MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

This afternoon we have members' statements as follows: The hon. the Member for the District of Twillingate & Fogo; the hon. the Member for the District of St. John's Centre; the hon. the Member for the District of Grand Falls-Buchans; the hon. the Member for the District of Lake Melville; the hon. the Member for the District of Carbonear-Harbour Grace; and the hon. the Member for the District of St. John's North.

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for the District of Twillingate & Fogo.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to pay tribute to a friend and colleague of many of us who sit here in the House of Assembly, who died tragically on April 16 at Birchy Lake.

Mr. Speaker, those of us who had the honour and the pleasure to know Rick Woodford knew that he was not only a dedicated politician, but he was a gentleman in all respects. Rick will be remembered for his wonderful sense of humour and his warm and compassionate personality.

Rick was the Mayor of Cormack for ten years and served for five years as a Director of the Federation of Municipalities. He was elected as MHA for the District of Humber Valley in 1985 and served in that capacity for eighteen years. His contribution to his district and, indeed, the entire Province will never be forgotten.

Mr. Speaker, I ask that all members of the House join with me in expressing our sincere condolences to Rick's daughter, Tanya, and to his extended family.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I wonder if I may have leave to make a few comments and concur with the Leader of the Opposition about the tragic passing of an old colleague and, I venture to say, he is certainly a friend of mine and a friend of many people in this Legislature.

I remember a couple of weeks ago, the morning after it happened, I happened to be on the West Coast and dropped into Pasadena Irving, which is a business that Rick was partner in - from time to time when I was out there, drop in and say hello to him and see how he was doing - and I heard the news firsthand from another former Member for Humber West, Ray Baird and his business partner, and was shocked.

I can concur with the statements that the Leader made, there is no question, the contribution that Mr. Woodford made to public life, in particular, the people of Humber Valley. I know as a newly elected member in 1993, when I sat in caucus with him, he was the type of individual who played a role with newer members in showing them the ropes, so to speak. He became a friend of mine and a friend of many on this side of the House at that time and remained so until the day that he died.

We certainly do want to be associated with the remarks made by the Leader of the Opposition and as one colleague to, I guess a former colleague now, we wish to pass on our condolences, obviously in a very public way to his daughter, Tanya, and wish her all the best.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

By leave, I would certainly not want to miss this opportunity to say, in a public way, my heartfelt support for the comments of the Member for Twillingate & Fogo and the Government House Leader in remembering Rick Woodford.

Rick Woodford, I think is fair to say, was a friend to every member in this House, who shared the sitting in this House with him. I referred to him from time to time as my seat mate because he was sitting right here where the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair is and we had many talks over the years about public life and personal life. To say he was a friend to everyone who knew him, he was a very dedicated member of this House and a very special person to his constituents. I was very sorry to learn of his death and unfortunately was unable, along with you, Mr. Speaker, to attend the funeral because of airplane difficulties. I very much wanted to be there to ensure that his family and his constituents and friends knew the esteem in which he was held by, I believe, all colleagues in the House of Assembly.

I would certainly join with the Member for Twillingate & Fogo and the Government House Leader and I think all colleagues in offering our condolences to his family, and particularly, his daughter Tanya.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for St. John's Centre.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we have just finished recognizing Volunteer Week in Canada. April 23-29 was a full week of activities and events that highlighted the contribution volunteers make in our communities.

Mr. Speaker, there are volunteers in every community in Newfoundland and Labrador. A survey conducted by the Community Services Council in 2002-2003 showed that 53 per cent of individuals in our Province are volunteers! Volunteers make an enormous contribution to our communities, to the social and economic development of our Province, and to the quality of life of our residents.

I ask all members of this House to join me in thanking the moms and dads; the coaches; the Girl Guide leaders; the Meals on Wheels volunteers; the literacy volunteers; the people who shovel the walkways or deliver the groceries to help someone in need; the person who sits on a committee, a board or an agency of a community; the volunteer who answers the phone or completes an income tax return; who comforts the sick; who helps at the food bank; who reads to children; who walks the streets giving support to the homeless; who comforts the sick and the shut-ins. All of these volunteers, Mr. Speaker, make our community what it is today, and I think we should thank them.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to congratulate the Grand Falls-Windsor Heritage Society on winning the Historic Sites Association of Newfoundland and Labrador's Manning Award for the history book, Grand Falls-Windsor: The Place and its People, published as a legacy project for the 2005 Centennial Celebrations.

The Manning Award for Excellence in the Public Presentation of Historic Places was established in 1993 and recognizes the work being done across the Province by community-minded groups and organizations. The award honours the late Bill Manning, former Parks Canada Superintendent of Historic Sites for Newfoundland and Labrador, and, since its inception, has been presented to recipients from all across our Province.

The 500 page deluxe hardcover edition is divided into chapters detailing the historical high points of Grand Falls-Windsor's evolution from 1905, when the Harmsworth brothers chose Central Newfoundland as the location of their new paper mill, to the present time. The book also chronicles stories of the pioneer families of our town.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House to join with me in congratulating the Grand Falls-Windsor Heritage Society on winning the Historic Sites Association of Newfoundland and Labrador's Manning Award for the history book, Grand Falls-Windsor: The Place and its People.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Lake Melville.

MR. HICKEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to pay tribute to a great citizen of Happy Valley-Goose Bay, Mr. Steve Ramey, who was tragically killed in a motor vehicle accident on November 10, 2004.

Late last month, from March 24 to March 26, the first annual Steve Ramey Memorial Female Hockey Tournament was held in Happy Valley-Goose Bay.

Steve was a great supporter of female hockey, as his daughter, Rebecca, is a member of the Lake Melville Xtreme Minor Hockey Association. His youngest son, Blake, dropped the puck for the opening ceremonies with the help of his two older brothers, Josh and Brandon. The puck was dropped between Rebecca Ramey and Janeil Parrott. Steve's mother also travelled to the area from Nova Scotia for the inaugural tournament.

Mr. Speaker, Steve was a devoted father and avid ‘hockey dad.' He spent untold hours helping in fundraising efforts and promoting the female hockey league. He was instrumental in the girls winning two provincial gold medals and one bronze medal, as well as regional awards.

Steve was a great asset to the hockey community in Happy Valley-Goose Bay, and his presence has certainly been missed, but, as everyone who knew Steve can tell you, he had a very simple but profound take on life, and that was: "To live life to the fullest" and "Don't sweat the small stuff."

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House today to join me in paying tribute to Steve and the commitment he displayed for the growth of female hockey in Labrador.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to congratulate the Conception Bay North CeeBee Stars, the 2005-2006 Herder Memorial Senior Hockey Champions.

When the CeeBee Stars raised the Herder Memorial Trophy over their heads last Saturday night, a thirty-nine year burden was lifted off the shoulders of every hockey fan in Conception Bay North. The CeeBee Stars took the best of seven final - and the first Herder title for CBN since 1967 - in six games.

Mr. Speaker, this has been a great year for hockey in our region. With the provincial champion senior team, we also captured the region's Junior Stars Provincials and the Conception Bay North Female Provincials.

Another important factor to make this a truly local accomplishment is the fact that eleven of the Stars' twenty-four full-time players are from the Conception Bay North area, an unusually high percentage for the Newfoundland senior leagues. Having so many locals on the team builds not only team spirit, but community spirit as well. The drive to win was apparent from the beginning.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in congratulating the Conception Bay North CeeBee Stars, the 2005-2006 Herder Memorial Senior Hockey Champions.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDGLEY: Mr. Speaker, last night I was honoured to attend the Holocaust Memorial Service that was held at Prince of Wales Collegiate. Seven years ago, this House voted unanimously to establish and recognize Holocaust Memorial Day and I rise today, Mr. Speaker, to remind all members and, indeed, all people in our Province, how important it is for us to remember the Holocaust. It is important to remember that 6 million people, including 1.5 million children were put to death for one reason, because they were Jewish. It is important for us to remember that another 1.5 million people were killed because they were disabled in one form or another.

Mr. Speaker, the service last night recognized two people for their efforts to promote Holocaust education. Irving Fogwill was honoured posthumously for having promoted this issue through his poetry, and Mr. Brian Vardy, Vice-Principal at PWC, was recognized for having raised Holocaust awareness in his role as an educator.

As we in this House take time today to remember the atrocities of the Holocaust, we should renew our commitment to fight, not only anti-Semitism, but prejudice in all its forms.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, this week employees and employers across Canada, the United States and Mexico are participating in events in recognition of North American Occupational Safety and Health week, or NAOSH Week. This special week is set aside every year for promoting a greater awareness for the importance of preventing workplace accidents and occupational illnesses.

This year's theme is Review, Refresh and Revitalize. This is an excellent reminder for all of us to pay particular attention to the safety of our workplaces. Dedication to safety is an ongoing process to ensure that every employee goes home at the end of the day after they finish their work.

Mr. Speaker, that is why we all have a responsibility to review safety practices at our workplaces and determine whether those practices need to be refreshed or revitalized to meet the employee's and employer's needs.

I must commend the Canadian Society of Safety Engineers for their ongoing efforts to promote NAOSH week every year. We can be especially proud of the local chapter who were the ones to develop NAOSH Week and who continue to celebrate the need for workplace health and safety. The fact that they were the first to recognize the need for NAOSH Week and that it has now spread throughout the Province, Canada, the United States and Mexico shows the tremendous emphasis this Province has always placed on health and safety in our workplaces.

This morning, I was proud to once again join the local chapter to raise the NAOSH Week flag at Confederation Building. This flag raising ceremony shows this government's commitment to occupational health and safety.

While this week is dedicated to reviewing, refreshing and revitalizing so that we make our workplaces safer, Mr. Speaker, it is also important for us to remember that workplace safety should be a year-round commitment. We have an obligation to our family, our friends and ourselves, to continue efforts throughout the year to maintain healthy and safe workplaces.

Mr. Speaker, workplaces all over the Province are celebrating and recognizing NAOSH Week through many activities which promote safe work practices. I encourage everyone to do something in their workplace this week while recognizing the importance of workplace health and safety.

By working together, government, employers and employees can ensure that all our workplaces are safe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for an advanced copy of her statement. We, on this side of the House, join with the Canadian Society of Safety Engineers for their efforts in promoting the importance of a safe work environment.

Mr. Speaker, we can never underestimate the value and importance of a safe workplace. Dedication to safety is an ongoing process that must be forever monitored. My own family was touched by two members, my brother and brother-in-law, who never returned home after going to work.

Just his past Friday I participated in a Day of Mourning at the Carbonear Civic Centre, where, in particular, a young man, a family friend, twenty-five years of age, was killed a year ago in Alberta. These are the things that hit home and we can take a day or a morning and raise a flag, but still, this has to continue on throughout the year. I would recommend to the government, that the government would serve the people of this Province well if it initiated an occupational health and safety program in our high schools so that the young people of this Province, when they graduate from high school, would have the experience of having some prior knowledge of the dangers of a workplace.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's allotted time has expired.

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. R. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We, too, join NAOSH in hoping they have a successful week. On Friday past I, too, attended the Day of Mourning ceremonies held at the Union Centre in Labrador City. I want to say that safety and health has come a long way since the 1970s but it still has a long way to go.

Last year in this Province, twenty-five people died as a result of work injuries or industrial disease, and that number is very alarming and still far too high. Mr. Speaker, back in the 1970s we had a slogan in the industry called stop the slaughter in industry, because of the number of people getting killed in this country. I am proud to say that this Province, in 1979, became the first Province in Canada giving workers the right to refuse unsafe work. While that has happened, Mr. Speaker, there are still many other initiatives that have to be taken.

We have come a long way, Mr. Speaker, but there is much more to do, and it is not something that can be done today and fixed for tomorrow, it is an ongoing procedure. There have to be active programs in each and every workplace around this Province. Weeks such as this certainly go a long way to highlighting the concern and attention that Occupational Health and Safety deserves in our workplace.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Further Statements by Ministers.

Oral Questions.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Premier.

Mr. Speaker, over the past month we have heard the Minister of Fisheries when he went out and slammed FPI for breaking the law and stated publicly that they would be charged. We also heard him state that he was considering amending the FPI legislation to force FPI to cross-subsidize its failing groundfish operations. Last week, Mr. Speaker, he surprised us all when we saw a complete reversal of all of this. We now find that he is out considering giving Mr. John Risley and Mr. Bill Barry what they have wanted since day one, the division and the destruction of FPI as we know it.

I ask the Premier: When did you have your first discussions with Mr. Barry or FPI or both concerning this proposal?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I don't know what interview the House Leader heard - House Leader of the Opposition?

AN HON. MEMBER: Opposition House Leader.

PREMIER WILLIAMS: The Opposition House Leader, not the leader of the party, not Mr. Bennett, who they are trying to stab in the back.

He heard a different interview that actually what I said. What I said when I came back was that we were considering all the options for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: What we are trying to do is come up with the best possible solution to benefit the communities and to benefit the people in the Province. As a result, we have an open mind on absolutely everything that is being put forward. We are not closing the door on anything at all.

With regard to any implication or any suggestion of any collusion with Mr. Risley and/or Mr. Barry, there have been several meetings with Mr. Barry over the last year on the basis that Mr. Barry is still looking at Harbour Breton and is still seriously considering it. Hopefully Mr. Barry will come up with a solution for Harbour Breton, which the hon. member is certainly familiar with. He has indicated he is prepared to go in there and take over the plant and use the product from his aquaculture operations on the Connaigre Peninsula in order to staff up the plant and restore the dignity and the pride and the workforce in Harbour Breton, so that is the first step.

Now, if Mr. Barry is interested in looking at the assets, all the assets, of FPI, and there is a new operator in, well, that is fine. We understand as well now that there certainly is another party at the table who is in serious discussions with FPI, and we certainly would not shut the door on them under any circumstances whatsoever, so all options are open to the ultimate benefit of the people of this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I asked the Premier when he had discussions with FPI and Mr. Barry concerning this issue, because, just before the Easter break, in listening to the Minister of Fisheries and the Premier himself, they said they were not having discussions with FPI about anything; they were meeting with themselves in the Premier's office. Yet we see, in a news release from FPI, that they did indeed have discussions with the government. All I asked was why or when you had these discussions. Mr. Speaker, obviously the Premier does not want to answer questions about FPI; he would prefer to hide away and cut deals on the side.

Mr. Speaker, in order to accommodate Mr. Barry and Mr. Risley, the FPI Act will either have to be amended or abolished outright. I ask the Premier: If this proposal is accepted, the one that your minister trotted out last week, which route will this government take?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, what the hon. gentleman fails to understand is that there is no proposal being accepted; everything is being considered. All options are being considered.

The hon. gentleman was Minister of Fisheries and part of a government for years, and chaired an all-party committee. He seems to have all the answers now, but we inherited what they left us. You have to remember that the management of FPI changed under their watch. That is when it changed. The number of plants that were closed by that particular party when they were in government is a significant number of plants, and the problem, as we all know, there is a significant problem with the management of FPI. That is the problem, that is the root of the problem, so we are trying to work our way through a very, very complex and a very, very difficult situation; but, as to accommodating Mr. Barry or the brother of the Member for Grand Falls, or any of these people, these people are at the table. They are at the table; we are prepared to listen to them. If there are responsible business people in this Province then we are prepared to consider their offers.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

What I say to the Premier is, what you inherited from us was an FPI with all plants open. That is more than I can say you are going to leave your position with.

Mr. Speaker, if this proposal is accepted by government - the one that he is touting, he and his minister - it did not come from us. You are the one who came out last week and announced to the world that there was a proposal on the table. If this proposal is accepted by government, I ask the Premier: Which part of what we know as FPI today will be governed by the act? I ask the Premier: Will it be the plants which will be operated here in the Province by Bill Barry and his group of companies, or will it be the part of FPI that John Risley will operate in Danvers, Massachusetts?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, we are not going to stand here and speculate on a possible option that the hon. gentleman opposite is suggesting is going to happen. As I said, all options are open. There is no sense in us turning around and saying to you: If a certain situation happens, what are we going to do? We will cross that bridge when we come to it; and, when we come to it, we will have a discussion with the unions, we will have a discussion with the communities, and we will have a discussion with all stakeholders that are affected here.

This is not going to be something that is unilaterally done behind closed doors, like the hon. party opposite did when they were in government, and turn around and virtually close the Voisey's Bay deal, turn around and try to ram through the Lower Churchill deal. This will be an open process and you will know what is going on.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the Premier, while we wait for you to examine options, we watched Harbour Breton close and the majority of its citizens head to Alberta, we have watched Fortune close, and those people are considering doing likewise, so if we have to wait for you to examine your options there might not be anyone left in rural Newfoundland and Labrador, I say to the Premier.

Mr. Speaker, under the NEOS proposal of 1999, Bill Barry and John Risley were prepared to buy FPI for $9 a share. Nine dollars a share. Most of the people in this Province, including many of those who are sitting over there in your government today, were diametrically opposed to that proposal put forward by those two gentlemen of the day. Today, the Premier and his government are prepared to entertain a deal which would see these same two individuals buy FPI for $4.75 a share.

I ask the Premier: What has changed since 1999, that would lead you to even entertain such a proposal?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, what a diatribe of nonsense coming from the Leader of the Opposition.

Mr. Speaker, John Risley and company took over FPI under their watch, not under this watch, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, from 1987-2004, FPI went from employing 8,700 people in this Province to 2,400 people. Who was the government when all of that happened, Mr. Speaker?

Mr. Speaker, FPI used to operate thirty-three plants in this Province; today they are operating eight. Whose watch did that happen under, Mr. Speaker?

Mr. Speaker, FPI used to operate sixty-six trawlers in this Province; today they are operating ten. Under whose watch did that happen?

What a diatribe of nonsense, Mr. Speaker!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

What a rant and a rave. All we need here on the floor of the House of Assembly is the pan of a pickup truck.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: If this government accepts this proposal, can he tell us how many plants currently owned by FPI will continue to remain open, and what impact these plants may have on some of the plants that are owned by Mr. Barry which operate in nearby communities?

For example, Mr. Barry owns a shrimp plant in Clarenville. If he takes over FPI's operation, he will also own one a short distance down the road in Catalina or Port Union. What impact will the Barry and Risley proposal that is on the table have on the existing operations of Mr. Barry and those owned by FPI?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, we will rant and we will roar whenever we feel like it. I am not a bit impressed with the Leader of the Opposition and the pan of pickup trucks, and the this and that. Do you know what? He did a better job than I did at ranting and roaring in the back of the pickup truck, and the footage from CBC and the other television stations would show that.

Now, am I going to respond to a what-if statement, Mr. Speaker? Absolutely not. The Leader of the Opposition, when he was Minister of Fisheries, was known as a peekaboo minister. He showed his face when he had something good to announce, and crawled under the carpet when he had nothing to announce or bad news to announce.

Well, Mr. Speaker, this minister and this government face our responsibility on a daily basis and we will deal with it on a daily basis, but we will not deal with what-ifs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is not what-ifs. According to the minister himself, there is a deal, there is a proposal put on the table. This government claims that it is open, transparent and accountable; yet, you are hiding behind closed doors, cutting deals with the likes of John Risley and Bill Barry.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. REID: One of these days you will trot it out and say: Here is the deal; take it or leave it - I say to the minister.

Mr. Speaker, we have heard your ministers, I say to the Premier, state repeatedly that the FPI groundfish operations were struggling in this Province because of competition from China, because of lack of a resource and a high Canadian dollar.

I ask the Premier: How do you think Mr. Barry will overcome these obstacles and keep all of the plants open when FPI could not, and what will you do to guarantee that under this proposal all of those plants will remain open?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, we are not going to fall into this foolishness that the Leader of the Opposition is getting on with, talking about what-ifs, what are you going to guarantee on that?

Mr. Speaker, I assume the sun will shine tomorrow. I assume it will be a fine day but we are not going to guarantee it and that is as silly as the question coming from the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again, I say to the minister, he was the one who went out last week and talked about this proposal. It certainly was not us, and it was nobody else in the Province talking about it because they were just as shocked as we are.

Mr. Speaker, a final question. Several weeks ago the Minister of Fisheries stated, from the back of a pickup truck, that FPI had broken the law and it was going to be charged, it was going to be charged, it was going to be charged! - to quote his own words. We all know that FPI shipped unprocessed fish out of this Province to China for processing. All we need to determine is whether you or your predecessor gave them permission. We do not need to hire Columbo. We do not need to bring in a CSI investigation team into the Province. All I want to know is when the charges will be laid?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, there is a process. The process will be followed and when the process is completed, we will see where it takes us.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Premier.

Mr. Speaker, before Easter the breakdown of the Hebron-Ben Nevis talks received much discussion. At that time the Premier stated that he had had some discussions with Chevron's lead negotiator from Calgary regarding the project.

I ask the Premier: Has anything new happened over the past two weeks that would provide hope that this project might proceed? If not, can the Premier advise what plans government has to, hopefully, get this project back on track?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I can advise the hon. Opposition House Leader and to the members of this House, that nothing has transpired since. They came to us at one point there, which I indicated before, to reopen the talks but then they basically collapsed and withdrew, and that was the end of it.

In order to clarify the record, I sent a letter out, under my signature, to the four chairs of all four companies affected, the partners, basically, setting out exactly where we had reached in the discussions, what our understanding of the discussions were and what we understood their position to be and left that there for the record so that there will be no misunderstanding or lack of clarity in the whole issue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you.

I say to the Premier, we have asked for information. It, certainly, would be nice if the public could see a copy of the letter so that we would know exactly what deal was on the table here. We have requested it several times.

Mr. Speaker, Husky Energy has recently stated that they will not be moving forward with any natural gas development until they feel the Province has solidified the rules and royalty regimes under which they must operate. The company's President stated that before making large investments they want regulatory certainty to ensure the rules will not change midway through their projects. New developments in our offshore industry are currently on hold.

I ask the Premier: When will the Province stop stalling and put these rules and royalty regimes in place?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I disagree on the basis of what is fact as opposed to what is fiction, that new developments are on hold, because what is occurring speaks to it differently. There is about $800 million going to be spent in the next three years on exploration. Major companies like Exxon, Chevron, for example - Conoco Phillips are in the process right now of contracting the biggest drill rig in the world, known as the Erik Raude, to do exploration in the Orphan Basis and potentially, in the Sub-Laurentian Basin.

With respect to the natural gas royalty regime, which is exactly what the member is talking about, we are going through an energy planning process. I have met with Conoco Phillips. The Premier and I have met with John Lau. We have met with Husky Energy. They understand the process that we are involved with. We are at the tail end of that process and we will not be rushed forward on the basis of a request from a company to move in a direction before we are prepared to, simply because the importance of what we are up to means billions of dollars in revenue over the long haul for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. When we are satisfied that we have it right, we will put it forward so it will benefit the people of the Province, and that process is coming to its logical and natural conclusion, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: I say to the minister, I do not know what is fact and fiction, and I know you have commented in the past about our reliance upon the Globe and Mail as a reliable research facility but lo and behold, there are comments printed in the Globe and Mail business section from the President of Husky Oil who says this is on hold. So, I am not dealing with fiction, I am dealing with printed statements from this gentleman.

Mr. Speaker, we have received many calls to our office from concerned businesspeople who feel the delay in Hebron-Ben Nevis will have a negative impact on their operations. Some have even gone so far as to say that their offshore activity, including a planned expansion of the Hibernia field, are on hold.

I ask the Premier: Has government been given any indication that the planned expansion, development or exploration work will be put on hold? If not, what interest has been shown in the parcels of land that we, as a Province, will be making available in this year's Call for Bids?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, nobody can say for sure what is happening with Hibernia South, whether it has been put on hold or not, simply because Exxon Mobil recently, in the last several months, ran into some difficulty because they got a drill bit stuck some x number of miles out from a lateral extension. That set them back about four or five months.

Now, so everybody in the Province understands what the process is, until a development plan application is filed with the CNLOPB, there is really nothing to discuss or nothing to negotiate. Because of that technical engineering difficulty that they ran into, the process has been stalled and there is no development plan application before the CNLOPB. Once that application is before that board, once it is there and it is evaluated, and if the board determines that a fundamental decision is required, then it is in the exclusive domain of the Province. But to say or make an allegation, or even to leave an impression that as a result of the breakdown in Hebron discussions now Exxon Mobil and Hibernia South is all off the rails, Mr. Speaker, would be equivalent to Chicken Little saying the sky is falling or Eeyore saying: Oh, hum, we are expecting rain tomorrow.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you.

Speaking of the CNLOPB, Mr. Speaker, that leads me to my next question. Last year there was a dispute - and ongoing into this year, of course - between the federal and provincial governments concerning who would be the new head of the CNLOPB. As a result, a panel was formed and recommended that Mr. Max Ruelokke, a very qualified and experienced individual, be given the position of Chair and CEO. Mr Ruelokke has been waiting to assume his position for quite some time. However, the Province refuses, I understand, to agree to this appointment because their candidate was not selected.

I ask the Premier: Why is government delaying the appointment of Mr. Ruelokke when all the proper procedures were followed and he was, indeed, confirmed as the most qualified candidate?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I think I would like to share with the hon. members of the House exactly what is going on here in the oil industry. From our own perspective, this government's policy, right from day one, from the day we ran the election from our blueprint, was that there were going to be no more giveaways in this Province. We are dealing here with companies that - in the last quarter, for example, Chevron made $8 billion. Last year Exxon Mobil, for the year, had $36 billion worth of profits. The Chairman of Exxon Mobil, last year, one person, one man, made $400 million in one year. Now, the request that they made to us for investment tax credits on the Hebron project was $400 million. They basically wanted us to take $1,000 from every man, woman and child in this Province and give it to one person who happened to run Exxon. Now, we are not going to allow that to happen.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: When it comes to the CNLOPB, there is a process that is taking place, but we want to make sure -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the Premier if he would complete his answer now, quickly?

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, we want to make sure that we have a person at the head of the CNLOPB who is going to represent the interests of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador and be a champion of that cause of no more giveaways.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

If we could only get as many details about the Hebron-Ben Nevis deal as we get about the Chairman of Exxon's salary we would be doing okay in this Province. Unfortunately, the Premier doesn't see fit to give it to anybody, just keeping it under cloak and dagger again until he figures out what he wants to do, if anything.

Mr. Speaker, since the Province began producing oil, we have attended the Offshore Technology Conference in Houston Texas. This show is considered to be the largest, most influential oil and gas show in the world. For the first time, this Province is not being represented by the Premier or the Energy Minister. Last year, the Premier stated, in a press release, that he attended this conference because it was of vital importance to our offshore industry and it offered an opportunity to discuss our investment climate.

I ask the Premier: Was the decision for you and your minister to skip this year's conference a direct result of the failed Hebron-Ben Nevis discussions? If not, why is government snubbing the conference at this time and sending an alternate minister?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, just for the record this year is the largest delegation that we have ever, ever sent to Houston for a conference.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Secondly, the delegation is headed by a very, very capable minister, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Minister Ottenheimer.

Thirdly, they can't have it both ways. We have a very serious situation going on in the fishery in this Province and I thought the place I should be is right here in Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Colleagues, time is passing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

For some time now we have been raising issues related to increasing problems with drug addictions. I ask the minister today if it is true that people with severe drug addiction problems in this Province are not able to get into treatment programs and that these people, who are in desperate need of immediate help, are being told they will have to wait at least eight months for treatment, and also others are being told that their names are not even being accepted right now for that wait-list program?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the member for her question.

There are 177 people at the methadone clinic in St. John's. There are seventy people on the wait-list; that is true. That is a comprehensive methadone treatment program. It is not just a matter of prescribing methadone drugs. It is a very comprehensive program that treats the patients with the hope of full recovery. There is a wait-list there; it is regrettable.

There was no methadone clinic at all in the Province until last June, when this government put the investment in for a temporary clinic.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: In February of this year, we opened a formal clinic. That was only opened in February of this year. There was an anticipation, based on recommendations from the OxyContin Task Force, that we would require a clinic to accommodate 150 people. Unfortunately, there was a much greater demand for that. We are aware of it, and I am looking into addressing the issue.

We have hired four additional nurses this year, which hopefully will help address the wait-list. We have nine addiction counsellors hired this year, which hopefully will help address the wait-list, and we are looking at other measures to (inaudible).

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Premier, concerning the ongoing problems with FPI and its apparent lack of commitment to the people of rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

Last summer, the Premier refused to vote for changes to the FPI Act, supposed to facilitate the raising of $100 million to improve the position of FPI and finance capital investment in the Province, because he was concerned it would amount to a giveaway. Yet, last week, he was musing over the possibility of letting the American arm go its own way in the face of an offer by Bill Barry for the Newfoundland and Labrador assets.

Doesn't the Premier see this as a definite giveaway, giving the takeover group the very assets they covet, while destroying the structure that allowed FPI to survive and profit during the 1990s and helped the Newfoundland and Labrador fishing industry survive the cod moratorium?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think the hon. gentleman knows, the reason for my voting against FPI, the Income Trust transaction, the last time was that I had difficulty with the wording in that transaction. I did not feel personally that all the loopholes had been covered, but that was only my opinion and it was a free vote in the House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Having said that, we spent fourteen months, as you know, in order to draw significant concessions from that particular company at that particular point in time, so we took them a long, long way.

As for saying that we are doing nothing for rural Newfoundland and Labrador, the hon. gentleman opposite knows that there is nothing further from the truth. What we have done, especially with the FPI situation and the fishery generally in the Province, you know, we have offered to put $30 million on the table right now for early retirement in this Province, and that is a significant step which the hon. gentleman opposite has supported for a long, long time and believes in. We have stepped up for Arnold's Cove. We have stepped up for Harbour Breton. We will step up for Fortune, and we will step up for communities that are in trouble; so that is an unfair comment, that we are not there for rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

That is not what I said.

A few months ago, the Premier and his government was willing to spend $150 million to help save 300 jobs in Stephenville at the Abitibi paper mill. Mr. Speaker, my information is that the current market value of FPI is considerably less than that, perhaps a half. Why isn't the Premier willing to make a similar commitment to acquire the shares of FPI and return it to a publicly-owned company to ensure that its mandate is carried out to protect fishing communities in rural Newfoundland and Labrador and to have a marketing structure for our products throughout the world?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, it is the firm belief of this government and the people who sit on this side of the House that, where possible, the private sector should run these businesses, because they are the best ones to run these businesses.

Having said that, the fishing business is a very, very tough business, a very difficult business. Even the Leader of the Opposition will acknowledge that, it is not an easy business to operate, and the people who are in that business are having difficulty doing it. The last thing that the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador should be doing is to get involved in owning and controlling and operating FPI. It does not make good sense.

What we want to try and do is work with solutions, with communities and with people in the private sector, in order to make it as efficient as possible and create the most employment for people in these communities. So, this government, generally, is not going to go out and buy FPI. I have stated that before; I will state it again.

MR. E. BYRNE: Nor Abitibi.

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Nor Abitibi, or anything else for that matter. That is not our philosophy, and we stand by it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, on a final supplementary.

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, the Premier knows that it was FPI, under the leadership of Vic Young, that helped with the marketing arm in the U.S. to help these communities survive throughout the moratorium. Why isn't such a structure a viable alternative now, even for a short time, to get the control back over FPI instead of having it head out to the Americans and to Risley and the others who are trying to acquire it?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, what we are trying to do is keep as close to this as possible, as I said earlier in a previous answer, to try and keep all options open. If there is a party or parties, or a group of people who are interested in looking at the Newfoundland and Labrador assets, then we are prepared to consider that. We were also looking at trying to purchase other quota to shore up communities like Fortune and to shore up communities like Harbour Breton.

We are actively pursuing a significant aquaculture project right now in this Province, that could happen, that would have a huge impact on this Province. As well, what we are trying to do - and the single most important thing we are trying to do - is to make sure that we protect these quotas so that these fishing quotas stay in Newfoundland and Labrador under our control, and that is our goal at the end of the day.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time allocated for Question Period has expired.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HARDING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Resource Committee have considered the matters to them referred and have approved, without amendment, the Estimates of Expenditure for the following departments: the Department of Business; the Department of Environment and Conservation; the Department of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and Aboriginal Affairs; the Department of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development; the Department of Natural Resources; and the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

As Chairman of the Committee, Mr. Speaker, I would like to take the opportunity to thank the members on the Committee as well as the House of Assembly staff, the ministers and officials from their respective departments, for their co-operation and participation.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDGLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Social Services Committee have considered the matters to them referred and have approved without amendment the following Heads of Expenditure: the Department of Education; the Department of Health and Community Services; the Department of Justice; the Department of Municipal Affairs; the Department of Human Resources, Labour and Employment, and Labrador Affairs, and the Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation.

Likewise, Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the members of the committee and the minister and staff for the expeditious way in which these committees were handled.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Presenting further reports by standing and select committees.

Tabling of Documents.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Pursuant to Section 49(2) of the Financial Administration Act, I wish to table the attached list of Temporary Loans that are raised under Section 48 of the Act since the last report to the House.

Also, Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Section 55(3) of the Financial Administration Act, I wish to report that there are no guaranteed loans paid out by the Province since the last annual report to the House. So there are none to be tabled. It is necessary to indicate that in a report to the House.

Also, in addition, and pursuant to Section 55.1(2), I wish to report that there has been no guaranteed debt of any Crown corporation or agency assumed by the Province since the last annual report to the House.

MR. SPEAKER: Further tabling of documents?

Notices of Motions.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The City Of Corner Brook Act, The City Of Mount Pearl Act, The City Of St. John's Act, The Municipalities Act, 1999 And The St. John's Assessment Act." (Bill 14)

Also, Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The Municipalities Act, 1999." (Bill 20)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following private member's resolution:

WHEREAS the cost of prescription drugs is rising and is an increasing proportion of health care spending from all sources, and now exceeds the cost of doctor's services as a percentage of overall health care costs; and

WHEREAS drug therapies play a crucial role in the management of disease and treatment for illness or other medical conditions and can avoid hospitalization or other institutional care while providing a better quality of life; and

WHEREAS current access to prescription drugs depends on a mixture of public, workplace and private plans and according to the Canadian Diabetes Association up to 35 per cent of our population has no access to a drug plan at all and must pay for drug therapies with their own resources, which in many cases are inadequate; and

WHEREAS there are opportunities to provide greater fairness of access to drug treatments and to save money for the health care system by having a more comprehensive system; and

WHEREAS government has taken an important step in the recent Budget in recognizing the importance of access to prescription drugs for those of low family incomes;

BE IT RESOLVED that a Select Committee of the House of Assembly be struck to inquire into and report on the feasibility and options with respect to the development of a province-wide comprehensive system that would ensure that all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians have access to a prescription drug plan.

MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motions?

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The Provincial Court Judges Pension Plan Act." (Bill 7)

MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motions?

The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act Respecting The Practice of Physiotherapy." (Bill 19)

I further give notice that on tomorrow I will ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The Child, Youth and Family Services Act." (Bill 18)

I further give notice that on tomorrow I will ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act Respecting The Delivery Of Health And Community Services And The Establishment Of Regional Health Authorities." (Bill 11)

MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion?

The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bills:

"An Act To Amend The Occupational Health And Safety Act." (Bill 9)

"An Act To Amend The Securities Act." (Bill 10)

"An Act To Amend The Building Accessibility Act." (Bill 8)

"An Act To Repeal Obsolete Acts And To Amend The Highway Traffic Act." (Bill 17)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion?

The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The Environmental Protection Act." (Bill 16)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On behalf of my colleague, the Minister of Justice and Attorney, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bills:

"An Act To Amend The Sheriff's Act, 1991." (Bill 13)

"An Act Respecting The Convention On The Settlement Of Investment Disputes Between States And Nationals Of Other States." (Bill 12)

MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion?

Answers To Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition on behalf of the councils on the north shore of the Bay of Islands. Also at the meeting there were members from the Town of Mount Moriah and the Town of Massey Drive. I checked with the Clerk of the House and the petition is in order.

I will read the petition:

WHEREAS Council is opposing the continued use of the Wild Cove dump site;

WHEREAS the site creates a mess of garbage along the roadway from Wall Cove to Ballam Bridge;

WHEREAS the smell is particularly bad in summer;

WHEREAS any tourists who visit our area don't have a good impression of the area right from the start, having to drive through the litter along the roadway and ditches;

WHEREUPON we the undersigned are opposed to the Wild Cove dump staying in operation for another twenty years.

And as in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, this is an issue that has been ongoing for a number of years. The Wild Cove dump site, as we know, is under the jurisdiction of the City of Corner Brook. Everybody was of the understanding that the dump site was supposed to be closed in the next two or two and a half years. We understand now that the City of Corner Brook is making representation to the government to have the dump site continue on for the next twenty to thirty years. This was done without any consultation, any collaboration, or any discussion with any of the councils on the north shore that I have met with.

