December 1, 2004 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No. 50


The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

This afternoon we would like to welcome the following people to our gallery. The members of the town council of Hant's Harbour, together with Mayor Louise Tuck, and the local FFAW Union Executive Committee from Harbour Breton in the District of Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune, and they are with Eric Day the president, executive members: Gloria Pierce, Geraldine Skinner and Mike Whittle. Welcome to the people's House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: This afternoon we have members' statements by the following members: the hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair; the hon. the Member for the District of Trinity-Bay de Verde; the hon. the Member for the District of Bay of Islands; the hon. the Member for the District of Bonavista South, and the hon. the Member for the District of Trinity North.

The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to honour individuals from my district who have recently won provincial awards for their excellence in the business community.

Mr. Speaker, Jamie Pye of Forteau, in the beautiful District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, has recently been recognized for his hard work and dedication towards his business and its operation.

Mr. Speaker, Jamie received the Excellence in Youth Leadership Award for setting an inspirational example for youth in our Province. Jamie took about the task of creating his own home-based business developing Web sites and producing desktop design for many businesses throughout the world.

Also recognized during this ceremony was the Labrador Fishermen's Union Shrimp Company Limited. They received the excellence in Fostering Entrepreneurship Award that recognizes an organization or an individual's distinguished efforts to promote, mentor and to foster entrepreneurship at a community level.

Mr. Speaker, this company has been a tremendous player in improving the life of Southern Labradorians and we are very glad that they have been honoured in this way. I would like to recognize the efforts of their Chair, Frank Flynn, and their Board of Directors and also the tremendous leadership that it has brought to the company by their President Gilbert Linstead and their Vice-President, Ken Fowler.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of the House to join me in congratulating both Jamie Pye and the Labrador Fishermen's Union Shrimp Company Limited on their recent awards.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity-Bay de Verde.

MS JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, would like to welcome the members of the town council of Hant's Harbour here today.

Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to recognize seventeen-year-old Courtney Penney of Green's Harbour, who will be bringing Christmas to Costa Rica kids on December 7.

Courtney was one of two young people selected in the Province to be part of the Samaritan's Purse/Operation Christmas Child campaign. This project involves filling shoe boxes with gifts for less fortunate children around the world. Courtney has been contributing to this campaign for the past several years. She is a very active volunteer in her community and she has worked at a summer camp for under-privileged children.

Courtney was sent a video outlining the conditions of Costa Rica. To quote her, she said, "it was hard to watch the children rummaging through the garbage and dumps looking for something to eat." She went on to say that going there to make a difference for those children was an overwhelming feeling for her.

I ask all hon. members of this House to join me in recognizing Courtney Penney for her thoughtfulness and compassion for others this holiday season.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon the Member for Bay of Islands.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in the House today to recognize a group of individuals from the Town of Cox's Cove, who took the initiative to form the Cox's Cove Wellness Foundation.

This Foundation is a non-profit organization recently established in the Town of Cox's Cove for the sole purpose of helping residents of the town who are required to travel to other areas of the Province or out of Province for medical treatment. Various fundraising events have already taken place and the support from the community has been very positive.

Since its formation this past October, the Foundation has been able to help ease the financial burden of two individuals having to travel outside the area for medical purposes, with four other residents scheduled to travel within the next three weeks. This group saw the increasing need that was in the community and took steps to be proactive.

I ask all members of the House to join me in recognizing committee Chairperson Gus Mullins;

Secretary Iris Park; Treasurer Brenda Park, and committee members Holly Payne, Stephen Goosney and Tim Brown, for demonstrating their true community spirit and commitment to the residents of Cox's Cove.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker

Mr. Speaker, yesterday saw the first municipal election in the new Town of Trinity Bay North. Trinity Bay North is comprised of the Towns of Catalina, Port Union and Melrose. These three towns saw the advantages of regionalization and decided to combine services and realize greater advantages through government programs and tax collections.

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate not only the seven successful candidates, but the other eight candidates as well who offered themselves for election.

Mr. Speaker, the one thing that was certainly gratifying was to see the seven successful candidates, being the three former mayors, and four former councillors, being elected to this new council. This was certainly an endorsement to the decision those same councillors made to amalgamate the three towns.

I congratulate the three former mayors - Mayor Darryl Johnson, Mayor Tim Duffett, and Mayor Brendan Peters - on their re-election, as well as former councillors: Fred Russell, James Mackey, Pauline Stagg and Neville Samson.

As the MHA for the area, I look forward to working with the new council, and I am certain that each member of this Legislature joins with me in saying congratulations.

 

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

 

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: In recognition of World AIDS Day, I rise today to acknowledge the seriousness of one of the greatest medical and social challenges of our time. On World AIDS Day, we are united to support the individuals, families and communities affected by this disease. We also renew our commitment to prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS, to develop more effective treatments, and to find a cure.

Over the last two decades, AIDS has claimed the lives of more than 20 million people worldwide. This year's campaign theme is, "Have you heard me today? Women, Girls, HIV and AIDS". It recognizes that behind these staggering numbers are the names and faces of increasingly more young girls and women, especially in Third-World countries.

Here at home, many of you will recall the spirit and talent of Tommy Sexton, whose courage and openness in battling this disease marked a pivotal moment in AIDS awareness in Newfoundland and Labrador. Throughout his illness, Tommy continued to strive to eliminate the stigma and discrimination surrounding the disease which is still a major obstacle to effective HIV/AIDS prevention and care.

Today, the Sexton family continue the work their son began. Each year the family assists in organizing the Tommy Sexton Benefit fundraiser, ensuring that his legacy continues to contribute to the future of our Province in a very meaningful way. This year, the benefit will be held on Friday, December 3, at the Bella Vista.

Mr. Speaker, this is a disease that knows no limits and respects no boundaries. In our Province over the last twenty years, 230 people have tested positive with HIV, and ninety-one individuals have reportedly contracted full-blown AIDS. Families and friends have had to say goodbye to the seventy-nine people who have lost their life with this disease.

While the number of positive HIV tests have declined in recent years, public awareness and education are still important in reducing the number of people exposed to this disease.

To support our struggle against HIV/AIDS our government is actively engaged in preventive programming in support of the treatment of HIV/AIDS. A joint committee established in 2002 by the Department of Health and Community Services and the AIDS Committee of Newfoundland and Labrador continues to oversee a Newfoundland and Labrador AIDS Strategy and Plan of Action. In collaboration with community partners, we work to deliver HIV and AIDS services throughout the Province. Our government assists the AIDS Committee in funding the operation of a 1-800 line to assist people and support those diagnosed with AIDS with counselling and education on treatment options, among other things.

Today I encourage all members of the House to wear a symbolic red ribbon and voice a shared commitment to promote the acceptance of persons living with HIV/AIDS; to turn the tide against the spread of this disease, bringing hope and healing to those who are suffering, and finding a cure.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

World AIDS Day is, indeed, a time to unite in support of the many people and communities around the world that are inflicted and affected by this deadly disease. I thank the minister for an advanced copy of her statement today.

Mr. Speaker, it saddens me to know that so many people, especially women and girls, are powerless in fighting this disease in Third World countries. A year ago I listened to a speech that was given by Bono of U2 as he campaigned for foreign aid for Africa to fight against the growing cases of HIV and AIDS in that particular country. His plea in Canada was substantiated by alarming statistics and real life experiences. While Canada contributes to this worthwhile cause in Third World countries, I guess the amount of our contribution is quite small in the context of the problem as it exists around the world.

I would say to the minister today that we, as a Province, should also support such causes in Newfoundland and Labrador. I ask the minister, on this occasion, to give consideration to a proposal that she would have from the AIDS Committee in Newfoundland and Labrador to increase the capacity of its needle exchange program because users in that program have increased steadily and the recommendations of the OxyContin task force was, indeed, to contribute more money to that particular cause.

Mr. Speaker, studies have shown us that the risk of sharing needles is very high when it comes to HIV and AIDS and other infectious diseases. So I support the request that has been tabled in the Department of Health and Community Services with regard to their proposal.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's time has expired.

MS JONES: May I have a couple of minutes to clue up?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: The member has leave.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I know that the government opposite is serious about doing something in Newfoundland and Labrador to combat the spread of this disease in our own Province. I think funding this proposal for the AIDS Society in Newfoundland and Labrador would be a good first place to start, or a good next step for the government opposite, and I ask the minister to give it her full consideration.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to join in recognizing World AIDS Day. It is a disease which has had, and is having, a devastating effect on whole countries in Africa. We know the work of Stephen Lewis, first as UN Ambassador for Canada, and now a special envoy on AIDS. He has worked assiduously to ensure that people throughout the world understand how serious the problem is. We wish that the Government of Canada would do more to support programs throughout the world, and particularly in Africa for this terrible disease.

As the minister said, here at home we have seen some reduction over the years in HIV AIDS, but in the last two years we have seen an increase over 2002, and most of these new numbers are through heterosexual contact -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's time has expired.

MR. HARRIS: By leave, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.

MR. HARRIS: The AIDS Committee is seeing also an increase in contact with injunction drug use in this Province, and a serious problem that it is. They are working to increase public awareness, and working with drug users trying to get a needle exchange program that could reduce the harm that could be caused by HIV infection. We urge the government to support the AIDS Committee in this work. They currently have a part-time clinic for HIV testing. That should be supported by government. We ask that government implement the recommendations of the OxyContin task force that would assist the AIDS Committee in this work, and this should be done on a priority basis, given the seriousness of this particular disease and the methods of transmission.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to advise my hon. colleagues of my appearance yesterday in Ottawa before the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development to discuss Bill C-15, An Act To Amend The Migratory Birds Convention Act And The Canadian Environmental Protection Act.

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-15 is very significant for the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. It addresses this serious issue of marine pollution, as well as illegal dumping of bilge oil in our oceans.

Illegally discharging bilge oil off our coastlines is an issue that this government takes very seriously. I have raised this issue several times with the federal government, including with the previous Minister of Environment, David Anderson, as well as the current Minister, Stéphane Dion, who, as recently as last month, assured myself and my Atlantic counterparts that this legislation to deal with this issue would be introduced in the House of Commons. I am pleased, Mr. Speaker, that the bill has received first reading and is now before the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development.

Mr. Speaker, I requested an opportunity to appear before the standing committee because this government is very supportive of Bill C-15. The bill will strengthen existing legislation to allow for better protection of our marine environment through expanded jurisdiction, greater surveillance and enforcement capability, as well as stiffer fines to offenders, the very things, Mr. Speaker, that I have been calling on for years.

Mr. Speaker, every year thousands of oiled seabirds are washing ashore, and are falling victim to reckless polluters of our marine environment. The events of this week are another reminder of the seriousness of this issue, as hundreds of seabirds tarnished with bilge oil are turning up in Placentia and St. Mary's bays. Those responsible for such environmental abuse must be prosecuted to the fullest extent. During my presentation to the standing committee, I stressed the importance of ensuring that Bill C-15 is enacted as soon as possible so that the environmental crime that is occurring off our shores is put to a stop.

Mr. Speaker, I was well received by the standing committee yesterday, and this Province's involvement and recommendations will assist that committee and the federal minister in recommending speedy passage of this important legislation. Mr. Speaker, we will continue to impress upon the federal government the seriousness of this issue to our Province and all of Atlantic Canada, and stress, as well, that once Bill C-15 is enacted, appropriate resources must be put in place to effectively enforce the enhanced legislation.

Mr. Speaker, we will continue to assist the federal government in whatever way possible in addressing this important issue. This government will work diligently to ensure the proper protection of our valuable marine environment for present and future generations.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I want to thank the hon. Minister for a copy of his statement.

While Bill C-15 is an important first step, the federal government needs to go much further. Ships entering Canadian waters know there is little chance of getting caught, and if they do get caught the fines that they get amount to pocket change. According to the International Fund for Animal Welfare, the largest fine ever handed out for such an offence in Canada is $125,000. Meanwhile, the U.S.A. and Britain levy fines in the range of half a million dollars. Is there any wonder ships heading into the Eastern Seaboard of the United States wait until they get into the Canadian waters before they start cleaning their bilges? I think this is a first step in terms of cleaning up particularly Placentia and St. Mary's Bays.

