I will guarantee you that. If you wants to have a few words, there is your seat. You have lots of time to get up. It may be a good time for you this week, the Premier is not here.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, you take the Grand Bank hospital. The Premier got up but he did not want to talk about it. Does the Premier know they have him on tape down in Grand Bank making that commitment? Does he know that? Do the members opposite? They have him on tape making the commitment. Going down, talking about trying to buy votes, win votes, or win a district, do whatever you have to do. Actually saying it, Mr. Speaker. Being on tape with it and then turning around and saying: Well, I'm not sure. I don't know. What did you say to the Member for Grand Bank? Without standing up and saying: Yes I said it and I am going to fulfill that commitment because the people of Grand Bank, during the election, asked me to help them out and I said I would and I will. But not this Premier, Mr. Speaker.

When you look at this Budget here, Mr. Speaker, you have to look at all the commitments that were made and the ones that were never kept. I know some. The Member for Grand Bank - the cancer clinic in Grand Falls is another one, Mr. Speaker. The Fogo hospital is another one; the auditorium in Lake Melville. Here is the Member for Lake Melville over laughing at the commitments that the Premier made, and one of them was his own district. Over laughing at the commitments. I say to the member, why don't you stand up and be a man and tell the Premier you want that commitment fulfilled? Be a man about it. That is what I say, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JOYCE: You want to talk about all the -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A point of order by the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and Employment.

MS BURKE: And Status of Women.

Mr. Speaker, I would just like to make a point. I find it very offensive that he asked members to stand up and be a man. When a person is in this House of Assembly they have to be honest and they have to present with integrity and I think their gender is irrelevant. I think we all have to be very honest.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: I feel the comments of: be a man - and this is not the first time I have heard it in this House - I think are completely irrelevant. I think that a person is here under merit and their integrity, and they should be treated that way.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands, on the point of order.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, I am not sure if I said something wrong because I was speaking to a man. If I was speaking to a lady, I would say: Would the lady - or a woman or whatever. But, Mr. Speaker, when I refer to a man as a man, he is a man. There is nothing derogative about calling a man, a man. So, Mr. Speaker -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair reminds all members that they should always refer to each other by their districts or by their titles, and then we avoid these exchanges that are gender specific. Then we do not get into these exchanges back and forth across the House as we had just a few moments ago.

There is no point of order, but there is certainly a point of caution and there is a point being made by the hon. minister to say that all members should respect each other and treat each other with the dignity that this House demands of all members.

The hon. member has a couple of seconds before 5:30 p.m. to finish up his speech.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, just before I adjourn debate, I would just say to the Minister of Human Resources and Employment and Status of Women, thanks for your comment but you should let the twenty offices know where they are closing. If you want to stand up and defend that, Minister, let them know. Spend some time with that.

Mr. Speaker, I adjourn the debate.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: It has been moved that the debate be adjourned.

All those in favour, aye.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: Contra-minded, nay.

The debate is adjourned.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it being 5:30 p.m., I move that the House do now adjourn. We will be back tomorrow at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER: It has been moved that this House do now adjourn until tomorrow at 1:30 p.m.

All those in favour, aye.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: Contra-minded, nay.

The motion is carried.

On motion, the House at its rising adjourned until tomorrow, Tuesday, at 1:30 p.m.