This is an issue that, on one hand, all governments, us included, were hoping it would be closed within the next two years. We are saying that you should improve tourism and improve the health of your water. There is a stream running right by the dump site which is heavily polluted. There are areas in the town where you see dead gulls on a regular basis along the side of the road. The whole road from Ballam Bridge to the dump site is strewn with garbage. In the summertime and in the spring it is an eyesore just to drive through.

I have written the Minister of Municipal Affairs asking him to meet with the towns. I don't know if the minister received the letter. I have also written the Minister of Environment and Conservation for him to also meet with the town councils that are affected.

As you know, Mr. Speaker, there have been some discussions in the media lately about this issue, and I can assure both ministers in the House that there have been no discussions take place with the councils on the north shore of the Bay of Islands. The Massey Drive Council: There were a few representatives from that council at the meeting. They are concerned.

As we know, and as the minister is well aware, there was a study done - I think it was completed in 2003 - about regional disposal areas. There is a piece in the paper from the Great Humber joint Council. Since then, there has been no discussion whatsoever on this proposal. The proposal itself was to take all the regional disposal sites outside any municipality, have it as a region and run it as a committee, but we see, with the Robin Hood Bay dump area, the whole plan that was put in place in 2003 will not be followed.

Mr. Speaker, I will be presenting this petition and I will be presenting petitions in the near future, as I get them, on a regular basis. I have almost 1,000 people signing petitions and I just thank the Speaker for allowing me to present the petition.

MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions?

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It gives me great pleasure to rise and present a petition on behalf of the citizens of Rose Blanche-Harbour Le Cou and Diamond Cove with respect to the possible - and I say possible - closure of St. Michael's Elementary School in that community.

The school has been in existence, of course, for many, many years. It is a Kindergarten to Grade 6 school. The older children have been bused out for some time to the community of Burnt Islands, which is seventeen or eighteen kilometres away. Of course, the smaller children, for very logical reasons, have always been kept in the community. They are much smaller and it is much more difficult to transport them.

Now, the Western School Board, which is headquartered in Corner Brook, of course, controls the educational system in Southwestern Newfoundland, actually, to Corner Brook, the Northern Peninsula, right on down the South Coast. They have done a study, an assessment, of all the schools in their region, and there is a possibility that this school, St. Michael's in Rose Blanche, may be closing. There is going to be a meeting on May 18 in the community of Rose Blanche, which will be attended by the school board officials. The Director of Education, Dr. Elliott, and the board members, will be in the community of Rose Blanche on May 18 to listen to the community. I applaud the board for doing that. They have not made a decision, as is sometimes done here, to say that your school is slated for closure and it will close on such-and-such a date. In fairness to the board members here, they want to be fully informed before they make a final decision at their June meeting.

Now, I have had an opportunity to review the information, the statistical information, that the board has circulated to date concerning the age of the school, the number of kids, the declining enrollment that is anticipated by the year 2010 and so on. There is a lot of information that we do not have and, on behalf of the residents, I have written to the board again asking if they would forward me the information. I have also written to the Minister of Education and asked if she could be at the meeting on May 18, because she represents the area, number one, right next door to the District of Burgeo & LaPoile, and she has, as well, many rural communities in her district that may or may not face the same fate in the future. As a new Minister of Education, I think it would be very important and prudent if she, in fact, could be there.

The residents of that area of Rose Blanche, Diamond Cove and Harbour Le Cou are, of course, very rational people and, when the meeting takes place on the eighteenth, there are no concerns here about anybody getting out of hand or anything like that. These people will be very well prepared. They will be very rational in the presentation of their arguments and, in fact, they will not even be arguments. They will be good, rational reasons and justifications as to why any thoughts of possibly closing St. Michael's at this time are totally inappropriate and out of order.

I am very pleased to raise this issue on behalf of the residents, and if I get an opportunity in the next couple of weeks, again, before May 18, I will certainly take the opportunity to give further information to this hon. House and to the Minister of Education. Hopefully, members of the board will be listening as well so that, when we go there on the eighteenth, everybody will be fully informed, ears wide open, approach this thing logically, patiently, and I am sure that, in the end result, St. Michael's will still remain open.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions?

The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Today I rise again, the same as every other day, on behalf of the people of the Buchans area. It is unfortunate that the Minister of Transportation and Works, last week, made several announcements regarding upcoming upgrades and expenditures on the Trans-Canada Highway and also on our provincial road system but yet, regrettably, he did not announce any money for the upgrades to the Buchans Highway. I do not understand this, and I do not think there are very many people in Central Newfoundland who would understand what he has done, or what he has failed to do.

At least when the former Minister of Transportation and Works was in that position he did offer a small amount of money to fix the sides of the pavement that were cracked, but this particular minister, representing a government that left $600 million of a surplus on the table, decided, in their wisdom, or lack of wisdom, not to put any money into the Buchans Highway. I do not understand it.

We have a Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development; she has 152 people in her department trying to generate and improve the economy of our Province. Yet, in the Estimates Committee, when she was asked directly by the critics on this side of the House how many jobs has her department created since she has taken over that role, she said: I will have to check on those numbers for you. She said: I will have to check on those numbers for you.

In other words, you have a government here that is three years into the mandate; they are looking for an opportunity, so they say, to develop the economy of rural Newfoundland and Labrador. Here we have a situation where the economy is new. In the Millertown area and the Buchans area we have two mining projects up there that are going to create 250 permanent jobs. It is looking them straight in the face and they are not acknowledging what this new money will do for the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador and the taxpayers of this Province. They say on one hand that they are supporting rural Newfoundland and Labrador, but on the other hand they show no evidence that they are.

We have a road up there that is impossible for the traffic to go over, and it has gotten that way over the past two years because we have heavy equipment going to the Duck Pond mine site. We also have heavy equipment coming over the road, hauling logs. Now we will have barite being shipped, as well as ore from the Millertown mine, the Duck Pond mine.

This government, who have lots of money in the bank and are trying to generate the economy in rural Newfoundland and Labrador, are shutting the door. It is regrettable, it is short-sighted, and I do not know what to do to get this minister to loosen the purse strings. I guess I will have to go directly to the Premier, and I intend to do that this week.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions?

The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition to the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in Parliament assembled. The petition of the undersigned residents humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS conditions on Route 70 passing through Victoria and Salmon Cove is badly in need of repair; and

WHEREAS the traffic travelling over this road includes school buses, commercial trucks and patients going to and from hospitals; and

WHEREAS this route is part of the Conception Bay North Highway and it has deteriorated over the past three years;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, call upon all Members of the House of Assembly to see that this section of road is brought up to proper standards.

And as is duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, this petition was circulated by a representative of the residents in that area, Mr. William Clarke. Mr. Clarke took it upon himself to go door to door on that particular stretch of highway and asked me to present it here to this hon. House, to see if some action could be done.

Last fall, there was approximately one truckload of asphalt put in some of the potholes on that particular road. Over the winter, all of that has been knocked loose or shaken out of position and put over on the side of the road. The potholes are there bigger than ever. The amount of damage that has happened to vehicles, people with struts and tires broken on their cars on this particular main piece of highway is certainly unbelievable. The number of complaints that is going into the depot in both Heart's Content and Bay Roberts is unbelievable.

Mr. Speaker, this particular section of road is of vital importance to the residents of that area because it is the main link. It is not a secondary road, it is a main link. The road itself is the main means of transportation for the residents of the North Shore, Perry's Cove, Kingston and down to Old Perlican. It is the main link to the Carbonear General Hospital, as well as to the Health Sciences Centre. When somebody is sick and distressed in an ambulance, the drivers of the ambulances have to slow down their vehicles to make sure that there is no further damage being done to the patient.

Mr. Speaker, this particular section of highway is a main artery from the number of fish plants on that particular shore, transporting the fruits of the labour of the workers in that particular community. It is of vital importance that this product be brought to the market as quickly as possible, the frozen product. When we drive over this particular road, as I do on a regular basis visiting part of my constituency, it becomes obvious that this road has been neglected. It has not been touched, except for that one load of asphalt that I interceded upon for last year. That is the only bit of asphalt that has gone on there and that, too, has deteriorated.

Mr. Speaker, again, I realize my time is coming short and I will be saying more of this over the days and weeks to follow.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

CHAIR: Further Petitions?

Orders of the Day.

CHAIR: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Before I move to Orders of the Day, I do want to give notice under Section 66(3), I believe, of the Standing Orders of the House that the Private Member's Motion that we will be debating on Wednesday will be the one that was put forward today by the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I do want to move, if I may, first of all Motion 4, pursuant to Standing Order 11, that the House not adjourn at 5:30 and Motion 5, pursuant to Standing Order 11, that the House not adjourn at 10:00 o'clock, first and foremost.

CHAIR: The motion is that the Government House Leader has moved that, according to Standing Order 11, the House not adjourn at 5:00 o'clock today, Monday.

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, ‘nay'.

Carried.

The second motion is that this House not adjourn today, Monday, at 10:00 p.m.

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, ‘nay'.

Motion carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

With that, Mr. Speaker, we will move to Order 3, what is commonly known in the Budget Debate as concurrence debates which, essentially, deal with all the Estimates of the House per department. So, today, we will begin with Order 3, Concurrence Motion related to the Government Services Committee.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair recognizes the hon. Member for St. John's Centre.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, if I could, I would like to just have a few remarks about the Government Services Committee. I would like to, first of all, start off by thanking the members of the committee for their time and their efforts during the meetings that we had. As people would know, there are members on the government side as well as members on the Opposition side. I would like to thank Mr. Sweeney, Ms Marshall, Mr. Oram, Mr. Forsey, Mr. Andersen and Mr. Langdon who all were members of that committee.

We had, I believe, Mr. Speaker, three or four different meetings. We reviewed a number of departments and, for the public, I will name the departments: the Department of Government Services, the Public Service Commission, the Department of Finance, and the Intergovernmental Affairs Secretariat were all departments that came in and presented before the committee and gave all members of the committee an opportunity to ask some questions.

The process, Mr. Speaker, I will say to you, I believe is a good process. It gives us an opportunity, with the Budget documents, to have all the officials from each of the departments that I mentioned, come in, sit before the committee and answer any questions that we may have where we need to get a little bit more clarification on where the public funds, the monies of the people are being spent. The members of the committee, in all cases, had a number of questions for the minister and for the minister's staff who came and appeared before us. It allowed us an opportunity to shed a little bit of light into some of the spending practices of the different departments, and, at least, I guess, give us some comfort that the monies that were being spent were monies that were being spent well.

In some ways, Mr. Speaker, I guess it resembles a little bit of the Question Period because it gives the members an opportunity to ask some questions that are not really obvious what the answers may be and, with the minister and the officials that you have there before you, you have an opportunity to bury down a little bit into the Budget documents and find out a little bit of detail about how each of the departments are working.

At that, Mr. Speaker, I will conclude my remarks and allow an opportunity for the debate to continue.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Further speakers to the concurrence motion for the Government Services Committee.

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate an opportunity to have a few words again in the Budget Debate here. It had been in the process last week, or a couple of weeks ago here, and I got myself all wound up and found myself, very abruptly, the time was up and I had to sit down. We did not get an opportunity to say all we would have liked to have said.

Of course, the Budget is probably the single most important piece of work that a government does in the run of its administration. Everything else that we do hinges, in one way or another, on the Budget itself, because, of course, if you do not have the approval, as a government, to spend the money or to raise the money, we do not have too much that we can do. That is why I think everything else that we do as a Province pretty well hinges as to what we end up, ultimately, with in that document.

We have heard a lot of things about this Budget that was brought down by the minster here some weeks ago. We have heard people say, of course, that there were a lot of good things in that Budget. We even had some people over on this side of the House saying that there were good things in that Budget. I do not disagree that there were some good things in the Budget, but I also do not believe that the Budget was as good as it ought to have been. I think we have to be very careful. I use the word deceptive in the sense that you can be fooled by what is in this Budget. I am going to give some examples as to why I think we have to be careful when we hear government say: great Budget and leave it at that. You have to peel back a few layers of the onion, as they say. In fact, I use the word onion - peel back a few layers of the onion because once you do, you will come across a few things in this Budget that might make you cry. I believe that this is an opportunity to say and show the difference here between what government says is in there and fleshing out the arguments and giving more details as to what it is actually all about.

I will give you some examples here. It talks about the extra money in the Budget. Yes, indeed we should have extra money in the Budget. You wonder: Where did all of this money come from? Some people might think: Well, my God, they were magnificent managers in this Province in the last year. They were so good that they took us from a massive, massive deficit position to all of a sudden having a surplus, and they did it all themselves. Of course, one needs only to listen to any of the media these days, and you hear everywhere - TV, newspapers, radio, wherever you listen - that the price of a barrel of oil has gone from $30, a couple of years ago, to over $70. Now, as good as this government is, of course, I do not think they could influence the price of a barrel of oil. They might wish they could, but I do not think Premier Williams and his government, as good as they are, can influence the price of a barrel of oil.

We did hear in the Throne Speech, of course - they took credit for a lot of stuff in the Throne Speech, too. We heard a lot about the Olympic gold and so on, which was great English language, metaphors and all that stuff when you are talking about flowery language and optimism. Everybody in this Province took their hats off and pounded their chests about the accomplishments of Brad Gushue and the rink from this Province in the Olympics, and so we should have and they should be very proud of them and we ought to be very proud of them. There was a pretty close link between a lot of the words I heard in the Throne Speech and us winning the Olympic gold almost. In fact, the Premier took credit from everything in the Throne Speech to even Rex Goudie. I believe that was actually read here - I know it was read here - by the Lieutenant Governor here in the Speaker's Chair where we took credit for just about everything, that government. I am sorry to say, folks, this government had very little to do with some of those things. They had very little to do with the price of oil, but fortunately, because we are producing some oil and because the price more than doubled, we ended up with money in the coffers that this government was in a position, as they should, to do some things for the benefit of the people in this Province.

Let's look at some of the things they did not do, or some of the things they are trying to take credit for. For example, two years ago when they brought in a Budget here in 2004 - the election was in October of 2003. We did not have any session in the fall. They had their first session in the spring and they brought in a budget - fees. Everything you pay for in this Province, from a birth certificate to a death certificate and everything in between - everything, and I mean everything - went up, to the tune of $28 million. This government put $28 million worth of fee increases on the backs of the people two years ago. Now, people tend to forget things sometimes and just need a little reminder. That was in 2004, and we all paid them. As I say, birth certificate to death certificate, you paid it. If you drove a car, you paid it. If you had a trailer on your car, you paid it. I mean not only paid, you paid for the increases. Sure, they even have snowmobiles involved and everything else. You cannot go anywhere in the Province now unless you get tagged with a fee for something.

What happened in 2005? Lo and behold, the government left that there. As a matter of fact, I think they tagged on a few more fees. I did not know they missed any in 2004, but I do believe in 2005 they might have even found a couple of more to increase, and they took that $28 million out of your back pockets.

So, what did they do this year in their Budget? They said: Whoa! We are going to be good this year. They went out and actually pounded their chests, and the crowd on the other side of this House had been over there for the last month patting themselves on the back because they gave back to the people $1.2 million. Yes, sir, we are some good! But I call it slight of hand. I take $28 million from you in 2005, I take $28 million from you in 2004, but in 2006, I say: I'm the nice guy. I am going to give you back $1.2 million. My God, some of it that they gave back, I mean, I am sure the people of this Province really, really were significantly impacted by it. For example, they cut the fees on the polar bear licence. Now that was a great one. I have all kinds of people in the Burgeo & LaPoile District who went out and bought extra turkeys and extra cars because they had their polar bear fees cut. Yes, Sir, all kinds of them. Now, that is what this government took credit for.

I will give you another one, a far more serious issue, the cancer clinic. The former Administration had the cancer clinic in Central done, planned, drawings done, monies in the Budget 2003. This government comes in in October, 2003, scrapped. Sorry, ladies and gentlemen, you are not getting your cancer clinic in Central. In fact, I do believe we were here arguing about it in the spring of 2004. Shocking! Only when the Premier actually saw a video on the media about people sitting in this place in Central with five-gallon water tubs in front of them that he finally relented and said: Maybe we went a little bit too far. I mean, that is a pretty serious poke in the eye that you have to get in order to become reasonable and understand what is going on in this Province. What did they do after? We are going to give you back the clinic. A great thing! We are going to give you a clinic in Central for a cancer clinic but, ladies and gentlemen of the public, do not be fooled. That was given two, three, four years ago and taken away from you by the same crowd who are now saying they are great fellows, ladies and gentlemen over there on the other side of the House, great government because they are giving back to you something that they took away from you.

The auditorium up in Happy Valley-Goose Bay, my colleague, friend, the Member for Torngat Mountains talked himself blue in the face over here in the spring of 2004, the spring of 2005, until finally in the spring of 2006 the government is over there jumping and screaming and saying: We are finally going to give you the centre for Happy Valley-Goose Bay. But I do not think the people of Happy Valley-Goose Bay really got fooled. They know that it was approved back in 2003 and got cancelled by this government. They know that.

I will give you another example, more closer to home for me, the weigh scales in Port aux Basques area. Five, six, seven kilometres outside of town. Now, mind you, we have - I believe at last count - 197,000 tractor-trailers that were coming off the Marine Atlantic; eighteen wheelers, big loads, tons and tons and the government says we are going to close that down. We do not need that. The first entry point into the Province, we are going to close that. We have to do it, fiscally responsible. Forget about safety. Forget about anything else, and this member right here talked myself blue in the face telling the Minister of Government Services that this was a bad decision, this was unsafe. Not only was it unnecessary, this was unsafe. We get up today and rave about workers' comp and so on and things. Yes, but when we pointed out to her a very essential and important piece of safety in our Province, the weigh scales - an inspection station by the way, you just did not weigh stuff. The sign, which I gave the Minister a copy of a picture, showed an inspection station. Well, ladies and gentlemen in this Province, we did not have any inspections done on any of those 197,000, other than a set of portable weigh scales from time to time that got whipped out, if they happened to catch them.

What did we see this year in the Budget? We see the government raving, the minister making an announcement, saying: We are going to put the weigh scales back again, now; thank you very much. Sometimes, you know, not only the people in government - I do not care what government it is - have all the right answers and all the right ideas. Sometimes government do not have any, to an issue. We are seeing that today in the case of FPI, we saw that in the case of Abitibi, we saw that in the case of Harbour Breton, that there is a bankruptcy occurring in the government when it comes to solutions. Sometimes people make a very valid suggestion but, no, you are not part of the government so dare you suggest anything that might be beneficial. Anyway, I am glad to say the minister came to her senses after getting numerous copies of safety violations, traffic accidents out in Western Newfoundland, and said: We are going to open it again.

I notice - and this ties right in with this government - if you go through the literature and you listen to the media, the word strategic is the most used word of the Williams' Administration. I think someone is keeping count of it. Somebody sent me an e-mail that, so far, we are up in 1,352,000 references that they have seen since October, 2003, with the word strategic. In fact, the Minister of Government Services, in opening the weigh scales, said this is being strategically reactivated. They could not even say we are just going to open it. They had to say we are going to strategically reactivate it.

I always believe in common sense, myself, and common language. If you are going to open it, open it. I also believe, don't make the people think that you just did a great thing. You are giving the people back - and I don't just mean the people out in Port aux Basques - the few jobs that are going to be created. That is very much appreciated by anybody in rural Newfoundland, God knows. The people of this Province deserve the safety elements that we have, but you are only giving them back something that you stripped them of. That is what you did. Don't take credit for something that you stripped them of.

Another example we hear in the last few weeks: Driver licence examiner for Burgeo, going to go in every few days and test people who want to get their driver's licence renewed, and do their photographs.

Now, I would doubt that anybody who lives inside the overpass, as we say, have ever had that concern about how to get your licence renewed. It is probably something that you take for granted. We run down to the corner some morning, we have to get a passport, or we have to get a blood test on this, or we need an MRI, or we need a driver's licence, and we take it for granted, but the people in Burgeo and Ramea could not take it for granted. It was something that they looked forward to, they worked their schedule around. It was the cheapest, most efficient way that they could get it done, but it was essential. You cannot drive without it.

What used to happen after we saw government cancel it? I will tell you what happened. We saw the residents of Ramea, Grey River, Burgeo, anybody who had a driver's licence, what did they have to do? They had to get on the ferry in Ramea, and pay to get on the ferry, mind you. They had to drive or find some way of transportation from Burgeo to Corner Brook, which was three or four hours away, and guess what, ladies and gentlemen? They could not do that in one day because we do not have the transportation system to allow them to do all of that in one day if they had to. So these people had to take time off work, if you are lucky enough - and there are very few right now, I would say - to have a job, to go to a place like Corner Brook or Stephenville to get your picture taken or to get your driver's licence renewed. Imagine. Now, forget the fact that government had yanked up the fee on it anyway. We already dealt with that here this afternoon. Forget the fact that you are just paying more to get it, and you are paying more for gas, and if you do not have a relative in Corner Brook you probably had to find somewhere to stay, and you had to pay the ferry to get over there, that is what this government put the people of that particular area through for two years.

This member stood up here repeatedly and said: How can you justify doing such a thing, for what it costs? Every Newfoundlander and Labradorian is entitled to certain basic services that we have. If you are going to charge them, or overcharge them, you ought to provide them with the service. If you are going to yank up the fees, there is a presumption that you are going to give the people the service they need for the fees they are paying; for example, driver licence examiner. So, we got that put back. It is not giving you something you never had before; my social conscience came awake and I have realized that I am going to do this out of the goodness of my heart because you good people on the South Coast deserve it. They are giving them back something that they always had, so don't go gloating too much, and taking too much credit about what you did there. So far, I believe that is five items I have gone through, that this government touted the Budget about and took credit for as being graced up.

Now, there is another one - oh, there are lots of these. I am only just getting started. Unfortunately, in this part of debate, I only get twenty minutes, I do believe. The teachers, press releases coming out of the Minister of Education: We are leaving 151 teachers in the system. There are 152 who could come out, but we are not going to touch them. We are going to leave them in there.

Guess what, ladies and gentlemen? In 2004-2005 they did not tell you about the 500 they took out. We do not hear about that in 2006. All we hear in 2006 is, we are going to let you keep 151 and we are not going to touch them because we are such firm believers in the education of our children.

Well, I say to the government again, you have to tell it like it is. You have to tell it like it is, because the people will only be fooled for so long. When people get the factual understanding of what really happened, they will see through this government. You may well be leaving in 151, but don't go patting yourselves on the back and pounding your chest, because you already took out 500 teachers in the two years before that.

Leary's Brook, another example. I believe the Member for St. John's North, great credit for this, open line shows and press releases and everything else. Leary's Brook was approved. Another one of those things that was scrapped by this government when they took office, put it back in the Budget and go out and pat your chest and say: Look what I gave you. Well, thank you very much. Thank you very much for giving us what had already been committed to and budgeted earlier but you, yourselves, scrapped.

Marine Atlantic Inc., and I will only touch on one little issue right now about Marine Atlantic, and that is to show the hypocrisy. We get government here, in the letter they sent to the leaders when they were running in the federal election back in December or January, saying: Here is our wish list of what we want. We want an automatic rollback commitment from the federal government that Marine Atlantic ferry rates will automatically be 15 per cent reduced, right now, as you take over. Whoa! All of a sudden you go over and you flip over the provincial Budget and you look under ferry rates and I see an increase. So, it is okay to ask the federal government for a 15 per cent decline, freeze, immediately -

MR. JOYCE: Insist upon it.

MR. PARSONS: Insist upon it, as part of a written document -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's allotted time has expired.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate the opportunity. I am sure I will get opportunities further on, in other parts of the debate, in the next two or three weeks, to have more words about the Budget.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Further speakers to the Concurrence Debate.

The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I just want to offer a few words on the Budget. My colleague from Burgeo & LaPoile did such a job on the cloak-and-dagger of the Budget and all the hidden things in the Budget, of why we should feel so good, it is almost like being taken hostage and then falling in love with your hostage taker, because they are doing so good giving back all the things they had cut out of the Budget under false pretenses.

When you speak about the government here in Newfoundland and Labrador these days, it is almost like you are some kind of a traitor, that you can't stand up and express your view, or you are all wrong or you are not with it or you are negative, you are not giving people hope. When you do bring up certain issues that are relevant to your area, Corner Brook, Bay of Islands, or around the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, for three years now I have heard: Oh, it is your fault, it is always your fault. The government has been in power now for almost three years and all we hear is: Oh, it is your fault. Only for you, we would be able to do all the things we have done.

I just look at some of the things, and I will just follow on from my colleague from Burgeo & LaPoile. Take out in Corner Brook, the idea of Herdman Collegiate: This issue has been ongoing now since 2000. It has come to the forefront just recently when the motion was passed to close one high school and make one super school in Corner Brook. Under the direction of the school board this was allowed. They went to the Premier and the Minister of Education who got out in Corner Brook and said: Oh, no, we would love to do it, because we understand the concerns of the parents. We know that the social impact study wasn't done, we understand that all the issues haven't been ironed out, but we can't do it because it would cost too much if we cancelled the tender. Then when you open the Budget here, 2006-2007, what is in the Budget? Seven million dollars for Herdman. The tender was never called. Yet out in Corner Brook, a month ago - and the Minister of Education can stand up and justify it if she wants to - the perception was that the tender was called for Herdman Collegiate and that it couldn't be stopped because of that.

The enrollment was up for the high schools. All that information was presented to the Premier and they turned around: Well, the former government did it. The former government gave approval in principal, once there was a social impact study done, once there was a complete realignment of all the school systems in the Corner Brook area, not just one or two. When you say that the former government did it, and we can't stop it, it is just absolutely not true. When you say that the tenders were called out there for Herdman Collegiate, absolutely not true. The money is announced in this year's Budget.

We look at the long-term care facility, Mr. Speaker, something that is needed. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the long-term care facility in Corner Brook is needed. It is a project that I am proud of is going to be done. Then the perception of it, saying that it is going to be done - the Premier is out there saying it is going to be done by 2007. He turns around this year and puts $16 million in the Budget, which is a fair amount of money, but when you look at the size of the project - the Minister of Health here in the Estimates - and Hansard will show that the facility will not be completed until the fall of 2009. That is the minister's own words. Here are the people out on the West Coast - on one hand the Premier is saying it is going to be built by 2007, we are going to get a rush on, and here is the minister in the Estimates saying the long-term care facility is going to be built in 2009. I have it in Hansard, that you said the long-term care facility will be completed in 2009, Sir. I will show it to you.

MR. T. OSBORNE: (Inaudible).

MR. JOYCE: Oh, you never said it. So, 2009. When is it going to be done? In January?

MR. T. OSBORNE: (Inaudible).

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, that is just the perception that is given out in Corner Brook. Then we look at the dementia units out in Corner Brook. Here is another situation where - the big announcement. We are going to start building the dementia units. Here is the minister again in the Estimates - and you can check Hansard yourself, minister - that there is no plan to start the building right now. There is no money in the Budget. They are going to build them in stages over the next three years. That is not what was said out in Corner Brook. You are probably being straightforward, and I take you on your word. I honestly do, but the perception out in Corner Brook, when the announcement was made, is that they are going to be build right away. That the money was going to be there in this year's Budget and they are going to be built and included with the long-term care facility beds. When you sit here in the Estimates and say that you truly believe that, I have no problem with that because I do take you at face value. I honestly do. The perception in the media in Corner Brook is that they are going to be built right away. So people are out expecting these eighty or ninety units to be built right away, and we find out from the minister that they are going to be built over three years. There is no money in this year's Budget and they are going to be built in phases. That is not the perception that is out in Corner Brook, I can assure you.

Now, look at the roads, the Minister of Transportation and Works. A lot of times we do get into a heated discussion, and I say to the minister - even in Hansard, when I was speaking to the minister. I wrote the minister three times asking for a meeting concerning the roads in the Bay of Islands. Three times I wrote him. I do represent the Bay of Islands, I do it to the best of my ability. I have yet to get a response from the minister that he even received my letters - not a response. Three times I wrote that minister asking that he meet with me to discuss the concerns, the conditions of the roads and the other safety issues in the Bay of Islands and I have yet to get a response. That is serious to me, Mr. Speaker, that is a serious issue because there are a lot of safety concerns that happens in any rural part of Newfoundland and Labrador on a regular basis and it is major concern when the minister is over there laughing at it. When I wrote him three times - not only me, every council on the North Shore wrote him. Still, they have not received a response.

Then we turnaround and we talk about the minister standing up and saying it is the most money we put into the roads program ever, the most money ever. That may be true, but the part that he is forgetting to say is that there was $12 million last year that was not spent. How much of that was going to be spent in rural Newfoundland and Labrador that was not spent, that this year should be spent if we get the tenders called? Once again, where is it going to be spent?

I see last year up in Massey Drive - and I questioned the minister in the Estimates here - $400,000 given to the Town of Massey Drive, and what does the mayor say? Not for safety concerns. It is not because there are road conditions. There is only one road going up Massey Drive. There is a safety road coming out to hook into Lady Slipper Road. It is to open up development. So, $400,000 of money from Transportation and Works is gone into Massey Drive to open up developments. Here, in the Bay of Islands, we cannot even get a response from the minister, who is supposed to be representing that area, to sit down and have a meeting with the elected official.

Even in Hansard, I asked the minister in Hansard: When will there be an announcement made for the Bay of Islands for roads? He said by the end of April. Guess what? It is May 1 and there is no announcement. I have the Hansard here where the minister told me that all the announcements should be made by April 30. The Bay of Islands will be done by April 30 but there has been no announcement made. Here is the Hansard, Mr. Speaker. That is the kind of arrogance that I find with this government: Okay, we can take it. We are high in the polls, but the safety of the individuals in the towns are just not taken into consideration.

I wrote the minister last week again about another major safety concern in the Bay of Islands. It is about the gabion baskets that are coming in Halfway Point and going out towards Lark Harbour and York Harbour that were put in eight to ten years ago. They are a safety hazard. Some of the gabion baskets, stopping rocks on the steep hills from going on the roads, were actually destroyed. There are rocks, as we speak. I know the minister received letters from several residents who hit cars with big boulders in the middle of the road because the gabion baskets are not fixed properly. There is no work being done to them, whatsoever, as we speak. As we speak, there are rocks still running off these gabion baskets where there was damage on the road.

I spoke to departmental officials and department officials have informed me that they are still trying to get funding to fix the gabion baskets. This is a major safety concern for the people of Bay of Islands. A major safety concern and we cannot get the Department of Transportation and Works to step up to the plate and provide safe roads to the people of the Bay of Islands. It is a shame, I say, Mr. Speaker. It is absolutely a shame! Then you turnaround and tout and say how good everything is going in Newfoundland and Labrador, how good our roads program is when there are roads here - the minister is well aware of it, of the major safety concerns.

I think of the road in McIver's. Last year I had a major battle with the former minister on the road in McIver's. I had to write him, I guess, three times. First, they denied that they received the letters. Finally, after getting confirmation that they received the letters and speaking to the minister two or three times myself, finally the road was done. Mr. Speaker, as I told him at the time, it is going to be done now, just to say that in the public's perception they were doing something. The road, as we speak right now, is just as dangerous now as it was last year because the road was not done properly. I wrote the minister at least three or four times on that road in McIver's and, Mr. Speaker, I have yet to get a response. No, no, that is not true. I got one, one out of three. Some generical response saying: Yes, okay, we understand the road conditions will be put in their priorities. I still have yet to get a meeting with the minister to discuss it.

These are the kinds of concerns that I have with the Budget, in general, in the District of the Bay of Islands. My colleague, the Member for Burgeo & LaPoile, brought up some very good concerns about how it is the cloak and dagger budget. Schools in the Bay of Islands now, they are stripped down. All the teachers are down now saying they are bare bones. They are saying, we are going to keep everybody in, after taking out 500 teachers over the last two years. Then we are supposed to turn around and jump up and say, yippee, what a great government! - after stripping it down.

Employees being laid off - and I know the minister is going to say now about the highway depots, that they have no effect on the roads. With eighty-five people being laid off again - up to 125, actually, being laid off now, with highways again - we are going to be back again this year.... I know the Member for Baie Verte -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JOYCE: I know the Member for Baie Verte is well aware of the concerns of the highway maintenance in his own district. I know the member had a lot of calls last year when the equipment was not ready for operation, when the snow was flying down in his own district. That minister can speak around the round table in Cabinet. How can the Minister of Transportation and Works turn around and say it had no effect on highway maintenance, when the minister, the Member for Baie Verte, himself, had a lot of calls, a lot of concerns, that the roads and the highway equipment were not up to standard, not ready to go?

I am sure the minister - and I know the member personally - I know the member expressed concern in the district, and in and around the Cabinet table, that the maintenance was no done on the equipment last year. The equipment was not ready down in his district; yet, the Minister of Transportation and Works will stand up here in this House and say it had no effect on highway maintenance, it had absolutely no effect.

I heard, last week, the Member for Exploits, when he got and read his prepared speech -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair would ask members if they could keep their conversations, the noise level, down a little bit. The Chair is having difficulty hearing the hon. the Member for Bay of Islands. I ask the members for their co-operation.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Member for Exploits got up just before Easter and read his prepared speech that someone wrote up for him, and touted all of the good things in government, and everything that is going on in government, and he turned around and talked about how good everything is. Guess what? The Mayor of Botwood was out talking about another service cut in his district in Botwood. What did the member have to say to defend it, for the district? Oh, well, when people go in and get their permits down in Joe Batt's Arm, or whatever name the community was, hopefully they will drive up and go through Botwood and spend their money, shop, and sit down and have a meal. That is the response from the Member for Exploits.

How about all the woods workers that were laid off? Did we hear any outcry? Did we hear any concern about the wood workers laid off in his district? Not a word, not one word.

So, when you hear the members opposite stand up and say how rosy everything is, how great everything is, when they are there reading their prepared speech, you know it is not totally true because, when you pick up the media and hear the mayor all upset because there is another service taken out of his town down in Botwood, that was the fourth or fifth one. The courthouse was gone, social services was gone, another department was taken out, and the member is standing up: Everything is still fine; there are no services being taken away from rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

I say that is why, when they are on the opposite side, and you have the perception that everything is just fine, you have to look beneath the words and look at the actual facts.

The Member for Exploits could not even get the letter from his own minister about the harbour development down in Botwood. He could not even get his own minister to write the letter.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JOYCE: He could not even get the minister to write the letter. We had calls from councils, asking us to bring it up in the House of Assembly because the member was too ineffective to get the letter from the minister, and everything is rosy. Everything is just rosy in the town. Everything is just rosy.

We hear, today, the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture saying: Oh, we can't go talking what-ifs. We can't go talking what-ifs. Guess what, Mr. Speaker? When the Leader of the Opposition, the Government House Leader, right here, the Member for Twillingate & Fogo, back in December, was talking about the cutbacks coming from FPI down on the Burin Peninsula, what did the minister say? Oh, he is just fearmongering. Oh, he is just out putting people at unrest. He should not be doing that.

The Member for Twillingate & Fogo was saying: Well, let's make a plan. We know it is coming. Don't you go fearmongering down there. It is Christmas. Don't go doing that to people down there. Guess what? Guess what? There are 1,200 people laid off and the minister is back there now saying: Oh, we will try to do something with FPI. We can't talk about what-ifs. It was last December when the what-ifs were brought to your attention and we are still waiting. We are still waiting.

We go out in Stephenville now. We go out in Stephenville, and we are talking about the mill out in Stephenville. The minister was out there in Corner Brook, I believe it was Easter Monday, and made the announcement out in Corner Brook that the government had Mo Nazir hired on, or somebody hired on, looking at trying to buy a buyer for the mill. Did you read what the union had to say?

AN HON. MEMBER: Buy a buyer?

MR. JOYCE: To find a buyer for the mill.

Did you hear what the union had to say? They have no idea what the government is talking about. They have no idea. For two months now, they cannot even get hold of someone in the government to speak to. That is what the union is saying out in Corner Brook, the union, the mill, the mill union. They might have met with them Friday, after this piece was in the paper. They might have met with them after Friday. If you want a copy of what they said, they said: Here they are, out there now, stripping the mill. It is supposed to be done by union work, and it is not being done by union work. Where is the government standing up for union workers? Where is the shoulder to shoulder again of everybody? Why is everybody now, all of a sudden, washing their hands like they did with Harbour Breton, walking away from Harbour Breton, turning around and walking away from Stephenville? Now, all of a sudden, down on the Burin Peninsula, everybody is washing their hands, walking away from the Burin Peninsula, saying: Oh, no, no, FPI has bad management.

Did that just happen all of a sudden, that FPI has bad management? Where were they when they were trying to change the ownership to 15 per cent? The former Minister of Fisheries, before he got the boot out because of the raw material sharing, where was he when he was on the committee? Every day, the minister - he is not a minister - the Member for Bonavista South, who should be a minister, where was he when we were going around with the hearings, every day, that it should not change? There should not be a 15 per cent share. It should not change. They should keep it. They should kick them out of the Province.