I hope that the minister also, while he was in Ottawa, had an opportunity to talk to people, because we did have two legal spills in Newfoundland and Labrador over the last couple of weeks. I hope that he did have the opportunity to talk to the federal representatives to make sure that he took the position backed by 95 per cent of the people in Newfoundland and Labrador who demand that we have independent observers, environmental observers, on our exploration and production platforms.

I hope that he will come back in the next week or so with an announcement that this is going to happen on our production platforms.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

With the enormous number of vessels passing through the shipping lanes close to our shores, this issue is of supreme importance to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. I hope, Mr. Speaker, that Bill C-15 straightens out the jurisdictional problems between the Coast Guard and the Department of Environment on this issue so that we do not see the farce that we had last year with one department laying charges and the other department dropping them.

Mr. Speaker, the only effective way to solve this problem of discharge of bilge water and other pollution is to have an effective deterrent. This does not happen in the United States, Mr. Speaker, because there is a serious deterrent, significant fines up to a million dollars enforced regularly by the Coast Guard, so there is very little bilge water discharged in the U.S. waters because of that. Until we get serious deterrents and proper enforcement, good surveillance, we are going to continue to have this kind of problem, Mr. Speaker, and it should be addressed very quickly.

I hope the minister is satisfied that this bill does the job. Until we see it in terms of action we will not know, but that is what has to be done: high fines, proper surveillance, and significant deterrents.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, last night we learned that FPI will no longer operate the Harbour Breton fish plant under any set of circumstances. Government has not held the company to their commitments made in 2002, and government refuses to hold the company to their responsibilities under the FPI Act. Mr. Speaker, the government's silence obviously means they agree with the business plan put forward by Mr. Derrick Rowe and FPI.

Mr. Speaker, again I ask the Acting Premier, - I am assuming it is the Government House Leader - will the government now come clean with the people of the Province and admit that they agree with FPI's plan to abandon Harbour Breton, and that they knew about the plan months ago?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we have been in extensive discussions with FPI as it relates to an income trust transaction that was proposed by them back in April, I guess it was, when we had our first meeting. That has been the nature of the discussion that we have been in with them for months.

As for the facility at Harbour Breton and the issues related to groundfish production in general in Newfoundland and Labrador, I suspect that everybody in this House of Assembly, and just about everybody in the Province, particularly those who are involved with the industry, know the challenges of the groundfish industry. We witnessed them over the past two or three years as it related to Arnold's Cove, and, Mr. Speaker, we worked with those people to find a solution.

Mr. Speaker, we understand what the situation is in the groundfish industry, and we refuse to mislead the people of the Province by telling them that it is anything other than what it is.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the value-added and marketing division of FPI is the most valuable asset of the company. Once this division is sold off, there is very little protection for other fish plants and workers in the Province. If government approves this plan, we believe it will be the beginning of the end of FPI in the Province completely.

Under the FPI Act, Mr. Speaker, government can prevent this sale from happening. I ask the Acting Premier again: Will this government stand up for the people of the Province and refuse FPI's request to sell off their value-added and marketing division, or are they going to continue to sit idly by, as they have done in the case of Harbour Breton, and allow that company to get out of the fish processing business all together?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, as I have said numerous times in this House and outside, we have been in extensive discussions with FPI on their income trust transaction. We have asked many, many, many questions as it relates to that proposal. We have sought undertakings as it relates to that proposal, and we have indicated that once we have concluded the negotiations with FPI - if we do conclude them - then we will bring it to the House for a free vote.

Mr. Speaker, that is where it is. That has been articulated many times. Then, Mr. Speaker, everybody in this House, and everybody in this Province, will have the opportunity to view the proposal for what it is.

As for getting out of groundfish production or out of fish production in this Province, Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Leader of the Opposition, where was he when FPI closed down everything else in the Province?

Mr. Speaker, there is a very serious situation in Harbour Breton and, unfortunately, the Leader of the Opposition continues to play politics with it instead of giving people the straight answers and the facts and understanding what the situation is and what we are up against. When we all understand what we are up against, then we might find a solution, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, Hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I can tell the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture where I was when they tried to lay off 700 people two years ago. I was the Premier, we stood up and it did not happen.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, I say again, one of the next steps in the FPI business plan is to sell off the profitable value-added marketing division to increase shareholder profits while rural communities shut down, like Harbour Breton. The Premier says he will not interfere and that personally he does not see anything wrong with the sell off. He says there will be a free vote, as the minister just pointed out in this Legislature.

I ask the acting Premier again, Mr. Speaker, when will that free vote occur so we can all find out how many members on the government side are going to support the Premier and let them do the sell off and abandon communities like Harbour Breton, Fortune and Bonavista?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is unfortunate that the Leader of the Opposition, who knows full-well what this situation is - it is unfortunate that he has not married himself to the facts for a change. It is unfortunate that he is so careless with the truth. That is what the problem is here in this debate, Mr. Speaker; that one side will not let the facts get in the way of a good argument. That is what the trouble is here in this Province with the fishery.

Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is, we have said - and if he did not hear me over the past week-and-a-half, over the past six months on this issue, myself and the Premier, I said it three minutes ago - that when the negotiations conclude with FPI it will be brought before this House, there will be a free vote and a decision will be taken then if we get to that point. If we do not reach a successful negotiation, then we will not be here with it. It will not take place. That is the fact of the matter, Mr. Speaker.

Now, Mr. Speaker, if the Leader of the Opposition wants to continue misleading the people of the Province then he should at least acknowledge that what he is talking about are not the facts. At least let the people of the Province know what the situation is.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Fisheries as well, and I can tell the minister that if anybody has misled the people in this Province about FPI, it has been you.

Mr. Speaker, on January 14, 2002, this Minister of Fisheries and his party made a commitment to the people of Harbour Breton, and I have it right here on this piece of paper. They made a commitment that there would be no layoffs at their FPI plant unless it was negotiated with the union. Last night, I say to the minister, 350 FPI employees of that town were told to go home, their services there were no longer required.

I ask him, Mr. Speaker: Did you or your party do anything, anything, to try and honour the commitment you made to those people two years ago or was that just another pre-election gimmick like so many other gimmicks that you have broken your promises on?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind members, when they address their questions, if they could address them through the Chair rather than directly and pointing at the members to whom they are directing the question.

The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, maybe if when the member, who just spoke, did a job as a Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture had dealt with the structural problems that were in this industry, maybe we would not be confronted with a lot of the problems that we have today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Maybe if he had taken his job more seriously - unlike the Leader of the Opposition, we are dealing with the facts.

What did the Leader of the Opposition do two years ago, three years ago, Mr. Speaker? He saw a parade forming up and he said: There go my people. I must lead them. That is what he said. Those were the facts of the matter back then. When the board of FPI changed, what did he say in this House in that chair? He stood and said: Quite frankly, I did not have enough interest to ask them any questions but I thanked them for their time and sent them on their way. That is what he said.

Now, Mr. Speaker, on this issue, I am dealing with the people factually and honestly. We will work to try and find a solution for Harbour Breton but I will not stand in front of this House or in front (inaudible).

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The minister talks about fixing structural problems. I guess by fixing structural problems you are telling 350 people in Harbour Breton to go home. That is how you are fixing the structural problems in this industry.

Mr. Speaker, the people of Harbour Breton have been hung out to dry by FPI and this government. All they have been left with is some vague concept of starting a co-op. I ask the minister: With no fish plant, no money, no resource and no fish, how do you propose the co-op is going to work in Harbour Breton?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I will say this, that is exactly the same situation that the people of St. Anthony found themselves in a few years ago, no plant, no fish and no company, and we found a way of making it work. We will work with the people of Harbour Breton to try to find the same thing.

I will ask him this, Mr. Speaker: Without fish, without a plant, who is going to operate? That is the challenge, Mr. Speaker. He can dance around the issue all he likes in this House, and outside in the public, and play politics with it, the fact of the matter is, there is no fish, there is no plant. Is a huge problem here and we have to work together to try to find a solution. The solution is not as simple as standing up in this House and saying, order FPI to build a plant and order FPI to go back into production.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister, that it wasn't his government who helped out the people of St. Anthony, and I also say to the minister, that the problem in St. Anthony was fixed with a lot of government money, something that you are not willing to put forward to the people of Harbour Breton.

Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister, he knows, I know, everyone in the fishing industry knows, that the only hope this town has of surviving in the fishing industry is if FPI leaves a portion of their quotas in that town.

Will the minister now join with the MP for the area, Mr. Bill Matthews, in ensuring that FPI leaves part of these quotas in the town for the benefit of the people of Harbour Breton?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will say to the former Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, that he was no part of the solution in St. Anthony, and he will be no part of the solution in Harbour Breton, I suspect. The government money that went into St. Anthony and the fish that is being processed in St. Anthony is in spite of people like him.

Mr. Speaker, I will say this: I will work with the people in Harbour Breton, the federal government, the fishermen's union, and whoever chooses to decide to work co-operatively with us to find a solution. If part of that is the fish that is associated with FPI, if that is part of the solution, then, Mr. Speaker, we will support it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: (Inaudible) part of the company that built it.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. REID: Vice-President, to be exact.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to welcome the Harbour Breton union committee here to the House as well today. I am not sure if I am supposed to do it, but I took my key from the Member for Bay de Verde. She did it, so I guess I can do it as well.

I have concerns about the usefulness and validity of the inspection which was done by government just a few days ago. Last week, I asked the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture if we could get an independent study of the Harbour Breton fish plant to check the validity of the report done by the company. The minister agreed, and Occupational Health and Safety inspectors were sent to the town.

My question is to the Minister of Government Services. Can the minister confirm that the structural design engineer that accompanied the team did not visit the plant because of personal reasons which required him to return to St. John's, and the only structural design engineers present were the ones hired by FPI to make the initial inspection?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the Member for Twillingate & Fogo, we are on this side of the House; we will decide who answers the questions. They are on that side; they will decide who asks them.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Once again, Mr. Speaker, I will say this -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair has recognized the hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As we have seen right on through this, Mr. Speaker, at least there is one person on that side of the House who takes this matter seriously and asks the serious questions.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: As for the matter being questioned, we will take that under advisement.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. TAYLOR: We will take that under advisement. I do not know what the answer to that question is, and the minister is unsure of what the answer to that question is; but, Mr. Speaker, we will check on that and we will certainly get back to the member on it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

MR. LANGDON: Mr. Speaker, we know that the Harbour Breton fish plant has deficiencies; we are all aware of that. What we do not know is how much it will cost to have the plant made safe and operational. If the town is to attract another operator, this information is vital. Will the minister support the Town of Harbour Breton in contracting the services of an independent engineering company so that they can get an accurate assessment of the state of the plant and the cost of necessary repairs?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, as I said in this House last week to the hon. member when he asked whether or not we will be prepared to engage in funding an engineering study, I said at that time we would first send an Occupational Health and Safety team into the facility and have a look, and if something like that was required we would certainly give it serious consideration.

As well, Mr. Speaker, when we met with FPI - myself and the Premier met with FPI and the FFAW on Monday evening, I believe it was - we indicated that we thought that it was a worthwhile initiative to pursue an industrial adjustment services committee, funding for that, to look at the options in Harbour Breton, the challenges in Harbour Breton, to try and find a way forward. As a part of that, Mr. Speaker, obviously, as I said last week, determining the integrity of the structure and the cost of repairs is an integral part of finding a solution.

Mr. Speaker, I can say, I think, without fear of contradiction, that we will be prepared to do that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

MR. LANGDON: Thank you.

My last question is to the Minister of Government Services.

Up to this point, the local Occupational Health and Safety Committee of the Harbour Breton plant has not been permitted to accompany the team doing the inspections. Will the minister now commit to having a truly independent study of the facility done and guarantee the local Occupational Health and Safety Committee from the Harbour Breton plant, that they can accompany the inspection team as well?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, as I guess I sort of suggested before, if it is felt by the community, by the plant local and by the MHA that there is a need for a further evaluation of the facility, we will be prepared to engage in that. Personally, I do not think there is any reason why - there is absolutely no reason why we would oppose the Occupational Health and Safety Committee of the plant accompanying the inspection team, and, Mr. Speaker, I cannot see where - at this stage, FPI certainly should not have any opposition to it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is to the Minister of Education concerning CareerSearch 2004, which showed, Mr. Speaker, positive trends in the public system, including Memorial University, the College of the North Atlantic, and the non-profit journeyperson programs offered through the unions; but, Mr. Speaker, with respect to the private colleges in this Province there were very disturbing trends. Because of high tuition, more students must borrow and they end up with higher debt. They have less employment prospects and receive lower wages, therefore having a higher default rate on student loans costing this government in excess of $400,000 per month in default of student loans.

I want to know, Mr. Speaker, when will this minister's government stop propping up the system through the student loan program, and when will they stop doing a disservice to students and young people seeking post-secondary education by giving these institutions credibility as an option for young people?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, yesterday we did release a document, CareerSearch 2004. Contained in that document is a lot of information that allows people to make good, informed choices as to what institution they attend, what program they do. It gives them information about the outcomes, the employment status, the wages. I say to the hon. member across the way, that is the accountability piece that we need to make sure that our students who are going into post-secondary can make good informed choices.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi on a supplementary.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

If he wants someone to read 600 pages of information to be able to figure out that, he has a different attitude than I do.

Why is this government, instead of studying our public system - which is working, and has been shown here for students because of recent changes - why aren't they studying what is happening in the private system and trying to find ways for the students who are now forced into the private system to have access to the public system or to have alternative public sources of education that would meet their needs? Why aren't they doing that instead of studying the public system which is recognized across the country and throughout the world as working well for the students of this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, again, in response to the question from the member opposite, I have to say to the member that this government is committed to a process which is going to make sure that the public post-secondary education system is moving forward in a direction which is necessary to cater to the needs of the particular students who are attending that particular post-secondary programming.

I say to the member, that this government is not afraid of change. There are changes that are necessary, just given the conditions within this Province, within this nation. I would say that it is an open process. It is one that we have gone out and asked the stakeholders what they need changed, what they need to remain the same. I say to the member, it is a process that is unfolding and I would ask that you bear with us as we go through that particular process.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Justice concerning the circuit court in Labrador as it pertains to Labrador West. I want to say to the minister, according to reports from the circuit court in Labrador West, the earliest court date for a trial that will require more than half a day hearing, as of the middle of November, will not be able to be scheduled until next June. I ask the minister if he thinks that is appropriate and what his plans are to do something about it?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the hon. member for his question and I appreciate his concern about the administration of justice in his district.

The facts that the hon. member stated are correct but they are correct for all courts. All provincial courts in the Province are booked six to eight months down the line for trials that will take more than half a day, such as trials that will take two or three days. Trials that are less than a half day, bookings can be obtained as soon as March and April. This is the same for all courts in the Province, Mr. Speaker, and, I am assured -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. T. MARSHALL: - by the chief judge that these time lines are within the Askov parameters for timely trials.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: My question is for the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

Yesterday, in answer to a question in this House concerning the shocking news that E-coli is in the drinking water in Lawn, which is on the Burin Peninsula, the minister said, and I quote: I have already told you we are going to give you $328,000 to correct the problem. This morning on the Open Line show, the minister reneged on that commitment.

I ask the minister: Do you not consider the presence of E-coli in a community's water system serious enough to put the health of the residents of Lawn ahead of your policy, that if the town cannot pay its share, the government will not help?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we take this situation very seriously with the E-coli in the water supply in the Town of Lawn. Yesterday we had a water and waste water specialist visit the Town of Lawn to see if there is any short-term solution. He is back now in his office. We are expecting a report within the next twenty-four to forty-eight hours. He is consulting with the town engineer there. In the short term, it looks like to solve the problem it could cost as much as $40,000. We are prepared to go there to do that in the short term. In the long term, it is going to cost $328,000 to put in a new chlorination system.

Yesterday, in this House of Assembly, I committed to 70 per cent of $328,000. I did that on three occasions. The print media got it right. The television media got it right. The radio media got it right but the member on the opposite side of the House of Assembly, obviously, is trying to play politics with this.

I did say that we would commit $328,000, after committing three times 70 per cent of the $328,000. She is playing games with this. She knew full well what was meant by that statement. I explained to her after Question Period yesterday what the situation was, but she decided to go out and play politics and try to put pressure on to get 100 per cent.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I sincerely believed the minister when he said it, because I thought, after three times, that he thought it was so serious an issue that he would, in fact, cover it 100 per cent. That is what I believed.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, the individuals involved in the Walkerton tragedy pleaded guilty yesterday and were sentenced. I read with disbelief the minister's comments in The Telegram today. He said: Canadian standards don't allow for the presence of any E. coli, but people shouldn't get sick if they boil their water properly."

Mr. Speaker, this is an incredulous statement. Did we not learn anything from the Walkerton experience? Minister, saying people should not get sick if they boil the water properly does not absolve this government of the responsibility of ensuring the people of this Province have safe drinking water.

Minister, will you live up to your promise and give the Town of Lawn the 100 per cent funding it needs to correct the E. coli problem, instead of breaking another promise?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member can quote from Hansard, I am sure I can. On three occasions yesterday, I said: $328,000 to correct the problem there in Lawn. We have offered to pay upwards of 70 per cent of $328,000. The second occasion: We are prepared to put 70 per cent of $328,000. The third occasion -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I said on three occasions in this House of Assembly, 70 per cent of $328,000.

As a matter of fact, we had discussions with the Mayor of the Town of Lawn as recently as this morning. The Mayor of Lawn realizes and accepts and understands that the town has to take some responsibility for the water supply within the Town of Lawn. We are going to meet in the very near future to work out the negotiations to come up with some kind of a figure for the Town of Lawn to put into the long-term solution of $328,000.

Mr. Speaker, the Mayor of Lawn realizes this. The media picked up on it and understood what was said in this House of Assembly yesterday. I wonder why she does not understand, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Let me read to the member the fourth quote, "I have already told you we are going to give you $328,000 to correct the problem, so, therefore, Mr. Speaker, it is being addressed as we speak."

I sincerely believe that you had a sober second thought recognizing the serious of this situation. We are talking E. Coli in the drinking water in Lawn.

Minister, it was almost a year ago when you met with the Town of Lawn to discuss their financial situation, and all of a sudden you were talking to the mayor this morning. They knew they had to replace their water treatment facility, because without it there was no chlorine in the town's drinking water and they could not afford to do it without help from the government. That was in January you met with them.

Minister, as of today, the Town of Lawn is still waiting for you to co-sign a loan so they can borrow their share of the money needed to address the problem with their water supply. Minister, if you will not live up to your promise of 100 per cent - and we all know in this House what 100 per cent means - won't you please co-sign a loan for the town so they can move quickly (inaudible)?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I do not understand why the hon. member will not listen, or refuses to listen. I did not make a promise of $328,000. I made three commitments yesterday in this House of Assembly of 70 per cent of $328,000. I made another commitment today in this House of Assembly, Mr. Speaker, to put upwards of $40,000 into solving the problem in the immediate future so the people can drink the water in Lawn, Mr. Speaker.

Not only that; I have had discussions, my department has had discussions, with the Mayor of Lawn, who understands, Mr. Speaker, that it is going to take some time to work out some agreement for the long-term solution for the chlorination system in the Town of Lawn. He understands it.

I have to ask this question back to the hon. member, Mr. Speaker. We are committed to it. I wonder why the hon. member refuses, or will not work with the Town of Lawn, with the government of the day, to come to some solution on this? I wonder why she wants to be an alarmist, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

I believe there is time for one question.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Environmental Health offices in the Department of Government Services are responsible for taking water samples in this Province. We know that some of these positions are currently vacant here in this Province. Is this an area like Walkerton, where government felt it was okay to cut corners during the budget?

Minister, do you plan to invest in more of these offices to provide more comprehensive testing in the Province to avert a tragedy?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, we are very concerned about the water in this Province, but the policy is that we do not sample untreated water. As the hon. member knows, across from me, the sampling can change from hour to hour, day to day, so it would be giving the public a false sense of security by saying that we would sample untreated water.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS WHALEN: I would say to the hon. member that we are indeed very concerned about the water quality in this Province.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time for Question Period has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees

MR. SPEAKER: In accordance with Section 43 of the Citizens' Representative Act, Chapter C-14.1, I am pleased to table the Second Annual Report of the Citizens' Representative Office to the House of Assembly.

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask members on both sides of the House for their co-operation.

Thank you very much.

The Chair recognizes the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Today, I want to table the Annual Report for the year ending December 31, 2003 of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador Pooled Pension Fund.

MR. SPEAKER: Tabling of further reports?

Notices of Motions.

Answers to Questions for Which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition on behalf of residents in my district, Mr. Speaker, as it relates to government's decision to not plough the roads between Red Bay and Lodge Bay this year.

Mr. Speaker, this is a very important issue for the people of my district, and it is a very critical issue in terms of transportation in that region of the Province. There has been well over $300 million invested in highway construction in this part of our Province. When the roads were constructed in this region of Labrador, it was done so with the intention that the roads would be left open, there would be regular maintenance and that people would have the option to use these roads on an annual basis, not just on a part-time basis.

Now, the people of my district would like to see the government make more of an effort. It is not good enough to say that because of the amount of snow on that road, or because of the cost of trying to clear the snow, we are refusing to do it from January until May. They would like to see more on an effort. I spoke with the Minister of Transportation and Works a few days ago, pleading with him again to give this some more further consideration, and he assures me that he will give it more further consideration within his department to see if there is a way that they may be able to extend the period of keeping this road open next year.

Mr. Speaker, I was flipping through the newspaper and I seen the ad that the minister has taken out in most all, I think, of the Robinson Blackmore papers in the Province, and it says: Snow means slow. Well, in my district, snow means there is no go, because the minister is not clearing the road in that particular area at all. So he might want to revise the wording in his ad a little bit, or at the very minimum, decide to change his decision and to clear snow off this road in this particular area.

Mr. Speaker, what it does is its cuts off the movement of transportation of goods and people between the Labrador Straits region and the Coast of Labrador region. In essence, it shuts out a number of communities from access to, one: the major airport in the district, which happens to be in Quebec, but the major airport in the region. It also cuts off transportation for a lot of the people who need the goods and services in the other part of the district, and it does so for a very extended period of time.

This road has always been a problem, I guess, since it was constructed and open. There is always a period of the year when you cannot use that highway because of the increased amounts of snow. People have accepted this to a degree, knowing that when it is impossible and weather permits you from using it, well then that is all you can do, but they had hoped that government would at least put an effort into fixing the problem, correcting the problem for the long term, whether it means rerouting a section of that road, widening the road, or, at the very least, putting in winter roads in that particular area. But, they have seen no action at all (inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

This being Wednesday, and it now being 3:00 p.m., the Chair, under Standing Order 63, will move to the Private Member's Motion.

I do believe we have the Private Member's Motion put forward by the Member for Gander.

The hon. the Member for Gander District on his Private Member's Motion.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, I not only stand in this House today as the MHA for Gander, the home of the mighty Gander River, I might say, but also as a man, a resident, a resident of Newfoundland and Labrador and an avid fisherperson.

On Monday I tabled a private member's resolution, a resolution that I passionately believe in. I will read it into the record. The record should read that this is a federal responsibility, and is a responsibility that I think should be taken seriously and a responsibility that I think that affects all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians in regard to the economy and actually enjoying the outside world.

I will read into the record right now the body of the resolution. It reads:

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that this House of Assembly call on the Government of Canada to live up to its responsibility and implement an effective inland fisheries enforcement program which would include special investigations, enforcement officers who are non-river based and a substantial increase in the funding currently provided to DFO for enforcement.

Mr. Speaker, I moved to Gander from the East Coast about thirty years ago and one of the first things that I was introduced to was fly fishing, a pass time that I came to really love and spend a lot of my time at it. Over the years, I have not only fished the Gander River but I have fished the Conne River on the South Coast, I fished the Exploits in Central, I fished Ragged Harbour up in Bonavista North, I fished the Hunt River and the Eagle on the Great Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, as I moved from pool to pool salmon fishing at given times, I would come across evidence of poaching and evidence of nets, and would come back to my home and report it, but then I would fly-fish again and see the same thing again. This was all due to a lack of enforcement on the Gander rivers and a lack of resources from the federal government to do so.

Mr. Speaker, we all referenced the closing of the Northern cod fishery in 1992, but I also would like to remind people that the Atlantic salmon commercial fishery was closed prior to that. I think it was closed in various sectors at various times, but I think that the whole commercial salmon fishery was closed prior to 1992.