What happened? What changed it? I asked the Minister of Transportation and Works, remember when the Premier was down in Marystown, what he said? How he is adamant against it; they should not change the 15 per cent ownership. It should not change. It should stay here in Newfoundland and Labrador. What changed? What has changed? There are 1,200 people down there now out of work. What are we doing about it? Absolutely nothing, but once again we are going to take this and try to pass it off to something else.

Mr. Speaker, I know my time is near and I just want to clarify a statement that I made in the Estimates to the Minister of Tourism. In the Estimates, I brought up that the Arts and Culture Centre in Corner Brook cannot hold provincial tournaments. The information that I received was not true; it was the college. So, the statement that I made in the Estimates was not true. The information I was given was false, and I just want to clarify that to you and your staff, that at the Arts and Culture Centre they can have provincial tournaments. It was the college that cannot. I pass that on to the minister, because I did bring that up in the Estimates as a concern expressed to me.

Mr. Speaker, thank you for the time. I will be back on the Budget again. There is lots more to talk about, smoke and mirrors, in the Budget, and I thank you for the opportunity.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I listened with a great deal of interest, believe it or not, to the Member for the Bay of Islands this afternoon. It is one of those rare occasions when I find myself compelled to listen to what he has to say.

AN HON. MEMBER: You were spellbound.

MR. TAYLOR: I was spellbound, I say, Mr. Speaker. I was spellbound, no doubt.

Mr. Speaker, the Member for the Bay of Islands was wondering about what-ifs. He talked about the fishery, he talked about roads, he talked about weigh scales or former member -

MR. E. BYRNE: What if they had put $60 million into roads?

MR. TAYLOR: Yes, what if they had put $60 million into the provincial roads program when they were in government, Mr. Speaker, instead of the $23 million they had in the program in 2003? What if they had spent $60 million on the roads in 1997, instead of the $6 million that they spent? What if they had done that? What if, in 2003, they had repaired the weigh scales out in Port aux Basques?

Mr. Speaker, the Member for Burgeo & LaPoile was standing up here this afternoon talking about how we closed down the Port aux Basques weigh scales. Well, the Port aux Basques weigh scales did not operate for a year before we came to government because there was a few thousand dollar problem with it. There were a few thousand dollars required to fix it. So, Mr. Speaker, we did not close the scales. The scales were closed for a year before we got to government. We just officially closed them. They had them unofficially closed. They did not weigh a truck on the Port aux Basques scales for a year before we closed them down.

Now, Mr. Speaker, what if they had spent the $5,000 or $6,000 and repaired the scales and kept them open? If they saw such value in the weigh scales at Port aux Basques, in the inspection station at Port aux Basques, surely it was worth spending $5,000 or $6,000 to capture some of those 170-odd thousand trucks that pass by there every year. Those are the kinds of what-ifs they should be asking themselves. What if the Member for the Bay of Islands had ever made it into Cabinet? Now, isn't that a scary thought.

Mr. Speaker, I listened also to the Member for Burgeo & LaPoile talking about the provincial government's decision to increase ferry rates in the Province. He contends that was at odds with our position that we have outlined to the federal government on the Marine Atlantic service from North Sydney to Port aux Basques. Well, Mr. Speaker, I say once again: What if the federal government were subsidizing the service across the Cabot Strait to the tune that the provincial government is subsidizing the ferry service throughout Newfoundland and Labrador? We subsidize our ferry service somewhere around 87 per cent. Somewhere around 87 per cent of the cost of running vessels in this Province is borne by the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, and only about 13 per cent of the cost associated with travel on our vessels and shipping goods on our vessels is borne by the people who actually use it. That is a fact.

Compare that with the federal government's position. What is the federal government's subsidization rate? I cannot give the exact number but it was somewhere in the -

AN HON. MEMBER: Fifty (inaudible).

MR. TAYLOR: Fifty-seven. I was going to say around 60 per cent. Fifty-seven per cent is what the federal government subsidizes the Marine Atlantic service to this Province.

Mr. Speaker, our position is not at all at odds. Our position to the federal government and our position on our provincial ferries are not at all at odds with each other.

I say furthermore, Mr. Speaker: What if the provincial government had, as a government, prior to 2003 - I listened to the Member for the Bay of Islands talking about our depots, talking about the condition of our equipment, talking about the condition of our snowplows and what have you.

MR. E. BYRNE: How much did they spend?

MR. TAYLOR: The Member for Kilbride and the Minister of Natural Resources said: How much did they spend? How much did they spend on vehicle acquisition when they were in government? Mr. Speaker, I believe the number when we took over was about $3 million. Three million dollars is what they spent on vehicle acquisitions. As a result of that $3 million expenditure or lack thereof, we find ourselves with a very aged fleet of snowplows in this Province.

What did we do since we took over government? Even when we did not have much money, we increased it. We increased it last year to $6.5 million, and this year, Mr. Speaker, we have it up to $10 million. What if they had done that? What if they had figured out a way of getting a better deal out of the federal government? They talked today about how great it is to have $70-a-barrel oil and how lucky we are. Well, Mr. Speaker, if we did not have a new deal on the Atlantic Accord, it would not matter if it went to $1 million a barrel.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: If we were still operating under the regime that they operated under, the $71, $72 and $75-a-barrel oil would be coming in through one side of the ledger, Mr. Speaker, and going out the other side of the ledger to the federal government, which was what was happening prior to 2005.

Mr. Speaker, yes, we are in a very good position right now, I would say. We are in a very good financial position compared to where we were a couple of years ago, but it has very little to do with $70-a-barrel oil on its own. It has everything to do with the renegotiated Atlantic Accord that we have been able to capture the money from the $70-a-barrel oil.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: If they were still in government, Mr. Speaker, it would still be coming in, we would still be in the poor house, we would still have $70-a-barrel oil today and we would still have the federal government clawing back the bulk of it just like they were when they were in government.

As the result of the negotiations by the Premier and the Minister of Finance and this government, we are in the position today where we have been able to pay down $2 billion on the Teachers' Pension Fund. We are in a position now, Mr. Speaker, where as a result of paying down that $2 billion on the Teachers' Pension Fund we will realize about $180 million a year in saving forever. What would they have done? I suspect they would do the same thing as they did with Term 29, when they took the $8 million that we were supposed to get guaranteed in the Terms of Union, Mr. Speaker, $8 million a year forever - and what did they do? They took thirty years, Mr. Speaker, took a ten-year penalty, and they spent the money right away. What did we end up with? Another Tobin deal, another Liberal deal from the 1990s, Mr. Speaker. Compare that with what we did. We got a $2 billion cheque and we paid it down on our unfunded liability. What a difference! We didn't squander it away like they did.

Mr. Speaker, we could go on with those types of things. With the South Coast ferry service, the same thing was done. Every opportunity that they had to do a one-time deal with the federal government, to get a bit of quick cash, they took the quick cash and squandered it, and we are left with the liability associated with it forever. That is the difference in approach. When we said there was going to be a new approach when we took over government in 2003, when we campaigned in 2003, that is the new approach we were talking about, Mr. Speaker, investing in the future, investing in Newfoundland and Labrador, so our people and our children won't be burdened with the same debts and liabilities that our generation has been burdened with right now.

Mr. Speaker, I am going to move off that a little bit now, and just about: As a result of being able to be in a better fiscal position, as I said earlier, we have a $60 million provincial roads program this year, up from $22 million when we took over government. We have $10 million being put into heavy equipment acquisition, up from $3 million when the hon. members opposite were in government, Mr. Speaker. We have $2.2 million - I hear them all the time lately. The Member for Grand Falls-Buchans, for the love of God, said in a press release last week I believe it was, within the last couple of weeks anyway, that because I didn't approve funding for the Buchans highway it was another kick in the guts, essentially is what she said, for rural Newfoundland and Labrador. Well now where, in the name of God, does she think we are spending $60 million on roads this year?

I will tell the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans, that the money that is being spent in her district this year is a whole lot more than was spent in my district, when I was in Opposition, by you. I can tell you that right now.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: The year that I was elected, you replaced three culverts in my district, Mr. Speaker. The year after that, Mr. Speaker, there was $450,000 spent in my district, and $450,000 spent in the St. Barbe District, $900,000 on the whole Northern Peninsula Highway, to access three World Heritage Sites at Gros Morne, L'Anse aux Meadows and Red Bay, a National Site in Port au Choix, access into Labrador, the Big Land, Mr. Speaker, and that was what was spent. The year of the election, do you want to know what was spent in my district in 2003? Zero, not one plug nickel, Mr. Speaker, not a copper. What were they doing?

When I got elected, Mr. Speaker, we were told by the government of the day that the people on the Northern Peninsula were going to suffer for what they did. So they did, Mr. Speaker, they did suffer for a couple of years.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, they are getting it back now. Right now, Mr. Speaker, there is $8.5 million being spent on the Northern Peninsula Highway this year to replace three bridges that are falling down and to get the tourism industry, the fish plant operators, the travelling public, a decent road that was withheld from them as a result of political patronage in 2001, 2002 and 2003.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, if you people had only treated my district half as good as the $1.2 million that we are spending in Fogo this year, and the $1.2 million that we are spending in Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune, Mr. Speaker -

MR. JOYCE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

The hon. Member for the Bay of Islands, on a point of order.

MR. JOYCE: I say to the minister, I was not in Cabinet but you can ask your colleague, the Member for Baie Verte, how many times I went to bat, so don't you ever go saying that I, as one member over here, would discriminate against somebody over there on a safety reason. That is just not true and you should be ashamed of what you are saying.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Member for Bay of Islands did not have the opportunity to discriminate against anybody because he did not make it to the Cabinet table and, as a result of that, he was not able to make the decisions on where money was going to be spent.

As I was saying, Mr. Speaker, the $600,000 that is being spent in Grand Falls-Buchans is more than was spent any year -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) the Trans-Canada Highway!

MR. TAYLOR: What is wrong with the Trans-Canada Highway?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TAYLOR: So, we should not be spending money on the Trans-Canada Highway, Mr. Speaker. What foolishness!

MS THISTLE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, the amount that the minister is referring to is work on the Trans-Canada Highway that serves the entire people of this Province and the people who are visiting. There is no money being spent on the Buchans Highway. Clarify it!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

MR. TAYLOR: Oh my, oh my, oh my. Mr. Speaker, it hardly bears responding to, but I suppose I have to. I suppose I have to. I mean, $600,000 on the Trans-Canada Highway, what is wrong with that? I suppose if you took that logic, Mr. Speaker, you would not spend $4 million on the Northern Peninsula Highway, in River of Ponds, Parsons Pond, in that area, because that serves all the Northern Peninsula, all of Southern Labrador, and anybody who wants to take a lovely drive up to visit L'Anse aux Meadows. It serves people from the United States, it serves people from Britain, it serves people from Germany, it serves people from Ontario, British Columbia, Alaska. My God, we should not be spending money there because somebody from somewhere else might actually get a decent ride over it. What foolishness! What foolishness!

I suppose, if you subscribe to that logic, I would pick up the phone when I walk out of here this evening and I would call Minister Cannon and tell him that the $26 million that we are going to spend this year and next year on the Trans-Canada Highway, as part of the National Highway System funding through the Canada Strategic Infrastructure Fund, you can take that because that serves everybody. We only want a bit of roadwork done in communities that only the people live in travel on.

What foolishness, Mr. Speaker! It is no wonder we ended up in the state that we were in. It is no wonder we ended up with a billion dollars a year, or right alongside of it, in deficits. It is no wonder we ended up with $12 billion in debt, Mr. Speaker, when you had that kind of an attitude sitting around the Cabinet table. It is amazing.

I say again, Mr. Speaker, you hear them talking about the condition of the ferry fleet. Well, well, well. I wonder, if they had spent $1.5 million to design two new vessels instead of running off to Estonia to bring back the rust bucket? They are all champions there now. They are all telling us what we should do on vessel replacement strategy. Boy, oh boy, oh boy. What enlightenment has taken place when they walked across the floor, I must say, Mr. Speaker. All of a sudden, when they got across the floor, now they figure out how we should spend money on roads, what we should do with depots, what we should do with snow clearing equipment, what we should do with ferries. Mr. Speaker, when they were over here, what did they do? They went off to Estonia. Her sister ship is for sale now, if you know anybody who wants to buy her. Probably you should give them a call; you might be able to get her.

AN HON. MEMBER: It was suggested at the time (inaudible) buying it for parts.

MR. TAYLOR: Yes, you would get a deal. Apparently she is going for half the price that the Nonia was bought for.

AN HON. MEMBER: Buy her for parts.

MR. TAYLOR: Buy her for parts.

Mr. Speaker, that is what we were left with, but we have no interest in going and buying second-hand rust buckets from Estonia. Mr. Speaker, we have an interest in building new vessels and that is why, in this year's Budget, we budgeted $1.5 million for design work, and, please God, this time next year there will be two vessels under construction somewhere in this Province. That is our hope, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Two brand new vessels to serve the Island communities along the Northeast Coast, I suppose. I do not know where we are going to put them. I do not know which ones we are going to replace yet. We will figure that out over the next little while, and we will get on with designing, but I can guarantee you that we will not be spending $1.5 million. No, I do not expect we will even spend $1,000 to buy the ticket to go to Estonia to have a look at the sister ship of the Nonia. I don't think we will even bother spending that much money on it. As a matter of fact, I do not know if they gave us $500,000 if we would even take it for the sister ship of the Nonia, because it is nothing but trouble. I agree with the people on Bell Island, it is nothing but trouble.

There it is, the Liberal government bought it. They poured millions and millions of dollars into it. I think we are up around $13 million or something like that now poured into it. What a deal that was. What a sweetheart deal. We have a vessel that is thirty years old, so there is no amount of lifetime left in it anyway, after spending $13 million. If they had spent as much again, we would have had a brand new vessel that would have been good for thirty to thirty-five years. So, half the money is gone, that could have been gone towards a new vessel. We have something that is really not adequate for our environmental conditions. We have to spend more money on it again now to replace the generator, as far as I know. Bow thrusters we have had to put on it. We are going to have to continue, unfortunately, as much as I hate to say it, but we are into it for $13 million now. It is like the old saying, you are in for a dime, you are in for a dollar. So, they went in for a dime and now we are in for a dollar.

The unfortunate thing about it is, we will have to continue spending money on the Nonia for the foreseeable future. We have to keep it going because, believe it or not, you cannot go and pull a ferry off the shelf. You cannot run into Wal-Mart, either, to pick up the designs for one. Mr. Speaker, it takes time, but we are, in a strategic way, working our way through it.

That is what this government is about, working our way through it, not looking for quick fixes, not looking for a cheap vessel that we can cobble together to try and keep people going for a little while. No, that is not what it is about. We are taking a strategic approach. We have committed this year, as part of our infrastructure strategy, over $2 billion to be spent on infrastructure in this Province over the next six years. Where is that going to be spent, I wonder? I wonder, where is that going to be spent? Some of it might even get spent on the Buchans Highway. Some of it will probably be spent in Fogo. Some of it will be spent in Twillingate. A lot of it is going to be spent in Labrador; a whole lot of it is going to be spent in Labrador.

Talk about the difference in the way governments treat districts. As I was saying, what was spent in my district while I sat in Opposition in three years?

MS THISTLE: Check with your buddy, Paul Shelley. He (inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TAYLOR: Yes, you can point to Paul Shelley. So you should point to Paul Shelley.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TAYLOR: I am sorry, Mr. Speaker, the Member for Baie Verte.

Yes, and if the Member for Baie Verte had gotten as much roadwork as he needed it would have been a lot more than $2 million, I can guarantee you that, Mr. Speaker. He would not be left when the Member for Bellevue came over talking to me just now and said that he had the second worst district for roads in the Province. I said, who has the worst? He said the Member for Baie Verte. So, Mr. Speaker, where does the road work need to be done? Of course it needs to be done in Baie Verte. There will be a sizeable amount going to it again this year, when we get around to announcing it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: As I was saying, what is the difference in the way governments treat districts? As I was saying, Mr. Speaker, somewhere in the order of $750,000 I think it was, was spent over three years in my district when I sat in the Opposition; $950,000 I think it is, we are spending to do three bridges in Southern Labrador this year, over in the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair's district. We are spending $1.5 million -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. TAYLOR: I know we do not have any choice. We have to do it, but we are doing it. There is a choice. There absolutely was a choice. People made choices before that certainly was not done based on the need of the infrastructure in the area. It was based on political expediency and political - I do not know what the word is, but anyway, it is not good. I can think of a word to describe it but I do not think I am allowed to say it here, Mr. Speaker.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, $950,000 in Southern Labrador on the Trout Brook bridge, the Pinware River bridge and on the Forteau bridge. Next year we will probably do some road work over there because I know the road is getting deteriorated and the pavement is about twenty-odd years old over there and there needs to be something done with it. Probably next year we will get around to doing a bit of work on it. I hope we will, but look at the commitment that we have made over there, $1.5 million for a new highways depot at Shadow Pond; a new highway's depot out in Lumsden; a new garage in Eastport.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the hon. Minister of Transportation and Works that his time for speaking has expired.

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, just in concluding, I suggest -

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: Yes.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. TAYLOR: Just a minute to conclude, Mr. Speaker.

We are, this year - I believe it is $300 million that this government is investing in the infrastructure of this Province, from buildings to highways to boats. That, Mr. Speaker, is our commitment, and the vast majority of that $300 million is going to be spent in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. I can go on today about this government's commitment to rural Newfoundland and Labrador and I will acknowledge, as will everyone of my colleagues, that there are some very difficult situations, very difficult problems and challenges out in certain parts of rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, I will just speak to Friday. I will just speak to this past Friday when the Premier, the Minister of Health and myself, along with representatives from the Grenville Labrador Health Board, made an announcement in St. Anthony. Now I suppose that is urban Newfoundland and Labrador, is it, St. Anthony? Urban Newfoundland and Labrador. I do not think it is but it, sort of, meets my definition of rural, St. Anthony does. Up to thirty-five well paying jobs for a call centre -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: - by the Department of Health, by this government in an area, Mr. Speaker, where it would have been so much easier and, probably, so many more people would have made a different decision to put it in a place like St. John's. This government did not because we want, where we can, when we can, to make investments in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. We are not able to fix every problem and we are not able to fix every community, but we will do our best to deal with the communities and to make the decisions that we can and when we can.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I sat back and I listened to the minister opposite talk. Sometimes when you do that, you tend to think that they actually do believe that everything is perfect, everything is all well with the world, Mr. Speaker, and everybody here is quite happy and it is only the Opposition on the other side, for the sake of opposing, that actually stand any day, on any issue, and have a difference of opinion. Well, the minister can certainly espouse what he likes and certainly think what he likes, but I can tell him that is not true, and it is definitely not true. He knows, as well, that the job of the Opposition is always to point out areas where the government can do things differently, can do things better and can certainly invest our money to benefit more people in the Province and we are going to continue to do that, I say to the minister opposite. We are going to continue to do that. Sometimes, I guess, you can get carried away up talking about how all monies are spent and how they are invested, but I do not think there is much difference in what has been happening from that side of the House to what the minister espouses that happened a couple of years ago in his own district.

In the Budget of 2004-2005 and in the Budget of 2005-2006, I have $300,000 for road money in my district, I say to the minister. For two years, $300,000. Why am I getting money this year? Because the decision had to be to close down the Pinware River bridge or to fix it. That is the kind of decision that the department was left with and had to face. It is only because of that, that the money is actually being invested. Mr. Speaker, I am not one to look a gift horse in the mouth, and I say to the minister that I appreciate the money that is being invested in my district, and I certainly give credit where credit is deserved. I feel, Mr. Speaker, that with all the money the government is investing in road work throughout the Province - and I am going to tell you, our government invested a lot of money as well, as much as we had to invest. We didn't have surplus budgets, Mr. Speaker. In fact, we didn't have the good fortune that befalls the government opposite us today and the great luck that they have had as a government, Mr. Speaker, in achieving the great royalties on oil and gas. We didn't have that kind of a budget, to go out and invest in the Province, but with the budget that we had we made some good decisions. With the budget that we had, we made some really good decisions in this Province, and we made decisions that ensured the survival of communities and not the demise of them.

Sometimes when I listen to the minister talking about all the money he is putting into roads, it reminds me of a call I got from a lady on the Port au Port Peninsula only a few weeks ago, when she said: We got some money in the roads budget to fix up the pavement on our roads, but the only people using our roads these days are the people who are leaving the Port au Port Peninsula. Those were the words and the comments that the woman made to me. Those were the same words, Mr. Speaker, in a very different fashion that were said to me by a woman in Flower's Cove one day, actually about a month or so ago when I talked to her. She talked about all the people who were leaving her community and moving out of the Province.

I am going to say to the minister, that it is alright to invest the money, the money is there, the government has the money to put into roads and into this infrastructure, and we are glad that it is being done. At the same time, don't kid yourselves that everything out there is hunky-dory and that a lot of these people are going to be around to use those roads, because most of them are not. That is the unfortunate part of it, Mr. Speaker, that is the really unfortunate part of it.

I look at roads in my own district, and I want to talk about Williams Harbour as an example. Williams Harbour is a community that is on an island, Mr. Speaker. It requires a bridge and it requires about twenty-two kilometers of road. All the work was done to have that section of road built and connected to the Trans-Labrador Highway. Yes, they are small in numbers, they are very small in numbers actually, Mr. Speaker. There are only sixty or seventy people who live in this community. For the cost of $ 5 million to $6 million they could have had a highway connection. Even with all the great wealth and the great fortune and the money that the minister gets up and talks about, they have still not become a priority of any sort, in terms of having road access. Why is it? Is it because of where they live? Is it because of their rural society in which they belong? Is it because the government does not believe in investing money in a lot of these communities? That is what I think, Mr. Speaker, because why else would a government, that has so much surplus cash and so much money to invest in the roads in this Province, leave seventy people on an island with no way to get out of it only by air plane, when they can spend $5 million and connect a road there.

Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister, that he might be quite proud of what he is doing but there are a lot of things he is doing that are not so proud, Mr. Speaker, and are not something that he wants to stand and boast about today. Not building the road into William's Harbour, I do not think is something that he wants to stand and boast about.

Mr. Speaker, we all know the climate is changing. These people are on an island. They can only get out of it by snowmobile in the winter, and this past winter there was not enough ice to allow them to get off and on the island. What did they do? They either had to fly at a very expensive rate or they had to stay there completely isolated for the whole winter. In fact, I think you probably know the answer to that. Most of them ended up staying there. Because of the changes in climate in Labrador the ice conditions are not what they used to be, the accessibility to communities is not what it used to be, and it is more important than ever to have a more fixed transportation network like a road connection. Maybe the minister would like to get up and boast about why they are leaving these people stranded and not building a road to their community and connecting them to the main highway system, Mr. Speaker.

I want to talk about what is happening with rural communities in the Province. I was reading an editorial that was in The Georgian newspaper. Mr. Speaker, it talks about how government are defining and developing growth centres in this Province. This is what it talks about, Mr. Speaker. It talks about how they are focussing money on towns that have a real chance to survive and have the potential to build some momentum and grow on their own, basically leaving the rest of them out. Mr. Speaker, I think this is probably the most accurate editorial that I have read in terms of rural development strategy from that government since I have been here. Mr. Speaker, that is the strategy, I believe, in my opinion, and I think the gentleman who wrote this editorial had it right on. He quoted the Premier and he talked about how the government keeps slipping hints all the time and floating trial balloons on this concept. He talked about how the Premier used the term, as regional hubs in this Province. Mr. Speaker, that can only be looked at and drawn upon as a regional hub that will survive, one growth centre that will survive, and the rest of the communities around it will be left to their own device. If that is a strategy for rural development in this Province, Mr. Speaker, it is an absolutely disastrous one, and the exodus of people from our Province today will be nothing compared to what will happen.

We can talk about all of the money we are going to put into roads, bridges and ferries, and we can condemn what has been done in the past and we can talk about what we are going to do in the future, but, Mr. Speaker, the most important thing in this Province today is ensuring that communities survive. I have certainly not seen that from the government opposite, I can tell you that. I have not seen it at all. In fact, the actions that have been taken on the FPI file, Mr. Speaker, are absolutely shameful on behalf of that government, the fact that this company, for the last two years could be out there dwindling and dwindling away at its resources, closing its plants, meeting in back rooms to look at the entire demise of this company, and the government just stands by and watches it all happen, Mr. Speaker; watches it all happen.

I know they will get up and talk about the meetings they had, this one they met and this one they talked to, but, Mr. Speaker, at the end of the day if those things are not working then something else needs to happen. That is what I would like to suggest. I would like to suggest, once and for all, that government take the action on the FPI file that it took on the file with Ottawa, on the Atlantic Accord. Why is it on the Atlantic Accord that the Premier could go out, go right across the country, Mr. Speaker, and take that on with the aggression and the force of getting something done, and at the same time, here at home, when we have hundreds of people leaving this Province with no jobs and no industry, what is he doing, Mr. Speaker? Running around having a few meetings in the back rooms. It is disgusting, absolutely disgusting, Mr. Speaker! That is what I think it is. It is absolutely disgusting that more is not being done!

FPI was started in this House of Assembly and there are members opposite who know a lot more about this than I do. The present Minister of Fisheries, who was around back in the early years, I am sure knows a lot more about FPI, why it was formed and why it was founded, than probably any of us here. Mr. Speaker, what is disappointing to me is why the FPI Act is not being raised and brought to this House of Assembly to have whatever it needs to have done with it to protect these fish plants, to protect these workers, to protect these quotas on behalf of the people of this Province, Mr. Speaker. It happened once, it can happen again. Instead, what do we have? We have a government, Mr. Speaker, that is prepared to see this company dismantled, split up, and passed over into the hands of a couple of business people in this Province. To whose demise will all of that be? It will be to the demise of communities in this Province and the people who right now depend upon FPI, and that is so sad.

When are they going to pick up their socks and take the bull by the horns and go out there and take FPI on just like they did the federal government? When is that going to happen? When is the stop on the giveaway of fish going to happen? When is all of that going to happen? We have not seen it to date and it is not happening right now.

Do not stand up here in this House of Assembly and talk about the surplus cash and how you are investing it, when I know, and others know, that there are many communities in this Province that are really not going to survive today because of the actions of the government opposite. I know you do not want to hear that, I know you are not going to stand up and make those speeches, but realistically it is what is happening.

What is going to happen the end of June, the first week in July, when 5,000 crab plant workers in this Province are out of a job? Where is the rural development strategy to deal with that? Who is sitting around, Mr. Speaker, on the government side of the House looking at what is going to be done in these communities, because there are going to be a lot of them? There are going to be a lot of them that are going to have nowhere else to turn only to their government, I say to the members opposite. Because, where else can they turn?

Mr. Speaker, you might crow, you might laugh, you might shoot little barbs across the House, but the reality of the situation is this: Come the end of June, the first week in July, in Newfoundland and Labrador there are going to be a good many fish plants, crab plants, that are going to close their doors. When they close their doors there are going to be thousands of workers who are going to be walking out on the wharf not knowing where the next day's work is going to come from. I know, because a lot of them are in my district, just like they are in districts all over this Province.

Mr. Speaker, where is the plan to deal with all of that? Is this it, the growth centres in the Province, where you have two or three cities on the Island of Newfoundland and you have a town up in Labrador City, or Wabush, that will be the growth centres for the whole Province? What is going to happen to the rest of the communities in the meantime? What happens to all of them in the meantime? Where does their dependency come from? Where do they go? Do they have to pack it in and move on to Alberta, just like all of the rest of them?

I was in my district last weekend when I saw six people from L'Anse au Clair who went to the airport to get on a plane to go away. The next day three more from Pinware who had to leave. It is like that every single day. Every single day people leaving to go and find work; people packing up their families and moving out of this Province. So, if you really want to do something, if you really want to prove that you are committed to rural communities in this Province, start with FPI. Start with FPI and prove it. Show them who is the government in Newfoundland and Labrador, just like you showed the people in Ottawa when you went after the Atlantic Accord. Why is no one going to get out and champion that issue on behalf of the government, champion that issue on behalf of the workers in this Province?

Mr. Speaker, I will take it a step further, because I am going to tell you, I am disappointed in the union in this Province, the Fishermen's Union; very disappointed in them. I am very, very disappointed in the leadership of the Fishermen's Union today, and make no bones about saying it. I make no bones about saying it because they are the people who should be out there forcing the government to champion this issue on behalf of their workers to make sure that those plants stay open and that those families stay in those communities. They are the people who should be up here camping on the doorstep of the Premier's Office; in and out his boardroom everyday, ensuring that someone is going to pick up this cause and champion it on behalf of those people. But have we seen that? We haven't seen that either. We have not seen that either.

Frankly, I am disappointed, very disappointed, because if you cannot depend upon the leaders in your union to go out and fight for your job when you are a union member, and fight for your plant and fight for your community, and you have a government that is reluctant to do it, who is prepared to sit back and have every Tom, Dick and Harry with a fish business in the Province waltz in with a proposal to break down the company and to take it over, where is the solution in all of that for the long term of these people? It is not there. So, if you really want to prove your commitment, that is where you can start. Start right there. Start with FPI. Stop signing off for fish to go out of this Province. At some point, there has to be a statement made. At some point, someone is going to have to get very serious, Mr. Speaker, about this issue, because there is no end in sight. There is no end in sight. It started with one plant in Harbour Breton, then Fortune, now Marystown. Who is next? Bonavista, Port Union, Triton, Port aux Choix. As we know, the front page of the Northern Pen today, Bill Barry looking to take over FPI's plant in Port aux Choix. And do what with it, Mr. Speaker? Take it over and do what with it? It is a shrimp plant that is employing over 100 people in the region who depend upon that plant. I have been in it a number of times.

Mr. Speaker, what is it all about? Where is it going to end, because I do not see any end in sight yet? Do you know something? I do not think there is going to be an end until the people who are the power brokers in FPI, or who think they are, get everything that they wanted. Mr. Speaker, this started quite a few years ago, back in 1999 with the NEOS takeover. They never got what they wanted then. What happened? In 2002 they went out and put another offer on the table to look at amendments to the act to change the share agreement. What happened at that time, Mr. Speaker? There was a panel of which the previous Minister of Fisheries, the Member for St. Anthony, was a part of that panel and so was I. The Premier of the day, the Leader of the New Democratic Party, the Member for Twillingate & Fogo, I believe, Chaired the meeting at the time, he was the Minister of Fisheries, and the Member for Bay of Islands. Mr. Speaker, what happened as a result of that? FPI hauled their horns back, didn't they? They hauled their horns back when they seen workers by the hundreds and by the thousands in this Province standing up to this company. That is when they hauled their horns back, but it would not have happened if someone did not lead it. The Minister of Fisheries of the day was the one who took the lead and went out and did it, Mr. Speaker. But who is doing it today? Who is doing it today? It is not happening, I am saying to you, Mr. Speaker. It is not happening.

Mr. Speaker, if it does not happen then what will be the result? I think we all know. We do not even have to ask what the result is in a place like Harbour Breton, where you have 300 people out of a job and the alternative is to create about thirty jobs in place of it over the long-term. How does that sustain that community? In the meantime, where are they leaving? We have pictures on CBC of motorcades running out of a community. Now, that is something to be awful proud of. That is something to be proud of. I am not saying that people never left this Province before because they have. They have left this Province before, Mr. Speaker, I am sure many times.

I was around as an employment counsellor in 1991 and 1992 when the cod fishery closed and I know what the impact was on communities. I lived in a fishing community and I worked with these people every single day. I know what the impact was on them, both emotionally and mentally, not just the economic piece of it. Yes, I have seen it happen before and I see the same thing happening today.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the hon. Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair that her time for speaking has expired.

MS JONES: By leave, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave, just to clue up.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member, by leave.

MS JONES: I am just going to clue up, Mr. Speaker, because I know there are other people here who want to speak today. Sometimes I get a little bit upset and I get a little bit - probably yelling a little too loud, but I am going to tell you something, that this issue really bothers me and it bothers me a lot. I do not think that I am the one person in this House who has any monopoly on how I feel about this. I am sure there are many here, on both sides of the House, who share - including you, Mr. Speaker, I might say - the grave concern that I have.

Mr. Speaker, I am going to tell you now, that if you think you are going to close down all of these plants, shut down this industry and allow FPI to walk away to the U.S., or to China, or to wherever, and continue their business and think that this Province is going to be the better for it or that these communities are going to survive, it is not going to happen. At some point, someone has to get their head around that and they have to do something about it. So far I have not seen it from the government, I have not seen it from the union and, frankly, it disappoints me and it upsets me because I think the government should be the ones championing this issue. I think they should be the ones putting FPI in their place today and ensuring in every way possible, not entertaining proposals from other private businesses, but ensuring in every way possible that these communities can survive and that these workers will be able to live and work in their Province, Mr. Speaker.

I am going to sit down and let someone else contribute to the debate.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, before I take a few minutes to talk about - I think it is important to put it in perspective. The member opposite talked about how the Minister of Transportation got up and was patting himself on the back and government on the back and left an impression as if we do not acknowledge that there are difficulties in certain regions of the Province. The minister did exactly that. No government has a monopoly on making sure that in every community, in every region, and in every part of the Province, everything is okay and better each and every day. The fact of the matter is that, when challenges present themselves, the measure of a government is how we respond to them.

I will start with this. The member talked about how she read an article from the Georgian about growth centres, and how an editorial from a certain editorialist - I think it is Mr. Hanratty - who made the assertion and the assumption that this government is only supporting growth centres to the detriment of rural communities.

I beg to differ, and I beg to differ based upon what we have done not only in last year's Budget but in this year's Budget, but hardly, I say, members opposite who were former ministers in a government, who were part of a government, can stand today and talk about how we supposedly embraced this concept of central regions or central hubs only. That is not true; but, for the member's recollection, and for members' opposite recollection, just let me read this little interesting quote. It says: I suppose, from my perspective, I recognize this as the Minister of Industry, Trade and Technology, and previously the Minister of Development and Rural Renewal, that as much as we want to attract investment to rural Newfoundland, as much as we want to diversify the economy, it is not easy to do. It is just not easy to attract those capital dollars to rural Newfoundland. We can look to urban centres. We can look to places like Gander. We can look at Corner Brook. We can look at Mount Pearl. We can look at Grand Falls-Windsor, because it is much easier to interest companies in going to these parts of the Province, but if you are looking at Lord's Cove, if you are looking at Lamaline on the Burin Peninsula, if you are looking at Point May, they are not going to go there - this minister said. They are not near any type of infrastructure. The numbers of people they need in terms of starting up a business are not there. Mr. Speaker, this person, former minister, went on to say: But, more importantly, the people do not have the skills that are going to be required to attract them there.

Now, Mr. Speaker, that was - I happened to be the Leader of the Progress Conservative Party at that time, and I happened to be the Leader of the Opposition when that statement was made. It was made by your colleague who now sits behind you, the Member for Grand Bank.

AN HON. MEMBER: What was the date?

MR. E. BYRNE: It happened on April 29, 1998, the Minister of the Crown responsible for the development of rural Newfoundland and Labrador who, acknowledgedly and admittedly, made the assertion that it was only going to happen when they were in government in growth centres like Mount Pearl, Gander, Grand Falls and Corner Brook.

Well, we have not accepted that notion, thank you very much, and we have not accepted it for a number of reasons. When you look at the statement that was made by that former government, it says they are not near any type of infrastructure. I can guarantee you, in1998, they were not; but, if you look at this year's Budget, and the amount of the infrastructure strategy that was put forward by the government, through the Department of Transportation and Works, $2 billion over the next six years, in excess of $300 million a year, where is that being spent? It is being spent on infrastructure into rural communities, in every nook and cranny of Newfoundland and Labrador, I might emphasize.

Do you know why it is being spent, and do you know why we took the time up front to put a strategy in place? Because, unlike the former Administration, we know - we do not think about this; we know this to be true - that we have no opportunity to attract investment from companies or the private sector. We will not have any reasonable chance of attracting investment unless the necessary and up-to-date type of infrastructure is in play for rural communities.

That is the difference, a fundamental difference, between the approach that people in the Province said no to and the approach that they have embraced in this government: strategic planning, strategic thinking.

The Leader of the Opposition might laugh, but he was not part of a government that put $2 billion alone in infrastructure, I can tell you, over six years. I can tell you that. We have just announced it, $300 million this year, $2 billion over the next six years. I know it is hard to swallow for you, but, whether you like it or not, it was announced that it was going to be paid for.

The fact of the matter is this: The member talks about everybody leaving. There is nobody in this House, I suspect, certainly not me, certainly not my colleagues, and certainly not the Premier of the Province, that gets up each and every day, goes to work, as members of a government, members of a Cabinet, to play for what? To ensure that we can see more stories on CBC or NTV from places like the Burin Peninsula so we can move more people out?