Before I moved into Gander - I was a young man - I also fished on the Southern Shore, and we had salmon licences. That was a big part of our income, and that was closed. It hurt a fair number of Newfoundland and Labradorians, but also, Mr. Speaker, it affected the residents who fly-fished in this Province. It is a fishery that generates a lot of dollars into the economy.

Mr. Speaker, over that period of time also, and since then, as a fly fisherperson, I have seen the daily take go from - I think it was, back then, and I go back to the early 1970s - I think we had a take of three salmon per day, down to now what it is today on the Gander River. I think it varies over the Province, but this is a valuable, valuable resource, and we cannot afford to see it misused and abused. We have to do something about it.

Mr. Speaker, I will just give you a background in regards to the salmon fishing and fly fishing in this Province. Mr. Speaker, there are 186 licenced salmon rivers in this Province, Gander being one of them, and Gander being probably the mightiest of them all, as I see it, because the Gander stretches from Glenwood down to Gander Bay. Almost 69 per cent, I believe, of all the Atlantic salmon caught in Canada are caught in this Province, Mr. Speaker. Sixty-nine per cent is a large percentage, and that has to have a lot of significance in regard to what it means to the economy of this Province.

Also, Mr. Speaker, I might say that the Province's salmon resources in terms of the number of rivers and the population itself is greater than all of New England's and all of the other Atlantic Provinces as well. That will just give you the vast area that all of these rivers constitute over this geographic land mass of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, I think, if I can remember right, that the estimate on regard to what it generates into the economy is $100 million per year. Also, the recreational portion of that resource, I think it is 2,500 direct jobs and indirect jobs in this Province, Mr. Speaker. That cannot be taken -

AN HON. MEMBER: Lightly.

MR. O'BRIEN: - lightly was what I was going to say. Thank you, hon. member behind me. Anyway, it cannot be taken lightly, Mr. Speaker, because 2,500 jobs is a lot of jobs, and a lot of the jobs are in rural Newfoundland. We all hear and we debate and we all shout at each other in regard to our rural commitment. We have a commitment from this government to rural commitment, and one of them is in the salmon fishing and fly fishing industry, because that is exactly what it is, an industry.

Mr. Speaker, this resource has to be protected, and it is a federal responsibility. Thank God, as a salmon fisher, not as an MHA but as a salmon fisherperson, thank God that this Premier and this government showed the leadership to step into a federal responsibility and protect -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: - this industry, Mr. Speaker. That was done, I think, in the first weeks of the angling fishing season this year by the Premier because there was no directive from the federal side in regard to DFO. I might say that, when the Premier took that initiative, there were a number of people around the Province, a number of the editorials printed in support of that, hailed it as a great thing, because they recognized that it isn't a provincial responsibility, it is a federal responsibility; but it showed leadership in regard to protecting that resource regardless of what happens; but that cannot continue.

We all hear about the $8 billion surpluses on the federal side. Yes, they have priorities for that, and they have other responsibilities, but one of the responsibilities that they have for this Province is the protection of that resource which means a lot to a lot of people in rural Newfoundland.

Mr. Speaker, I quote - in supporting the provincial government's establishment of inland fisheries environment program - Larry Felt, who is the President of the Salmonid Council of Newfoundland and Labrador, in The Western Star of July 14, 2004. He says, "In a sad way, I'm delighted. It's sad that the province has to do these things, given its limited financial responsibility. But the feds are simply not doing their job."

That is what they are not doing. They are not doing their job. They are shirking their job, actually, and ignoring their job, because they have that responsibility of protecting those inland waters. In turn, I hear from the Indian Bay waters and the management people there who oversee the resource but don't have a whole lot of dollars to put into protection of that area, that we all have a problem in this Province now with overtrouting I look at this, Mr. Speaker, and I know that it is Newfoundlanders and Labradorians who are abusing and misusing this resource. I can't understand that, Mr. Speaker, because they actually affect our whole way of life in enjoying the outdoors in this Province. I can't understand why they do it. I guess, as I said on Open Line last night, we have to protect ourselves from ourselves, from abusing this resource.

I would also like to quote from the editorial of the Telegram that says, "So is Williams' initiative a good one? Yes. Yes, it is because despite plenty of provincial pressure, the federal government has shown absolutely no interest in protecting the salmon resource in this Province." This has been happening for a long time, and I am quite sure there are other fly fishers in this House, Mr. Speaker. I know there are a number of them. I know the Minister of Municipal Affairs takes great pride in his salmon fishing. I have a great, great concern about this, not only just from my district, because it employs a fair number of people and there are a fair number of people in my district who fly-fish every day. They get up every day and they go to the Gander River or they actually drive down to Ragged Harbour at times, and this is the Exploits, and they fish before they go to work. In the morning they go to work at nine o'clock and when they get off at five o'clock or six o'clock or whatever, they go out and have another couple of hours salmon fishing. That, in turn, puts a lot of dollars into the economy of my District of Gander, because they are buying things such as flies, salmon rods, lines and also things to eat while they are on the river. Everybody takes a rest when they are on the river, sits on a rock and has a meal, and that all generates dollars that normally wouldn't be generated.

I would like to quote one more quote, Mr. Speaker, in regard to the support that we generated, and the Premier generated, in regard to protecting this resource, which again, I will say, was not his responsibility. I commend him for doing that, especially when it affects my district so greatly. This is Joe Walsh, a columnist with the Telegram, July 17, 2004, "The premier should be commended for his better-late-than-never attempt to at least prevent Atlantic salmon from suffering the same fate as the northern cod stocks. And, Regan should be taken - that is the federal minister responsible - to task for his cavalier attitude." Mr. Speaker, I might say to that, an attitude of disregard, because that is exactly what it is. When you don't protect your resource, any resource in this Nation, any resource in Canada, any resource in this Province, it is an attitude of disregard. If you don't protect it, people will misuse it, people will abuse it. We have to have those officers on the river where they can get out there, be there and be seen. That will stem that tide and people will not be so apt to get out there and put nets after hours, et cetera, and abuse our resource.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier - I think it was in the 2004 angling season. I think it was in the first part of July, the Province implemented a one-time only - and I repeat that, one-time only, and I send that to the federal side - that it is a one-time only, that we did not assume responsibility for this resource. This is still a federal resource and this is a one-time thing. Hopefully, the federal government will stand up and come to the table and acknowledge their responsibility in this program.

We brought in and implemented that one-time Inland Fisheries Enforcement Program within the Department of Natural Resources. This program consisted of a team of twenty highly-trained conservation officers with a strong enforcement background. These people went out there and they took their jobs very, very seriously and they went out on the rivers. Some of them actually, as I understand, had never really enforced salmon fishing previous to this time. They got out there and we seen them. I seen them interviewed on CBC in regards to how seriously they took this responsibility that this government, the Premier, had put on their shoulders. They went out there and they had results, great results, I might add, Mr. Speaker.

The main goal of that initiative by the Premier, and by this government, was to implement an effective enforcement activity. In implementing that, not only was it there just to catch to people, it was to deter people. Just having it there and being out on that river, it deters people from doing these things. They do not know when an enforcement officer is going to come up behind them or come up through the trees or whatever. So, that level of anxiety is always there and that deters the person and persons.

I might add, I have seen, and we all have seen in the news, that it actually cracked a number of well-organized poaching operations in the Province. They went out there and they went undercover, and undercover for a number of days until they cracked that, and that will have a great affect on this resource and in deterring others in the future, Mr. Speaker.

Let's put it all in perceptive, Mr. Speaker, with regards to the federal responsibility. We are not talking about a great lot of dollars here. This initiative cost this government some $360,000 in total to implement. It actually, I think, resulted in 180 fisheries charges with 104 individuals being charged. There were 232 salmon, along with twenty-six nets confiscated, and eight boats, three cars, five trucks and two motorcycles. This had a great affect. When you see these kinds of things advertised, put in the paper, in the media wise and people are seeing this, who have an inclination of going out there poaching and whatnot, for whatever reason that they might go out there, well this will be a great deterrent when they see these things because people do not take it lightly when they lose their ATVs, cars and whatnot. It is not worth it. It is too bad we have to resort, I suppose, to this type of thing because people do this. I do not understand it as a fly fisherman myself. I welcomed it when they brought in the no-barb, the hook and release program because they practice that all throughout the world, especially in Scotland and that area.

Mr. Speaker, I am going to clue up and let other people - I am sure there are other fly fishing people in this House who would like to have a few words with regard to this resolution. I welcome that, but I call again on the federal government to live up to their responsibility. It is their responsibility, not a provincial responsibility. I thank the Premier, I thank the government and I thank the minister for this initiative this summer in the angling season on behalf of the citizens of Gander and on behalf of the citizens of this Province.

I thank you very much and I welcome the thoughts of my other colleagues.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I just want to spend a few minutes to speak on this private member's motion today from the Member for Gander. I can see that he is singing the praises of the Premier and the minister.

I guess there have to be questions asked. I guess one of the questions that I asked - when the Atlantic Accord was in the issue the Member for Gander was out saying how deplorable for anybody to break their word. I cannot see how the Member for Gander got deplorable in there about the Premier for breaking all of his commitments to the Province. Then he comes out with one initiative for the salmon fishery and all of a sudden everything is great. I say to the member, if he is looking for credibility, if he is going to say one thing on Open Line he should at least continue on when he presents a private motion bill.

Mr. Speaker, the initiative that was taken, when you look at it as a singular event, with the results that it had, you could say: yes, there were some great, positive steps taken. But, Mr. Speaker, what we are doing here is we are taking the responsibility of the federal government away from the federal government and putting it on the Province. The member mentioned the cost that this incurred to the Province this year. I am not sure if the Minister of Natural Resources would table what it costs. Also, the Member for Gander mentioned a deterrent by having the Conservation officers on the river, but if you read the press release that was sent out, this was a fifteen month undercover operation. So the effect itself was more undercover than being a deterrent having people on the river. This is the kind of responsibility that we have to look at when we take those steps.

The Member for Gander also mentioned that yes, these officers were not fully trained for this type of activity, for salmon poaching. Are we putting those conservation officers at risk? This is the kinds of things that we must ask ourselves before we step in and take the full responsibility off the federal government, who should be paying for the conservation officers and increase the protection of our salmon rivers. There is no question about that, but the question that we must ask: Are we putting the conservation officers at risk for this short-term gain?

I heard the Premier say in this particular matter, that we will try to embarrass the federal government into living up to its responsibility. Well, Mr. Speaker, I think there are other ways we should do this instead of putting the conservation officers at risk. As the Member for Gander said, there is absolutely no doubt the need to protect our salmon rivers. I am not a great salmon fisherman myself. I did fish the Humber River. I did fish down in Labrador. I did fish the Northern Peninsula and I do know how much this fishing is worth to the economy of Newfoundland and Labrador. It is a major tourism attraction to Newfoundland and Labrador and it is a major tourism attraction for people within Newfoundland and Labrador travelling around Newfoundland and Labrador. It is a great activity for all people in Newfoundland and Labrador to get out and it is a great activity for people who want to spend time in Newfoundland and Labrador during the summer and we must conserve the salmon stocks in our Province.

There are a number of questions that we must ask. I will revert to questions today in the House of Assembly. If the salmon rivers are a federal responsibility and we can jump in and put $360,000, $400,000 but yet the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture is saying today we cannot get involved with Harbour Breton with the quotas. So, when and where are we allowed to jump into the federal responsibility? When and Where?

The other question I have to ask - and I am sure I will never get the answer - is that these twenty conservation officers who were put in the summer were not new people hired for this particular job. They were taken from other particular services that we need; because, if we did not need them, we would not have them in the first place. They are taken from other different duties in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador and put under this fourteen or fifteen month undercover operation.

The question that I have to ask, because of this idea that you came up with, how many other resources that we need - if the Premier was going to do such a great, great initiative, we should have hired extra people, not take away people who are going to protect our salmon, protect our moose population, or protect our forestry, or environment, or other natural resources that we have in the area. We should have hired extra people. If that was the cost that we are going to incur, and the need is so great, we should have hired extra people, not take them away from one area to put in another area.

Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt, and I am sure everybody on this side and everybody in this House agrees, that the federal government should step up to the plate and they should definitely, definitely, put more money into the protection of the our salmon rivers in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. It is a great resource that we must keep. It is great for the economy, it is great for tourism, and it is great for all of the people who enjoy our outdoors in Newfoundland and Labrador.

I, too, call upon the federal government to hold up to its responsibilities, to stand up; this is your responsibility. I say to the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, although we may get some short-term gains out of what happened the summer, we have to be careful not to step in there and do this on a regular basis for the federal government, because pretty soon what will happen is that it will become the responsibility of the Province, and people will depend on it, and people will look forward to it, if we are not careful in holding the feet of the federal government to the fire, and saying: We want the funds; we need the funds. It is your federal responsibility. It is constitutionally your responsibility to put proper protection on our rivers.

Mr. Speaker, there is another thing, as Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, we must do. We must somehow educate ourselves that if we ruin the rivers in this Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, we are ruining our own economy. It is our own economy that is going to be hurting. It is the people of Newfoundland and Labrador who will suffer in the long run.

The motion itself, as presented, we support that the federal government uphold its responsibility. They should uphold their responsibility. Again, I am not sure of what it cost the provincial government this summer. I am not sure if the minister will table the cost.

AN HON. MEMBER: Three hundred and sixty thousand dollars.

MR. JOYCE: Three hundred and sixty thousand dollars? I have not seen it tabled. If it is, it would be appreciated.

Mr. Speaker, thank you for the time today to pass on the words. I feel that this is a resource that we must protect. It is a resource that the federal government must step up to the plate and keep up to its federal responsibility, constitutional responsibility I might add, Mr. Speaker, to protect the salmon rivers of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Lake Melville.

MR. HICKEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House today to support my colleague, the Member for Gander, on his private member's resolution, Mr. Speaker.

I want to say, when it comes to particularly the conservation of our wildlife resources, I will not be the last person in this House to stand on their feet and talk about this issue. I want to say, as we go through this and talk about this particular issue, Mr. Speaker, that we have some 186 licensed salmon rivers in Newfoundland and Labrador. Mr. Speaker, it is a $100 million industry to the Province. It provides 2,500 direct and indirect jobs to Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. It is something that we, as a government, and we as a Province, must protect, Mr. Speaker.

My colleague across the way says that this is a federal responsibility and that we are taking over the responsibility of the federal government. Everybody on this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, understands that; we know whose responsibility it is. We know that the federal government has not lived up to its responsibility as far as protecting our inland waters. Just through the undercover operations this past summer, we know the degree of poaching that is going on in this Province; but I want to talk about Labrador for second, Mr. Speaker. I want to talk about what is happening in Labrador with our wildlife and our fishery stocks.

I had the opportunity this past summer, Mr. Speaker, to travel to Southern Labrador. During that visit, I spoke to many people down there. I talked to fisheries guardians, particularly with the Metis Nation, who have funding to supply guardians to check rivers and to ensure the protection of our inland stocks, Mr. Speaker. While I was in Southern Labrador, I was told a story about how a poaching operation in Eastern Labrador was taking part, and that the wildlife officers there, and the protection people, could not get to the site where the netting was taking place because they did not have the access to a chopper. They knew it was there. It was identified by a helicopter pilot who had flown over. The nets were in the water. The nets were fishing and taking fish illegally. This has to stop.

We have some great salmon rivers in Labrador, particularly the Eagle River, which is a world-class salmon river, along with other rivers, Flowers River, Adlatok River. There are a number of rivers in Labrador that house salmon, but we in Labrador are also getting pressure from the Province of Quebec. We have Quebecers who have come into Labrador and taken fish, as well as caribou and other wildlife resources. Just this past winter, we had Quebecers from the Province of Quebec who came in and hunted the protected Red Wine caribou herd, a herd that is unique to Labrador, a herd that used to be up to 800 to 1,000 animals, and now I think we are down to just eighty animals in the Red Wine caribou herd in Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, this government has taken some leadership, and particularly I want to commend the Premier for saying: Look, this is a resource in our Province, in our homeland, and since the federal government is not living up to its responsibility, we, as a Province, are going to take it back. We had to put provincial resources into this summer in order to protect our rivers in this Province. This is absolutely scandalous, unacceptable, that the federal government would allow the poaching of salmon and other fish species in our Province to continue on an ongoing basis and not put the proper resources to the problem.

We are so very fortunate in this Province that we have some of the finest guardians and wildlife officers, and I know many of them in Labrador, who work long and hard beyond the call, beyond the call, Mr. Speaker, to try to ensure the protection of our wildlife resources, particularly in Labrador where we have a huge piece of property, some 295,000 square kilometres, to protect. Some of the finest wildlife habitat left in Canada is in Labrador. Some of the best wildlife resources reside in Labrador.

I take, for example, the George River caribou herd. I want to talk about the George River caribou herd, a herd that migrates between the Province of Quebec and the Province of Labrador. As we speak, Mr. Speaker, they are now moving into a very beautiful part of my district in Churchill Falls. The people of Churchill Falls right now are seeing numbers coming down. This happened for a number of years now, Mr. Speaker; yet, we see poaching operations going on. We know that caribou have been taken out of Labrador and sold on the black market, on the Quebec Lower North Shore. We know of airplanes that have come in from the Province of Quebec with freezers aboard them, filled them full of fish and brought them back to wherever they were going, or sold on the black market.

Mr. Speaker, this has to stop, and I think as far as our government is concerned we have taken the necessary steps this year to say that we are not going to put up with the plundering of our fish stocks in this Province and that we, as government, have taken the leadership role to do something about it, Mr. Speaker.

I want to commend the Minister of Natural Resources and the Premier for taking on this issue and to send a message loud and clear to those who want to poach our fishing and hunting resources, our animals and our fish in this Province, that we are not going to stand by and watch it go by idly.

Mr. Speaker, this past summer, during that operation - my colleague from Gander alluded to it earlier - we saw some 232 salmon caught illegally: twenty-six nets, eight boats, three cars, five trucks, two motorcycles and four ATVs. That was what was confiscated, and that sort of tells you the magnitude of the problem we are now facing in this Province.

We have seen our wildlife officers come back with reports that there is even more of this type of thing going on out there, but we have to be able to call upon the federal government here today - and I am sure every member in this House will call upon the federal government - to put the resources into wildlife and to live up to your responsibility to protect inland waters in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr. Speaker.

In Labrador, we have worked with the Aboriginal groups, particularly the Labrador Metis Nation and the Labrador Inuit Association, and they, too, have put guardians out into the field to patrol waters and to try to ensure that some of the pouching that takes place is not going to take place in the future. We must commend those groups, because this is responsible. The responsible thing to do, Mr. Speaker, is to ensure that we protect this, because it is not only for us today; it is for our children and our grandchildren that we must protect those stocks, and we must protect the heritage and culture of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, we are the custodians of our wildlife resources in this Province today. We have looked through our past. I remember, as a small boy growing up in Labrador, when my father used to tell me, when I lived in a small community of Twin Falls, he would like to have a trout for supper, and I could walk 300 feet down to the dock in the small Town of Twin Falls, cast out a rod, and bring in a four pound speckled trout, Mr. Speaker. We cannot do that in very many places in Labrador today.

We have to start talking not only about the protection of our resources, Mr. Speaker; we have to start talking about the revitalization, restocking programs. We do not do any restocking of our lakes and rivers in Labrador. I have not heard of one project in Labrador where we have stocked lakes and rivers. For anybody even in Happy Valley-Goose Bay, a town where I live, if we want to go fishing, take our son or daughter fishing, we have to fly in. We have to take an airplane and fly into the interior of Labrador on lakes, rivers and streams that for many years we could go out and basically cast a fly or cast a lure. We cannot do that any more.

I remember growing up as a young fellow in Churchill Falls and I remember working in a place called Orma lake, and I will never forget it. There was a campsite there. That was when they were building the mighty Churchill. I remember going on a dike called the GR2, which is one of the longest dikes in the Hydro project up in Churchill Falls, and go at the end of the dike and we could look at the number of trucks parked on the dike and people fishing. All we could see was the flick of water where they were taking - at the time Quebecers called them Quebec (inaudible), but they were Labrador fish. They were speckles. I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, we cannot do that on GR2 today. We cannot do that in a lot of brooks and streams in Labrador, so we have to take a two-pronged approach on this. We must talk about conservation, and we must ensure the protection of our wildlife and fish stocks. We also must look at ways and means to enhance some of the rivers and streams and to bring those populations back up. I will certainly be supporting whatever initiatives we, inside this government, want to put forward to protect the wildlife and the fish stocks in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, I believe this government has taken some great leadership with what we did this past summer. I think we showed the federal government what this means to us and what this means to the people and to the future of Newfoundland and Labrador, and that our government was prepared to put the money and the resources.

A heartfelt thank you should go out today to the enforcement officers and to the wildlife officers who were involved in these shenanigans that went on, the pouching operations over the summer. We owe a lot of credit to them. Sometimes these officers get involved with some very ticklish situations. I can tell you, in talking to many to them - many of them I know personally - there have been times in which their personal safety has been at risk. So we owe a lot to the enforcement people here in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. I want to make sure that every chance we get to give them the support that they need, that we, as a government, will do so.

Again, I just want to say I congratulate the Member for Gander, and my colleague, for putting this private resolution to the floor of the House of Assembly here this afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity for being able to speak on it, Mr. Speaker.

Thanks very much.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to say a few words on the resolution that is submitted by the Member for Gander, a resolution that I wholeheartedly support. I think it is long overdue for the federal government to take their responsibility seriously and have more enforcement on our rivers and lakes within this Province.

Mr. Speaker, there is obviously a need for enforcement. I do not think that there is anyone in this House of Assembly or in the Province today who does not know of poaching that has taken place and has destroyed stocks within their immediate area. There is definitely a lack of funding, not only on the human resource side for the number of people who are actually charged with the responsibility of enforcement, but there is also another problem. I just heard the Member for Lake Melville refer to the lack of access to a chopper to go into where a poaching operation was taking place. I know of occasions in this Province where the people who were charged with protecting our fisheries had to bum rides. They had to ask for a ride with private individuals from one end of a pond to another to get to where a river flows out. They did not have the equipment themselves to use in order to do their job. They do not have the tools that they need in order to do their job properly.

Mr. Speaker, there is another need for extra wardens in this Province. When we look at the assaults that have taken place on enforcement officers in this Province over the years. Enforcement officers who, at times, I would suggest, probably risk their lives to some degree or at least put themselves in imminent danger in trying to do their job, because let's face it, a person is not going to take lightly if he gets caught poaching and stands to lose a new vehicle and probably a boat and motor and other things that cost a lot of money to go with it. They are not going to take too kindly, and sometimes people may do things that they would not ordinarily do if they were faced with the prospect of losing large amounts of money as a result of being caught poaching. I think that the guardian system and the officers who are charged with providing the resource of protecting our resources need to be supplemented. They need to be operating in tandem with each other because let's face it, Mr. Speaker, these people are not on your city streets, and I know that is bad enough, but these people at many times find themselves in the middle of open country or in the middle of remote areas of the Province. I would suspect that it is not a great feeling to be by yourself with the prospect of facing two or three poachers when you are probably alone in the wilderness or some remote area of the Province.

Mr. Speaker, poachers are indeed doing a lot of damage to this Province and to our fishery. I will tell you, there are many times when cabin owners in close proximity to these rivers, streams and lakes know that there is poaching going on but they are, at times, afraid to report that poaching for fear of retaliation, by way of having their cabins burned, having their boats demolished and things of that nature. We need the enforcement officers on the ground, Mr. Speaker. We need them out there. The numbers that we have today certainly do not warrant the type of protection that our salmon rivers, our inland fisheries and other things need.

Mr. Speaker, I will say to the government, do not even go near the prospect of trying to privatize our rivers, lakes and salmon pools under the guise of providing protection. That has been tried before in this Province. That flag was raised once before and it was not long coming down. I say to the government, that is not the answer and the people of this Province will not tolerate a system that would privatize our rivers and our pools under the name of conservation. That is something that is totally unacceptable to this Province, and this government would do wise to stay clear of that.

Mr. Speaker, I know that through Labrador, for example - and the Member for Lake Melville talked about the fishery in Labrador and the hunting. I say to the member that the hunting and wildlife comes under the Province's jurisdiction, so they have total control over that. In Labrador, Mr. Speaker, I would suspect that the number of officers who are charged with enforcement of inland rivers, streams and lakes probably have a total area of 5,000 square kilometres per warden. It is not possible for the number of fishery officers and wardens in Labrador to do the job that should be done.