To listen to members opposite, we are all over here participating in some conspiracy to try to ensure that rural Newfoundland and Labrador does not exist. I take exception to that, and every member on this side takes exception to that.

The member talks about people leaving when she was an employment counselor in 1991. Let's forget about the cod moratorium period. Let's not talk about when you were a member, I say, Mr. Speaker, or when you were an employment counselor. Let's talk about when you were a member in this House, from 1996 to 2000 when 59,980 people left, according to Census Canada, in five years. We have not witnessed in the last three years even a fraction of those out-migration numbers. In five years, from 1996 when that member was a member of this Legislature, a member of the government and a member and a minister in the Crown, between 1996 and 2000, four-and-a-half years, 59,982 people, according to Census Canada, got up and left the Province. We talked about it then. To try to leave an impression that members on this side of the House, that that is exactly what we are playing for, is absolute nonsense.

Now let's look at some of the investments that we made. I want to talk about those and I want to talk about some of the challenges that the member has raised also. She talked about: What are we going to do at the end of June or July when a number of crab plant workers are going to be out of work? It is a legitimate question and a very serious one. There is not a member in this House today who can tell anyone, or could dictate or influence, what the world market price for crab will be. If the member has the answer to that put it on the table and we will put you on our shoulders and we will waltz you around the Province as the best economist ever in Newfoundland and Labrador. If you can square that circle for the members of this House and for crab plant workers, that the market itself has collapsed and that somehow it is a direct result of the actions or lack of actions of this government, then I will sit down and let you do it. If you can dictate to the marketplace what the marketplace will pay for a pound of crab, then stand up. If you can do that -

MS JONES: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: I listened to the member in earnest. I provided her that courtesy and I sat down and listened to it. I have an absolute right to respond, because the fact of the matter is not a single person in this Legislature can dictate the price of what the market will bear for crab. Now we are going to be left with a potentially difficult situation.

MR. TAYLOR: We cannot stop crab for moulting.

MR. E. BYRNE: No, we cannot stop crab for moulting. The Minister for Transportation and Works is right, but we have an obligation to forecast and to plan, to the extent that is possible, on what potentially will happen, and we are doing that. The government is doing that, members of caucus are doing that, to try to mitigate - because of an anomaly in this year, because of the price of crab and what it is fetching in the marketplace, we are going to have some difficult circumstances with people, and we have an obligation to the people. That is one we will live up to, to the best of our ability, and that is the fact of the matter.

Mr. Speaker, when we responded, for example, to the Member for Bellevue's District when we were early in government, when we never had the financial wherewithal to do some of the things that we have been able to do in a very rural district, what did we do when that plant was in trouble? My colleague, the Minister of Transportation and Works, who was the Minister of Fisheries at the time, and Cabinet and caucus, we anted up, we bought the quota. An unusual move for a Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to actually buy a fish quota, but a very sound decision.

MR. SULLIVAN: First time ever.

MR. E. BYRNE: It was the first time ever in our history.

MR. SULLIVAN: The same year before we did it, the Leader of the Opposition allowed transfers of quotas to go out of the Province.

MR. E. BYRNE: I am going to get to that.

My colleague, the Minister of Finance, just made an excellent point, and it is the second point I am going to make. The first time that a government in our history since Confederation actually bought a fish quota. We became the owner of a quota of a resource. What did that do for us? I know what it did for the people who worked on that plant in Bellevue.

Here is the difference: The year before, as the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board correctly pointed out, when faced with a similar circumstance, that government allowed quota to be transferred outside the Province. To make the allocation - I hear each and every day in this House members singing out: What about Stephenville? Government put a pretty significant offer on the table for Abitibi. I will say this, and every time I get the opportunity I will say it: Abitibi accepted the offer. Did our actions have anything to do with closing that mill? No, they did not. Abitibi accepted the offer.

They will say on the one hand to us, that we did nothing to impact or help out Abitibi with respect to the mill in Stephenville, and then on the other hand, in the same breath and sometimes on the same day, they will turn around and say: Well, you gave too much money to Abitibi. Now, that is true. It is not an opinion on my part. The record of the House speaks for that.

If you want to talk about resource management and what we would do and what they did, let's put it out there. We said to Abitibi when they came to us looking for two developments on the Exploits: There will be no development on the Exploits River that will be approved by this government under any circumstance, unless it is tied to milling and logging in Newfoundland and Labrador. That means, if Abitibi changes ownership, which companies oftentimes do - it used to be Price, I think, then it was Abitibi-Price and then it was Abitibi-Consolidated - we said categorically to Abitibi: Unless it is tied to milling and logging operations, there will be no development on the Exploits. Now, the rationale and the basis upon which that opinion was made is simple in our viewpoint, because if something happens to that corporate structure and they end up moving on, they cannot take the asset that belongs to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador with them.

What did this government do? Lets look at the current Hydro arrangements on the Exploits. Two of them were signed in recent times, when Mr. Tobin was the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador. I ask this question today, as I have many times in the past, were those developments tied to milling and logging in Central Newfoundland and to Abitibi's enterprises, and the answer is a categoric, no, they were not. If Abitibi leaves this Province tomorrow, if Abitibi left Grand Falls-Windsor tomorrow, the power purchase arrangements-

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. E. BYRNE: Just listen to this now. The power purchase agreements that they signed and directed Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro to sign - against the advice of officials I will say, because I have seen that evidence as well, against the advice of officials - the arrangement that they signed is that Abitibi can continue to have those arrangements in place until 2022 and 2032 respectively, making a profit. They do not need to put out a roll of paper, they do not need to cut a tree, to continue to get the economic benefit from that. Mr. Speaker, that is the difference. That is the difference!

If you look at this year's Budget, for example, my colleague has gone to some great lengths to explain the necessary investments that we are making in infrastructure. I think we would acknowledge, and everyone will acknowledge, that the demands, because of the lack of investment over the past ten or twelve years, have been so great and so little money invested into it, that we are playing a pretty significant game of catchup. Even with the money we have invested there is still a big game of catchup required.

We do know this, that a fundamental piece of a vibrant economy and a fundamental piece of attracting business and enterprise and commerce to any region, whether it be urban or rural centres, is the access businesses and commerce have to credible and reliable infrastructure. If you look at what we did today, in this year's Budget, in investments in health care, in investments in education, in investments through municipal and provincial affairs, in investments through transportation and works, this was not an ill-conceived or independent thinking of each other. These are all interconnected investments that we know need to be made because they lead to the type of infrastructure that helps with the assistance in attracting capital.

I say to the member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, when you stand up and quote an editorial from an editorialist or an editor of a paper like The Georgian, or anywhere else for that matter, and then stand up with any credibility and say that is government policy, because some editor has made the assumption that we are supporting growth centres, the facts speak differently and do not support your rationale and do not support your argument. The words of your own minister, when you were the government - nonetheless, the Minister responsible for Rural Development who talks about people not having skills and no infrastructure in rural communities like Lamaline and Lord's Cove and Point May, that Gander and Grand Falls and Corner Brook - nothing wrong with Grander and Grand Falls and Corner Brook and Mount Pearl - absolutely not! - but therein lies where the strategy was for regional hubs; not with this government but acknowledged by a former government.

Mr. Speaker, if you look at the investments that we have tried to make and that we have made, on agrifoods for example, and how that industry is doubling and will double in size over the next three years, where were those investments made? I beg the question: Where were they made? They were made in your district, I say, Mr. Speaker, they were made in parts of the Southwest Coast. Those investments were made in Cormack. They were made in places like Whitbourne. Those investments were made in places like Comfort Cove and Shearstown and places in Conception Bay North. They have been made in the Lake Melville area. They have been made in Southern Labrador. They have been made in every nook and cranny in Newfoundland and Labrador.

I can tell you where they haven't been made. They haven't been made in Corner Brook, right in the city. I don't see many turnips and potatoes and secondary processing going on on Water Street, to be frank with you. When I look at the fur industry that has quadrupled in size in the last four years, the fundamental asset that was lacking for that industry and the rest of the industry for it to proceed was access to more ground and more acreage. I didn't see that government get into it. We announced the largest land consolidation program, the first time ever there was a Province-side land consolidation program by the way. We didn't buy places up around the Avalon Mall or where Sears Canada is located in Corner Brook. You know, that land is not going to be purchased on the back of parking lots in urban Newfoundland and Labrador. It is going to be purchased in areas to provide the type of strategic asset that this industry needs.

AN HON. MEMBER: Aquaculture.

MR. E. BYRNE: Let's talk about aquaculture. I am going to leave that to my colleague, the Deputy Premier, my good friend, the Minister responsible for Fisheries and Aquaculture. He will talk about that, because that is an exciting industry. Not only has it been; it will continue to be.

I will ask the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune this question: How many people employed in your area are associated with aquaculture? About 150?

MR. RIDEOUT: One hundred and thirty in St. Alban's.

MR. E. BYRNE: One hundred and thirty in St. Alban's, fifty weeks of the year.

MR. RIDEOUT: Processing aquaculture farmed salmon.

MR. E. BYRNE: Farmed salmon and steelhead trout. The investments that this government is looking at right now to enhance and grow that industry are pretty significant, but I will leave that to my colleague to explain in due course.

If you look at the type of investment that we have made, for example, recently, in this year's Budget, in silviculture, in growing and expanding the base of silviculture, a million dollars this year, another million next year, and another million after that, that is taking place in rural parts of the Province, but what is even more important is the science and the research behind it.

We are investing in a species called Norway spruce, that has a ten-year turnaround. So, from the time you plant it to the time it is ready to harvest, it is approximately ten to twelve years, the fastest growing softwood species that we can determine. That is a pretty significant investment. We are going to take the level of silviculture this year from 11 million seedlings planted to 15 million. Next year it will increase incrementally again. The year after that yet again, because it is our desire, on the one hand, but equally, if not more importantly, it is our plan, by doing so, that five years out we will be announcing the next twenty-year forestry plan with an increase in the available fibre supply in Newfoundland and Labrador because we made the investments today for that period in time. That is where the thinking of government is, but where is that being made?

The industry that is providing the biggest and best return in terms of jobs in every nook and cranny in the Province today is not agrifoods, it is not mining. It is not the fishery, believe it or not. It is the Newfoundland and Labrador forestry industry. Not just pulp and paper in Grand Falls and Corner Brook, but the integrated sawmill industry in small sawmill owners, in unionized and non-unionized woods contractors.

Let me, I guess, explain our approach in how we deal with some challenges. It was referenced here earlier that we announced the wood supply in Corner Brook, which we did. Generally speaking, there was a cut of 3.2 per cent in the available fibre supply over the next five years; small, manageable, generally speaking. Actually, in some areas it increased, but in three districts there are some significant challenges.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the member that his speaking time has expired.

MR. E. BYRNE: Can I take just a few moments to conclude my thought on this, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. minister, by leave.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The three districts that we have significant challenges on the Northeast Coast: District 4, District 6 and District 8. Why do we have those challenges? The logical conclusion - and there was significant cut, 24 per cent, 18 per cent and 19 per cent. You tack on top of that the partition wood that we cut back on, the hard-to-reach stands that operators, particularly small operators, had access to, that is now not there.

In some areas, in my colleague's area, for example, the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, the Member for Lewisporte, it is up towards a 35 per cent cut in fibre supply. Now, there are those who would automatically jump to the conclusion, why is it so large? We have overharvested; it is not sustainable. That is the logical conclusion for anyone to jump to, but that does not happen to be the case.

Some of the reasons associated with that cut are this: that there are many different value sets today that we are trying to manage on a piece of ground or in different areas. New regulations from environment - and I am not disputing these; I am just presenting the facts as they are - new regulations in terms of areas for protected areas or proposed protected areas; buffers around municipal water supplies; more investment required in terms of the forestry road program to reach hard or more difficult access to wood; certain areas that were formerly in the wood supply that should not have been there because there was nothing there to harvest, that artificially inflated the amount of fibre that was available. These are the sorts of situations that presented themselves to us.

Recently - last week, for example - I met with a group of harvesters, small owners and operators who have, on average, 3,000 cubic metres or less, and talked about the challenges that is going to present to them. One person said to me: Mr. Byrne, I live in a community called Baytona. There are about 300 people in that community. There are five or six operators who live in that community. That is the industry and, if this cut goes ahead, if it goes ahead, that is the end of the industry and that potentially spells an extremely difficult time for the town and community of Baytona.

Now, I understand intimately, and I am aware of what this decrease in the fibre supply is about, but we have committed to working together over the next several weeks, and we have to get to it quickly, in terms of letting them access all of our information analysis to provide input to us. We believe that we have other options available to us, and we outlined that with them. We will work through it together, but on the principle of sustainability, on the principle that we will not overharvest but on the principle that we will harvest to what we can to ensure not only your survival but the survival of the industry in the long haul.

That, I think, speaks to the type of process and processes that, when situations and challenges present themselves to a government, the measure of a government is not to go out and tell people what they want to hear and not being able to deliver. It is my own personal view, having been in this Legislature for about thirteen years now, that the measure of a government is about going out and acknowledging up front that there are difficulties and, where we do not have any magic solutions, saying to people with one hand out, you need to work with us in order to mitigate and to try to solve these problems.

That is what the Premier said today. The Premier talked, in terms of Question Period, where he was asked directly about: Why are you not doing anything about Bill Barry, and why are you not doing anything about FPI? The Premier's approach is the correct one, and so was the minister's when it comes to this issue, that they have engaged communities, the leadership of the union and themselves, and there will not be a solution coming forward unless that group together can do it.

That is the measure of a government: acknowledging that there are challenges, understanding that we have to work together to achieve them, and doing our best to overcome them.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

At least I have one member on this side cheering for me.

Anyway, I would like to have a few minutes to speak on the Budget and so on, and how it pertains to my region and also to the Province as a whole. I think it is fair to say, and not to play politics with it, that this is probably the most difficult time that we have seen in the rural parts of Newfoundland and Labrador in a long, long time. There are a number of factors that are attributing to it, not saying who is at fault or anything of that nature. The fact is, the reality of it, it is there; there is no two ways about that.

In response to the Government House Leader a few moments ago talking about growth centres, yes, I believe in growth centres to this extent, and we practiced some of it ourselves when we were in government. For example, on the Connaigre Peninsula, where I happen to represent, and Harbour Breton is the largest community in the whole district, we needed a new medical facility for the district. The old cottage hospital was fifty-five or sixty years of age and it was outdated, outmoded. I remember being in the hospital at one time where you had a person who was in his eighties passing from this world and, next to him, just being screened off, was a young boy of ten or twelve years of age. That is intolerable. We could not allow that to happen.

Did we take a medical facility and put it in all the areas on the Connaigre Peninsula? Obviously, we did not. We put it in the larger community. I am very proud to say that in the Town of Harbour Breton today there is a beautiful medical facility that consists of chronic care and acute care that is used by all people in the Connaigre region.

There was a time, when I grew up - and many more people my age and younger - we had nowhere to play hockey, nowhere to play any sports or whatever because there was not any recreational facility around, especially for winter months. The Town of Harbour Breton did a lot of lobbying. Churence Rogers, who was a mayor at the time, and many of the other people who were there, said we need one for the Connaigre Peninsula. Where did it go? It went to Harbour Breton, because the people who worked with FPI at the time were even having payroll deductions coming out so that they could pay their particular share of the arena. They raised a lot of money. Within a short time it was paid for and the mortgage was burned. A good job it was burned, because I am sure the community today would never be able to afford to pay the mortgage and to run it as well. So, we did that.

In the meantime, the communities that were outlying, like in Hermitage, Seal Cove, Gaultois and some of the other communities, we tried to improve the roads for these people so that they could come to the growth centre, which was Harbour Breton. We gave them water and sewer for the first time ever in many of those smaller communities so they could have the enmities of life. Also, there were clinics in the communities where the doctor stayed and prescribed cures for and dealt with minor things for the people in the area, but the larger things went to Harbour Breton and from there to Grand Falls-Windsor. That happened, but what is happening today though?

The Government House Leader also talked about communities like Lamaline and Lord's Cove. Yes, but where did they work? They worked in Fortune.

MR. E. BYRNE: (Inaudible).

MR. LANGDON: No, no, no. You were talking about these people. Where did they work? They worked in Fortune. The plant was open and these people had employment. They did not mind driving fifteen or twenty miles to go to work because there was employment there. The same thing happened in Harbour Breton. What is happening in those communities today? There is none. There is no employment in those plants. The plants are dormant.

I was in Harbour Breton on the weekend and I was into Hermitage, the community there. I was talking to a lady - it is serious, by the way, and it crosses political lines. It has nothing, as far as I am concerned, to do with politics in this situation. She said to me, I was sitting next to her at the Lions Club Charter Night in Hermitage: I guess you heard that my husband and I are moving to Alberta in June. I said: Yes, I did hear that you were leaving. She said: Oliver, do you know how much money I made last year at the plant in Hermitage and my unemployment combined? I said, I do not know. She said: Eleven thousand dollars. Now, just stop and think about that. Eleven thousand dollars, total salary, by working at the plant and EI combined. She said: We cannot make it anymore. We have to move out. They are going to live with her sister for a while in Alberta until they can find some way for themselves.

As a Newfoundlander we see people moving and so on, but what really irritated me the weekend was when I saw the paper and I saw a writer in Lloydminister, I believe it was, talking about our people here and the fact that we were stupid, that we did not know things and we are all barbing back and forth (inaudible). I sat for a moment and I thought about it. I said, that is terrible. You have had to leave the Province because there is no work. You have gone to an area where there is some employment and you can find some way to work for your family and provide a better life for them, and you have to deal with this stuff. I am not surprised with that particular type of attitude, but it is not the attitude, in a sense, that we permeate because we are our brother's keeper.

A few years ago, remember what the Premier of Alberta said, Premier Klein, when we had the National Energy Plan that Trudeau, I think, put in place and that somehow it was going to level the playing field across the country? What was his comment? Let the bastard's freeze. And Harper, the present Prime Minister, when he was Leader of the Opposition - I am not sure if he was Leader of the Opposition but I know it was around that time - he looked at people in Newfoundland and Labrador, and said: Oh, that is their culture. That is defeatist. They only want to work for a few weeks and whatever and draw pogey for the rest of the year. That is the type of attitude that has been given to us. I think that is terrible.

In fact, I heard only recently where a young fellow had gone to Alberta to work, he took so much of the criticism and barbs about the stupid Newfie, do you know what? He had to come home. He could not take it anymore. He said: I would have had a mental breakdown if I had to stay there. That irritates me and I am sure that irritates every person in this Legislature and it irritates every person who is out there in the rural parts of the Province. That is not fair, but that is what is happening. Really, it is not only the Margaret Wentes of the world who writes things about us. It is the attitude that we are being perceived that way, and that is not right.

We talk about the fishing industry and talk about FPI. I have said this in the House many, many times before, but I think it is worth repeating as far as FPI is concerned. In 2001, remember what they did. They decided that they were going to lay off so many people in each one of the plants; so many in Marystown, so many in Harbour Breton and so many in Fortune. The mayors of the time, Sam Synard, Churence Rogers, I am not sure who the Mayor of Fortune was at the time. I know it is Mr. Noseworthy now. I am not sure if he was there at the time or not, probably not. They came together and said: You are not going to do this to us. What happened? It was the galvanizing of support. What they did is they beat back FPI and they said no. Even after the new board of directors: We are going to improve on the situation. We are going to build new facilities. We are going to employee new people. That was it.

Do you know what this time? They did not try the same thing twice, did they? What they did here this time was they pitted community against community. It was done deliberately. They brought in a new communications officer for FPI. They said: Okay, we will pick off Harbour Breton first. That is the smallest community in the rural part of the Province, we will pick them off. They said to Fortune: Don't come to Harbour Breton's aid because I will tell you what we will do, we will give you Harbour Breton's redfish. Do you remember in the galleries here, Harbour Breton on this side, the people from Fortune on the other side? I will tell you what the union did. The union executive met some of our members in the elevator and said to them: You have to vote for the Income Trust, Harbour Breton is dead; two out of three is not bad. Our members said to them: Oh, no, we are not doing that. But that is what they did.

Look at Fortune today. What situation is Fortune in today? They are in the same situation that Harbour Breton was in two years ago. Their plant is closed. What are they saying? Oh, we will give Marystown the quotas. The way they did it, they did it deliberately to deceive the people. That is where, regardless of where you sit in the House of Assembly or in any other community, that is why people do not trust, because they betrayed their trust to the people of the Province. You do it to me once, shame on you. You do it to me twice, it is shame on me. That is what the people out in the Province have come to see and come to hear. It is terrible.

When we look at the fishing industry, up my way the 3PS, the ground fishery. We had people last year who left as much as 20,000 and 30,000 pounds of groundfish in the water. Do you know why they left it in the water? Because it was not to their benefit to go out and catch it because they would have ended up going in the hole. Now, there is something wrong with that. When we look at this year, the situation of the price of crab and the price of shrimp, I am telling you that these people cannot make it.

I saw a documentary where there was a guy on the waterfront down here who said: If have to go crabbing for ninety-five cents a pound and knowing all the obligations that I have, then I will end with about a $42,000 deficit. He said: It is not to my advantage to do it. That is the situation we have gotten ourselves into.

I know, along the South Coast in the fishery, if it wasn't for the lobster fishery, I do not know what would happen. Lobster this year is a dollar less per pound than last year. Look at that. That is a lot for these people to be able to absorb. I am telling you, without the lobster fishery, the inshore fishery on the Southwest Coast would never survive. The lobster pots, in an area I know well, between Sandyville and Seal Cove and up the coast to Pass Island, there are enough bobbers, as they call them, from the lobster traps, that you could almost walk on these particular buoys, probably 2,000 or 3,000 pots in an area. People are so desperate, they cling to all of these things. I feel for them, I really do, because when I think about it personally, I am so thankful that the people in the area have given me the opportunity to represent them in the House. I think about here and the situation that they are going through and it really, really irritates.

I have to mention again about the union. I have mentioned this a couple of times. It is not for me to take pokes at people, I do not operate that way. I want to try to be honest and up-front. I can tell you, I will remember the day, and it will be in my memory as long as I live unless something takes it away from me, the day they had the big rally in Harbour Breton and the union executive was there. They had the big banner across and we had the casket and carried it down to the plant in Harbour Breton. I am telling you, I felt that day, and I still feel now, that the union leadership of Earle McCurdy and so on let Harbour Breton down. They did not do what they could for us. I only heard them a couple of days ago, saying: Okay, Fortune is out, so I have to be concerned about Marystown. In a sense, you are letting these people go, and that is not right either. I think somebody talked about it today. You have to show leadership and at least be able to fight for these people.

I heard a call on Open Line last night. I think it was Jerome Stoodley from Harbour Breton. He said: How come Mr. McCurdy is not speaking up for us? How come he is not doing things for us? How come he is just talking about Marystown? There is a concern out there, there is no two ways about that, because people are frustrated as to what to do and where to go. That is a major, major problem for them. When we think about, as I said, the situation that the people in those communities find themselves in, it is not very nice.

I will tell you my biggest fear. In the outports of Newfoundland, anybody who has been connected to the logging industry - in the community I came from they were practically all loggers, not fishermen. The men went away in March and they came back in July to mow the grass, and they went away in August and they came back in November. Some of them went away on the winter drive and came back. Do you know what is different this time? The younger people are not prepared to do that. The older people were prepared to do it, another generation, but what you have today is younger people who do not want to be separated from their families.

I talked to a young lady in Harbour Breton on Saturday when I was there. She said: My husband is gone away to work and we have to evaluate what we are going to do. There is no way that I can stay home, look after the family, and the person be gone for the rest of their foreseeable life. What will happen then?

Remember this year, I think the line was the other day, that we had 4,700 births in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. I would like to know how many of them were on the Avalon. A major number of them, I would say, because in the rural areas a lot of the younger people are leaving. They are leaving not because they want to, they are leaving because they have no other alternative. They cannot feed their families and do the things that they want to do on the level that they have. That is a real concern for me.

Talking about some of the other things, about road construction and so on. The minister was talking about, I think it is $60 million for roads this year. That is good. I happened to get some of it for the Bay d'Espoir Highway because the road needs to be repaired. In conversation with the minister, $60 million today was not much better than $22 million a few years ago with the price of oil and so on. I think it costs somewhere around $200,000 or more to do a kilometre of road. That is a lot of money; $150,000 to $200,000. That is a lot of money. A few years ago it was probably one-quarter of that, so you could do a lot more. The infrastructure in the rural part of the Province, there is no doubt about it, needs a lot of work. It needs a lot of things to be done.

I have to talk on aquaculture because it is in my area and I am proud of the things that have happened, even when I was a member of government myself. I remember one time in Cabinet when SCB Fisheries was pretty much gone under, was in bankruptcy, and we had to pay, I think it was, something like $8 million into SCB Fisheries. At the time, I am sure that many people thought it was not a good thing to do, but I considered it to be a good thing to do. I think, even today, we are reaping some benefits of that, and I am sure that the government will continue to do so.

In a little small community called Boxey, in the area that I represent, the fellow there is starting to build some thirty cages for Cook's aquaculture. There will be new people employed that will be able to carry that even farther. To be honest with you, I would like to see 1,000 or 2,000 jobs in aquaculture. Even so, in Hermitage, a small community, they were doing some work there over a little while, doing the salmon, the aquaculture in the plant in Hermitage. I think they did something like 60,000 pounds, but there are not a number of jobs involved. That is one of their concerns. If you could build the industry where you can have a year-round industry, then obviously it would be great.

In St. Alban's, yes, there are weeks the plant does operate a year-round operation, but there are weeks when the amount that the people get is very, very small. Let's hope that it does improve, because really, in a sense, when we talk about the people that we represent in the rural parts of the Province, these are our people and when they hurt we hurt. We want to try to find some way to improve the quality of life for them. They have suffered a lot. When you see the conditions that are out there for them, obviously, you have to feel for them, especially when you have people who know that things could be different and whatever the case might be, but it is not and as a result they find themselves having to leave and go to a different province in order to work.

Mr. Speaker, when we again talk about the situation in the rural part of the Province, sure there are a lot of communities and you might not be able to do everything that you want for every community, but I am telling you right now, and everybody in this House really knows if you represent a rural community, that things are not good. I am not saying it is a government that did it, but the reality of it is things are not good. When you go to Stephenville and see the people who are not working there, these were high paying jobs. You go to Harbour Breton and people are not working. You go to Fortune and people are not working. In the Gaultois situation, people are not working. At the present time they are looking for their plant to be open. Then, of course, there are the people in Ramea whose plant has been closed for a while. They are looking for that to be open so that they can employ some people within the community, whereas a lot of these people are leaving, older people, and going to look for jobs.

The other angle on all of that - in fact, I was talking to a guy in Harbour Breton, again, on the weekend. I said: You are not gone to Alberta yet? He said: It is not as easy as what you think. He said: Some of the people up there will not hire any of us unless we have a Grade 12 education. He said: In my case, I do not have a Grade 12 education. I started to work in the plant when I was a young man and did not go to school. These are the situations that our people in the rural parts of the Province are dealing with. There is no doubt about it, things are difficult for them and will continue to be for some time to come.

Mr. Speaker, with that, I will conclude and obviously have another opportunity some time later to expound even more.

MR. SPEAKER (Harding): The hon. the Member for Lake Melville.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it is a great pleasure for me to rise in the House of Assembly today and talk about a number of things that are happening in Labrador, and indeed some of the issues that are happening throughout the Province, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, as I sit here today and listen to members opposite, we all realize that we have our challenges in rural parts of rural Newfoundland and Labrador. There is no question about that, but I will say this, Mr. Speaker: This government, this Premier, and all members on this side of the House, want to look at this challenge. We want to do the right thing. We are not going to make knee-jerk reactions, but we are going to try to do what is in the best interest of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and rural Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr. Speaker. The Government House Leader has outlined eloquently, articulated some of the things that we are doing in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

I want to take a few minutes, Mr. Speaker, today to talk about some of the things that are happening up in my district, and in particular in Labrador. As we look at our history in Newfoundland and Labrador, most of our people have always had to move to find work. My dad, back in 1962, left his home in Holyrood, just outside of St. John's here, and moved to Labrador. He raised his family there. I can say to you, Mr. Speaker, I am very proud that he did that. It was probably one of the bet moves that he had made for his family. He did it, why? He did it because he wanted to provide a living, to put food on the table, and the opportunities were in Labrador. He had spent many years away from his family, travelling to different bases throughout the Province, and indeed worked up in Greenland and some of these other northern locations.

I remember vividly, Mr. Speaker, when he first came home and my younger sister did not know him, had forgotten him, because he had been gone for so long. He had made that conscious decision then that he was going to stay home with his family, and he looked to find a place and a job where he would be able to give his family a good living, and he moved to a small town, Mr. Speaker, Twin Falls. Many, many Newfoundlanders, Islanders, have moved to Labrador, and have had to move throughout the country over the years, not only in the last number of years.

I will just talk about 5 Wing Goose Bay. Some years back, we had a workforce of 1,200 people working in Goose Bay. The Liberal government of the day decided that they were going to bring in alternative service delivery. That 1,200 shrank to 350 or 360, what we have here today. Many of those families had to sell their homes and move out of Goose Bay to different parts of the Maritimes, to other bases in Canada. So, for many, many years we, as Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, have had to do whatever we had to do in order to provide a living for our families, and, in many cases, we had to move away.

When we talk about the fishery, certainly the fishery from my district's perspective is not a huge issue, although I do have fishermen who do live there, but I say to you, Mr. Speaker, when I look at the fishery, and not being as involved as, certainly, some of my colleagues here on this side of House, I can say to you that the way I see it is that we do not have the fish we used to have and we have too many plants to process those fish.

When we talk about the issue of FPI, a very serious issue of Fisheries Products International, I will say to you that we are doing everything we can but we are not in the business of operating fish plants. Government is not in the business of operating fish plants, so what I say to you is that -

MR. REID: Which ones are you going to close (inaudible)?

MR. HICKEY: I say to the Leader of the Opposition, take the smile off your face. This is a very serious issue, a very serious issue, I say.

MR. REID: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition, on a point of order.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the Member for Lake Melville, I certainly was not laughing about the issue. All I heard you say is that we have too many fish plants and I asked you, which ones would you see close?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Lake Melville.

MR. HICKEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, there is no question that we have our challenges in rural parts of the Province, in rural Newfoundland and Labrador, but I will say that the opportunities that we have in this Province - and I want to take particular time to talk about Labrador. It is something that I have always championed and always liked to talk about because, if there is any place in this Province today, the future of this Province lies in the development of the resources in Newfoundland and Labrador.

I say to you, Mr. Speaker, one of the things about this government and about the leadership that we now have is that our policy - everybody on this side of the House - there are no more giveaways, Mr. Speaker. The giveaways are over. We saw that very clearly when the Minister of Natural Resources, the Government House Leader, told a company out of Quebec that the iron ore in Labrador West will be processed in Labrador or it will not be processed at all; because that is the message we have to send to our companies. We want to work with them, but the benefits of our resources must come to our communities and indeed to our people, Mr. Speaker. We have watched for too long the giveaways.

When we talk about Labrador, and the opportunities on the Lower Churchill, this is just a great project. It is a great project for our Province, and I hope and pray to God that we will be able to do it by ourselves, with our own people and our own contractors, in co-operation with the Innu Nation and our Aboriginal people of Labrador. This is a huge, huge project, a project that has been long on the books, and I hope that, by the end of our tenure on this side, that project will be completed by our government, indeed by our Premier.

Mr. Speaker, mining in Labrador right now, the last figures I heard, we are in excess of $50 million worth of expenditure in Labrador this year. I can tell you that some of the companies that I have been watching, that are coming to Labrador, are spending a tremendous amount of money in uranium, iron ore, titanium, precious minerals. All, Mr. Speaker, are going to be further explored. There are going to be further finds, and there are going to be more mines developed in Labrador.

The forest industry, Mr. Speaker: One of the last great stands of Boreal forest, one of the last great stands of short fibre spruce, is in Labrador, Mr. Speaker. The point of the matter is, right now, we must start to harvest that. We must start to maximize the benefits of that particular resource, Mr. Speaker, because either we harvest it or it will blow down or burn down and we will lose that merchantable timber for all time. We are looking at ways and means in which we develop this resource, Mr. Speaker, to the point where we will be able to have value-added to the forestry resources in Labrador done in Labrador. The days of shipping raw logs out of Labrador, I hope, Mr. Speaker, are soon going to be long gone.

Mr. Speaker, the other opportunity in Labrador, certainly, is wind power. I hope, as we develop the energy plan for the Province - and I look forward to when that is being completed - that we can look at the wind opportunities in Labrador through Newfoundland Hydro and their Aboriginal people, and that we can look at developing that great resource that we have there.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, one of the issues that takes up a lot of my time, and has particularly taken up a lot of my time over the course of the last number of weeks, is 5 Wing Goose Bay. I say to the Leader of the Opposition, who has thrown a barb across, your government, Sir, did nothing about 5 Wing Goose Bay. She was on a long slippery slope, Sir, when your government was in power, I can tell the Leader of the Opposition. We know what you did about 5 Wing Goose Bay. Nothing, Mr. Speaker, they did nothing.

This government is taking a different approach.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: This government is taking a different approach, because we have leadership through the Premier's office, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, and the Minister of Labrador Affairs, in dealing with 5 Wing Goose Bay. I can tell you, as we move forward on 5 Wing Goose Bay - and I have some great news to share with the hon. House and the Leader of the Opposition. He probably has not heard this yet, but that is okay. We can educate him, I am sure. He needs a little bit of education from time to time. I want to talk about what is going to happen with 5 Wing Goose Bay. This is a huge file for me and a huge file for the community.

AN HON. MEMBER: Huge for the Province.

MR. HICKEY: Huge for the Province, huge for Canada. Goose Bay is going to turn from an Air Force Base, Mr. Speaker, to an Army Base. We had the Atlantic assistant to the Minister of National Defence in Goose Bay last week for two days where he met with Mr. Babcock and all of the stakeholders in the community, as he articulated some of the changes that we are going to see on our Base in Goose Bay. We are going to go from a wing to a platoon, a Battalion Regiment. We are going to see some thirty personnel on the ground this year, Army personnel, who are going to be coming in looking at the infrastructure. We will be one of four, Mr. Speaker, battalions across the country. This is a great opportunity for the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. This is a great opportunity for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians who want to join the Army because they will be able to do their training at the Army Base in Goose Bay, so they obviously will be closer to home.

This contingent, Mr. Speaker, will be made up of doctors, engineers, medical services personnel, and, of course, the training of army troops. This is very, very exciting. It is very, very exciting for the community of Goose Bay and it will mean about 650 troops on the ground there, hopefully over the course of the next two to three years, along with the support for a UAV squadron. The opportunities here in the UAV technology are just absolutely fantastic. The opportunities here to further that technology to the Province and, indeed, to Labrador are fantastic, and we are working toward that, Mr. Speaker, as we move forward.

We talk about foreign military training. The facts of the matter are very simple, Mr. Speaker.. Foreign military training is something that we are continuing to push to have this marketed throughout the world to our allies. We believe that in time the world is changing, the military is changing. A lot of the countries that use to participate at Goose Bay, certainly are now serving in war-torn places throughout the world, so therefore the resources are not there that used to be there for training. I think we are going to see a change, a change in our community where our community is going to embrace our own. I say, Mr. Speaker, very, very exciting things are happening at Goose Bay when it comes to the military.

Again, and I want to say this for the record, Mr. Speaker, our base was on a downward spiral, it was slated to close. As Prime Minister Harper said in his public comments a couple of weeks ago when he visited our Province here: All of the paperwork that we have seen is that Goose Bay was closing. We saw that very clearly when we saw the $20 million diversification program. Nobody puts $20 million into a diversification program unless you are going to close something or change something. Well, that was what was slotted for Goose Bay.

I am glad the Conservative Party of Canada made the commitments. They made commitments to the Premier, they made commitments to our community and to the stakeholders. I am glad to see that the Minister of National Defence saw fit to send down his Atlantic assistant to Goose Bay to meet with the mayor and to meet with the Citizen's Coalition, to meet with the union executives of different unions on the base, and to take time to view the facilities. I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, he came away impressed. There is no facility in the country that has an infrastructure in the great shape that we have in Goose Bay. I am looking very much forward as we get our troops on the ground and get our base back up and running.

One last point on the base in Goose Bay, Mr. Speaker, is that it will now have an operational requirement for the Canadian Armed Forces, something that we could never get out of the federal Liberals when they were there, something that the Liberals across the way certainly never promoted when they were in power. I am happy that we were able to work with our colleagues in Ottawa to make this happen.