When the highway came through from Quebec into Labrador West we were faced, for a few years, with some very serious problems. We had people entering the Province, they did not have any guides, they drove in in their trucks, they had their boats and motors, they had their deep freezers in the back of their trucks and they had their generators. When they left, Mr. Speaker, their deep freezers were frozen. That was happening repeatedly and nothing was ever done about it because the number of officers who were in the area, it was impossible for them to be able to keep on top of that and see that justice was carried out. It was a serious problem, Mr. Speaker. What anybody would do with that number of fish, besides sell them, is beyond me. I suspect that there was, in a way, a limited commercial fishery taking place there.

It is, Mr. Speaker, a very serious issue, one that needs more resources, one that deserves protection for the future, because even though this resource is worth a lot of money in terms of dollars from tourists, it also plays a very important part in the lives of our residents. Many of us have grown up fishing and many of us love to go away for a weekend and catch a few fish to eat while we are camping. I can say, with no uncertainty, that the Member for Lake Melville is quite correct in saying that places in Labrador where a few short years ago we could catch fish abundantly, today we no longer can do that. It is to the point, Mr. Speaker, where you have to go a long distance, or even, as the member said, take a plane and fly in somewhere, to be guaranteed that you will catch a fish or to get anything of any size, if you want to take your children on a really good fishing trip.

Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of areas for concern, and I will say to the people in other parts of Labrador, particularly when the road goes through from Goose Bay to Cartwright, and for the new road that is there now from Cartwright down to Red Bay, that they should be very vigilant in protecting their waters, because the same thing that happened in Labrador West quite possibly can happen in their area. They should be on the alert for that and make sure that activities of this nature are reported as soon as they are found out to be taking place.

Mr. Speaker, I think there is also a need for a new five-year or a multi-year plan for fisheries, when it comes to stocking our rivers, when it comes to stocking our lakes, with new resources of fish. That plan, Mr. Speaker, a five-year plan of that nature, is being worked on, I understand. It has not been released yet to my knowledge. It is something that is desperately needed, because without a plan to make sure that our fish stocks are preserved, Mr. Speaker, they may very well be extinguished long before we know it.

Again, Mr. Speaker, I completely support the resolution that is put forward by the Member for Gander, and I acknowledge a lot of the problems that he speaks to in his resolution are taking place in our Province today and it is time that the federal government took their responsibilities seriously and gave the people of this Province and the resource the protection that they are required to.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: Thank you. Thank you very much.

MR. TAYLOR: The great salmon fisherman.

MR. FRENCH: First of all, Mr. Speaker, yes, as my colleague says down there, the great salmon fisherman had to get up. I have been salmon fishing now, I guess, for a couple of years and in the last two years I have had the opportunity to go to Eagle River in Labrador and I certainly enjoyed it. I guess, while I was there at Eagle River, I got to meet a lot of people down there, Mr. Speaker. I say to the Member for Twillingate & Fogo, it was his good friend, actually, who showed me a couple of good pools down there, and we had a great conversation down there. I realize the importance of it, not only to local residents, but also to non-residents.

I had the opportunity one day, while down there, to talk to a group of young people working on a lodge down there. It was really good to see the employment levels from Cartwright and surrounding areas that evolve around the salmon fishery. The non-residents will tell you down there - there was a Spanish crew shooting a film there actually at the time - the non-residents will certainly tell you that it is as good salmon fishing as anywhere in the world.

It is certainly a resource that we should be protecting wholeheartedly, not only from an employment standpoint but from a tourism standpoint as well. I guess down there, on any given day, you will notice dozens of non-residents fishing on the river, and they pay good money to do so. It is very incumbent upon the federal government to look after this resource.

This motion is not very complicated. Basically, it calls on the Government of Canada, who has the responsibility to enforce inland waters, to do just that and to protect, Mr. Speaker, the dwindling the Atlantic salmon resource. Certainly, the responsibility of enforcement and conservation rests solely with them.

Mr. Speaker, this past summer the success of the Province's Fisheries Enforcement Program tells the tale that more enforcement resources are desperately needed.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members in this House - and so far it seems that we have unanimous support across parties - to call on this House of Assembly, to call on the Government of Canada, to live up to its responsibility and implement an effective inland fisheries program.

Mr. Speaker, I cannot talk about the inland fisheries program this summer without throwing congratulations certain ways, and a number of these people I have spoken to personally throughout the year. I think the chief of investigations is to be congratulated, the regional compliance managers, and, in particular, the twenty conservation officers, who made many, many personal sacrifices with family. Many of these people have young children and so on.

A good friend of mine actually is a conservation office, who worked on this program this summer. I just recently had a conversation with him when I ran into him. He was telling me, he would be coming in, in the morning, at seven or seven-thirty after being out on the river all night long, would pass his wife in the door with his children, and he would sleep until twelve or one o'clock and then go back to work again. The personal sacrifices that this guys make to preserve our resources is phenomenal. The thing that strikes me most about it is, the majority of the ones I have spoken to, every single one of them, are willing to come back and do this again next year, if it means saving the resource.

Mr. Speaker, this program, this year, started reasonably late, actually. It was a little bit late getting off the ground. I think it lasted about twelve weeks, but they would have liked to have it started probably about five weeks before it did. In all of that, Mr. Speaker, they immediately went out and started intelligence gathering and began work quickly. I guess their main concern, of course, were the most serious offenders, the big groups, the large numbers, the people making the big hauls illegally. This is effective basically because of the professionalism that these conservation officers carried with them.

Mr. Speaker, another interesting point to know about these conservation officers - we certainly do not give them the credit they deserve. Many of these did not receive any additional remuneration for what they did. There were thousands and thousands of hours of overtime worked and, Mr. Speaker, many of these- of course, this is nothing new for conservation officers; delayed vacations. If you talked to many of these conservation officers who are involved in a great deal of work that they do, you will find that many of them have a lot of vacation days on the books simply because they never get the time to take them. I guess a major factor in their success this year was the team approach. They are certainly evident. If you talk to anybody involved, wherever they needed resources they could move men rather quickly and do that.

Also, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Natural Resources became very involved and the Premier, himself, became very, very involved in this process. I can speak to that because I have had numerous conversations with the Premier about this issue. This is a very, very important issue for the Premier of this Province. He sees it as another natural resource being depleted and he is certainly not going to let that happen. I guess nothing was more evident than on July 13th of this year when he sent out a press release just to that very fact, basically calling on the federal government who were not carrying out their duties and announcing the Fisheries Enforcement Program that we saw this past year with these twenty officers.

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting to note that there are 186 licensed salmon rivers in Newfoundland and Labrador and 69 per cent of the salmon caught in Canada is caught in Newfoundland and Labrador, the Atlantic Salmon. That is certainly something that we should take note of. I guess the scary part of these numbers is that right now apparently the stocks are only 30 per cent of what they were in the 1980s. That is good enough reason, certainly, to become involved in this issue.

Mr. Speaker, one has to only look to The Telegram, a writer by the name of Joe Walsh who has written many, many articles about fishing and hunting and so on in The Telegram. He says, "The Premier should be commended for his better-late-than-never attempt to at least prevent Atlantic Salmon from suffering the same faith as the northern cod stocks." He goes on to say that, Ottawa is investing more than $3 million in salmon conservation in the Province this year, including almost $2.5 million for inland enforcement. However, what he points out, and this is very key here, Mr. Speaker, what he did not say is that the enforcement officers - he was referring to Mr. Regan here when he was talking about this - have been stretched very thin and, in the case of seasonal officers, many of them have their hours reduced. Here is the National Department of Fisheries who are reducing the resources, and, obviously, the stocks are feeling the pinch, Mr. Speaker.

Before I go on any further, I should point out that we cannot blame it on the staff at DFO. These guys worked countless hours as did our provincial people this year. The men and women, they worked many, many hours. The river guardians, who worked many, many hours, are trying their best, Mr. Speaker. I honestly do not believe that the federal government is taking this seriously enough to provide the resources that they need.

Mr. Speaker, just to highlight a few more articles. Another article in The Western Star on Wednesday, July 14: The feds abdicating salmon responsibility, says Premier. If the federal government is abdicating a responsibility they have - and when I say abdicating, I mean they are doing some of it but they are not doing enough and, certainly, we have to pick up the ball. He goes on to say, there is another resources in this Province that they are going to mismanage and destroy, and we are not going to let it happen, Mr. Speaker. I am certainly proud of the way that our government has reacted to this initiative.

I guess nobody put it better and described it better than Bill Taylor, the President of the Atlantic Salmon Federation out of Moncton, New Brunswick. Although we did this provincially, it was certainly recognized throughout Atlantic Canada. The article's title: The Premier's actions may encourage federal funding. He goes on to talk about writing a letter to the Premier congratulating him on his stand and he says this, that: The federal leadership and one-time funding of $50 million would stimulate partnership with the provinces and communities to restore its extraordinary species that has graced our rivers for thousands of years although its numbers have decreased over time. Mr. Speaker, it is not only in Newfoundland that we are calling for this, but they are calling for it, certainly, all over Atlantic Canada.

We have another one here: Salmon Association praises Premier's actions. Province deserves credit for plan to assist salmon protection. DFO has to do more to conserve Atlantic salmon; the Atlantic Salmon Federation again. More DFO enforcement needed on inland waters. Mr. Speaker, these are the type of headings that showed up and are, certainly, recognized by everyone in this Province now as being an integral part of saving our resource.

Mr. Speaker, currently the work continues with DFO and our conservation officers. There is currently a Memorandum of Understanding in place where they have both agreed to continue to work together diligently to conserve that stock. That Memorandum of Understanding is with, like I said, Natural Resources, and we have to give the minister credit here too. He has done his share in keeping his finger on the pulse of his department and keeping it alive and well.

Mr. Speaker, both parties have agreed to continue to meet and to certainly make this a success. I guess the problem occurs in this because right now the poachers simply have no fear any more. At one time there was some fear, but now, because of the lack of staffing from DFO, poachers simply have no fear at all. Basically, it has come out of our operation this past year that they have been selling dozens at a time, dozens of salmon. They have been going to businesses claiming they are farmed salmon. Of course, most people do not realize the fact and purchase them. These are not small organizations any more. These are huge organizations with - I think one arrest netted nine people at one time, another group was thirteen, with numerous vehicles, boats, motors and so on involved. Basically, it has been mass netting. Anybody who wanted to go out and put a net out had very little fear of ever being caught.

I guess we have to realize that this is our resource, and this year, because of public awareness, I believe that a lot of the general public out there have taken it upon themselves to keep an eye on our resource as they would anything other. I guess the communities have begun to work together, and they recognize that this is a significant resource. The days of not protecting this, Mr. Speaker, are over. Those days are gone, and certainly this is going to keep going. We will see from that.

The information, Mr. Speaker, that the Salmonid Council of Newfoundland and Labrador recently put out, or put out some time ago, said that the estimated value of the recreational fishery in this Province is somewhere between $60 million and $100 million.

There was a study done numerous years ago - I guess it was back in the early 1990s; I believe it was 1991 - by a group (inaudible) and they said at that time there were approximately 15,000 salmon fishermen in Newfoundland and Labrador; that is residents in this Province who take part in the salmon fishing industry, the recreation industry, and there were 1,500 non-residents who took time. At that time - and, like I said, that was back in the early 1990s - there was $18 million in direct dollars, $25 million indirect dollars, and 2,340 full-time and part-time jobs affected by this industry. You convert that into current numbers - and I have seen some estimates by the Salmonid Council of Newfoundland and Labrador, and some numbers from the Atlantic Salmon Federation - and they will tell you that 3,400 seasonal jobs currently exist in that, and somewhere between $80 million and $100 million.

Mr. Speaker, when we are talking about a resource worth $80 million or $100 million to the people of this Province, the $360,000 - I can assure the member opposite, that is reality - that is an approximate of what this program cost us this summer.

Mr. Speaker, to point out the success of our program and to show the federal government that the need is certainly there, this year there were charges laid by our conservation officers, of forty-six illegal sale of salmon, forty-six illegal possession of untagged salmon, and twenty-four charges of illegal netting. Large groups were the responsibility of this, and many of them were caught. There were 180 fisheries related violations, 105 other resource violations, and DFO charged 182 people at that very same time.

Mr. Speaker, this is successful for several reasons, I guess. Three comes to mind. I will close up very shortly, but three very, very important reasons come to mind as why this was such a success this year. Number one, we had the conservation officers who are a very, very experienced crew. They knew what they were doing, and had the ability to do it. Two, we had the support of the Premier, first and foremost, who took this initiative on himself and directed it; the Minister of Natural Resources, who was very informed on this issue and played it right through to the bitter end; the CEO, and certainly the public. I guess it is the public who we should congratulate for their help in this issue the summer. Most importantly, I have to say, it was the conservation officers who took the time to make a difference. Like I went into earlier, these were gentlemen who postponed holidays - a very experienced group of individuals. I certainly take my hat off to them. The sacrifices that these guys make, we certainly don't appreciate what they do, and what they do is a very significant thing.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to just go on to say that is a little bit of discussion on the program that we established this summer, the successes it has had. Sure there are wrinkles, as there are in every system in its initial stages, but I certainly hope that the federal government now takes the bull by the horn. I think they should be embarrassed by the fact that there is this much happening with the salmon stocks in this Province and they are not playing the game.

Like I said, I certainly do not hold the people who work at DFO responsible, but certainly they deserve the resource managers and the finances to protect this resource. The people of this Province are sick and tired of our natural resources being depleted and given away. Basically, we are not going to stand for it any more.

I want to congratulate our government, as a whole, for taking this initiative, and certainly encourage the federal government to get on track and get their act together on this resource.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to take this opportunity to respond to the Member for Gander who has moved a private motion on the conservation of salmon in our Province, and the federal government's responsibility to live up to their commitment to enforce the conservation of salmon in Newfoundland and Labrador.

This is a topic that I am very passionate about. I represent the District of Grand Falls-Buchans, and, of course, it is my privilege to look upon the Exploits River, and many people do, as being one of the best salmon rivers in North America. It is the second largest producer of salmon in Atlantic Canada, next to the Miramichi. It is vast in size. The Exploits River takes up some 12,000 kilometres, right from the Bond Bridge right up to the King George V Lake off the Burgeo Road.

We have been fortunate in Central Newfoundland in developing a tourism industry around salmon. If you drive in both the east and the west of Grand Falls-Windsor you will see a salmon on our sign welcoming visitors to Grand Falls-Windsor, the home of the Exploits Valley Salmon Festival. It has been a success in Grand Falls-Windsor for twenty years.

I want to talk about how our natural resource, our salmon, is probably going to go the way of our cod. A lot of it, most of it, is because of the federal government reneging on its responsibilities. When the federal government decided to contract out its enforcement on our rivers in our Province it was a huge mistake and it should never have happened. What we are seeing now is the federal government wanting to get the work that they should be doing done for the cheapest price possible. When you turn that over to private enterprise and private enterprise has to make a profit from that, what kind of people are you going to put on the rivers who are going to look after our salmon and make sure it is there? Naturally, they are going to try to pay the least amount of dollars that they have to, and most of those individuals do not have any long-term benefits. They also do not have the resources that they need to carry out a good job of protecting our rivers. When this job was done by river guardians who were employed by DFO, that was their permanent, seasonal job. Every summer that was their job and they knew they had the benefits of working full time seasonally with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

I remember when it was not unusual to have at least ten guardians on the Exploits River at any one time. I am hearing recently that there are only two, for most of the time, looking after enforcement on the Exploits River. Now, can you imagine, two individuals who are not properly equipped by way of resources? When DFO was carrying out these procedures they always had a fisheries officer on hand who would supervise river guardians. They would be with them all the time during violations, right to the courthouse steps and inside the courthouse. Now we are depending on a couple of river guardians, who are employed by private enterprise, to do the work and look after our valuable resource.

When you think about it, we have, in Central Newfoundland and all over this Province - as many other speakers have just talked about - 186 licenced rivers in our Province and the potential what that would create in the way of business for rural Newfoundland and Labrador. This government has said that they have a plan for rural Newfoundland and Labrador. I have not seen it yet. Most people have not. As of recently, all I have seen is a newspaper ad in the paper looking for someone to develop an innovation strategy for rural Newfoundland and Labrador. It is no further than looking after the salmon in our rivers, if that was looked at as being very important and the proper resources attached to it.

I commend the provincial government for taking a step this summer to put our wildlife officers on the river. That is a good first step but are they really letting the federal government off the hook in doing this? It is the federal government's responsibility and they are not living up to it.

The next step the Province might have to look at, are they going to enforce the Nose and Tail of the Grand Banks? That is the federal government's responsibility. What are we going to do next that is going to be the taking on of a federal responsibility? Of course, with that comes great cost. We cannot afford that as a Province and we have to be reimbursed.

I already heard one speaker say that it cost $360,000 this summer to put twenty conservation officers on the rivers so they could be multi-tasking, forestry and on the rivers at the same time. What was neglected while they were on the rivers? They did not hire additional people. They paid out a lot of money in overtime and it was money, I guess, that this Province could ill-afford to spend. The more we take on as a provincial government the less that the federal government are going to live up to. At any rate, we are creating an awareness that we are concerned about our inland waters. In doing so, we are providing enforcement, something that the federal government has not done. It looks pretty ridiculous when you see a federal surplus, like the one that is being talked about all this fall by the federal government. Here, we, as a so-called have not Province, are having to spend dollars that we cannot afford and putting them into enforcement.

This summer, of course, the gem in the crown in Central Newfoundland is our Salmonoid Centre; for any of you who have had the opportunity to visit our fishway in Grand Falls-Windsor. It has been in operation roughly twenty years. The person who deserves a lot of credit, of course, is Mr. Fred Parsons, who is the general manager. He was working there when it was basically an idea. Now, it has grown into quite a concern. Between that and Sanger Park they hire about fifty individuals on a seasonal basis to look after the fishway and the park itself.

Last year there were 30,000 salmon that went through the fishway in Grand Falls-Windsor. That is quite a good return. The year before it was 28,000 fish that went through. Can you imagine the potential on the rivers? Other speakers have alluded to what is brought into this Province in the way of new tourism dollars. For the most part, anyone who salmon fishes takes salmon fishing quite serious. They have the best of gear. They spend money in recreation and whatever it takes to make a good experience in salmon fishing. They spend money to that effect. Look at the international potential. People from all over the world want to come to Newfoundland and Labrador because of the resource we have here, salmon. You know, we have to protect it and promote it. We are not getting the returns from our natural resource, even salmon, as we should be getting because as many people were saying, we have a lot of people in this Province who realize that enforcement is not there as it should be and as a result, we see massive amounts of poaching going on.

Now, anyone knows if you have 12,000 kilometres of river and you have two river guardians on that river, they know full well that it is pretty easy to poach a salmon on the Exploits River. We want to deter people from doing that because if that becomes a free-for-all through our neglect, and the federal government's neglect, we are not going to have a resource left in this Province. We are not going to have a resource left in this Province. I do not know how the federal government is getting away with the fact that they are not providing enforcement on our inland waters in this Province. I think it is close now to eight or ten years since they divulged that responsibility to private contractors. That tender is put out every year and naturally the one who decides that they are going to do the job for the lowest amount of money, they are the ones who are going to get the contract; which results in just a scattered attack on keeping our rivers in check. If you do not have the people to do the job, the job is not going to be done. We have seen that already.

The Province has set a precedent this summer of providing extra enforcement on our inland waters. People will expect the Province to do the same thing next summer and I do not know how the Province can say: No, we are not going to do it. I know they spent $360,000 doing that. This Province cannot take their wildlife officers from their initial job, which is to protect our forest and our woods roads. What other violations were occurring in the forest this summer? Who was cutting wood illegally? Who was trapping animals? Who was killing moose? What other kinds of poaching and violations were being done in our woods this summer while our wildlife officers were on the river?

You know, you cannot serve two masters. You cannot look after your job in wildlife and then be on the rivers besides. There were no additional people hired. So I would say, Madam Speaker, the Province has to assess now what they have done this summer, the cost involved, the gains they made in deterring poaching on our rivers, and whether or not they will be able to provide that same service this coming summer or whether they will be able to expand it; and, what clout will they have with our federal government in getting reimbursed for that cost? Maybe they are considering taking it on, as a Province, if the federal government will pay that bill. That is an issue that needs to be explored. We have a lot at stake here, there is no question about it. We have a lot at stake. We cannot lose that natural resource.

People in rural Newfoundland, in particular, are very sensitive to the outdoor way of life. I know, from living in Grand Falls-Windsor, recreation is key to life in Central Newfoundland and Labrador.

I heard the Member for Lake Melville say, when he grew up, how he fished on the Churchill River. I have a son who came back to Grand Falls-Windsor to live. The number one priority, I expect, was family, but the number two priority was the fact that he could go down on the Exploits River in the morning before he went to work, to salmon fish. He is ultra-passionate about salmon fishing. There are many more like him, who feel the same about salmon fishing in our Province.

What are we going to do about this situation? The federal government says they are out of the business. Now, we are going to create an awareness. We are in a position right now where you have a minority government in Ottawa, and it looks like there is going to be success on the Atlantic Accord. Timing is everything. We are due for this to happen and, of course, having a minority government there makes it happen sooner.

This may be another plank in the relationship that our Premier has established with the Prime Minister, that he can impress upon the Prime Minister the fact that we do not want our inland resources to go the way of our cod fish. We have had a $25 million investment in our Salmonid Centre in Grand Falls-Windsor.

MADAM SPEAKER (Osborne): Order, please!

I remind the hon. member that her time has expired.

MS THISTLE: If I could just have thirty seconds?

MADAM SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MADAM SPEAKER: Yes, by leave.

MS THISTLE: Thank you.

It has been a privilege to speak to this very important issue, and I would suggest and ask that -

MR. E. BYRNE: Do you support the motion?

MS THISTLE: Excuse me, I am collecting my thoughts. You will find that out in due course. I said it was my privilege - why does the Government House Leader always interrupt me every time I stand on my feet and debate in this House? I was being pretty civil, pretty sincere, and you interrupt me every time. I am not going to let up interrupt me this time.

What I was saying is important. We have a natural resource that we cannot let slip by. We must impress upon the federal government that their contracting out is not working. We have to control and enforce the most valuable resource of all in our Province, our inland waters.

Thank you.

MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

I certainly did not mean to interrupt the hon. member. I do what all members do, including herself, by the way, on many occasions, particularly during Question Period and others. I just asked. is she supporting the resolution or not? A simple question, straightforward, forthright, because in the twenty minutes that I was listening to her I did not hear whether she was supporting the resolution or not. I guess we will have to wait when we vote upon it.

Here are some unmistakable facts that we need to get our minds around. I just listened to the hon. member. She was here, she was there, she was over there, she was everywhere with respect to this issue. The fact of the matter is this: Do we, as a Province, on the one hand acknowledge that the enforcement of inland fisheries is the responsibility of the federal government?

AN HON. MEMBER: Yes.

MR. E. BYRNE: Yes, we acknowledge that. Secondly, absolute fact, the former government acknowledged it as well.

Now, do we also acknowledge that the federal fisheries, DFO, through the federal government, through consistent budgetary cutbacks over the last decade, have reduced their budgets and their enforcement activities to protect the 180-odd rivers that are in this Province that have salmon in them? Do we acknowledge? Yes, we do, that they have.

Do we acknowledge, as members in this Legislature, that for the past ten years poaching has increased at such a severe level because of why? Because DFO have reduced their enforcement activities. For that ten-year period anybody who wanted to poach in this Province knew that the former provincial government were not going to take action because they did absolutely nothing about the protection of salmon rivers.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: It is as simple as that. Year over year consistently, from 1989 right up until this summer, the only action that was taken, the only action that really went after the serious poaching in salmon rivers in this Province, in Newfoundland and Labrador, was not taken by the former Administration, was not taken by the current federal government; it was taken by the current Premier and the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador of today, I say to members opposite.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: This motion is serious. It requests and asks all members in this House to deal with it seriously.

Let me speak to, not wildlife officers; they are called conservation officers. Let me speak to the excellent job the staff, conservation officers, did in this Department of Natural Resources for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador this summer.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: I want to say, so members know this - now they can accept it as fact or not, that is entirely up to themselves - conservation officers who were involved in this program were more than eager. They were chewing at the bit, and they were waiting for a long time to be let take the reins off their collective bits to do something about the poaching in our rivers. They knew it was happening. They know where it is happening, and we gave them the opportunity, because it is such an important public policy issue, and in two months - I believe the charges were 186 charges in two months; 104 individuals, 180 fisheries charges, 104 individuals being charged all over the Province. You compare that to what occurred with DFO for the entire year and it is almost equal.