Mr. Speaker, there are lots of issues that are happening and lots of needs throughout the Province, and one of the things that I want to talk about today is health care. Health care is probably one of the biggest issues that I face, as an MHA, in my district of Lake Melville, issues with seniors, issues with drug addiction, and issues with medical travel. I want to say, the sooner we can get our long-term health care facility built - and I am so pleased that our government saw fit this year to include that over $200 million worth of infrastructure is going to be put in Labrador over the course of the next four years. We have been neglected. We were neglected by previous Liberal governments.

I can say, when I listened to some of my colleagues across the way, I just cannot fathom the hypocrisy that I am hearing here, Mr. Speaker. When I listen to members across the way, with the knowledge that I have of how they neglected Labrador and our issues over many, many years, I have to say I am very pleased to be part of this government that has proven once again, not by our words but by our actions, that we are committed to the people of Labrador, to improving the infrastructure of Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, I can tell you that in the future, as young people want jobs and employment - and we are getting calls. I hear members of the Opposition talking about the people who are leaving, but I want to say there are a lot of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, I can tell you, who are thinking about coming back. I have received a number of calls from people from Labrador, and from the Island portion too, who are asking: When is the mine going to start in the Churchill River, when is the mine going to start over in Labrador West, when are we going to see the Lower Churchill, because we are coming back home? Mr. Speaker, there will be many, many Labradorians and Newfoundlanders coming back home when these projects start, bringing their families with them. We are seeing many people retire, coming back home to retire, people from Ontario, people from the Province originally who moved to Ontario. Some of them worked up there as high as thirty year, forty years, moving back to the Province to retire.

It is not all doom and gloom, Mr. Speaker. Do we have our challenges? Yes, we have many challenges. We will always have challenges, but we are doing our best. I think we have the best leadership that we have seen in this Province for many, many, many years right now in our Premier. I can tell you, under his leadership we are not going to see any more giveaways. We are going to ensure that the resources of our Province are for the benefit of our young people and our communities.

It is not all doom and gloom, Mr. Speaker. There are many, many bright things happening in our Province, but it still takes a lot of hard work and dedication on behalf of all of us to make sure that it happens.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

It gives me a great opportunity to be able to stand here today and take part in the Concurrence Motion that is before this hon. House. I want to begin by saying that, as we listened to debate over the last several weeks prior to the Easter break, and again here today, we hear back and forth across the House, I guess, as we are debating the Budget, it seems like when something is brought up, or some issue is put forward where we believe there is a concern or a problem, it always goes back to the former Administration. It comes back to say that we did not do this, we did not do that. We were left with this mess. It is your fault.

I say, Mr. Speaker, by responding to the major issues around this Province, I would have to say that it is not a time to blame anybody. There are major issues in this Province. Many other members on this side of the House, as well as on the government side, recognize the good things that are in the Budget for the various areas. That has been noted; but, Mr. Speaker, as we look at the news from day to day and we see the people around this Province, how heavy of a heart do you have to have to see a gentleman coming on the news and crying because of what is happening in his area? Like the hon. Member for Lake Melville just said, there is no doubt, everything is not rosy, but I say we have to deal with those major issues.

I heard some hon. member mention earlier this afternoon about the former Administration, about how they squandered away the money. I have to say, I am sure there are many members on the opposite side who had new schools, new hospitals, new roadwork done in their districts. I do not think for a minute that every member, on either side of this House, can honestly say that the money of the past Administrations was all squandered away.

I say, Mr. Speaker, it is fine for hon. members to get in this hon. House to be able to pat themselves on the back, to be able to stick their chests out and say the wonderful job we have done in the last two-and-a-half to three years. I have to agree. When we come to look at it, we talk about the Atlantic Accord and the Premier, how he went away to negotiate, and many other people were involved in those negotiations, and to know that we had to see the flag being taken down and crumpled up like a piece of garbage in order to get our point across to Ottawa.

Mr. Speaker, I do not think one individual, the Premier of this Province today, can stand and just take the full credit for that. I have to think back to the former Administrations, whether they be Premier Moores, Peckford, Rideout, Wells, Tulk or Grimes. Each and every one of them, under their Administrations, had something to do to help the groundwork to be laid so that we can reap the benefits that we see today.

Mr. Speaker, they may think that the Atlantic Accord just came about because of this government, the work that they have done in the last two-and-a-half years. Yes, the agreement was signed, the cheque was passed over under this Administration, but, let me assure you, there were a lot of other people who were involved to lead to this point.

We talk about the good things, Mr. Speaker, in the Budget. We heard others talking about what did not happen, but let's look at the reality side of it. I want to look at an issue in my district that covers the District of Trinity-Bay de Verde, the District of Carbonear-Harbour Grace, the District of Port de Grave, and the District of Harbour Main-Whitbourne and, yes, even into the Placentia area, and that is a long-term care facility.

I want to take you back to 2000-2001 where a provincial study was done. That area was top on the list to have a long-term care facility, and last year, during the Estimates in 2005, I was advised that the four areas that were told to me that were top of the list were: Corner Brook, Clarenville, Happy Valley-Goose Bay, and the other two who were next in line were CBN and St. John's. I questioned: How could an area be moved from number one down to number four or five? I could not get any answers at that time from the minister or from the staff of that department.

This year, Mr. Speaker, when the Budget came out, funding was announced for Corner Brook, Clarenville and Happy Valley-Goose Bay. I do not have a problem with that. Those people need a long-term care facility as well as anyone else, but this year the Conception Bay North area is now down to number six. We are not even on the list. I asked the minister again in Estimates this year, and asked the officials of his department. I do not know if there was a new assessment done, that our area does not have the need there. I cannot get the answers. Now we hear the list is Corner Brook, Clarenville, Happy Valley-Goose Bay, Lewisporte and St. John's.

I have no problem with Lewisporte being on the list. If they have needs, yes, they should be considered, but here you have an area - and the Member for Mount Pearl is always talking about a vision. I agree with him, if you have a good vision. Well, the people in Conception Bay North area had a vision that there would be a long-term care facility coming in the very short term, and that has fallen by the wayside.

Mr. Speaker, I heard the Member for Trinity-Bay de Verde, in a member's statement a little while ago, saying how she dropped the puck at one of the games in Harbour Grace, and that is all fine, but I have to say to the Member for Trinity-Bay de Verde and my hon. colleague, the Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne, I do not know about dropping the puck but I think they dropped the ball on this one. To know that there was a long-term health care facility listed as a priority in this Province for their area and I have yet to hear them speak out about it. I hope they have, in the proper places, and that it will be reconsidered, but as we stand here today we know nothing about anything that is going to happen with regard to the long-term care facility in the Conception Bay North area.

The other thing I have major concerns about, two or three other health related issues, one of them is doctor retention. I know in the Carbonear area, and the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace can confirm this as well, that last year there were two or three doctors who left that area from the hospital. This year, I know one and possibly two others who will be moving away. For a hospital for the size of Carbonear, and the services that are provided there, and the large number of people who use that facility, I think something has to be done to turn the tide to see that doctors are recruited for that area.

Mr. Speaker, with regard to the general practitioners in the Conception Bay North area, there are several clinics out there and you can call day and night to try to get an appointment, and the people in that area have to make appointments and wait from six to eight weeks to get in to see a general practitioner. What is happening by doing that? The people make their phone calls, they get a message saying you have to go to Carbonear. This is why the Carbonear Hospital is blocked in the emergency area, because of what is happening, and the people cannot get general practitioners.

Mr. Speaker, another thing I was disappointed in this year was the Harbour Lodge. The full floor - I forget which floor it was, but it is the Alzheimer's unit -

AN HON. MEMBER: West 2.

MR. BUTLER: West 2 - has been closed out completely.

You have to have a bit of compassion. When you have residents calling you in their sixties and seventies saying that my wife is going to be transferred to Placentia, my wife is going to be transferred to St. John's and they have no means to get to see them. I think, Mr. Speaker, that the government has to take another look at this because health care - I know we are only about an hours drive from St. John's but there are many issues that was offered at the Carbonear hospital, a lovely facility, and the people there, I can assure you, are stressed to the limit with the workload that they have. I believe this has to be looked into.

Mr. Speaker, the other thing that really concerns me, and it comes to the fishery. I know a lot of members have already stated that the fishery is not all that high on the priority list, I guess, in their districts and that is true, but I have to say, in my district - and I guess we are fairly fortunate. We have three or four or five communities there that are very active when it comes to the fishery. Port de Grave, in particular, a tremendous amount of activity happening but, Mr. Speaker, I think back to when we came to this hon. House last fall, I guess it was during the session, when the debate was ongoing about FPI and the legislation and the selling of the marketing arm and so on. My hon colleague on this side from Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune mentioned it here earlier today, and I can honestly say that what he said is correct because I was one of the individuals who was met by people of that union saying that I had to vote for that proposal at that time, because two out of three was not bad. Mr. Speaker, I have to say that for us to be here in this hon. House, to be coached one way or the other and to know that this is what was stated to us and to know what devastation it was going to have on Harbour Breton. Sure, members on both sides voted for it because they thought what was coming down would be more beneficial to their communities.

The Member for Grand Bank voted for it, and rightly so, because her communities were being affected. But, Mr. Speaker, I guess the telling point of it all was when the Premier came into this hon. House, the legislation was put forth by the government, came into this House and stated very clearly that he could not vote for it because he felt that there were so many loopholes, there were so many areas that were not signed off on that he thought was proper and fitting. Mr. Speaker, he voted against it with us on this side. Mr. Speaker, I think that is very telling. If the Premier really felt at the time that what he was doing was right and proper, I believe that the legislation should have been lifted from the floor of this hon. House of Assembly and brought forth at another point in time, if his expertise thought that it should not go through at that time.

Mr. Speaker, many other members have mentioned what is happening around this Province when it comes to the fishery. Some of the smaller areas, I guess, have not been so lucrative over the years. We always had a downturn in the fishery from season to season. I have to say, in the area of Conception Bay North, we have been fairly fortunate. This year I see things happening that I never thought I would see. You see advertisements in the papers looking for people to go to work in the crab plants. I never saw the like before. You see ads on television looking for deckhands to go working on the boats. The hon. Opposition House Leader just asked, why? The reason is because of what happened with the Raw Material Sharing. I guess the turmoil that was created in the fishing industry created people to have to leave this Province. They left last year when the fishing season was over because they all had very poor seasons, the deckhands. Many of them went away. When they returned this year, Mr. Speaker, what did they do? They had their families taken with them. I know people in my area who cannot get people to go fishing as deckhands with them, not all over, but I know of two incidents where what they are doing today - the two fishing crews have come together to use their two boats and their two quotas because they cannot get workers to go on their boats.

Mr. Speaker, it is not easy, as someone mentioned earlier, to have to leave their Province and go away. Those people who go out west, sure, they are probably making big bucks but they do not want to be out there, Mr. Speaker. I can assure you, when this fall comes, I hate to think what is going to happen. I do not want to preach doom and gloom, but if the fishing industry, the way it is going today, the prices that they are getting for their crab - and I am not blaming the price of the crab on the people opposite. The markets are probably dictating it at this time, but the people who work in the plants, the harvesters themselves, I can assure you, they are in for a very rough season. When we size it up and know what is happening in the fishing industry, to me, Mr. Speaker, I believe that there has to be a plan in place. People talk about what is happening in Stephenville, whether it is Harbour Breton or Fortune and maybe tomorrow, I hope not, Bonavista and Marystown. Mr. Speaker, I hope government has a plan. I have not seen it laid out yet where, hopefully, everything will turnaround and those people will be able to come on television, rather than crying and saying: I have to leave my families to go out west, that they will be able to say that there is something going to happen in my area.

Mr. Speaker, I think my time has run out now and we are supposed to adjourn at this point in time. Unless I can have leave for a couple of seconds? I will finish up and will not, you know -

MR. E. BYRNE: (Inaudible).

MR. BUTLER: Okay.

Well, Mr. Speaker, I think I will leave it at that now. I covered the points that I want to cover but I seriously have to say that I believe that what is happening in the fishery today is crucial to this Province. The oil development, we all know the riches that have come from it. But, to me, the backbone of this Province will always be - and I hope that rural Newfoundland, even though they are going through a difficult time, more has to be done with the way of life of those people and that is directly tied to the fishing industry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think, by agreement, we are about to recess the House until 7 o'clock tonight for supper. Before we do, I just want to move - again, not to say that we going to tomorrow, but just in case we want to, move according to Standing Order 11 -

MR. BARRETT: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: Like I said to the Member for Bellevue, it does not mean that we going to but if we need the option to get through some stuff, that we all agree we should get through, then we will do it.

To move, pursuant to Standing Order 11, that the House not adjourn at 5:30 tomorrow and further move, pursuant to Standing Order 11, that the House not adjourn at 10:00 p.m. tomorrow.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I move we recess the House until 7:00 p.m. tonight.

MR. SPEAKER: This House is now recessed until 7:00 p.m. this evening.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Continuing debate, the Chair notes that there is twelve minutes left in the concurrence debate on the Government Service Committee.

I do believe that the Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Exploits.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FORSEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would certainly like to take this opportunity to speak on the Budget process. However, before I do, I would like to thank the hon. Member for the Bay of Islands for taking a big interest in the District of Exploits.

Apparently, for fifteen years the previous Administration did very little in the District of Exploits. However, today when he was speaking he took an excellent interest in the District of Exploits but if he is going to comment on issues in another district other than his own, then I would like for him to get the facts straight and of course acknowledging that I do appreciate his input.

Pardon?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FORSEY: However, he mentioned something about a letter. He said that he got a call from a mayor in the district that was looking for a letter from this Administration, from the Minister of Transportation. I would just like to say, that letter was actually delivered five months ago, signed by the new Minister of Transportation, Minister Taylor.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FORSEY: Yes, Minister Rideout was a part of it.

The other thing that the hon. member mentioned, of course, was the forestry office in the Town of Botwood. I do not think he has his facts totally correct on that, as well. I know last year that I was very fortunate to speak with the Minister of Natural Resources, Minister Byrne, and the Minister of Transportation and Works last year, Minister Rideout, and we were very fortunate to keep that service in the district. However, the forestry office is still there in the district. It did move to a new location, because a couple of years ago under the previous Administration, they moved the health and community services out of the building that the forestry office was in and moved it into a new building in the Town of Botwood. So there was very limited activity in this particular building in Botwood. We moved that position to another location in the Town of Norther Arm.

So, I was really pleased to keep that service in the district and just for the fact - for the Member for the Bay of Islands - that service is still being provided. We have a full-time forestry officer there and he issues permits one day a week. He designates one day a week to issue permits, and that particular employee lives in the district and lives in the Town of Point Leamington. So, just for the information of my friend across the way there, that I do appreciate his support. However, when he is doing it, probably he should consult with me and get his facts straight.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FORSEY: However, it was a privilege, Mr. Speaker, to be involved in the Budget process this year. It was naturally the first one for me, coming in on a by-election last year, and I was able to sit in with members, I guess on both sides of the House, and we were able to, I guess, question the ministers on their particular departments. One of them, of course, was the Government Services and the other one was Transportation. I found them very informative. There were quite a number of questions asked by a number of the members on the Budget, but in doing so, it gave us a better detailed overview of what was actually happening in the Province and how a Budget process works, and to support some of what they are saying there across the way about what we are doing for, I guess, rural areas and the money invested in infrastructure. Take for argument's sake, this year $10 million in investing in agriculture and there was investment in aquaculture as well.

Getting back to Transportation. We had an opportunity to review the investment on road infrastructure, buildings, marine operations, equipment and so on, and in going through the district, as I said before, I think that our people were really pleased to see that we invested in new snow plows this year. They operated more efficiently. I never heard too many complaints, not in my district anyway. So that in itself was a welcome addition to the road upkeep. Of course, the $60 million that is going to be invested in road infrastructure this year, it is going to be really welcomed in the Province, but more so I guess in my district as well, because now the tenders have already gone out and the contractors will be getting out to work early this year. With the extra investment in road infrastructure and buildings and so on, and the reconfiguration of buildings, there is going to be more work in the areas as well, not only getting the work done faster but we are also going to be able to have more work for more people in these areas. That, in itself, was a welcome addition and very informative to be able to sit in on these Estimates and the Budget process.

Also, on the Government Services, as well, we had an opportunity to review some of what was going on in Government Services. It was also nice to see the reduction in some of the licence fees and also in the red tape reductions. I know when I was going around the district last year, people said to me, to run a small business now, like a take-out and a retail store and so on, it is time consuming. They get caught up in red tape and also the cost of different fees that they had to send into government was getting a bit of a problem for them. So, this particular Administration sees the need to reduce fees, sees the need to reduce red tape and, of course, we are doing that and it is being received rather well, actually.

So, that process and the Budget process and sitting in on the Estimate meetings was very informative. Like I said, it was the first one for me and we got to find out actually how much money is being spent on infrastructure and in buildings and so on, that this government is spending.

Also, the $18 million that is going to be spent in buildings and maintenance and reconfigurations and so on, last year, I said before, we had to spend money on the Dr. Hugh Twomey centre in Botwood. Going back to what my colleague, or the hon. member from across the way, from Bay of Islands, said earlier about the reduction of services there. I think it was probably about ten, twelve years ago, on the previous Administration, we had a forestry building in Bishop's Falls and one floor, right now, is completely empty. There were eight or nine offices there being occupied by specialists and professional people. They are gone now. That was under the former Administration. We also had downgrading of services in the policing down there, as well. Then, also, I said as per the Dr. Hugh Twomey centre, we were able to invest money in that last year, but this year we are going to invest another $18 million.

So, all in all, Mr. Speaker, it is certainly a welcome insight on how the Budget process works and it is certainly informative to be able to sit down with the Estimates Committee and review all the expenditures, and I was just glad to be a part of it.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to stand tonight and have a few words to say on the Budget. When I looked at the paper recently, the Advertiser in Grand Falls-Windsor, and I heard the Minister of Transportation and Works up today and he said he was committed to rural Newfoundland with all his roadwork announcements. This headline says: Minister says Buchans Highway repairs not government's top priority. That is what that says: Minister says Buchans Highway repairs not government's top priority. Now, this is a government that says they are committed to rural Newfoundland and Labrador. The member who spoke before me tried to bolster that policy. But, Mr. Speaker, I would have to say, they have not given me any clear evidence yet that they are interested in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

The Minister of Transportation and Works had the nerve last week to put out a news release talking about roadwork that was going to take place in my district, the District of Grand Falls-Buchans. He was trying to leave an impression that the government was going to spend money in the rural parts of my district, the District of Grand Falls-Buchans. In essence, what he was saying was roadwork for the Trans-Canada Highway that runs parallel to my district, through the biggest centre of Grand Falls-Windsor and hinges on Badger. He was trying to get up today on his feet and give a clear impression to this House that there was roadwork announced for the District of Grand Falls-Buchans, with the rural area of Buchans and Millertown being affected, but that is totally not true. Because what he is saying in that news release is that there will be upgrades to the Trans-Canada Highway. I use the Trans-Canada Highway. I had to use the Trans-Canada Highway yesterday when I drove from Grand Falls-Windsor to St. John's. So, me using the Trans-Canada Highway is no different than the Speaker or anyone who sits in this House, or anyone who resides in this Province. So, Mr. Speaker, he left the impression that he was putting money in the District of Grand Falls-Buchans, which, in fact, he is not doing.

I said I wanted to talk to the Premier, and now I have the Premier right in front of me. I will talk to him here now through this. The Premier has a phantom Department of Business, you see. The Premier has a phantom Department of Business, one that he never answers for, and not even the deputy minister answers for.

We had an Estimates meeting a while ago, and the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development, she was asked a question: Minister, how many jobs have you created in your new department?

Well, guess what the minister had to do? She kind of scratched her head and she said: Let me think now; I will have to get back to you on those numbers.

Wow, isn't that something? She has 152 staff member that are trying their best every day to create jobs in this Province. Three years on the job and she has to scratch her head and say, I will get back to you. Now, that is some Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development you have there, isn't it?

Now, Mr. Premier, I have your undivided attention. I don't have to make a phone call and I don't have to go up to your eighth floor office and sit in your leather chesterfield and beg for money. I have you here in this House of Assembly right now.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I wish to advise the member that the total time allocations for debate on the report of the Government Services Committee has now expired and, unless we have leave, I would have to call the question.

Are we ready for the question?

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: The member has asked if she can have leave. We are just going to move Government Services, the three-hour debate is up on that, and then we are going right back in Resource Estimates, so if you want to get back up and -

MS THISTLE: As long as you can promise me the Premier will be here so I can ask him some questions.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, just as an explanation to colleagues -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair is having difficulty hearing the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Just as an explanation to colleagues, we have two more Committees to do tonight and then we will conclude, so there will be lots of time for members to have their say on whatever matter they wish, and lots of time for us to answer the questions as honestly and forthrightly as we can, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you.

AN HON. MEMBER: That's it for me.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The motion is that the House concurs in the report of the Government Services Committee.

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, ‘nay'.

The motion is carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

By consent earlier with my colleague, the Opposition House Leader, I would like to move now the Concurrence Motion for the Resource Estimates Committee, and I believe the Chairperson of the Committee is going to have a few opening remarks.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HARDING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I welcome the opportunity to introduce debate on concurrence on the Estimates of the Resource Committee.

In our deliberations, we dealt with the Department of Business; the Department of Environment and Conservation; the Department of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and Labrador Affairs; the Department of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development; the Department of Natural Resources; and the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

At this time, Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the members who served on the Committee: the Member for Twillingate & Fogo, the Leader of the Opposition; the Member for Trinity-Bay de Verde; the Member for Windsor-Springdale; the Member for Gander; the Member for Grand Bank; and the Member for the Bay of Islands.

Mr. Speaker, I would also like, again, to thank the staff of the House of Assembly and also the ministers and officials from the different departments.

I have to say, Mr. Speaker, there were lots of great questions asked and, as well, a lot of good informative answers given to the questions.

I have to say, Mr. Speaker, that while the setting sort of resembles the House of Assembly Question Period, nevertheless it is much more relaxed, much more comfortable, with no media around and no one to look for entertainment.

I have to say, Mr. Speaker, even the Leader of the Opposition acknowledged the fact that there were an awful lot of great answers given to the questions that were posed.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HARDING: I would also like to comment on the Leader of the Opposition's - he made a remark the other day, Mr. Speaker, that I sort of shut him up in one of the meetings.

I make no apologies for that, Mr. Speaker, and the others members here can vouch for what I did, that we were debating the Estimates for the Department of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development and the subject that he brought up was certainly not relevant - in any great extent, anyway - to that department, but we were coming up a little later with the Department of Fisheries and Aquaculture when it would have been the appropriate time to bring up questions on the matter that he brought up.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. HARDING: Mr. Speaker, I did give him about twenty minutes, anyway, on questioning the minister, and I believe that deep down inside he was really pleased with the answers that he received.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, on that, I would like to again thank the members of the Committee, the ministers and their officials, for the great answers that they gave.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. HARDING: Oh, yes, I also singled out the Leader of the Opposition. I must say, he did pose a good many worthwhile questions, and he acknowledged the fact that he also received a lot of really good answers.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to finish up on that and I look forward now to the three-hour debate on the departments from the Resource Committee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well, it is unfortunate, I had a perfect moment before me a few minutes ago to question the Premier, but unfortunately he is not here at this moment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member is aware that we should never refer to the presence or the absence of any hon. member. I ask her to observe that parliamentary tradition.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yes, I am sorry I mentioned that the Premier was not here. I overlooked that point.

Anyway, it is unfortunate because we are now into the Resource Estimates and it would have been very important. We are talking about the Department of Business, the so-called Department of Business, or the phantom Department of Business I would think. There has been a budget for the past two years for the Department of Business, but we have yet to have a minister come to our Estimates Committee or even a minister answer any of the questions in the House of Assembly.

That is what this forum is for, to be able to stand on our feet as Oppositions critics and ask the Minister of Business questions pertaining to the Department of Business. Yet, for all of that, we are not able to do it. We are not able to do it.

AN HON. MEMBER: Who is the minister?

MS THISTLE: I would like to know, who is the Minister of Business?

On paper, in this Estimates book, the Premier is the Minister of Business, but I have yet to see, unfortunately -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask members to my left for their co-operation. I am having difficulty hearing the hon. member. If you have conversations that must take place, I ask you to keep them to a reasonable tone or else take them outside if they require lengthy, detailed and loud conversations.

The Chair recognized the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker for your protection.

True, the government members are heckling and I am glad you brought them to task, but in the meantime I want to talk about the Department of Business.

There is a huge budget for the Department of Business in the Estimates Committee booklet. There has been a deputy minister hired for the Department of Business, but still we have not yet gotten any answers from the minister or the deputy minister on what the Department of Business is doing, and how they are spending the money, and what luck they have had in generating new business for our Province.

Now, that is a simple question. No matter who is head of a department, they are responsible for that department. If I were to ask the Minister of Fisheries, right now, he would be able to tell me under every heading in this book that I have on my desk how the money is spent. There should be no reason why the Minister of the Department of Business, who is the Premier, or his designate, which in the Estimates Committee was the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development, there is no reason why that minister, if she was designated to speak on behalf of the Premier, was not able to answer the questions that were posed by this Opposition. So, here we are, three years into a new mandate by this new government, and they are not giving any answers for the Department of Business. The taxpayers have a right to know. They are the ones who are footing the bill for the Department of Business and still, for all of that, there are no answers from this new government.

I talked earlier about rural development in our Province, and that is an area of great concern to me, particularly when I see a headline in our local newspaper in Grand Falls-Windsor and it says: The minister says Buchans Highway repairs not government's top priority.

I would like to ask the Minister of the Department of Business: If you were proposing to have a commitment to rural Newfoundland and Labrador, and you have a gift horse staring you in the face, why aren't you going to acknowledge that?

Here, the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development is out with a budget of millions and millions of dollars. Just the staff alone, she has 152 people employed in Innovation, Trade and Rural Development trying to so-call generate the economy of rural Newfoundland and Labrador. Eight million dollars in staff, that is what the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development is responsible for: 152 approved positions, $8 million in staff salaries. Yet, when ask the question in the Estimates Committee: How many jobs have your department created in the past two budget years? - do you know that minister was unable to give any kind of an account of any job that was created, after spending $8 million in salaries alone for her department, 152 employees?

Now, there is something wrong here. If you are responsible for a department, you have every responsibility and every obligation to answer the question on how money is spent. So, we still do not have the answers to how the money is spent in Innovation, Trade and Rural Development.

Now, under Innovation, Trade and Rural Development there is also an office in Ottawa that has a budget of $400,000 a year.

MS FOOTE: Who is in that office now?

MS THISTLE: Do you know who is in that office now? There are two clerks in that office.

MS FOOTE: What are they doing?

MS THISTLE: Well, that is the question. What are they doing, at $400,00 out of the people's money spent for an office in Ottawa to do what?

Now, when the Premier first appointed Bill Rowe to that job it was so important. It was so important. There was a minority Liberal government in Ottawa, and the Premier had to make sure that he had a representative in the office in Ottawa who was going to speak on behalf of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Bill Rowe, the person who occupied that chair, on one day he was waiting for the next assignment from the Premier, and the next day the news release came out that he was leaving the office, so there is a big mystery attached to that one.

I would like to know what kind of severance was paid to Mr. Bill Rowe in the middle of that contract. How much severance was paid to Bill Rowe? That is a mystery.

MR. RIDEOUT: You don't pay severance to people who resign.

MS THISTLE: Okay.

The Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture just said that Bill Rowe resigned so you don't pay severance to people who resign. Based on what the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture just said, there was no severance paid to Bill Rowe. Now, we will find out if there was any severance paid to Bill Rowe.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MS THISTLE: Isn't it money? Aren't we talking about money here tonight, resource? Resource is money.

We can talk about a lot of things. We can talk about the Buchans Highway, because the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development has a gift horse staring her in the face and she is turning away from it, and so does the Minister of Transportation and Works. I don't know if he has even been up over the Buchans Highway, has he? I doubt if he has. He would not have a clue how to get there, because he thought, when he was announcing money last week for the Trans-Canada Highway, that was up on the Buchans Highway.

Let me give you a geography lesson. When you announce money for the Buchans Highway, I tell you, you are supporting - I tell you, you are supporting rural Newfoundland when you put money in rural Newfoundland, but when you are putting it on the Trans-Canada Highway, that is Doug House's plan, remember?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS THISTLE: He only wants large urban centres.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS THISTLE: Yes, protect me again, Mr. Speaker, because they are -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

I am sorry, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, I don't know what the government crowd had for supper tonight, but they are pretty antsy. They probably never had fish, it was probably chicken catchatori.

Anyway, what we have been talking about is government's lack of commitment to rural Newfoundland and Labrador, not government's commitment. If you look back over the past two budgets you will see that most of the money that was spent, was spent in urban centres.

I had an e-mail on my blackberry over the weekend. It was from a constituent -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) one?

MS THISTLE: Numerous e-mails. All you can do is keep ahead of them.

I had an e-mail from a constituent of mine, and you are talking about health care. Well, there is plenty of money for health care. With the agreement that was signed by the provinces with the former Liberal government, it gives us roughly $46 million a year for the next seven years. We are already into year two of that agreement.

Now, there is a chemotherapy treatment for colon cancer. I was not aware of it. I may not be pronouncing this properly. It is called FOLFOX. I do not know if I am pronouncing it right or not, but it is a first line chemotherapy treatment for any person that is in stage three or four of colon cancer. Apparently, it is readily available in most provinces in Canada. I am hearing that it does the best job in treating late stages of colon cancer. Unfortunately, there is a constituent of mine in Grand Falls-Windsor who needs that particular type of treatment. Here we are, a Province that has a lot of money right now, after all the bills were paid there was $76 million left on the table. Here we are, not able, at this point, to provide this constituent with this type of colon cancer treatment that might save his life.

Now, that is pretty serious. There is nothing to snicker about. That is a cancer treatment that is required by this gentleman who is in stage four of colon cancer. I do not know the cost attached, but I am sure the Minister of Health, he is listening attentively, and maybe he has the same e-mail that I have because it was sent to the Minister of Health and it was copied to me. I would certainly appreciate it, Minister, if you could look into that situation and see if it can be offered here because I am sure the situation that I just relayed is not unique. I am sure there are other individuals in our Province who are going through the same type of situation, illness, and they need this treatment as well as the constituent I just mentioned. So, that is one area that would do a lot of good, is improvements to our health care system.

I would ask anybody in rural Newfoundland and Labrador: Are you better off today than you were three years ago? That is a simple question. Are you better off in rural Newfoundland and Labrador today than you were three years ago? Well when I look at my own particular district, everyone of us here has a district they are representing, some urban and some with a mixture of urban and rural. I have both, urban and rural. The biggest part of my district is urban. But, there is a bright spot, particularly in Buchans and Millertown area. It is unfortunate that this government has not recognized what it will do for the provincial Treasury.

I would say to the Minister of Finance - which he should have tremendous clout around the Cabinet Table, he holds the purse strings. Although the Premier goes out and spends money and tells the Minister of Finance about it after, on many occasions he would have tremendous clout and so would the Deputy Premier, but to this point they have not gotten the message across. That is very regrettable, I would think. When you take 200 well-paying jobs, what kind of a commitment would that make to the provincial Treasury? I would think that it would provide the colon cancer treatment that a constituent of mine is looking for. It would provide the many hours of home care that it calls for all the time from my district, that are needed in my district and every district throughout this Province. It would provide, probably, a reduction in the gasoline tax. It would provide a subsidy for home heat.

When you look at the fact that the Member for Exploits said he was pleased that the fees were dropped this year, they were dropped by $1 million. Two years ago you brought in 155 new fees that generate revenue for the provincial Treasury of $26 million. This year you said you were doing a good thing and you eliminated some fees, that is $1 million. So, there is still $25 million a year going into the public purse and you haven't reduced the things that people use all the time, which is a moose licence, or a death certificate, or an ambulance.

Talking about ambulances, there comes to light one other thing I want to mention. The paramedics now are into a situation around this Province where government is not realizing the geography that they have to go over, they are not getting paid as they should, and they have a lot of stressful hours that they are not getting paid for, particularly if you look at operators who operate ambulance services outside the City of St. John's. The City of St. John's, they have their own challenges.

The Northeast Avalon has grown so much that the complement of paramedics has not kept up with the growth of the Northeast Avalon. Make no wonder they are protesting and looking for more funds to run their operation. So, it is time for government to respond to those paramedics, but it is also time for government to look at the ambulance operators all over our Province.

What is happening in rural Newfoundland and Labrador now is that with the cost of gas the way it is, insurance and the fact that we do not have the same number of people to draw from in these smaller communities, they are required to be on the job longer hours. Some of the hours that they are on the job they are not getting paid for. They are on standby and they have to travel great distances. They cannot keep their equipment up-to-date. It is a job to makes ends meet when you are an independent ambulance operator. We are hearing that all over the Province.

It is time for the Minister of Health to get out around the Province and look into the situation that if you do not have a first line of security - when you pick up the phone in St. John's, the Northeast Avalon and Corner Brook, we can call 911 and you know that somebody will be on your doorstep within a few minutes. Now, if you are calling an ambulance and you are living in a small community, they might be stretched to the max. Maybe somebody is on a road trip bringing someone to St. John's, or someone to Corner Brook, or some of the bigger centres and they may not have a backup system that would give you immediate service right away like calling 911. As a result of that, it is time for the Minister of Health to get out around, get out of St. John's and have a firsthand look at rural Newfoundland and Labrador, put more money into the ambulance operator system and also look at the fact of providing 911 service all over our Province.

MR. SULLIVAN: (Inaudible).

MS THISTLE: We need to be - what was that, Minister of Finance? What did you do while you were there? Is that what you are saying?

MR. SULLIVAN: (Inaudible) when you were there?

MS THISTLE: Well, do you know something? We did not have high oil prices at $70 a barrel. We did not have a minority government that just signed off on an Atlantic Accord. Don't say, why didn't we - you are the one who stood up in this very place and demanded money day after day; money for health care. You were the one who demanded money for health care when you knew full well we did not have it. We had to mortgage our soul to provide cardiac surgery, to provide cancer treatments so people would not die on the street. You knew we did not have the money. We mortgaged our soul to provide medical services to all who needed it. Then you are sitting in your leather chair there tonight and you are saying: Why didn't you do it while you where there? We did it while we were there. As a result, we went in the hole trying to do it to look after people. You ended up coming in here and had all the luck in the world, and even ended up with a surplus that you did not generate one job to get. You did not generate one job since you have been in government. In fact, you lost jobs. Three thousand people -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I advise the hon. the member that her allotted time has expired.

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, I will conclude now and I will have another opportunity later in the night.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I guess I will pick up where the hon. member on the other side left off and talk about, basically, what we have done over the last three years, but in particular, Mr. Speaker, I would like to talk about what we are doing at the present time.

We look at what we are doing at the present time as a reflection upon the Budget that came down not too long ago. There is a whole litany of stuff that I can go through. As an example: Education, $100 million, 151 positions left in, renewing that allocation, that $9.1 million. We are talking about school buses and fuel maintenance at $5.3 million. We are talking about MUN operating, $32 million. We are talking about CONA operating, $8.5 million. Under innovation, White Paper initiatives, tuition freeze at $16 million, research at $7.5 million. We are looking at leaving $54 million with Hydro so they can further develop their company. The provincial energy plan, $1.4 million. Under infrastructure, $142.2 million in roads, $12 million in maintenance, $9 million in ferries. I can go on and on, Mr. Speaker.

For someone to get up on the other side and talk about luck - this is not luck. This is picking up where a previous Administration had put us so far in debt that we could not see out, and taking that and making sure that we had a sound fiscal situation, which I attribute to the leadership, and not only to our Minister of Finance who brought us through very, very difficult times, who brought us to a place right now were we can begin to build, not necessarily for the present, but for the future.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: We are going there despite what we hear from that side.

MR. REID: (Inaudible).

MR. HEDDERSON: We have plenty of time, I say to the Leader of the Opposition, but time that we use wisely, not sitting back on our haunches. We use it wisely.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: I say, Mr. Speaker, the wise use of time is certainly - but time caught up on some people, as is obvious, by their getting up on the other side and trying to, as desperate as they are, trying to put forward a good face.

We know that we are moving in the right direction, that we are strategically placed. I am very proud to stand here with this government behind me, and with what we are doing as we move forward not only in the resource sector but in all sectors. I represent rural Newfoundland and I have seen pretty lean time, but we have some hope that at least with the strategic planning and the vision of this government that we will move forward.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, let me just take one as an example, because as Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation one aspect of it that I am very, very pleased to present to this House, through our Budget, is a cultural plan, a plan that has been in the works for any number of years. It took this government to take responsibility for who we are as a people, and not only to talk about it, not only to jabber on about what should be done, but we took it upon ourselves to work with the communities, to work with those who are out there, to put forth a strategic plan. Not only did we put forth the plan, but, Mr. Speaker, we put forth the investment that is required to bring this plan forward. I can tell you, that the response from the people out there who are interested in pushing forth who we are as a people, in talking about our culture, in making sure that people beyond our borders understand where we are going - that cultural plan, again, is an investment. It is about creative Newfoundland and Labrador, and it is a blue print for development, it is a blue print for investment in culture.