The fact of the matter is this, Madam Speaker: Close to 70 per cent of all salmon caught in Atlantic Canada are caught in Newfoundland and Labrador rivers, 70 per cent. The resource is down to about 30 per cent of what it used to be when DFO started pulling out of enforcement and protection mechanisms. This is a huge resource from a number of perspectives. It helps drive our economy. If we protect it and ensure that it is there today, next year, the year after, through enforcement measures, if we put undercover operations in place, dedicated to catch those who would willfully poach the resource, and people do not know whenever they will show up, it has an impact and that is the result of it. This move, which was driven by Premier Williams this summer, in terms of wanting to get it done, has demonstrated clearly -

MR. COLLINS: Who do the river guardians work for?

MR. E. BYRNE: DFO.

MR. COLLINS: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: DFO.

No, sorry, they are contracted out independently. The member has asked a question.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: Exactly.

The Member for Labrador West asked me two questions. Who is responsible for it? DFO. Who do the river guardians work for? It is all contracted out. They are not taking the issue seriously. This is a wild salmon fishery that is so important. It is important to our economy in terms of bringing people in, salmon anglers, whoever they may be. It is important for the future protection of the resource and that is why some action was taken.

Now, Madam Speaker, there is no doubt that the program was successful. There is no doubt that it had its intended affect, largely because of the dedication of the twenty officers who wanted to do what they were doing. Without their dedication and their initiative - many of them gave up their weekends, many of them gave up their nights, many of them gave up a lot of quality family time to do exactly what this program did, to bring the results and achieve the results that it did.

What we are asking this House to do today is very clear, and the Member for Gander needs to be commended for putting this private member's resolution on the floor of the House today. It is simply this: That this assembly and this Legislature, and every member in this place, speak with a single unanimous voice in asking the federal government to live up to their responsibilities. For the first time in about fifteen years we have a little more ammunition to shame them into it.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

I appreciate a moment to speak towards this resolution. In fact, there is no uncertainty here. This member stands in full force and support to speak in favour of the motion that has been put forward today by the MHA for Gander.

I would like to propose an amendment to the motion, as well, seconded by the Leader of the Opposition, the Member for Exploits. (Inaudible) Table to see if the amendment is in order.

AN HON. MEMBER: No, (inaudible).

MR. PARSONS: In that case it will be the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MADAM SPEAKER: The amendment has been ruled in order.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Consider this a friendly amendment in the sense that I agree wholeheartedly that the Province has done something that the federal government ought to have done this past summer. I feel so strongly about it that a federal government ought to pay for any costs that this government has incurred in doing that and that is the intent and the purpose of this motion -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: - so that the federal government does not take it for granted that this Province is going to step into the breach whenever they forego their obligations and responsibilities and expect this government to pick up the tab for it. Whatever costs have been incurred by this government to do the federal government task, the federal government ought to pay for and we are not at a time, I would submit, to do that. They should be sent a bill and that is the intent of this amendment.

MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Not to take away from the Opposition House Leader's time, I want to speak to the amendment quickly. In having a discussion with my colleague, the Member for Gander who brought forward the motion, we accept the spirit and the intent of the motion and we will be voting in favour of it, Madam Speaker. I just want to let the Opposition House Leader know that before he moves on and concludes with the rest of his remarks.

MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: Thank you. I appreciate the comments of the Government House Leader.

I happen to have had a personal interest in this type of issue. I was a prosecutor for eighteen years of federal fisheries regulations in this Province in Southwestern Newfoundland and, in fact, did the work all over this Province in terms of prosecutions. When I first starting prosecuting back in 1981, a fine for poaching a salmon or netting a river, actually, would bring you a fine somewhere in the range of about $300. It took about eighteen years of constant speeches and sacrifice and arguing and pleading with judges in this Province, eighteen years even though the law was there on the books, to get a fine for poaching, not poaching in the sense of the seventy-five year old who had a sixty-four centimetre salmon instead of a sixty-three centimetre one. I am not talking about those types of violations. I am talking about the guys who netted the rivers at night and had bathtubs full of them, actually had cases where they had bathtubs full of salmon taken out of our rivers. It took eighteen years to get the fines for poaching in Southwestern Newfoundland from $300 up to about $2,000. Plus, they would be ordered to stay off the rivers for years on end; plus, plus they would be prohibited from fishing - ever having a licence. Also, they lost their trikes, they lost their trailers, they lost the works, and so they deserved to. Even though the law were there, the courts were a long time coming around to the recognition that they had to enforce it and implement the fines that were there. They finally came around to doing that.

I would also like to comment here, the downside to what happened here by the provincial government - don't get me wrong; I am not speaking against the motion, I am speaking in favour of it - the concern I have here is that the Province is stepping in to do something that the federal government ought to have done, and it is in the constitution that they are responsible for doing. The fear with doing that is because the feds will forever download onto this Province, or municipalities, or the people of any jurisdiction, if they can get away with it. That is the fear I have, of having done this in the case of fisheries.

They are going to do the same thing, ladies and gentleman, in the case of their obligations under Term 32. There was a committee struck three or four days ago to review Marine Atlantic, for example. We are protected by Term 32, and I say to the people of this Province, people in the hotel industry and hospitality industry who think this is a great thing to have a review, it is indeed great to have a review, but not if it is going to mean the loss of Marine Atlantic to the Province.

I tell you right now, the federal government is looking for a way to get rid of their subsidization obligations under Term 32. Where is this Province when it comes to making sure we have a voice into what that review committee hears? Mr. Sid Hynes, Captain Sid Hynes, Mr. Jamison and the deputy minister of the federal Transport Department. We ought to make sure that we do not let them download it like they did on the fisheries without having some representation made at that committee, because I will tell you what; you will not have to worry about getting across the Gulf being too expensive, because there will not be any ferry to get across the Gulf. What do you do then, when they do not have one? Do you step in and provide a ferry service that they are required to do? I suggest that will not be done.

The bait depot service, there is a constitutional obligation in this Province. I have written to the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture a month ago. The federal government contracted out the bait depot service in this Province in 1995. Well, folks, five weeks ago they terminated the person who had the contract and shut down every single bait depot in this Province - twenty-three. What they did on an ad hoc basis is, they let it out for a month, for example, in the Southwestern area. They gave it to a private fish plant operator and said: You take it for a month because the boys have a couple of days fishing left on their quota, so you can operate the one the contractor had - but it does not answer the question.

I put it to the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture. I have not heard a word about it. We are out there talking about the fisheries and whatever, when it comes to enforcement, and I have not received a response from the minister. Where were we in keeping the federal government's feet to the fire in fulfilling their obligation when it comes to our bait depots? There were over 125 people employed in that. They are out of work, folks, because the federal government decided to offload it. That has already happened, five weeks ago. The Marine Atlantic thing is happening; kid not yourselves. You do not put $15 million into the Port Authority in Corner Brook and set up two days later - and that is the timing, folks, from Friday to the Monday when they had the press conference in here - that you announce a review of the Marine Atlantic obligations. Let's not kid ourselves about where we are going.

The only other thing I question here on this motion is - and I thank the Member for Gander for bringing it forward, because it shows that he is concerned about what is happening to this. This is of great economic benefit to our Province. I ask, in all seriousness, like I did about the Marine Atlantic thing, in making sure we keep them there, and the bait depot thing, what else have we done as a government, other than bring this resolution into this House today, to make sure that the feds do not do what they did last year in the enforcement area?

Has the Minister of Natural Resources had meetings with the federal Minister of Natural Resources to see that it does not happen? Do we have a commitment that we do not have to go back and do this again next year? Surely, this resolution is not the only thing that we have to stand on, to say we are not going to put up with that any more from the federal government.

You need only look - and the Member for Labrador West mentioned it. He is absolutely correct. There used to be fisheries officers and fishery guardians all employed by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. That stopped some years ago because the feds did not want the payroll burden. The feds did not want the responsibility of having these people. The feds did not want the cost, so they farmed them out. I believe a company here, private industry, did great. A company called Seawatch ended up with most of the guardians. All of these people who had full-time jobs year-round watching our rivers, all of a sudden, folks, they only work for about eight weeks, if that, of the year, and they work when the season is open.

AN HON. MEMBER: They cut back every summer (inaudible).

MR. PARSONS: They cut back the timing every summer. The other thing is, some people seem to think that poaching only takes place in the summer. I do believe the salmon swim - they are in the rivers for twelve months of the year, some of them. They go out and they come back, and whatever. The fellow who goes poaching, he does not just go poaching when the season opens. In fact, he is more likely to poach in the middle of February or March now because he knows there is no guardian on the river.

It is not good enough to say, clap ourselves on the back for what we did. Yes, it is great that the Premier did this and the minister supported him in doing this and our conservation officers did it. Great stuff! Somebody had to stand on the bridge, but this is not about taking credit or kudos for what was done. This is serious and important because it shows something that needs to be done by the federal government.

That is why I speak in favour of the resolution. I do not think it is enough of us to do as a government. We just cannot be satisfied to sit here and have private members' resolutions on a Wednesday on these serious issues and let it lapse. The Minister of Natural Resources, I would think, is going to keep us updated in the future as to what he does with this, where he goes, what meetings is he going to have and what pressure is he going to bring to bear on the federal government to make sure that this does not continue.

With that, Madam Speaker, I just want to say thank you very much. We certainly will be voting in favour of the amended motion.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Gander; who, if he speaks now, shall close the debate.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: Madam Speaker, I am just going to speak for a few minutes in regards to this resolution and yes, I do take this resolution very, very seriously but I would be remiss in not thanking the hon. Opposition House Leader for his amendment to the motion. I do not think he read it in, and I would like for it to be read into Hansard because it is a very good amendment. As a matter of fact, it puts onus on the federal government, in my opening remarks, with regards to the federal responsibility to this serious, serious problem within the Province.

It says:

THEREFORE BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this House of Assembly also supports the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador in seeking reimbursement from the Government of Canada for the cost of the additional enforcement effort of the past year.

I agree fully with that and I appreciate my hon. colleagues initiative in putting that forward. It is something that I never thought about. I do take it seriously and this government intends to hold the government's feet to the fire in regards to their responsibility on this problem in the Province.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to also thank the conservation officers, because I know a number of them myself personally living in Gander. I have seen a number of them, as I said earlier, on the CBC news in regards to what they have done and the initiative that they took and the seriousness that they took on in regards to this effort by the Premier and by this government.

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure, but one of my colleagues when they were speaking, I think, indicated that I had said we put the conservation officers at risk. There was no intention of putting them at risk. They take their jobs very, very seriously and they are also professionals in their jobs. They do it everyday. As my colleague said, the hon. House Leader, he said that these people went out of their way. They were biting at the bit to take this on for a number of years. They never had the monies to do it and now the Premier and this government and the minister took it so serious that they put the money there, $360,000 worth, to make this effort a reality, and it definitely worked. It sent a message across this Province to poachers: beware, we are here and we are going to take this resource very, very seriously.

I not only thank them for myself, I thank them for the 2,000 anglers who frequent the Gander River every year, and I thank them for all anglers. I must say, before I step down, there are resident and non-resident anglers on the Gander River. One of those anglers is the past President of the United States. He frequents the Gander River at various times. Various people from royalty have frequented the Gander River, and a good many people from out in the Hollywood and California area and Los Angles area all were frequent. There may also be people who come out from St. John's and actually frequent the Gander River, as my hon. colleague has indicated, and we appreciate the money that they pump into the economy of Gander.

Anyway, I appreciate all my colleagues remarks in regard to this and the favour. It is a very serious problem and it is considered to be serious and will remain to be serious by this government and by this Premier because just remember, he took the initiative to put the dollars there and to put the onus on this serious problem within the Province.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, I conclude now and I thank you and I thank my colleagues for their remarks.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Is the House now ready for the motion on the amendment?

All those in favour of the amendment, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, ‘nay'.

The amendment is carried.

On motion, amendment carried.

MR. SPEAKER: All those in favour of the resolution, as amended, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, ‘nay'.

The resolution, as amended, is carried.

On motion, resolution carried, as amended.

This being Wednesday, under Standing Order 9 the Speaker will now adjourn the House until tomorrow, Thursday, December 2 at 1:30 of the clock in the afternoon.