Over the next three years, Mr. Speaker, $17.6 million is going to be allocated to make sure that we can build up the building blocks that are required in order for us, as a people, to continue to be true to who we are, to be truthful to what we are and were we want to go. Certainly, in dealing with culture, it is not something that is always tangible, there are a lot of intangible aspects of culture because it is truly reflected in not only the 500 years of European influence, but goes way back beyond that to our Aboriginal peoples and the beginnings of their time on this particular continent and in this particular place.

When we look at the cultural plan, I am very, very pleased to say that the building blocks are there. They are important building blocks, Mr. Speaker, because without these building blocks and a strategic direction - in order to get where we were what we did was go out to the people. We put it to them, and during the three years we have been in we have been working very, very closely. One of the first things that we did, as a part of our strategic planning, was in consultation and, I guess, in partnership with the Department of Education, look at the cultural connections.

One of the building blocks is the education of our youth, to make sure that they understand fully from whence we have come and to give them a sense of identity that will help them go forward to where they need to be. The cultural connections were certainly an investment that was made in last year's budget, $10 million over three years. Let me report, as I am sure the Minister of Education can attest to, that it was received extremely well in the schools; extremely well. As it goes now to it's second and onto it's third, the investment will pay great dividends, Mr. Speaker, as time goes on.

The second building block that is most important for our cultural strategic plan is the support that we give to our artists, our creative artists, I would say to you, Mr. Speaker. This is so, so important, because I think everyone realizes that culture is dynamic and we cannot rest on our creative efforts of the past. We must always be assured that we can continue on to allow our culture to change and develop, but its takes creative people to ensure that that happens, Mr. Speaker. One of our investments would be certainly to make sure that we support our artists. We support our artists through the Arts Council, through our Heritage Foundation, through our Heritage Industries, and we do so by making sure that we put the investment there so they in turn can allocate it to the various individuals, groups and organizations to carry on in culture and in heritage.

With regard to the Arts Council, for example, Mr. Speaker, currently they are running at $900,000 a year in operating. Over the next three years we will double that. We will double that to $1.8 million. As people will realize, it is important that we give the Arts Council the operating funds that they need in order to carry out. When we look at the Arts Council, of course, it is pan-provincial, both Newfoundland and Labrador. This Council gets into every nook and cranny of Newfoundland and Labrador where there is an artist, where there is a heritage community. This Council reaches out and is able to fund their creativity, again, Mr. Speaker, to make sure that we continue in the wonderful way that we have in supporting our artists.

A second part of it too, Mr. Speaker, is that it is most important that we look at supporting our artists in a professional manner. We have tremendous creativity here but there are awful demands upon our artists, in music, in art because, Mr. Speaker, it is difficult to go beyond our borders and to distribute our product. So it is very, very important that we take a professional approach and again, this is one of the ways in which we have funnelled out money to ensure that in film, in music and art, in all areas of our creativity, that they can certainly get the assistance that they need in order to build up a professional approach so that our product can go, not only within the bounds of Newfoundland and Labrador, but also without as well. So, when we look at the benefits of what we are doing, again, as a cultural plan, it is important that we be strategic, it is important that we set objectives, it is important that we follow through with the necessary investment. Certainly, Mr. Speaker, we have done that, and this plan will carry forward as we continue to go.

Now, another aspect of the plan, Mr. Speaker, is to, I guess preserve our tangible and our intangible heritage. That is not always easy, Mr. Speaker, especially when we look at intangible culture because when you talk about intangible culture it is those things that, you know, our way of expressing who we are as a people sometimes and our traditions. Look, for example, at mummering. Mummering would be something that would be intangible. Our storytelling abilities - these are things that we need to make sure that do continue as well as the tangible. The tangible are indeed the structures that we see around. We will certainly make sure that we promote those as well.

We are investing. It is strategic and we want to make sure that it does happen. When we look at it, we must also try to come up with ways in which we can protect the infrastructure that is around us and we do have museums, we do have various historical structures, that it is important that we maintain in order to keep alive what is there.

It is interesting, Mr. Speaker, that if we go around the Province today, that it is very surprising that - let's say a decade or two ago, if you were to go around the Province you would have no difficulty in coming across an authentic fish stage. A stage where our ancestors, and right up until our present day, would use to dry their fish, to cure their fish. Up along the Coast of Labrador, down around the Island portion, there was no difficulty. But we have had to set aside, Mr. Speaker, $75,000 to make sure that we can support some of the few authentic stages that would be left around the Province. I am sorry to say they are few and far between, but that is the type of infrastructure that if we do not move with now, we could, very well, lose that part of our heritage. So, the infrastructure.

I also make mention, Mr. Speaker, of the museums that are out there and the collection of artifacts that are in the various areas. We do have local museums. We do have regional museums and we do have, I guess, provincial museums and they are all at different levels of funding. I am happy to report that part of this plan is to review both the three levels of museums that are throughout the Province and to try to bring some sense as to whether or not we are moving along in the direction that we need to in order to keep these, I guess, viable.

The thing about museums, again, some provision is made that it is most important that we look at ways in which we can, basically, look at the interpretation part of museums. Many of our museums - sad to say - have not been kept up with regards to interpretation. For many of us, what we saw in these museums, the esthetic displays thirty years ago have virtually remained unchanged, but in the more modern approach and the more appropriate approach these days is to use the new technology now to make sure that we allow the esthetic displays to come alive. So, a fair dollar has been set aside through out cultural plan, over the next three years, to bring these displays more in lines of interpretation.

Mr. Speaker, I would be remiss if I did not mention that, again, part of our plan with regard to the structures involves the Colonial Building. The Colonial Building is one that is of great importance, especially to the members here in this House, and I am very pleased to report that $500,000 has been set aside to begin the planning. The management plan is there. Consultation has taken place with all interested parties and we are in the process right now of putting together, what we call, a steering advisory committee of a number of people who are going to sit down and take that management plan and begin the process of putting together a full advisory group to follow the progress of the restoration of the Colonial Building that will take place over the next number of years.

I am also happy to report that I have approached the Heritage Minister of Canada, Minister Oda, and apprised her of where we are going with the Colonial Building and asked her to consider being part of that. She has asked that we put forth a plan and a request. I am very optimistic that our federal government - because with the Colonial Building, the Colonial Building is a part of the precinct of the House, to be quite honest with you. One point that the Speaker brought up during the consultation is that he would want the Colonial Building to remain true to the House, that we follow that direction and are looking to continue to keep it in the precinct of the House so that if there are special occasions when this House can adjourn to the Colonial Building for a session, maybe it is a signing or a special occasion, that will be there. Also, by keeping it within the precincts of the House, it will be true to where we want to go with the interpretation which will be the political history of Newfoundland and Labrador. So, that initiative is there. Again, I consider the Colonial Building to be not only, I guess, local, not only provincial, but is of national significance.

The question is, Mr. Speaker, and I know as time goes on - I just want to jump ahead a little bit, but it is a solid plan and it is not necessarily a plan of the government, Mr. Speaker. It was a plan that was fashioned by a committee of stakeholders in culture and heritage who sat around, who came forth with the suggestions of how we perceive, that we took what we heard from them, we put it into this document, Creative Newfoundland and Labrador, and put it back to the community and, I must say, it was accepted fully by the community as was the investment as we move forward.

The thing about it, Mr. Speaker, is that when the government presented this plan to the culture community, they came back and one of the immediate reactions was one of relief, that for the first time in the history of Newfoundland and Labrador, that the government has put on the table a culture strategic plan. That is oddity for most jurisdictions but again, very proud to say that this government brought it forth because this government understands the benefits of culture. Culture is, I suppose, the creativeness of who we are as a people, but it drives - and the thing that people have to realize, is that culture drives the economy. It enlivens education. It certainly helps with our, I guess, common health, but also our individual health because if we see culture and allow culture to go on (inaudible).

Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I would say to you, and I would say to the House here, that having a cultural plan will not only have the benefits of allowing culture to continue, but it will also allow the people of Newfoundland and Labrador present and future to have a clear sense of identity of who they are and where they are going.

On that note, we will leave it at that.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise tonight to join the debate.

Mr. Speaker, I spoke in the House earlier on the Budget. I outlined a lot of good things that government did in the Budget. I guess there is a time when we have to ask ourselves: Are we better off? No doubt in my riding, the riding of Torngat Mountains, things are getting better. A lot has to do with self-government, which they have waited for over thirty years and now they are beginning to implement. With self-government, the Aboriginal people on the North Coast of Labrador will run a lot of their own affairs. They will make their own decisions - good decisions I hope - that will have an impact on them for years to come.

Mr. Speaker, it is a better place because of the IBAs that the Aboriginals did with the Voisey's Bay Nickel. In conversation with members of the Aboriginal groups today, they honestly and truly believe that Voisey's Bay Nickel is living up to the IBAs. The amount of people that we have working with permanent jobs at Voisey's Bay is certainly a tremendous boost to the North Coast of Labrador. Certainly, we would like to see more and we will work on that.

Mr. Speaker, it is a better place because our youth are beginning to accept responsibility that with self-government they will be the ones, in years to come, who will be the ministers of Nunatsiavut, that they will make decisions and they will lay down the foundation as this new government sets its course for years to come.

Mr. Speaker, there are four mining companies who are doing exploration work in the Makkovik-Postville area this year. Last year, one company alone had employed twenty-two people from the community of Postville and when you look at twenty-two jobs for three or four months of a community with a population of 180 people, then one can only understand the big impact that it has had on that little community.

Mr. Speaker, we have to ask ourselves, too: Are we better off? When we see the people at Harbour Breton, the downturn of the fishery and the hard times that has fulfilled these communities, we have to ask ourselves the question: Be honest, are they are better off? I am quite sure that the majority of the people who live in Harbour Breton would say: No, we are not better off than we were three years ago. When we look at Stephenville and what happened to the mill, the number of people who are looking for work elsewhere and those who will move away, then we have to ask ourselves: Are we better off than we were three years ago? We look at the Burin Peninsula where unrest of work, that for years the fishery was a mainstay of the Burin Peninsula and rural Newfoundland and Labrador. Really, I guess, in many ways, through no fault of the present government, but because of the way the fishery is now being run and the way the stocks are, that many, many people in rural Newfoundland will say: No, we are not better off today.

Mr. Speaker, I heard today a member say that nothing was done for Labrador in the past. I am proud to say that I was a member of a government that built four brand new schools in my riding. I was a member of a government that did the roads, put crushed stone and built bridges in each of the communities on the North Coast for the first time ever. We also gave them a grader so they can maintain their roads. I was part of a government that brought in groomed trails on the North Coast of Labrador. I was part of a government that met with the people in Davis Inlet and we, with the help of the federal government and also financed by the federal government, created the new community of Natuashish. We saw youth centres built on the North Coast of Labrador. We saw a land claims deal done, basically, by the previous government and carried on by this government, under the direction of the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs, and certainly it was the co-operation, I guess, of both governments, but a tremendous amount of work done by the previous government, as well, that brought about these land claims.

Mr. Speaker, I was part of a government that brought in money for recruitment and retention, and brought in bonuses so we could keep teachers and nurses on the North Coast of Labrador. The most difficult job for any school board throughout this Province was to maintain teachers and nursing positions.

Mr. Speaker, we brought in housing for teachers and nurses as well. We brought in a large amount of money, I think it was in 1999, for additional houses on the North Coast of Labrador. Mr. Speaker, we started a sawmill in the community of Postville which was later taken over by the Labrador Inuit Development Corporation and today, Mr. Speaker, is a viable operation.

I was part of a government, Mr. Speaker, that gave the Nain Banker to Torngat Fisheries, and, once the Nain Banker was brought back, the government left the crab quota in the community of Makkovik. Mr. Speaker, that is how they got their crab plant.

Mr. Speaker, we saw money for heritage buildings in Hopedale, buildings that were built by the German and Moravian Mission in the late 1700s and 1800s, and we saw them rebuilt under a government that I was a part of.

We saw money for Hebron to stabilize the buildings and to reconstruct them. We saw money for the buildings in Rigolet, Mr. Speaker, a tremendous boost for the tourism in that area. I was part of a government, Mr. Speaker, that brought in more money for sports and for youth travel, particularly on the North Coast of Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, I was part of a government that opened up the Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs in Goose Bay; a department that was staffed by a minister from a Labrador riding, and a deputy minister was there the whole time.

Mr. Speaker, with the help of Lawrence O'Brien, we brought in money for the Trans-Labrador Highway, and today this government is still carrying on as we finish off the part between Happy Valley-Goose Bay and Cartwright. Mr. Speaker, that, in itself, is going to be a godsend for the people in Labrador when we consider the high cost of travel.

Mr. Speaker, I was part of a government in Happy Valley-Goose Bay when we built a new hospital, we built a new school, and we constructed a new courthouse. Mr. Speaker, these are just some of the things that we did as part of a government, and I, too, Mr. Speaker, can stand in my place today and challenge any government to put the amount of money into Labrador that we put in from 1996 to 2003. I hope that the Member for Lake Melville will be part of a government that, after they have spent a number of years in government, that they can come back and they can produce the figures and say: Well, we've outdone you.

I hope that can happen, but right now, Mr. Speaker, I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt, there is no government, other than the previous Liberal government, who spent so much money in Labrador.

These are facts, Mr. Speaker. When we look at the number of buildings and the infrastructure that we put there, I can stand here today, beyond a shadow of a doubt, and I can say that no government has treated Labrador the way we did. Again, I will say, I hope that very soon this government over here, Mr. Speaker, can certainly come back in a few years' time, or three or four years' time, and say: Yes, here, this is what we have done. Because, Mr. Speaker, once we get money for infrastructure and for our communities, then everyone prospers and it makes a better living for all those who live in the Big Land.

Mr. Speaker, the question has to be: Are we better off? Mr. Speaker, for some people it is. Unfortunately, for a lot of people who live in the rural part of Newfoundland and Labrador, if we were to put the question to themselves: Are they better off? I am sure there are a lot of people from Harbour Breton, from Stephenville, from the Northern Peninsula, from the Burin Peninsula, who would have to say: No, we are not better off than we were three years ago.

Mr. Speaker, with that, that is what I had written down to speak on tonight. Certainly, I look forward to rising again maybe tonight and speaking on some more great things that the government that I was a part of did for Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further debate?

Are we ready for the question?

MR. E. BYRNE: We are ready.

MR. SPEAKER: The motion is that the House concurs in the report of the Resource Committee on Estimates.

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, ‘nay'.

Motion carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We want to move to the Concurrence Debate on the social services sector for the Estimates Committee, so I do now move that.

I believe the Member for St. John's North, who Chaired the Social Services Estimates Committee process will open up the debate with some opening remarks generally about the process.

Thank you, Mrs. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for St. John's North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDGLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is my pleasure to rise tonight, as Chair of the Social Services Committee, to begin debate.

Perhaps, having listened to the debate on the previous two committees, we may have to come up with a new name rather than concurrence, because it has been anything but that if one listens closely to the debates. I am sure, when the debate is finished on this, that deep down the members on the other side of the House - deep down - will, in fact, concur that we are moving forward.

Mr. Speaker, our Committee, the Social Services Committee, covered some large ministries: the Department of Education; the Department of Health and Community Services; the Department of Justice; the Department of Municipal Affairs; Labrador Affairs; Human Resources, Labour and Employment; as well as Newfoundland and Labrador Housing; and the Status of Women. So, needless to say, over the weeks that these Estimates were on the go, we were, in fact, busy.

I would like to thank all members of the Committee. There were some regular members there, and some were unavoidably detained for reasons of illness or other reasons and could not take part, and other members filled in for them.

I would like to thank the Member for Conception Bay South, the newly-elected Member for Placentia & St. Mary's, for having sat on this Committee, the Member for Labrador West, the Member for Port de Grave, the Member for Burgeo & LaPoile. I know some of the members who filled in intermittently, as I said, for those other members who could not make it, were: the Member for Gander, the Member for St. Barbe, and the Member for Lake Melville.

It was all about, Mr. Speaker, as somebody mentioned before, questioning by members of the Committee, of course. Naturally, most of the questions would have come from the Opposition members. I would like to compliment them on having been well-prepared for each of those meetings. They were very thorough in their questioning. I know in some departments we were there for - with the Department of Health and Community Services, we were there for some three-and-a-half hours of questioning. So, needless to say, the questioning was exhaustive and, I might say, exhausting at times, but nonetheless that is what accountability in government is all about. There was a thorough analysis of the expenditures for the last fiscal year and of the Estimates for the coming year.

Again, I would like to compliment the ministers for their forthright answers, and also to the staffs of those ministries for having been well-prepared and forthright and forthcoming and thorough and professional in the answers that they provided to the Committee.

With those few remarks, Mr. Speaker, I would like to open debate. I am sure, as I say, at the end, there will, in fact, be concurrence, because I know that the Opposition members do, in fact, concur that the Estimates that were presented to them indicate that we are, in fact, on the right track.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I allow time for debate on this department.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise tonight to speak to the Budget. Of course, we are now into the discussion on the Social Policy Committee of government, and the discussions that took place around the various committees, or the various departments, that fell under that particular heading.

I guess it is appropriate, Mr. Speaker, that we are talking about social issues when you consider what is happening in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. I think, no matter who you speak to in this Province, whether they live on the Avalon Peninsula or they live on some other peninsula, they would have to say that rural Newfoundland is, in fact, in crisis.

I know, as I listen to some of the speakers from the government side, there was a lot of talk about what is happening in parts of the Province. I do not think that is a measure of any government in terms of what is happening in other parts of the Province. Nobody would suggest that there are not good things happening in some areas of Newfoundland and Labrador, but I think what we need to discuss is what is not happening. That is why, I think, we have some serious issues and some problems with this government in terms of the approach they have taken to revitalizing rural Newfoundland and Labrador, because there is so little of that happening.

I heard the Government House member today talk about what is happening in the forestry, what is happening in aquaculture, and what is happening in some other areas of the Province in some other industries. No one would debate or suggest that it is not happening, but I think when you look at the fishery itself and, yes, while we have had some success in aquaculture, by and large what we are seeing happening today in the fishery is troubling. It is troubling, particularly to those people who are being directly impacted. Many of these people I know personally, of course, because it is impacting very seriously on the District of Grand Bank, and that is the district that I represent.

When I listen to the people who worked at the plant in Fortune - and I say worked, because we all know what has transpired there; we all know that FPI has made the decision that they are not going to open that plant any more - it is hard, when you listen to people who have worked there for thirty, forty years and now really do not know where to turn. They cannot believe that they got a notice in the mail. That is how they found out.

Now, we all know that FPI had talked about what they were going to do with the plant in Fortune, that they had talked about not opening it, but, you know, you live in hope, and I guess you live in hope because you know that you have a government who touts themselves as being concerned about rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

We, all in this Province, know about the FPI Act. We know the authority that this government has when it comes to that particular piece of legislation. That is why we live in hope, because we know that we have people who are elected to represent our best interest. When that does not happen, then what happens to that hope? Well, we all know what is happening now in rural Newfoundland and Labrador, and I can tell you, as the Member for the District of Grand Bank, that I have people who are calling and saying: Where do I turn?

They are talking to each other. They are talking to friends and relatives who live away. They are wondering whether or not there is any hope for them if they move out of the Province. You know, the reality of the situation is that, when you have someone who has worked in a fish plant for thirty or forty years, worked as an employee, a member of a union, as an employee of Fishery Products International, they have access to an insurance program, and if these people require medication for whatever illness they have then that is covered under that insurance program.

When they are looking for employment outside of this Province and they are looking either to Northern B.C. or they are looking to Ontario or they are looking to Alberta, or they are looking to P.E.I., if they have to go work and it is not a union job and they still have to pay for those medications, now they have to go and pay rent. They have to get to wherever the job is, and they have to cover the cost of their own medications.

How can they possibly afford that? They are giving up their home, a home that they have probably paid off over twenty-five years. Their transportation is here; they cannot take that with them, in a lot of cases. The cost of gas is horrendous, so just getting to where they need to go to access another job is a problem in itself. So, these people are at loose ends and I am standing here tonight talking to members of a government that does not seem to acknowledge that there is a problem here.

You talk about things that are happening in other parts of the Province and, I repeat, that is good and nobody would question that. It is a good thing, but when you get so defensive, you get up talking about all the good things that are happening, to me, it sounds like you are being just a little too defensive. You should really acknowledge that, yes, we have a serious situation in rural Newfoundland in particular when it comes to the fishery.

We should all realize that the fishery has indeed been the backbone of this Province. The fishery is the one industry that has kept this Province going year in and year out, and thousands of people have been working in that industry. Now we are looking at dismantling Fishery Products International. Now we are looking at a company that, if it transpires what is being proposed, we have someone who is going to buy the assets of FPI and we are going to have a marketing company that is going to become the responsibility of someone else. Then, there is no longer an FPI, there is no longer a need for an FPI Act, a piece of legislation that protects Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, a piece of legislation that was put in place to ensure that the interests of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians came first. That is not going to happen.

The question I have about all of this is: If we have Mr. Barry who is interested in acquiring the assets of Fishery Products International, why is it that he thinks it can work when FPI says it cannot? Won't he be impacted by the Canadian dollar? Won't he be impacted by cheap Chinese labour? It raises all of these questions, that if Mr. Barry can make it work, why can't FPI? Why can't this government strengthen the piece of legislation that we have to make sure that FPI does not ride off into the sunset having probably gotten paid for quotas that really are and should be the property of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, ride off into the sunset with money that they can use to support their wealthy shareholders or support other parts of an industry and leave Newfoundlanders and Labradorians out in the cold? Why is it you are not asking those questions?

If someone like Bill Barry can look at the assets of FPI and see that it can be a viable industry, with him at the helm, shouldn't that raise questions in the government's mind about what is going on here? What exactly is FPI up to? I know it raises questions in my mind. I have to wonder how much does the government know. How can they possibly agree to a company that wants to ship products to China, that continues to ship products to China, because we know they have been doing it, how can they agree with that no matter what size the fish are?

I had someone say to me today - in fact, she read me a letter that she had written. It was heart wrenching to listen to it because she had poured her heart into this letter, a letter that she wanted to send to the Premier and to the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture and to the federal Minister of Fisheries and to her MP. She had all of these questions, but she is not getting answers. All I could do was tell her I have the same questions, but we are not getting answers from this government. All we hear from this government, when they talk about rural Newfoundland and Labrador, are strategies or plan Bs. I keep saying, well, plan A did not work, obviously. Plan B is not working out very well for Harbour Breton at this point in time. There is no Plan B for Fortune from what I can gather.

We have Cooke Aquaculture, but you are talking eighteen months down the road. The problem with that is there is not going to be anyone left to work for Cooke Aquaculture because they are leaving Fortune, they are leaving Lamaline, they are leaving Point au Gaul, they are leaving Point May, they are leaving Grand Beach, and they are leaving Grand Bank, in droves. Everyday there are families leaving. You will really see the exodus when school closes in June. That is when reality will really set in, in those communities, when they look around them and see there are no children left in the community. There are no children, there are no young people left in the community, and we really will become a community, as a Province, of seniors.

I make no wonder the government is going around with its sounding sessions now on what the future holds for our seniors. You should be. You should be, because, you know, that is exactly what our Province is going to be comprised of. As much as I love our seniors, and they make a contribution and have made an important and significant contribution in Newfoundland and Labrador, I want Newfoundland to be a Province where we have innovative, creative young people who want this Province to thrive, who want to be a part of a Newfoundland and Labrador that has a lot to offer anyone who would like to live and work here. Unfortunately, with the attitude that is being taken by this government, particularly as it relates to rural Newfoundland and Labrador, I can see us having a vibrant Avalon Peninsula, but speak to anyone on the Northern Peninsula, speak to people on the Burin Peninsula, speak to people on the Bonavista Peninsula.

I just read, in fact, that they are having difficulty getting a meeting with FPI. The people on the Bonavista Peninsula, who are now wondering about the future of the FPI plant in Bonavista, cannot get that meeting with FPI. What does that tell you? I mean, those are the actions of a company that has lost sight of the reason why it existed in the first place. They have just turned their back on Newfoundland and Labrador. They have reaped whatever profits they could, and when there was a downturn in the ground fishery they decided, well enough of this, we do not believe in sharing the pain, we do not believe in cross-subsidization, we do not believe in anything that will speak to good corporate citizenship. What we believe is that we need to take whatever we consider to be viable and take that to the bank and satisfy our shareholders, but forget about those thousands of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians who worked so hard to make that company viable. And it has been a viable company, and it continues to make a profit, maybe not as much money as they would like it to make at this point in time, but that is not to say that it cannot get there again - a little patience, a little understanding, a government that will hold them accountable so they will understand that they do have a responsibility to this Province, that they cannot just walk away.

When I look at this government's Throne Speech, and I mentioned this before, on March 22, 2006, when I looked at the Throne Speech to find out how this government was thinking about the fishery, what their plans were, how they planned to address the fishery - remember now the fishery, the back bone industry of Newfoundland and Labrador. For hundreds of years it has been the mainstay of our economy, and what does this government put in the Throne Speech? Together we will also work to ensure that we benefit from our natural resources particularly our important fish resources, through increased investments in resource, product and market development. We will also contribute to the recovery and future management of cod, which has been and will continue to be vital to our Province's future prosperity. Two lines in a Throne Speech about an industry that has been the mainstay of our economy since this Province existed. That is pathetic! For anyone to able to look up and tell me that they are concerned about what is going on in the fishery - we get stories left, right and centre. No two stories are the same. People aren't agreeing. One party will say one thing and then another party will say something else. Confusion reigns supreme here, and the people in rural Newfoundland and Labrador are wondering where the leadership has gone. Why isn't the government standing up to this industry, to this particular company? Why is the government not taking FPI to task? They have the authority, they have the legislation, they have all they need to hold FPI accountable and still they are choosing not to do so.

When I listen to the people from my district - and it is not just in Fortune, because the fish plant in Fortune actually served maybe nine or ten communities. People from Point May, Lamaline, Point au Gaul, Grand Beach, Grand Bank, Fortune all relied on that fish plant and now it is closed. The difficulty I have with this, a lot of it has to do with the union and with the executive of the union. I recall when the whole income trust was being debated and discussed here and I remember at the time questioning whether or not I should vote for this income trust. My constituents were asking me to do so because there was a promise of a secondary processing plant in Fortune on the table and it meant the future of the people in my district. I was being asked by my constituents to support that. At the same time, we knew that Harbour Breton was finding itself in a situation where people were having to leave, did not know if they had a future. At the time, I decided to vote with my heart instead of with my head, and I did. I did because there was a promise of a secondary processing plant on the table for Fortune. We all know what happened there. That did not come about.

I remember at the time there was the executive of FFAW going around and saying, well, you know, two out of three is not bad, kind of writing off Harbour Breton; two out of three is not bad. Now I am saying to Earl McCurdy and anyone else who will listen, is it now that one out of three is not bad? Is that the situation now that Harbour Breton is gone, Fortune is gone and we are left with Marystown? I am not sure what we are left with in Marystown, but I can tell you they are not dancing in the streets down there over any thought that Bill Barry might come in and buy out the assets. I do not know, Bill Barry might be the best thing since sliced bread, but they are wondering why it is that if Bill Barry is interested in buying the assets of FPI, if he is such a good business man, along with Karl Sullivan, if they are such good business people, why is it that they think they can make a profit. I mean, unless they are dumb, why would they be wanting to buy the assets of FPI? If they think they can make a profit, why can't FPI? Those are the questions that are being asked in Marystown tonight. They are also the same questions that are being asked in Fortune. It does not make sense.

Again we go back to Mr Barry, and I am assuming that he is a good business man. I do not know, I have not had any dealings with him. All I know is I remember when he was involved with John Risley and the whole NEOS proposal, but I can tell you this smacks an awful lot of NEOS, NEOS reincarnated, coming back in through the backdoor what they could not get through the front door. I am just wondering if we are not doing the people of Newfoundland and Labrador a disservice by allowing that to happen, when we have a piece of legislation in this House that can hold FPI accountable, and that the people who have worked so hard to make FPI viable, that the individuals that I know on a personal basis who have worked day in and day out, have in fact taken cuts in salaries, have done whatever needed to be done to make sure that company survived - yes, there have been some rough patches, there have been challenges, but everybody hung in there.

I remember when we were the government and FPI wanted to close some plants and lay off thousands of employees, we said, no, not going to happen - not going to happen! - you have to find a way to work within the confines of what you have to work with, and they did. I have to question under this new leadership, this new leadership that FPI has, I have to question the whole idea of what is transpiring here. It just seems to be too neat in terms of not doing this and not doing that, somebody coming in and picking up the pieces, someone else, a friend of somebody else - you put the pieces together, it all falls so neatly in place, all the players, the various scenarios about who is going to buy what, who is going to do what with what. It begs a lot of questions about how this could happen.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

I remind the hon. the Member for Grand Bank that her speaking time is expired.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: The hon. member by leave.

MS FOOTE: Just leave to clue up, Mr. Speaker, please?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member by leave.

MR. E. BYRNE: I did not say yes to that. Absolutely, absolutely.

MS FOOTE: Thank you. We just had to make sure we had leave from the Government House Leader over here. I think he was doubtful about giving it there for a minute, but that is fine. I will take whatever I can get.

Since it was the Government House Leader who questioned whether or not he should give leave, I wanted to just mention an opportunity that I think is there for rural Newfoundland and Labrador, an opportunity that I know in my district we would love to take advantage of, and that is wind power, the whole idea of being able to generate electricity through wind.

Here we have, down in St. Lawrence, a golden opportunity. In fact, we were probably that close to getting it off the ground. It did not happen, but we are still hopeful because what I see happening down there, particularly in St. Lawrence with respect to this particular initiative, is an opportunity to build the wind turbines at the shipyard in Marystown, a golden opportunity to put hundreds of people to work, particularly people who live in that area, to actually build - I think they were talking somewhere around thirty-five such turbines, building them in Marystown, putting them up around St. Lawrence. From what I could gather, all the research pointed to it being a very viable project.

I am hoping that will, in fact, come to fruition because it is a kind of initiative that is good for rural Newfoundland. There are things that can happen in rural Newfoundland, probably not in every community, but in St. Lawrence I see this as being a very real possibility that I am hoping can be given serious consideration.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to rise to speak to the social policy estimates I think we are discussing now, but it is a part of the Budget. I think we have four headings in the Budget. We have broken them down to four or five. Resource, I think we just did, and we did one earlier today. Mr. Speaker, being about the Budget, I guess we can speak to any topic we wish, but I want to talk about the Budget and I want to talk about the impact of the economy on different areas of the Province. I will talk about a number of topics tonight, one being, of course, the fishery, because I was the Minister of Fisheries and I worked in the Department of Fisheries. It is also the largest industry in the Province. I will also talk about the forest industry, and, yes, even though someone does not want to hear it, I will be talking about FPI and the oil industry before I sit down tonight, Mr. Speaker.

I listened with great interest today, and in the couple of days prior to the Easter break, as I listened to the thirty-five members on the government side, and on this side we have a total - with the NDP - of thirteen. I listened with great interest as, one after another, the government members stood and talked about what a great Budget it was and all the rosy things that are happening, especially in the areas of rural Newfoundland and rural Labrador. That is, for the most part, the entire Province with the exception of the small section that we call the Avalon Peninsula. Even in that area of the Province not everything is rosy except for, maybe, the Northeast Avalon. I will even get into talking about that later on because not everybody who lives in the North, or lives on the Northeast Avalon, the greater St. John's area, thinks that things are rosy.

Mr. Speaker, prior to the Budget and just after the Budget came out, we heard the Premier, the Minister of Finance and most of the ministers talking about what great financial shape the Province is in. We hear the Minister of Finance talking about the GDP that he used to complain so vigorously about. When we mentioned the GDP, the increase in the GDP, when we were in government, he used to yap at us across the floor and say, you cannot feed someone on the GDP.

Mr. Speaker, we hear economists saying that Newfoundland and Labrador is in great financial shape, and you would think that things are going great. Since the Budget came down, we notice that the Minister of Finance has been taking what he touts as a good news budget around the Province, or he would lead you to believe that he is going around the Province and addressing most of the people who live there. Mr. Speaker, you have to wonder where the minister has been going to sell this good news budget, because I guarantee you that he has not been in Tilting or Joe Batts Arm, he has not been in Deep Bay, he has not been in Change Islands, he has not been in Tizzard's Harbour or Valley Pond or Herring Neck or Twillingate or Durrell or Purcell's Harbour. He has gone to the major centres in the Province and who has he addressed, I ask? You will find that he is addressing either the Board of Trade or the Chamber of Commerce, and he is telling them what great financial shape the Province is in. I tell the minister that, I guess the reason he has not gone to areas like Quirpon on the Northern Peninsula and Bird Cove, or he has not gone to Fortune or he has not gone to Hickman's Harbour on Random Island and he has not gone down to Trout River, is because he has no good news. He has no good news to tell those individuals.

Mr. Speaker, as I said, I have listened attentively to most of the speakers opposite who got up one after another and talked about what a great financial position the Province is in and how much they are doing for the people of this Province, but let me just talk about it. Well, some of what they say is true. I personally feel that we are in the best financial shape that we have been in since Confederation, and that came about as you know because of the Atlantic Accord. I know those opposite do not want to talk about luck, but we did have a bit of luck with the Atlantic Accord, in happening to be in the right place at the right time. I do have to give the Premier a bit of credit. Once he knew that he had Paul Martin hooked he reeled him in quite nicely, and we appreciate the fact that he did so. With all that new found wealth we have, Mr. Speaker, we find that areas in the Province, most of the areas in the Province, are not faring very well.

I am going to start to talk about the fishery. I am not going to talk about FPI yet but I am going to talk about the fishery in general. Most communities outside the Northeast Avalon, with the exception of the towns in the areas that depend on the forest industry - those are few and I will talk about those later - most of the other areas outside of the Northeast Avalon depend for their livelihood on the fishery. I do not think that it would come as any surprise to any of those opposite who represent rural districts, like the Member for Bonavista South or the Member for Bonavista North or the member who represents the Baie Verte Peninsula or the two members who represent the Northern Peninsula, I do not think it would come as any surprise to any of those people to find that the fishery is probably in the worst shape that it has been in the last thirty or forty years. I do not think that anyone who has lived in those areas or represent these areas would argue with me about that, because we are faced with a situation this year that if something is not done about it and if the government does not take it seriously, I only have a fear for what is going to happen later in this fall when most of these people who are involved with the fishery realize that they can no longer survive in this Province and they are forced to go elsewhere, as many of their friends, their families and their colleagues have gone prior to this year.

Mr. Speaker, on the North East Coast of this Province the vast majority of fish harvesters depend on crab for an income. When I say the North East Coast, I am saying everything from, basically, St. John's right up to and including the South Coast of Labrador. All of those areas depend, for the most part, for the major portion of their income, on the crab fishery. I do not know if those opposite are aware, those who represent urban districts, but this year we have the lowest price for a pound of crab that we have seen in a very long time. I think, right now today, it is ninety-eight cents, and there is a good possibility, when the review is undertaken in another few weeks, that might even sink lower. I do not know if you realize what impact that might have on the economy and the individuals who are trying to eke a living from the fishery, whether they be aboard a boat or work in a fish plant in the Province on the Northeast Coast. I tell you, it is going to be devastating.

I will give you a few examples. Just a few short years ago, two to be exact, the price of a pound of crab was $2.40, and many of the fish harvesters along the Northeast Coast, not all of them, not even most of them, had somewhere between 100,000 and 200,000. Some of them had between 100,000 and 200,000 pounds of crab. Just take, for example, the harvester in my district who had 100,000 pounds of crab two years ago, he grossed out $240,000. That was his gross income as a result of the crab fishery, bearing in mind that he had 100,000 pounds and he sold it at $2.40 a pound. This same fisherman today, this same harvester today, who is living on the Northeast Coast of the Province, because of two quota cuts in the 3K area, and that is from Bonavista North to up around the St. Anthony area, two quota cuts totaling 40 per cent, that same harvester today is left with 60,000 pounds of crab and the price for crab this year is ninety-eight cents a pound. So that individual this year will gross less than $60,000, down from $240,000 two short years ago.

I ask those opposite - and we all make a very decent salary in this House of Assembly - just imagine if your salary had dropped from $240,000 two years ago to less than $60,000 this year, and you still had the same bills to pay, bills like insurance, $16,000 a year, bills for bait that they are paying eighty cents a pound for, bills for fuel when we see an escalation in the price of diesel over the past couple of years. And you wonder how these individuals are going to maintain their enterprises.

I have one individual in my district who has gone from close to $200,000 to $250,000 gross in the last couple of years, down this year to $50,000 for him and a crew of four. This year he does not think that any of them will qualify for unemployment insurance in the fall of the year. What do we hear from those opposite? All we hear is what a great job this government is doing, and we have a strategy.

The Minister of Tourism rose tonight and talked about - he was supposed to be talking about culture and heritage and tourism, but he always makes a slip every now and then and talks about something he knows nothing of, and that was the fishery when he said: We have a strategy for the fishery. Well, I think if you told that to most of the people who live in fishing communities in the Province, they would probably agree with him, but I do not think they would agree with his idea, because he thinks, when he says we have a strategy for the fishery, that he is talking about something positive. Well, I tell you, if you talk to the fish harvesters and the plant workers and those who rely on the fishery around this Province, there is nothing in the strategy that this government has that is going to make them feel any better. It is certainly not going to feed them this fall or this winter.

Mr. Speaker, that is on the Northeast Coast of the Province. That takes care of thousands and thousands of people who depend on the fishery, not only on the water but in the plants. If you move around the tip of the Northern Peninsula and come back down from Southern Labrador and you look at the Northwest Coast, the people on the Northwest Coast rely almost solely on shrimp. They have nothing else for the most part. Some of them further down have a few lobsters, but people like Dwight Spence and those fellows who own sixty-foot vessels, who were what we called the biggest fish killers in the Province ten or fifteen short years ago, are left today with nothing to make a living from except for shrimp. We know that the price of shrimp this year is such that it won't probably even pay for the fuel they are going to burn, let alone the insurance and the expense they have of operating vessels. What are these people going to do this year, if, I might add, they can find someone to buy their shrimp? That looks more and more doubtful every day.

Mr. Speaker, if you move down the Southwest Coast, if you move down around Port aux Basques and that area, there is no fish plant open, there if very little fishing going on - and Burnt Islands and that area. If you move further around the coast and you come to Ramea and Burgeo, you have to ask yourself what these people are going to live on. The plant in Burgeo closed some years ago after Mr. Barry took the quotas that National Sea traditionally processed in Burgeo. When they bought the plant from National Sea, a very short time after that we saw Mr. Barry and Company transfer the quota from Burgeo off to the Mainland. At the time, I know there was very little the Province could do, and there was very little that the federal government, who could do something, did for the people except to say: We cannot control where the quota is processed once we allocate the quota.

Mr. Speaker, if you move further along the South Coast, into Harbour Breton, we all know and we have all seen it over the past year-and-a-half, and we have all heard it on the radio and we have all seen it on the television, the plight that the people of Harbour Breton are going through and have gone through. We also now see the same thing happening to Fortune and Marystown. Traditionally, these plants were year-round facilities. Traditionally, these plants processed tons and tons and hundreds and thousands of tons, of groundfish, and today all of these plants are lying idle.

I would hazard to guess that this is probably the first time that the fish plant in Marystown has ever been closed in the last forty years, during the period that it has been closed now, from December until April or May. I have never known the community of Marystown to have a plant that was not open during that period of the year, and what has been happening? We all know that, and I will get back to FPI and what has been happening to that a little later.

We talk about, Mr. Speaker, the fishery and what is happening to all of the rural communities right around the coast and up to Labrador and we find that, unless the government can bring in a strategy, as the Minister of Tourism talked about earlier here tonight, unless they can bring in a strategy for the fishery, I hazard to guess that ,come October or November, there are going to be very few people left in the fishery and that they will be moving on to somewhere else in Canada.

Mr. Speaker, the other large industry that we have in rural parts of our Province, that stretches into Labrador, is our forest industry. I notice that the minister who represents Stephenville, the Minister of Education and the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women, is not paying a lot of attention to me as I speak here tonight. In fact, she is enthralled in a very amusing conversation over there because she is having a great time laughing about it all.

Anyway, I say to the minister that she should pay some attention because, as we all know, it was only a year ago or a half a year ago that Abitibi decided that they were going to close the mill in Stephenville, throwing 901 people out of work. I say 901 because the Minister Responsible for Natural Resources, and the Government House Leader, said in this House that the total indirect and direct numbers who were employed as a result of the Stephenville mill totalled 901, and he shakes his head.

MR. E. BYRNE: Nine hundred.

MR. REID: Nine hundred.

Mr. Speaker, we saw what happened to Stephenville even thought the Premier, when he was campaigning during the election or the fall of 2003, made the comments that, that mill would never close under his watch.

Well, Mr. Speaker, I am sorry to inform him that the mill has closed. I know that he mentioned that he was going to go out and try to spend $150 million to keep that mill activated and running in Stephenville. In my opinion, I don't think that the Premier ever had any intention of spending that $150 million, because he knew that mill was going to close and he knew that, regardless of what he did or what he said -

MR. E. BYRNE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Government House Leader, on a point of order.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, the member is bordering on impugning motives on another member, but that is not what I am rising on.

The fact of the matter is, for anyone to make an allegation that the Premier of the Province made a legitimate offer on behalf of the government - and I know this because I was intimately involved and led the negotiations with Abitibi with respect to this arrangement, that we entered into an arrangement with Abitibi with respect to the operations in Stephenville on energy supply and the cost of energy, an arrangement that they accepted and that we entered into, both, agreed to together.

The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition needs to acknowledge that, and to suggest otherwise, to impugn motives, really, is out of order in my view, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think we all sat here today and, if I am not mistaken, it is probably the first point of order; but it does not surprise me because every, time I stand to speak, the people opposite, I seem to walk on their corns or do something with them because they always get a bit testy and they want to stand and cut me off so that I will lose my train of thought, but I am entitled to my opinion and what I said is: I don't think that the Premier ever intended - and I will say it again, in case you didn't hear me, I don't think the Premier ever intended - to spend $150 million. In fact, I was quite certain, I say to the Minister of Natural Resources, the very day after he announced it. The very day after he announced that he was prepared to spend $150 million, I walked into my office that morning and I said: If the Minister of Natural Resources is out this morning selling that deal and the Premier is not, that deal will never occur.

Guess who was the first caller to Open Line that morning? The Minister of Natural Resources. I looked at the staff in my office and I said: That is a dead deal - and, sure enough, it was a dead deal.

I say to the minister, where did the Premier go? Where did the Premier go? The Premier went the same place that day as he goes every time there is a catastrophe in this Province. He heads south to play golf; because the very next day, it is my understanding, he was on a plane to South Carolina to play golf.

That is what happened, Mr. Speaker, and when the oil deal went sour and went south just before Easter, where did the Premier go? He went south with it. That is what he did. He just came back here today and said the reason he is not going to the oil show in Texas is because there is such a catastrophe happening in the fishing industry and he needs to deal with FPI.

Finally said. Finally said, I must say, greatly said and greatly spoken, from a man who just returned after two weeks in the sunny south, with a great suntan, and now he can't go to the oil show - but he went last year, I say to the minister and those opposite. He went to the oil show last year when we had every single fish harvester in this Province on the street on a strike, and every single plant worker out of business. The Premier said, before he went to the oil show: I don't care if the fishery opens at all this summer. It is only a $1.1 billion industry. I don't care if it ever opens the summer because we are not backing down on our Raw Material Sharing.

I say to the Premier: If he is going to come up with excuses for not going to the oil show this year, he had better come up with a better one than he is caring for the people in the fishery, because I don't buy that and I am sure that anyone involved in the fishery of this Province doesn't buy it either.

All you have to do is look at the colour of his face today, when he stood in the House of Assembly to say that. Anyone who looked at the colour of his face would know that he was not in the Province for the past two weeks. So, don't use that line on me because, boy, I am telling you, no one buys that, I say to those opposite. Nobody buys it.

Now, Mr. Speaker, besides closing the mill in Stephenville and laying off 900 people.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. REID: The Minister of Works, Services and Transportation, old crackie himself, is trying to convince me now that the Premier was out sealing and that is where he got his suntan. Yes, and I don't wonder why people laugh. I can just see him now, out - it would bring new meaning to clubbing seals, I will tell you that. For a man who owns three golf courses, I bet you he knows a lot about clubs, but it is not about seals, I say to the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, I suggest to the Government House Leader that he should get these fellows to quieten down a little bit over there, because every time they open their mouth they insert their feet.

We know what the Premier did with Stephenville, and the Stephenville mill, and how 900 people today are without jobs on the Port au Port Peninsula in the Bay St. George area. We know what is happening to them. They, along with the people of Harbour Breton and other areas of the Province, are heading west, just where most of the people in this Province are heading.

Mr. Speaker, last week the minister of -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It was only last week that I was driving in from Stephenville, actually, or the week before - no, last week I was driving in from Stephenville. We met out there with a bunch of concerned citizens and groups who have a number and a host of problems that are never raised here in the House of Assembly because they have members who sit on the government side, and we know that members on the government side are not allowed to raise issues in the House of Assembly or to offer opinions or comments because of the fear that, that which happened to Fabian Manning would happen to them. In driving home from Stephenville that night, I did hear constituents of the member -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, can we have a little order here, please?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. REID: Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, when I was driving in, I heard the minister on the air, or someone talking, that the minister had announced that day the total allowable cut for wood had been reduced. I heard a number of people in the Gander Bay region, in the District of Bonavista North, and I heard a number of constituents of the Member for Lewisporte area also on, in the Loon Bay, Comfort Cove area, talking about how they had effectively lost their jobs as a result of a reduction in the total allowable cut for wood in the Central region, Mr. Speaker.

Maybe the Minister of Natural Resources will rise later and tell us how many jobs have been lost there, because I know that there are a lot of people in my district who depend on the forestry, in the New World Island area, who may not find employment this year as a result of that cut. We also know, Mr. Speaker, that there are people over in Exploits District who will also lose their jobs in the logging industry this year. Things are not working well in the forestry industry, just as they are not working well in the fishing industry.

I also say to those opposite that, all along the Northern Peninsula and the Baie Verte Peninsula, people have lost their jobs for one reason or another in the forestry, either it be the closure of the mill in Abitibi or a result of the cuts to the timber cut or the total allowable cut for wood in that region.

MR. E. BYRNE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Government House Leader, on a point of order.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I am going to get up and respond to the member's statements, but this is an individual in the House who is taking lessons from the former Leader of the Opposition. You throw as much nonsense out there, hope it sticks, and see if it is true or not.

There have been no cuts to the Annual Allowable Cut on the Northern Peninsula. I am happy to say, Mr. Speaker, that two days after Kruger pulled out of the Northern Peninsula, two days after, they went back and no one lost their job on the Northern Peninsula, Mr. Speaker, because of the arrangement that we made.

I say to the Leader of the Opposition, if you are going to make a point, make it, but to stand up and make false accusations, Mr. Speaker, about what is not even true -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. E. BYRNE: - I think it doesn't do anyone any service, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair does not determine what is factual and what is not, here in the House. The Chair can only rely on the hon. members, when they step forward to make their speeches and make their presentations, that they provide the facts as they see them.

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

That is two points of order by the hon. House Leader. As I said to you earlier, I expected as much, and I expect there will be a few more in the next forty or fifty minutes that I have left to speak.

Again, what the minister just did right here tonight is to prove the point that I have been trying to make. He proved the point that I am trying to make, because we get up and we talk about how things are not rosy in this Province, and the minister gets up now and he is trying to leave an impression that everything is rosy in the forest industry. That is what he is trying to do, by saying that I am making false accusations and I don't know what I am talking about.

Well, I suggest to the minister that he go to Gander Bay, he go to Loon Bay, he go over to the Exploits District and others around the Province, and tell them that the forestry is in great shape and nobody is losing their job. That is what I say to the minister. Maybe if you leave the confines of the House of Assembly once in awhile and travel around rural Newfoundland and Labrador you might see the other side of what you are talking about here tonight; but there is a point well made, and I am glad that you did it, because what you have done is prove that you see things with rosy glasses even where things are black and things are dull. I am glad that you can look at life that way, sitting in a cozy chair on the other side of the House of Assembly, while there are families out there who are finding it very difficult to live and are forced to go to other areas in this country against their wishes to find an income, I say to the minister.

Now, Mr. Speaker, we have talked about the fishery and the forestry. Let's talk about something that is of more importance to the people of St. John's, I guess. I am not condemning the Premier for the decision that he made with regard to the oil industry here a few weeks ago but, having said that, I say that we really do not know enough about the deal to be able to condemn him or to praise him because he will not release the information to us, but I will tell you a few things about what has happened as a result of that.

In this town alone, the paper said a short time ago, there are 350 companies who do business with the oil industry in the greater St. John's area. Well, I tell you, that project, how much was it going to cost to build a platform? Three billion dollars? Three billion dollars? Well, I can tell the Minister of Natural Resources, and the minister responsible for energy and for oil, that is going to have a very devastating impact on the economy of this city if we do not get that deal back on the table and do something. Whether we get the deal we wanted - we had certainly hoped that we would get a deal that we wanted - but, Mr. Speaker, I can tell you now, if that deal is gone -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, can I have some protection from the Minister of Transportation and Works? I know he does not like me very much because we were somewhat responsible for him getting the flick out of the Department of Fisheries. I know he does not like me but at least he could have the decency to listen.

Mr. Speaker, what I am saying -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair is having great difficulty hearing the hon. Leader of the Opposition. I ask members if they would kindly keep their shouts a little lower and if there are other private conversations to be used to take them outside.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for your protection again. Thank you for your protection.

Mr. Speaker, what I am saying is that with the interruption in any projects on the oil industry, anyone involved in it will tell you the best way to continue with an oil industry is without -

MR. E. BYRNE: What would you do with it, tell me?

MR. REID: We will talk about that later. The Minister of Natural Resources asks me what I would do with it. I would have tried to strike a deal. How can you ask somebody when you are up behind closed doors negotiating deals, like you are with Mr. Barry, like you are with Mr. Risley, and you do not say anything to anybody about it and then you ask the question: What would you do with it?

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, what I am saying is that the impact of not having a deal with the oil industry will be serious for the people who live in St. John's, because if that deal is not done for four, or five, or six years -

MR. E. BYRNE: (Inaudible) it is all done.

MR. REID: The minister is saying: oh, no. He is happy and he is glad and he is smiling tonight that the deal is off. Well, what happens to the 2,000, 3,000 or 4,000 people who could have found income and employment in the oil industry? He sits there and he laughs and he shakes his head, just like everything is rosy. All I can say to you tonight, Minister, is I do not know what you ate for supper but you have not stopped grinning since you came back here. That is all I can say to you. So, I do not know -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, go around St. John's and talk about how wonderful things are. Talk about the people, most of whom are working in jobs in this city for the minimum wage. Talk to the cleaner who will come in here tonight and clean up this place for the minimum wage, I say to the minister. Talk to these people.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair will plea once more.

Order, please!

The Chair will ask -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the Government House Leader and the Member for Bellevue if they would kindly refrain from shouting back and forth across the House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair will ask members on both sides of the House for their co-operation. The Leader of the Opposition has been recognized, he has one hour to speak and I ask that the member be heard in silence.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I just cannot believe, Mr. Speaker, that the group opposite are laughing and heckling when we are talking -

MR. E. BYRNE: At you.

MR. REID: Yes, you can laugh and heckle at me, but at least you should have the decency, I say to the Minister of Natural Resources, to listen when somebody is trying to speak in the House. You spoke this afternoon for twenty minutes, not one person on this side of the floor heckled you, I say to the minister. Not one person! I have been standing here for twenty minutes now and you have not shut your mouth, that is what I say to you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

If the shouting back and forth across the House continues, the Chair will have no other choice but recess the House and wait until members' tempers get to a lower scale.

I, again, ask members for their co-operation and I ask the Leader of the Opposition to continue with his speech.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again, I am trying to talk about the plight of average, normal people in this Province who do not have the money that some of us who sit in the House of Assembly have, who are finding it very difficult to survive in this Province and I have to put up with that tripe that is coming from across the floor. If you wonder why I am angry, that is the reason I am, because obviously these people do not talk to the people that we talk to on a daily basis.

I had a woman call my office this afternoon at 5:30 when the House closed from Lord's Cove on the Burin Peninsula, who this year, because of the price of crab and because of the price of every other fish species, is going to make a total, she and her husband, of $15,000 before expenses to pay for bait and to pay for fuel and pay for their boat. They are telling me - they are laughing across the floor at the plight of those people.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. REID: Case in point, Mr. Speaker. I say, they laugh, they heckle, they yell, they scream, they do it all, because they do not want to hear it because it does not fit in with their plan of the rosy outlook that they have for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, I will tell you something else, those same individuals with $15,000 of gross income who fall $8,000 below the poverty line - and the crowd opposite, like the Member for Lake Melville who is letting the big guffaw laughs out of him over there today, has no idea what it is like to try and make a living out of the fishery in this Province, no idea whatsoever. Mr. Speaker, I will tell you something else, he does not care. He does not care about those people who make a living from the fishery.

Mr. Speaker, earlier I said I was going to talk about the fishery, I was going to talk about the forestry, I was going to talk about the plight of the people in St. John's, and I am also going to talk about what is happening with FPI. It deserves to be talked about because there are people in towns like Harbour Breton, Fortune, Marystown, Bonavista, Triton, Catalina and Port aux Choix - and here is today's edition of the Packet which operates out of your own district, Mr. Speaker, I say, out of Clarenville, and here is the Peninsula news. Here is the Peninsula news in the Packet today, and I will read for you some of the headlines on it: Hope dwindling in Bonavista - FPI's plan for Burin and talks and concessions leave Peninsula workers pessimistic. Make no wonder they would feel pessimistic. If I lived on the Bonavista Peninsula and I depended on the plant in Bonavista or the plant in Port Union for a living I would feel pessimistic too right now, having watched the promises and the commitments that crowd from FPI made to the people of this Province and broke.

Here is another one: Bill's bombshell - Barry Group's offer to pay FPI creates a furor. Mr. Speaker, the golden handshake: Beleaguered FPI hands former executive handsome goodbye package. Another, Mr. Speaker: King's Cove fisherman says he say it coming and wonders if they did not drive her into bankruptcy or into debt over there so they could pick up FPI for half of that which they offered four short years ago. And they wonder why we question, why we talk about FPI. That is why we wonder. There it is, a full page, and that is just on the Bonavista Peninsula, I say to those of you opposite who do not read. Look at what is happening on the Burin Peninsula.

Now we have a proposal before the House of Assembly, or before government, that is going to - the Minister of Fisheries who calls me incompetent steps in front of a microphone last Wednesday afternoon and says, Bill Barry wants to buy FPI. He stood there and he said, we have been having discussions with him since before Easter. Then the Minister of Fisheries stood in front of that same seat before Easter, he and the Premier, and said that they have had no discussions with FPI. And you wonder why I get angry!

MR. E. BYRNE: (Inaudible).

MR. REID: Yes, I am angry, I say to the Minister of Natural Resources, and I have every right to be angry when I look at the incompetence of those opposite. That is what I say: Look at the incompetence of those opposite and the people who talk about being open and transparent, and hiding behind closed doors, cutting deals with their buddies and their friends and big companies, to come in and wipe this Province out. That's what I say, Mr. Speaker, and I have no problem saying it.

Now, Mr. Speaker, let's talk about FPI. We all know how that company got established. It was established - and the minister who is doing all the yelling and the screaming tonight amended it. I don't know but he brought in the original act back in the 1980's and wrote the intent of the FPI Act and why it was created, to be the flagship of the fishing industry in this Province and to lend stability to fishing communities dotted along the coast of this Province. Yet today he is talking about looking at a proposal where he is going to gut that company, divide it up and pass it off to John Risley and Bill Barry for half the price that it was valued at five years ago. That is what I say, Mr. Speaker. And you wonder why I am angry.

Mr. Speaker, let's talk about the proposal. All of a sudden he raises it in the media, and now because we are asking questions on it, he and the Premier get completely incensed about it today: Oh no, we cannot talk to you about a proposal, we are only going to let you know about that once the ink is signed on the deal and it is too late to talk about it. That is what they are proposing. You can yell and bawl all you like, I say to the two Minsters of Fisheries opposite, the previous one and the current one, you can yell and scream all you like because the people of the Province have seen you yell and scream from the top of your lungs out of the back of a pick-up truck recently.

MR. RIDEOUT: (Inaudible) doing to yourself.

MR. REID: I know what I am doing to myself, I am standing up for the people of this Province, especially those in the fishing industry, something -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. RIDEOUT: (Inaudible) government members opposite. Sit him down, for God's sake.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

This is going to be my final warning. If members continue to shout back and forth the House then the Chair will have no other choice but to recess the House and take a five minute break.

I will give the opportunity for the member to continue to speak, one more opportunity when the Chair has to rise and the House will be in recess.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

You will not be closing it down because of what I am saying, because I have ever right to speak in this House of Assembly. I am supposed to get an hour, and if those opposite do not like what I am saying they can leave the House of Assembly and I will talk to the camera for the remaining part of my speech tonight, Mr. Speaker. If they do not like it and they cannot handle the truth, they do not have to stay and listen to it.

Mr. Speaker, what we want to know is what Mr. Barry and what Mr. Risley have in mind for this company because four short years ago, or five short years ago, they came in here under NEOS one and offered to pay $9 a share for FPI and we said no to them. Now they are back, and according to at least one individual from King's Cove, he said he saw it coming and it does not surprise him that they are back again, only this time they are going to buy the company for half of what they offered in 2000. Here is an individual who knows what is happening in the fishery. Here is an individual who does not want me to sit down and shut up tonight, as those opposite are asking to happen. These are not the individuals. The people in the Town of Bonavista who feel they are pessimistic and they are worried about their future, when they started off by talking about their MHA, Roger Fitzgerald, cannot even get a meeting, who has tried for a meeting with that company for the last four months.

AN HON. MEMBER: That is ridiculous! You have no respect for nothing, not even the Chair.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I say to the Leader of the Opposition, and I do not say this because of me being the member who is sitting in the Chair, but the member knows full well that he cannot refer to members who sit in this Legislature by their name. He must refer to them either by the executive position or by the district that they represent. So, I ask the member to be a little bit more careful of his language and to continue with his debate.

AN HON. MEMBER: And you get your facts right.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have my facts right, and I apologize, Mr. Speaker. I certainly did not mean to mention your name, but I was reading the first line of the paper. I am sorry that I did it and I apologize.

What I am saying is that they have every right to be pessimistic. They have every right to be concerned because they watched them as they picked off this same group of individuals. They watched them as they picked off the people in Harbour Breton while everybody else remained silent. They watched them recently when they picked off the people in Fortune and everyone remained silent, and they watched them recently as they are trying to pick off at least 300 of them in the Marystown fish plant while everyone else stayed silent. I guess they are wondering, who is next? Whether it is going to be Port Union, or if it is going to be Bonavista, or if it is going to be Triton, or if it is going to be Port au Choix. They have every right to be concerned because this government has done absolutely nothing, nothing only talk and talk and talk. That is all they have done about it.

I heard the minister saying we are prepared to charge FPI. They are guilty. We are going to charge them. He has not done that yet. I heard the minister talk about the possibility of bringing in legislation, talking about bringing in legislation and forcing FPI to cross-subsidize their ailing groundfish industry on the South Coast. We hear them that they are prepared to do this and they are prepared to do that, and they have done absolutely nothing. The minister is over there talking about: oh, yes, the judge and the jury. I am not the one who stood in the truck on O'Leary Avenue and said they shipped fish out without permission and they will be charged.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. REID: Well, then I say to the minister, charge them. You do not need - like I said today in the House of Assembly, all you have to determine in your investigation is whether or not you or your colleague, your predecessor, gave them permission because if you did not, then they are guilty, and if they are guilty charge them. That is all that needs to be done. You have been talking about this now for five weeks and you still have not done anything about it. I doubt very much, if we are here for another five, anything will be done about it. If I were a betting man, that is what I would say.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. REID: Do you hear that, Mr. Speaker? I will tell you what, Mr. Speaker, I will make it easy for you because I am not going to continue to stand here tonight -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

This House now stands in recess until members' tempers settle down and until members' come back and realize that there are rules here to be carried out. People must abide on both sides of the House by the rules.

This House is now recessed.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to apologize again for using your name. Mr. Speaker, rather than continue this debate and have to try and yell and scream over the Deputy Premier tonight, and also the Minister of Fisheries, I will sit down and let somebody else speak.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. The Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SWEENEY: Is this going to continue on, Mr. Speaker, or -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am not sure if I want to continue on in the tone and tenor that this House has been under for the past little while here, but nevertheless, I still want to add my comments to the problems that I see that is facing rural Newfoundland. We can shout and bawl, we can get as touchy and (inaudible) however we want, but nevertheless, the bottom line is there are still U-hauls leaving this Province with a lot of our people.

When we talk about all the wonderful things that the Budget held, I am just wondering how all those good things are affecting the people of our Province. I think the underlying question that I ask: Are the people of this Province better off now than they were three years ago? To hear the members opposite speak, you would almost say: Yes, the roads on the Island were paved with gold. But, the reality of it all, Mr. Speaker, I think we can ask the people of Harbour Breton some two years later: Are they better off than they were three years ago when they were down there working and providing for their families? Some may say yes, very sarcastically. Yes, they are working now in Alberta. But that is not what we are all about in this Province.

We, as government members, people involved in the parliamentary process, have a responsibility to our people and that responsibility is to make sure that we provide a positive environment in this Province for people to live and feed their families. I can tell you from what I see outside the Avalon here, and it is not going to last much longer here on the Avalon either, Mr. Speaker, because we have just had a blow dealt to the oil industry.

The House Leader over there says the Avalon is gone, too. Well, I say to the -

MR. E. BYRNE: That is not what I said, sir. I was speaking to my colleague, not to you. I was not interrupting you (inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. E. BYRNE: If you have nothing else to say then do not say anything.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SWEENEY: I did not leave my ears home when I came in here tonight.

Mr. Speaker, the members opposite are touchy, very touchy. It has been proven this past little while. They have been very touchy. You cannot speak. You cannot say what you should be saying here in this House when you speak for the people of this Province.

Well, I tell you there are people in this Province who are worried, very worried. I was at a seal processing facility a few days ago and the manager of the plant said to me: Thank God, we have these few pelts because I do not know what I am going to do for these people this year because I am not so sure we are going to do it on the crab alone here. If that is stretched out, and if words and numbers (inaudible) me, there are 5,000 to 6,000 people who will be in very hard shape after the end of this crab fishery; 5,000 to 6,000 who will not qualify for EI benefits this year. I do not know what contingency this government has for this fall. I do not know, I can tell you that. There are people out there wondering, very concerned about what is going to happen to them this year. Are they going to end up in Alberta?

People are afraid, Mr. Speaker. I sat with a mother, who lost her son, at a remembrance ceremony on Friday. Her son went to Alberta, a young man looking for a good future. How did he come home? He came home in transport. Mr. Speaker, those are the things that we must try to stop in this Province. We have to provide the opportunities for our young people to stay here in this Province.

Last week we celebrated Day of Mourning. This week, today, the minister gets up and gives her minister's statement regarding workplace safety. It is a very important thing, as I said today, but we have to find a way for our young people to find jobs in our workplaces here in the Province. We have to find a way to do that.

You pick up the papers. The Peninsula news headlines: Hope dwindling in Bonavista. How much out there - is there any hope left in a lot of the hearts of some of the people in this Province? The people of Stephenville, how much hope do they have left with their paper mill gone? How much hope do they have? We can talk, we can stand up here, we get our paycheque every two weeks, but, at the end of the day, when you leave here tonight, and when I leave here and go out Kenmount Road and see the U-Haul lot empty again, that was full of trailers a few weeks ago, that tells me that there are people who have gone out of this Province, have taken their possessions - and we haven't had school close yet, Mr. Speaker. Just wait until June, when the kids are finished school, and see the exodus of people out of this Province.

Mr. Speaker, I can tell you one thing: community enhancement programs are not going to solve all the woes that are going to take place in this Province this year. We can be -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SWEENEY: Neither are the comments of the member opposite, Mr. Speaker. Neither are the comments opposite.

We have to think about the people of this Province who are living here and trying to exist on a fixed income, and we have all of them living in our various communities.

Mr. Speaker, we have people here that the government has hired. I understand there are eight or nine new collectors, to collect school tax from these people. I get two or three calls every single day from people saying: I don't owe this money; I have paid this money - but, lo and behold, the collectors still pursue them, send them to collection agencies and try to get the money from them.

Mr. Speaker, the people of this Province are experiencing hardships. The people in my own district are experiencing hardship. I watch communities out there, that are trying to survive, paying extra prices to get their garbage brought to Robin Hood Bay. For a while they were expecting to go to Dog Hill Pond, only to find out that project was cancelled. To couple that with the Truckers' Association, what they are saying about increased fuel in this Province, a crisis with high fuel costs could put the brakes on the economy of this Province.

Well, I can tell you, it is certainly putting the brakes on the communities in my district because the mayors do not want to go back to the taxpayers to increase the taxes that the ordinary consumer and taxpayer out there is paying, so they are trying to balance their budgets the best way they can and still get rid of the garbage in the most economical way possible.

Mr. Speaker, I had the occasion, on Sunday afternoon, to go in the country behind the community of Carbonear, and the woods in there is becoming littered with chesterfield sets, washers, dryers, all of that stuff, that is just being discarded.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, if this wasn't such a serious issue tonight, I would get into some rebuttal with the members opposite, but this is a serious issue, a very serious issue.

I look at the long-term care facility that was destined, that was supposed to be put in Carbonear, but guess what happened, Mr. Speaker? The Alzheimer's unit right now is being shut down and the people, the residents there, are being moved to facilities here in the city.

Well, that is wonderful, I say, Mr. Speaker, because the calls I am getting are saying: How am I going to get to see my wife or my sister? How am I going to get in to see them, with the price of fuel? Senior citizens wanting to go see their loved one, how are they going to get around the bay in the middle of the winter to visit someone that they love and care for? The very fact, Mr. Speaker, of having to go to a facility any time is hard enough, but to add that extra hardship.

Mr. Speaker, these are all real issues. The picture is not as rosy as the members opposite would have you believe. I know of two ladies right now, tonight, who are left unattended throughout the day. They had their home care cut five hours. The temperature dropped and they couldn't turn up, they could not turn up, the thermostat on their own - they can't reach it from their wheelchairs - until their attendant came some time this evening. Mr. Speaker, that is not what caring for people is all about. That is not what caring for people is all about.

Mr. Speaker, insurance reform, another promise that we have not seen materialize yet. Mr. Speaker, I contacted my insurance company a week ago and said: When are we going to get the lower rates? They said: Well, we are adjusting our rates right now, and hopefully we may have some rebate cheques out in a short period of time.

That is a long time ago, with people waiting in hope of getting some money back, because some of them wanted to use that money to keep their cars on the road, to pay for the extra gas. Some of them wanted to do that.

We look at the licence and the fee increases. I don't think there was one thing in this Province that was saved from an increase in fees. Even a death certificate, there was a fee put on the death certificate.

Mr. Speaker, spending $180 to licence a vehicle for a one-year period in this Province, we are the highest in the country to put a car on the road. That is before you put gas in it, before you put insurance on it. These are things that people out there living on a fixed income, the ordinary people, I call them, out there are battling with every day, grappling with those problems. The increased price of food in the stores because of the high gas prices.

You talk about the gentleman today, Jon Summers, President of Newfoundland and Labrador Independent Truckers' Association, talking about the devastating effect the high price of fuel is having on the trucking industry here in this Province. He talks about how many truckers have left this Province because they cannot make a living here.

Mr. Speaker, those are real issues. While we stand here in the House and we shout back and forth and jest each other, those are the things that are happening out there tonight in the communities that we represent. I think those people deserve to have us stand here and speak up, and raise those issues. They deserve every bit of that.

The fishery in this Province, the cloud of doom, the spectre that is hanging over that right now in this Province in communities on the Burin Peninsula and the Bonavista Peninsula. There is nobody out there pounding their chests saying how happy they are. There is nobody out there doing that, pounding their chest and saying: Oh, I'm so happy I'm in the fishery.

Crab right now is less than $1 a pound. That was a billion dollar industry a short while ago, and this year it will be lucky if it will be $100 million. It will be very lucky if it is.

Mr. Speaker, the fishermen are out there with mortgages to pay on their boats. They have crews to pay, if they can find any. They have insurance to pay for, traps and nets, all of those costs, and down to when you are dealing with an industry that is offering the lowest prices ever available. The only thing that is saving some of the fishermen, Mr. Speaker, in this Province right now is the fact that seal pelts are so high, but you can be sure that there will be a time come when that balances itself out. There will be a time when that balances itself out.

It is great, you can take the business attitude here. You can take the business attitude and say, yes, and so it should, or so should that happen, but, at the end of the day, a business attitude is of little consolation to the poor old souls who are trying to get some lunches for their children tomorrow morning and wondering where the next cent is coming from.

I had a call tonight from an individual whose daughter required a special medicine and it was not covered under social services. Do you know what the social worker told the gentleman? Ask you doctor if he has any free samples. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it.

Mr. Speaker, is that what we are about, as representatives of the people of this Province, having that kind of a direction come out from our system? - ask the doctor does he have any free samples because your child is too sick to go to school.

Mr. Speaker, I will ask the question again: Are the people of Harbour Breton better off tonight than they were three years ago? Are the people of Fortune better off tonight than they were three years ago?

AN HON. MEMBER: Marystown.

MR. SWEENEY: The people in Marystown, do they feel as good tonight and are they as well off tonight as they were three years ago?

Lamaline, the people I represent in Salmon Cove and Victoria, Carbonear and Harbour Grace, who look forward to getting enough work at the crab fishery to make sure they sustain their family for the rest of the year - Mr. Speaker, I ask you, what would they say tonight? What would they say?

When the members opposite stand up and talk about the good fortunes that exist in this Province, I just wonder how many people in this Province are experiencing those good fortunes. Mr. Speaker, I think we all have to collectively work at trying to help those we are trying to keep here. We have to encourage them to stay.

When a mother calls me about her son who is in Alberta being harassed, and he wants to quit and come home because of being harassed on the job, and cannot quit because if he quits he will not get any EI when he gets home, you know, that is a problem, Mr. Speaker, that I guess many members opposite probably will not experience until one of those children knocks on your door and shows you that he does not qualify for EI because he quit. Why did he quit? Because of being called such things as stupid Newfie and a lot of other derogatory words which I will not use here in this House.

When a young man twenty years old, with tears in his eyes, starts telling you this stuff - and what makes it better, Mr. Speaker, and more believing, is that, when the investigation is completed, he wins his claim after some hard work.

Mr. Speaker, the people of this Province have to ask themselves, are they any better off than they were a little while ago? The people who worked for FPI when the shares of FPI were $9, over $9 each, could they answer tonight, yes, we are better off now that the shares are down to less than $5 and the company is going to be sold out in bits and pieces, as was the plan with NEOS one? What do you fall back on? Because there is no plan, there is no rural strategy here. We have not seen it. We keep hearing about strategies, keep hearing about plans, Plan A and Plan B. Oh, there is a strategy in place to cover that, we are going to have a strategy. But, do you know what? It is like the Minister of Finance, when he was in Opposition, used to say about the GDP: You can't put that on your bread.

Well, you can't put strategies on your bread either, Mr. Speaker. You can't put strategies on your bread. The people of this Province are looking for more than strategies, because this fall, Mr. Speaker - and I will give government fair warning now, and I don't have to because I know they know what is coming this fall if enough people don't go away - there are going to be an awful lot of people in this Province, and their families, in distress.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank you for your time and the indulgence and also, Mr. Speaker, for keeping the House quiet enough for me to deliver my message.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

AN HON. MEMBER: Now you are going to hear the truth.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, someone just made a comment that now you are going to get the truth. Well, I will tell you one thing, Mr. Speaker, you will get the facts.

The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace was just on his feet, and, Mr. Speaker, I was not planning on getting up to speak tonight but the member opposite, and I think it is common knowledge now, especially in the media, that any releases that go out from the Opposition, they are certainly not factual. As a matter of fact, they are usually misleading and not truthful. The member was on his feet there a few minutes ago and he talked about communities in his district having to bring garbage and truck it to Robin Hood Bay.

Mr. Speaker, when I became Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs two-and-a-half years ago, the government inherited a Waste Management Strategy which that Administration put in place when he was minister in the previous Administration, brought in the very policies that he is now saying are negatively impacting the communities in his district and he tries to put it out there that is was us who were doing these types of things.

Well, the reality is, Mr. Speaker, the Waste Management Strategy that was put in place by the previous Administration to cut 245 dump sites in this Province down to eight, province-wide, was brought in by that Administration. But the problem is, they put no money in place for the short-term - to implement the strategy in the short-term or the long-term. We have been working with the municipalities since we formed the government two-and-a-half years ago, to try and correct that problem. Again, it is putting the cart before the horse. They had no money in place to implement the strategy.

This past year or so, when the previous federal government announced the gas tax rebate to the provinces, I have been working with the Federation of Municipalities to come up with a plan to find the dollars to implement a province-wide Waste Management Strategy. As a matter of fact, the plans that they had in place to cut 240 sites down to eight or ten, a great ambition, Mr. Speaker, but the reality is -

AN HON. MEMBER: Three.

MR. J. BYRNE: Three in the long-term, but eight originally. Looking at the geography of this Province, it was quite unrealistic. What we are saying now is that we have a plan in place with the co-operation of the Newfoundland and Labrador Federation of Municipalities to take 10 per cent of the gas tax money off the top and start implementing the strategy. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, when we formed the government, one of the first things I did was to take the regional government authority, the legislation that went through this House back in 1993 or 1994 by the previous Administration, and we finally put it in place here, as a government, that we could form regional authorities. The first one that was formed was on the Northern Peninsula, Mr. Speaker, to implement the strategy. We have the Waste Management Strategy on the Avalon Peninsula. Out on the West Coast, we have a committee that was in place out there that they could not do anything. They could make all kinds of plans but they could not do anything because they did not have the money.

We are looking at Central Newfoundland. We have had problems in Central Newfoundland. We have the Green Bay site out there and we have the communities coming onside now with that, but for him to get up and try and put it out there that it was our policies that are negatively impacting the waste management in communities in his district is absolutely false. It is misleading, Mr. Speaker, to say the least. I think it is about time that some of the people on that side of the House, when they are up on their feet - and we saw it earlier with the Opposition House Leader, standing and making comments about the wood supply being cut on the Northern Peninsula. He was saying the -

MR. E. BYRNE: There was an increase of 10.8 per cent in harvestability of wood in the Western Region.

MR. J. BYRNE: The minister says there was an increase of 10.8 per cent in the harvestability of wood on the West Coast of Newfoundland and an increase of fibre availability. Getting up again, throwing out all these - facts do not mean anything, Mr. Speaker, to the people on the other side of the House, to most of them anyway, I would say. They get up and make these comments off the cuff, completely misleading. I suppose, don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument. Mr. Speaker, that is the attitude.

I really was not going to get on my feet tonight and say anything about this, but now we are in the situation in this Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, over the next number of years we have $22 million, I think, allocated to go into the Waste Management Strategy. The cost from the previous Administration - they implemented a plan and no money. The cost, they had said it was $200 million to put this in place. Now with the gas tax money, over fifteen years - provided the gas tax money continues to flow from the federal government after the next five years - if it goes to fifteen, we are looking at over $100 million from the gas tax money. We are looking at money from the Province and we are looking at money from the MMSB to total up $200 million to really put the waste management site in place.

Now, there was some opposition. I heard a member, again on the opposite side of the House of Assembly, recently in the media, the Member for the Bay of Islands, talking about Wild Cove and the people in opposition to that. I saw him in the media the other night and it was obvious that he did not have one clue what he was talking about.

The Wild Cove site was first put in operation in 1964. It is serving fifteen communities now as we speak, Mr. Speaker, and these waste management sites are not talking about dumps like is commonly known in the Province; you know, dump sites with gulls flying around and garbage flying around all over the place. We are talking about waste management sites. You are driving on these sites and you would not know that you are on a site where there is garbage being collected. There is recycling involved in this, Mr. Speaker, in these waste management sites.

We had people in this Province - and the former Minister of Environment can attest to this - who were strongly opposed to putting a waste management site out in Central Newfoundland. They happened to go to Nova Scotia, to New Brunswick, looked at the sites and seen the waste management sites, not dump sites, and they are now completely, fully supportive. Not only that, we are talking about creating jobs in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, in rural Newfoundland. So, to get on their feet and say that our policies are negatively impacting people in his district, the communities, and having to truck their garbage to Robin Hood Bay is absolutely false.

What we are planning on doing, as a matter of fact, because we can access this money that took over a year to negotiate - because we can access this money up-front and pay for all the capital of putting these sites in place, it reduces the tipping fee for the municipalities on the other end. That is what we are talking about doing. We are talking about compactor trucks for these areas. For example, out in his district there are probably five or six towns out there in that general area that are trucking waste to Robin Hood Bay. Four or five trucks coming in four or five times a week. Now, I have said to people out in that area, to some of the mayors, that we would try and possibly look at the capital expenditure to purchase compactor trucks. Now you might have one or two trucks coming in once or twice a week. So that would cut the cost down.

Mr. Speaker, for him to get up over there, as they normally do and do not let the facts get in the way, try and throw it over to this side of the House when we are implementing a waste management strategy based on a policy that they put in place, but we are going to tweak it, refine it, make it better, keep the costs down for the communities that are going to be involved. They talked about -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I said three sites all over this Province.

Now, does it make sense to take waste off the Northern Peninsula? Does it make sense to take waste off the Burin Peninsula, Connaigre Peninsula, Bonavista Peninsula, and truck it for hundreds of miles? What we are talking about doing is putting a plan in place that is going to make sense with respect to transportation costs. If you are going to cut down a number of dump sites from 240 down to 120, it is a 50 per cent improvement. If you are going to cut it down to fifteen or twenty, it is a great improvement, but they have to be strategically located.

We have to look at the geography of the Province on the South Coast of Labrador. Does it make sense to take it to one location in Labrador? That is the type of things we are looking at, but the difference is with us, than what they were doing of course, we are strategically planning how to do this. We wanted to get the money in place first, so when we did have a plan we could implement it; that we could say to the people on the West Coast of Newfoundland and Labrador or on the South Coast, or the East Coast, or Labrador: Okay, we have the money now. Let's put the committee in place.

As a matter of fact, I am writing the municipalities as we speak, to ask them to nominate people for the committees that will eventually turn into the regional authorities for the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador to deal with waste in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. It is, I think, the way to go. Some people would think that we are too far behind, but in reality, when you look at what we inherited as a government two-and-a-half years ago, and where we are today and the dealings I have had with the municipalities and the dealings we have had with the Newfoundland and Labrador Federation of Municipalities to put this in place, I think we have come a long way in a short period of time. People want action, and we want action as a government, but, again, you do not put the cart before the horse. If you are going to have a plan, if you are going to put a plan in place, let's put the money there to back it up, Mr. Speaker. So, that is where I am.

I had to stand tonight and correct the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace because I would say to him, when he gets on his feet and he is going to talk about something in this House of Assembly, that he have his facts straight. That he at least consider their policies, what they were doing beforehand, at least consider it. So, to get up and make these kinds of wild statements knowing that - I mean, we are sitting on this side of the House of Assembly. We know what they did in the past. We know what they did not do. We know what they were trying to do. We inherited, we had to work with it. We are improving upon it, no doubt about that, Mr. Speaker. So, I would encourage the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace when he is on his feet to at least - do not take the lead of the Opposition House Leader and throw these statements out there that are not factual by any stretch of the imagination, Mr. Speaker. That is the advice that I would give.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, that is where I wanted to speak on this topic tonight. I was not planning on getting up, I really was not, but when you hear members on the opposite side of the House stand in their place and throw out -

MR. SWEENEY: I am glad you did, Jack. I am glad you did so we could get the truth.

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes. He is glad now that I stood in my place to get the truth. Well, I am glad he understands that, that we on this side of the House tell the truth. What do they say on that side of the House, Mr. Speaker? Obviously, not the truth. He just confirmed that for me. Can you believe it? He actually confirmed that.

MR. E. BYRNE: Jack, what did he say?

MR. J. BYRNE: He said: I'm glad you could get up and tell us the truth. He actually said that. So what was he telling us?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SWEENEY: That's your version.

MR. J. BYRNE: That is what you said. That is not what you said a minute ago, I say to the member. Now he is trying to change his story, as they so often do when they are on their feet.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, with that, I will take my place and maybe someone else might want to get up on that side of the House and not tell us the facts.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. R. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to rise this evening and take part in the debate that is transpiring in the House of Assembly. I would like to talk about a number of things, Mr. Speaker.

Being a representative of an area like Labrador West, when I hear people talking about what is happening in Harbour Breton and other places around this Province today, I may be miles and miles away from that, Mr. Speaker, but I can assure you it was not that many years ago when people in Labrador West went through the same type of adjustment.

In the early 1980s, Mr. Speaker, we were absolutely devastated. Today we are doing quite well and hopefully we will be doing even better in the near future, but there was a time, Mr. Speaker, when Labrador West was equally as devastated.

I can recall, Mr. Speaker, having a workforce in one mine at the Iron Ore Company of Canada of 2,650 unionized employees one year, and two years later having 1,025. There was one street, Mr. Speaker, one street in particular, where there were sixty-eight houses vacant with absolutely no sale value whatsoever. None whatsoever. People had to walk away from their homes and still be on the hook, in many cases, for the $70,000 or $80,000 mortgage, whatever the case might have been, that they paid for their home. So, I can feel a lot of sympathy and I know the anxiety that is going on in places like Harbour Breton today.

It takes time, Mr. Speaker, and it took a lot of time for us to recover. Hopefully, at some point down the road I hope and pray that the people of Harbour Breton will be able to look back at this period and be able to say the same kind of things that I am saying here this evening that happened in Labrador West.

Mr. Speaker, I know that there are areas of this Province that are not doing well, and they are facing some very challenging and difficult times, but, Mr. Speaker, I have to say that in Labrador generally, in my area in particular, things are sort of on the upswing and there are a lot of positive things happening; however, that is not to say that everything there is all well.

As the Minister of Natural Resources knows, there was just a study completed on Wabush Mines and that study, Mr. Speaker, while it may not have told us everything new, it did confirm some of the things that we feared and some of the things that we had talked about for a number of years now about the lifespan of Wabush Mines.

Mr. Speaker, we are dealing with that, because there are options to help Wabush Mines and to allow them to get through this period so that the life of that mine can be extended. I know the minister released a report, and we appreciate that. He had the consultant who did the report come to the area, where we met with him last Saturday. We have follow-up meetings with the minister, and the minister is organizing a meeting between the different parties in Labrador, in Wabush, and the Board of Directors of Cleveland-Cliffs who manage the property.

Hopefully, from that will come a manganese separation plant that will add years and years, to at least 2021, and I am convinced beyond that, with the installation of a manganese separation plant. That will be worked on in the days and weeks to come. We have requested that the Minister of Natural Resources organize and orchestrate a meeting that will take place between the union, the municipalities, the mining companies and government, because everybody has a stake in this and everybody has a right to know what is happening within their place of work.

Mr. Speaker, to get away from the mining a bit, except to say to the minister, and I think he already knows this, that, of all the mining activity that is taking place in Labrador today, none are as important as preserving the life of Wabush Mines. That has to be the top priority for all of us, because Wabush Mines, as it exists today, is much more important, has made a much more valuable contribution, and will continue, than any mine that is not developed and that has the potential to be developed. So we have to focus our energies on doing what can be done to make sure that Wabush Mines and the Town of Wabush is protected for a long time in the future.

Mr. Speaker, we talk about some of the things that have been raised here tonight, like health care. I stood here in this House of Assembly many times over the past seven years talking about the problem experienced by people in our Province in terms of being able to access drugs that they need to treat an illness, particularly those afflicted with MS, those suffering from diabetes, Alzheimer's and other diseases that require very costly drugs.

On Wednesday of this week, I am proud to say that we will be putting forward a private member's statement dealing with this issue, calling upon government to form an all-party committee that would look at the possibility of us doing what every other province and every other jurisdiction in this country has been able to do, Mr. Speaker, and that is come up with a plan that will allow residents of this Province to be able to get the drugs they need, that they do not have to bankrupt themselves or their families in order to purchase drugs needed to treat a disease that they suffer from. Every member, Mr. Speaker, every Member of this House of Assembly, will have an opportunity on Wednesday to vote on that resolution and see if there is an avenue that we can pursue to do the same thing.

Speaking of health care, Mr. Speaker, and it has been announced in the recent Budget that in Labrador West there will be a new medical facility constructed. That, Mr. Speaker, is good news for the area; there is no question about that. The hospital that is there now is in a deplorable condition. It is not easy at the best of times, Mr. Speaker, to attract new doctors and new nurses to any medical facility in this Province, but hopefully with a new hospital it will make it much easier, because I cannot think of anyone who would have been really interested in going to work in the existing facility that is there today.

The same thing, Mr. Speaker, with travel from Labrador. I have talked to the minister about the problem that exists now. There have been some great changes made to the medical transportation program over the last couple of years but, Mr. Speaker, we find that there are still people experiencing problems, and I have talked to the minister about this. People, a lot of times, do not have the ability to have the money up front to purchase the airline tickets that they need to travel. While the government subsidy is a good one, and it is a great improvement over what existed before, some people still need upfront help in order to be able to get to a hospital that costs them $1,000 or $900 in order to travel. I have had discussions, as I said, with the minister, and hopefully we will put our heads together and try to work out a resolution to the problems that people experience at the present time.

There have also been, Mr. Speaker, great moves made in the area of intra-Labrador medical travel with regard to the ability now for people from my district, for the first ever, to be able to travel to the hospital in Goose Bay for services that are not available in Labrador West, for the same price as everyone else in Labrador could do it for many, many years. That was a long outstanding injustice, Mr. Speaker, that needed to be corrected, and I am glad to see that government took the initiative to do that during last year's Budget.

Mr. Speaker, there are still many other challenges that face us in Labrador, and that is probably one of the reasons why I like the job that I have today, as the MHA for that area, because it gives me an opportunity to become involved in trying to work with government to effect change that is needed in order to bring the changes about.

It is a challenge, Mr. Speaker, there is no question about it, but it is a challenge that I feel proud to be a part of; and, after having success in a number of areas, I know that there is still room for improvement and still things that need to be continuously worked on because of the way things change.

With the new issues that we face in policing in Labrador West, for years now we have been understaffed. I am not going to say too much, waste too many words, on the former Chief of Police, but I can say this, Mr. Speaker, that, with the new appointment of Chief Joe Brown, I think it is a breath of fresh air into the policing and justice system in our Province today. I am glad to be able to stand here this evening and say that the detachment in Labrador West will be receiving five new officers pretty well immediately, and that has been needed for a long, long time. While it is not the exact number that we were after, I am confident that this will at least give them some breathing room until they can get the numbers that they require to bring it up to what it used to be back in the early 1980s.

Mr. Speaker, we have a lot of new potential for mining development in Labrador, and around the area of Labrador West in particular. There is a LabMag project that has potential. There is another development in Quebec but pretty close to Labrador West, called Bloom Lake, and that also has a good potential, from all reports. We are looking forward, Mr. Speaker, to these new developments coming on stream and providing many job opportunities for people in Labrador and for people of this Province because, if these activities that are being pursued on the mining front today come to fruition within the next two to three years, there will be more than enough jobs for the current people in Labrador and there will be excellent job opportunities for people from other parts of this Province as well; but I might add, Mr. Speaker, the last time that the mining industries in Labrador found themselves in this position where they needed workers, they did not find them in the Province. They did not find them in the country. They had to go to Europe on a recruitment drive and go to Portugal, Spain and Italy, and hire tradespeople to come to Labrador to work. That is not that long ago, Mr. Speaker, probably around thirty years, in the mid-1970s. Hopefully, that will not have to be repeated. Hopefully, there will be enough people in this Province who would want to move to Labrador and make that their home.

Mr. Speaker, there are areas of this Province that have some very challenging times ahead of them. We have our challenges in Labrador, in Labrador West in particular. We have our challenges, Mr. Speaker, but we are meeting them, and hopefully we will continue to make improvements and deal with the challenges that we have, and make life better for the people who live in Labrador as each year passes by.

I know we won't fix everything at the one time, Mr. Speaker, but it is important to pick certain issues and work on them until such time as we have them resolved and then move on to others. Everything will not be done at once but, Mr. Speaker, I am confident that Labrador has a bright future and I think that this Province has a bright future as well.

With the stand that the Province has taken against the oil companies, and insisting on an equity share, it is something that I fully support, Mr. Speaker. If somebody said tonight that this project will be set back by a year or two years or three years as a result of that decision, then I still support it, Mr. Speaker, because I would much rather for that one project to be set back a year or two than the entire Province set back for fifty years. That is what it would mean, so I fully support the initiative that is taken by insisting upon an equity share into the offshore oil reserves.

Mr. Speaker, I can go on longer but I realize the hour and I will have other opportunities to speak. I can say, Mr. Speaker, in closing, that in Labrador West, at the present time, I do not believe that there has been a period in our history where so much attention has been paid. When we talk about a new college, when we talk about a new hospital, when we talk about roadwork and repair, when we talk about paving the Trans-Labrador Highway, when we talk about the college offering additional courses, when we look at the new mineral activity that is going to be happening there, then I would say the future does look bright, Mr. Speaker. I certainly hoped that it looked this bright for all of the rest of the Province, and hopefully there will come a day when that will happen.

I conclude my remarks, Mr. Speaker, and thank you for the opportunity to speak.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Continuing debate?

The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to stand again tonight and have an opportunity to respond to the Budget.

I am just wondering, at 10:12 in the night, before the Easter break we heard it said around the Province that a lot of our cancer patients could not get the cancer treatment that they needed at the Health Sciences Centre, the Bliss Murphy Cancer Treatment Centre here in St. John's. I am just wondering if our Minister of Health can give us an update on that matter and let us know how many people have been sent out of the Province for cancer treatment, and what is the status now with hiring new oncologists for our cancer department, the Bliss Murphy Centre.

I am surprised, with all the money that has been designated for health care in our Province, that we should still have people waiting on stretchers in a lot of our facilities around the Province. I know that is the case, particularly at the Health Sciences Complex here in St. John's. With $46 million extra this year for health care, I am really shocked to hear that we are having to send our cancer patients out for treatment. I did think that all of that would have been looked after by now, and we would have our people trained, we would have had incentives in place to hire new people, and we would have the facilities ready for providing cancer treatment.

As we know, once a person is diagnosed with cancer, the immediate question that comes in their mind is: When can I begin treatment? A day lost in treating cancer is really to the detriment of the patient, so I would really like to have an update on whether or not our cancer patients are being sent out.

Earlier tonight, I mentioned the fact that there is not a treatment available in our Province right now for colon cancer treatment, a first-line treatment, and it is available in other provinces in Canada. That is another reason why I would like to hear from the Minister of Health and find out what the situation is with that, and when can we expect this colon cancer treatment here in our Province.

Today I received a telephone call from a constituent in my district, a lady who is seventy-five years old, and she gets six and a half hours of home care per day. She is a lady who has had four bypasses, she is a diabetic, and she is now living with her son who has a vision impairment. It is not a healthy situation. She has tried to get new home care hours extended to her situation without any luck. I know that in this past Budget the Minister of Finance stood in this House and he said there would be more money for home care, but we are not seeing that yet.

It was only a couple of days ago I was having a chat with three young men who are from the Marystown area actually, and they had to give up the thoughts of working in the plant and head out to Ontario. Those people are young people who work on bridge reconstruction in Ontario. It was so disappointing to hear from one young man. One young man had two vessels, he was a fisherman from Marystown. He said, at this point he just can't make a living in the fishing industry, and he had to put his license on hold that was grandfathered down to him by his father and his family. He said he just couldn't make enough money from fishing and he had to go away with the other two young men from his community and take a job that is actually a high risk job, where you climb those big bridges and you are doing repairs, reconstruction, all the time on those big bridges.

He was telling me that he had an initial period of where he was actually getting used to heights, and he said, at the end of three weeks he had to make a decision, was he going to climb the height of that bridge which was 170 feet. Even though he would climb a mast on his fishing vessel, he didn't have that fear when he was on the water, but to climb a bridge 170 feet up into the air, it took a lot of nerve. At the end of three weeks, he had a decision to make, whether or not he was going to be able to sustain that kind of work in Ontario, doing that kind of work, bridge reconstruction. He said, he fought with it but he did manage to overcome that fear, and now he is working in Ontario with - I think there are seven from Marystown along with him who work on bridge reconstruction. The money is good - high risk - $32 an hour, he was telling me.

Newfoundlanders are good workers, and they are known to be good workers all across the country. He said it is not unusual for him and his buddies to work at least eighty hours a week. Now, that is a lot of work and a lot of time at a high-risk job, and how much sleep do you get when you are working eighty hours a week and you are doing a high-risk job every day of the week. So, they are gone away for months on end from their families and then, when the season is over, they are back and they are on EI, then, until work starts up again in the spring.

He was saying, and they were saying, that it is a different lifestyle than what they had been accustomed to. Having to leave their family and find a job somewhere else when he looks and his boats are tied up to the wharf and there is nothing for him in the fishing industry that his family and his forefathers did for years. So, that is another glimpse of reality into the situation in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

It is a sad reality. I don't know, it seems like there is very little emphasis being put on the situation in rural Newfoundland and Labrador, and that is the backbone of our economy no matter how we cut it. We will have oil for several years but, you know, that industry will dry up in the future and we will eventually go back to what we started, which was the fishing industry, and hopefully there will be an industry there that we can count on; but, when I look in the Economy book for this year, it is also disheartening to see how our fishing industry has gone down, when we had an industry here in this Province that was worth a billion dollars a year to our economy and last year it was worth $400 million. That says a lot. There are a lot of people who are not in the fishing industry who were in it ten years ago and twenty years ago.

How does that affect the urban communities? Well, you know, it affects communities like the largest one in my district a whole lot. Grand Falls-Windsor depended so much, and we still do, on the fishing industry, whether it be the Northeast Coast, the Northern Peninsula, and particularly the South Coast when you look at Harbour Breton.

Harbour Breton, a vibrant community it used to be, and there was so much pride in the community of Harbour Breton and everything was so well-kept and the people who worked and lived there were so proud of their community. It was not uncommon to see loads of people from Harbour Breton into the mall, into the paint shop, into the lumber businesses and so on, picking up materials in the spring of the year and getting ready to spruce up their property. I have heard it said in recent weeks that the saddest part of all was the people of Harbour Breton passing back their homes to bank, passing back their homes to the bank before they left in their U-Hauls and pulled out of Harbour Breton.

Do you know how honest the people in Harbour Breton were? The made the very last payment on their homes to the bank before they gave them the keys. That is the kind of pride, honesty, and depth of character that the people in rural Newfoundland and Labrador have. The houses were immaculately clean, and they made the very last payment they could on the house before they turned over the keys to the bank. That says a lot about the people. That is a heartbreaking situation, when you come to think about it, many families that have put their blood, sweat and tears into a home, spent a lifetime trying to improve their home, improve their property and make it comfortable for their families, hopefully to retire and be able to enjoy their retirement years where they had their homes and so on.

For people like that to have to pick up and turn the keys back to the bank and turn off the power, that must be so heartbreaking. A lot of those people, too, had mortgages and they had no choice. If you cannot make your mortgage payment, what do you do? Of course, the banks now are in a rough spot as well because the banks are owed a lot of money and the biggest lender of any of the banks in Harbour Breton was the Bank of Commerce. They had a sub-branch through the Bank of Commerce in Grand Falls. As you can well imagine, that particular bank now has a lot of homes in Harbour Breton that they have foreclosed on mortgages and they are going to be out quite a bit of money.

I guess the hard part of all that, you know, we will see, in years to come, people from other countries, probably from other parts of Canada and other parts of the world, come into places like Harbour Breton. They will look at a closed-up house in excellent condition and they will buy it for a song. They will have a quaint little property in what was once rural Newfoundland. They will set up, they will love it and they will enjoy it, and the person who owned that house is probably out in Alberta saddled with a big mortgage, or they might be out in Fort McMurray, living in someone's garage that was renovated to accommodate borders, or they might be living in substandard housing, because housing is a big problem in Fort McMurray, Yellowknife, and those places that people go to make a quick dollar, whereas they could have enjoyed the comforts of their home in Harbour Breton - and now look at Fortune. What is going to happen to Grand Bank? What is going to happen to Bonavista? What is going to happen to Triton? It is a nightmare unravelling before our eyes.

Sometimes we get caught up in the fact that you are here in the House of Assembly, everything is busy on the Northeast Avalon, but, for all of that, if our oil industry dries up here, and it will - our oil industry will dry up here, particularly if there is no new development and there are no new projects at hand - what do you do when the oil runs out?

Already, with the no deal for Hebron/Ben Nevis, businesses that were geared up to make money and service that new project are now in a state of disarray. Many businesses that were hoping to sell to that particular industry and provide service to that industry are out now with lines of credit through banks, that they had bought in equipment in anticipation of that project going ahead. Real estate was at its highest value around town. You can look where you like, and there is nothing but new construction in this area. Will that trend continue? Will that trend continue, even on the Northeast Avalon, if there are no new oil projects in the wings?

Then, if our fishery, which is already in a tailspin, if there is no resolve in sight for our fishery - you can look beyond the next election, because right now things look pretty good. You have Atlantic Accord money, you have high oil prices, but what new industry is waiting in the wings to start up in this Province? I would like for someone to be able to stand and tell me what new industry is waiting right now to look at a big project where you can have a massive infusion of new workers and new tradespeople, and people wanting housing.

Unfortunately, we have a new industry that government did not pay any attention to, that will bring some relief to some of the out-migration problems we are experiencing. It is unfortunate that the Minister of Transportation and Works was not at the Cabinet table or did not have much clout when making decisions on roadwork. That is unfortunate, because I do believe that if the Premier were to drive over the Buchans Highway he would be the first one to get on the phone and talk to his minister and say: Look, this is a gift horse looking us in the face here. We are taking out income tax on 200 permanent jobs from Millertown, and we are going to have income tax on another forty-five jobs on the barite plant in Buchans. Not only that, there is going to be tax paid on every piece of equipment, every service product that is supplied to those two industries. He would say: Minister of Transportation and Works, where was your head when you were thinking about doing roadwork, when you know very well that our Minister of Industry, Trade and Rural Development is spending $45 million in her department and she has not created one job yet in three years. Here you are, sitting on $1 million. In fact, Mr. Transportation and Works Minister, there was $76 million left on the table when everything was said and done and paid for this budget year. How come you can't find $1 million to do the roadwork on the Buchans Highway? There is something wrong here. This puzzle is not adding up.

We have a Minister of Industry, Trade and Rural Development. She has a budget of $45 million, and all I could see in her book that she gave to everybody last year was the fact that she had created nine regional councils. Then she got provincial councils, and she got deputy ministers' committees on regional development. Now, all she has is people and committees and that is all she has. She doesn't have a job to show for it. Now, she has a budget of $45 million, and 152 employees, and not a job has she created in three years.

Now, if I were the Premier of this Province, I think I would examine that department. Yes, I think I would examine that department and I would say - well, now, you are supposed to work hand in hand. If someone has a good idea - and I heard someone. I can't remember which minister was up today and talked about how they were going to restore the infrastructure to rural Newfoundland because, if you do not have good infrastructure, how can you attract good business? Now, which minister said that today, I wonder? I don't think it was the Minister of Transportation and Works. One minister got up on their feet today and said that.

Now, if all of you ministers were working together, and you were paying attention to your commitment that the - the Premier says he is committed to rural Newfoundland and Labrador. He says that but I wonder, does he mean it? I don't think he means it, because if the Premier was committed to rural Newfoundland and Labrador he would make sure that the Buchans Highway was going to be able to be in good condition so that heavy equipment could go over it.

I talked about a man who came down in an ambulance from Buchans, and his wife was frightened to death that the intravenous was going to come out of his arm because the road was so rutted and so on. They were afraid he was going to have the intravenous come out of his arm. In fact, the nurse that accompanied him sent me an e-mail, too. I wrote her back and I said, you know, I don't understand it. I said it would be different if this government had no money and they were stretching a dollar and they could not do it, but when you have a government that forecasted a deficit of $1 billion, just about, two years ago, and now has a surplus and everything is paid off, and they left $76 million in extra money they had surplus, they could not spend it in time. The Finance Minister was running out like a chicken with his head cut off, trying to put through special warrants and spend all the money he could. He did the best he could to try and spend the money but he could not; there was $76 million he could not spend. So, instead of putting $1 million of that on the Buchans Highway, he decided to plow it back into general revenue because they were all at a loss. They sat around the Cabinet table for hours on end and, as hard as they tried, they still, after all the spending was done, could not come up with another $76 million to spend. As a result of that, they had to plow that back into general revenue.

Little did they consider the area that was going to give them more money to work with again next year. Income tax on -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MS THISTLE: Well, thank you for this opportunity to speak, Mr. Speaker. I know I will have another opportunity again tomorrow.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to be able to rise again this evening to make another few observations on the Budget, on Concurrence Debate. Certainly, Mr. Speaker, after listening to the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans again this evening - I must say, she moves me, she inspires me. She inspires me to get up and have a few words and make a few observations.

She was wondering where my head was, Mr. Speaker, wondering where my head was now. Where was my head because I am not spending $1 million on the Buchans Highway this year. Mr. Speaker, I would have to ask: Where was her head when she was the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board? Where was her head when she was a Minister of the Crown for seven years, I believe it was? I would have thought by now she would have had the Buchans Highway done, Mr. Speaker. The road didn't just magically deteriorate in the last twelve months. It certainly didn't deteriorate all of the sudden since November when I became minister, Mr. Speaker.

MS THISTLE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A point of order is called by the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to make it known for the Minister of Transportation and Works, that every year I was the minister I had work done on the Buchans Highway, and it is only since the big equipment - in the past three years you haven't spent any money. That is where the trouble is. You need to spend money on that highway every year.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The Chair recognizes the Minister of Transportation and Works.

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans, if she did work for every year, seven years, what did she do? Send the crew in? What, did she send her brother in with a wheelbarrow and a shovel, Mr. Speaker? That must have been what she did, because over seven years you would think that she would have had most of the work done, if that is it. She didn't spend it on the Trans-Canada in that district, because if she did, the number one priority -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TAYLOR: - of the Department of Transportation and Works wouldn't be the $600,000 job that we are going do on the highway this year. She talks about that not being in rural Newfoundland. Well, Mr. Speaker, as far as I know that piece of Trans-Canada Highway, I don't know if there is any house along side of it. I mean, I drive that one at least ten times a year. I pass over that piece of highway.

MS THISTLE: (Inaudible) from St. John's to the Northern Peninsula.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TAYLOR: I fly a fair bit, I say to the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans. I find it a much more effective use of my time, to get aboard of a plane and fly for an hour to St. Anthony to my district than to get aboard of a car and spent twelve hours driving across, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: I find that I get more work done for the government and more work done for my constituents if I fly back and forth, Mr. Speaker. I suspect that is what she would do if she were travelling to the Northern Peninsula. As a matter of fact, I believe that is how they showed up when the election was on the go back a few years ago. It was like Armageddon, three helicopters coming in over the hills in Roddickton when they thought they were losing the seat back in the winter of 2001.

I listened to the members here this afternoon and this evening. I listened to the Member for Twillingate & Fogo, I just listened to the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans again now, and it is hard to believe that today and tonight these members are standing up, waving the flag for rural Newfoundland and Labrador, waving the flag for the FPI plant workers, the same people, Mr. Speaker, who five years ago, about this time, were sitting over here. The Member for Twillingate & Fogo was sitting there where the Member for St. George's-Stephenville East is sitting right now, Roger Grimes was the Premier sitting down right there, and what happened? John Risley, Derek Rowe, John Crosbie - I am not sure exactly all of the names now - came to town, they were going to takeover the Board of FPI.

AN HON. MEMBER: Bill Barry.

MR. TAYLOR: No, Bill Barry was not one of them at the time. Bill was back in 1999, in the NEOS deal. Bill was not one of them.

However, Mr. Speaker, it does not change the fact that today they have all kinds of questions about FPI. They were into the what if's there this afternoon in Question Period, and they were into the what if's when we were in debate this afternoon. I will ask this question, Mr. Speaker, and this is a question, I think, that the people on the shop floor at FPI, the people on the ground in Harbour Breton, the people in the plant in Fortune, the people in Marystown, Catalina, Port Union, Bonavista, Triton and Port au Choix probably are asking, Mr. Speaker: What if Roger Grimes had enough interest to ask a question? What if, when John Risley and them came to town and visited the eighth floor, visited the Premier's office, he had asked some questions? Instead he said: No, I did not have interest enough to ask a question. I thanked them very much for their time and I sent them on their way. That is what they said five years ago, Mr. Speaker. That is what happened five years ago when they were the government. Today, they have all of the solutions. Today, they are full of condemnation for the government. Today, they are full of condemnation for the very people who they had no interest in asking questions of five years ago. What hypocrisy! What hypocrisy, Mr. Speaker! The very same people.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) Harbour Breton.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, the Member for Twillingate & Fogo, it is fitting that it is just after Easter because he reminds me of Pontius Pilate. He is washing his hands, Mr. Speaker, and he is turning the people over to somebody else, letting somebody else look after it. If he had enough interest, if he had enough sense, if he had enough interest at the time, if he had enough knowledge about the fishing industry, Mr. Speaker, he might have asked some questions back then.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TAYLOR: Yes, I say to the Member for Twillingate & Fogo, as it relates to the fishery today, we have crab at 98 cents a pound and we have shrimp probably averaging somewhere around 40 cents a pound. I am just going to ask him this now, Mr. Speaker: This time last year he had me and RMS to blame it all on when it was $1.50 a pound and it was fifty cents a pound for shrimp. Well I am gone and RMS is gone, so who does he have to blame it on now? The market, Mr. Speaker, is dictating what is happening in the fishing industry, so he can blame the Americans for what is happening with crab. If he wants to look at what is going on with shrimp, I guess he can blame the Europeans because of the European union tariff. He can blame the Americans because of what is happening to our dollar or he can blame the oil industry for what is happening to our dollar. That is what he can blame it on, because that is the fact. That is what is happening to our industry, our Canadian dollar up at ninety cents a pound.

It was easy to be a fisheries minister when he and Mr. Effort and the likes of them were in government. It was easy to be a minister of fisheries when crab was going through the roof, when the resource was increasing, when the shrimp quota went from zero in the north for the less than sixty-five foot fleet to over 142 million pounds last year, I believe it was. It was easy then. If they had taken the time, like we were trying to do now with our strategies - and they make fun of strategies. If they had put a strategy in place to deal with the fishing industry back then, maybe we would not be in the position that we are in, in rural Newfoundland today. Maybe we would not have the overcapacity.

They condemned me last year for saying that there were too many boats and too many plants. The very same people are looking for fleet rationalization, plant rationalization and early retirement. The very same people, Mr. Speaker, who were ready to hang me last year are saying the exact same thing. Hypocrisy! Nothing short of hypocrisy!

Mr. Speaker, we look at the deteriorated state of the road. I do not disagree. I say this, I do not disagree with the people from Buchans. I do not disagree with the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans, but I will say that we have a $60 million roads budget, and if they had a $60 million roads budget when they were in government, maybe the Buchans Highway would have been done when the minister was sitting there, when she had her chance. She had her chance to do the Buchans Highway.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: When the members opposite can sit down and point out to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador and point out to us, point out to the people who sit on this side of the House right now, the investment in infrastructure, rural infrastructure, that they have made and show how it stacks up against the investment that we have committed to making, and that we are making, that we laid out in this Budget this spring, in our Throne Speech this spring, our infrastructure strategy - over $2 billion over six years that we are going to invest in schools, over $37 million in the K-12 system alone, over $60 million into the provincial roads budget, $142 million in total we are going to spend on roads this year, Mr. Speaker. Do you want to go back and compare that to their record, Mr. Speaker, when we took over? Twenty-three million miserable dollars is what they put into the roads. We are up just about three times.

AN HON. MEMBER: That was the election year.

MR. TAYLOR: And that was the election year. For the love and honour of God! Unbelievable, Mr. Speaker!

They talk about what they did not do. I will tell you what they did not do, Mr. Speaker. I will tell you what they did not do.

MS JONES: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TAYLOR: I will tell you what they did not do in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. I will tell you about the renal dialysis unit that they did not put in St. Anthony, Mr. Speaker, that they committed to in 2000. They did not put it there because they did not want to put it there. The Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair can make all of the excuses she likes, and she will try to blame it on the Grenfell Health Board, she will try to blame it on the management at the hospital in St. Anthony, they will try to blame it on John Budgell, they will try to blame it on the board, they will try to blame it on the staff at the hospital, but the bottom line, Mr. Speaker, is this: They were the government, and if they wanted to put the money and a renal dialysis unit in St. Anthony in 2001 they would have put it there.

Why didn't it go there, Mr. Speaker? I will tell you why it did not go there.

AN HON. MEMBER: Did it have something to do with a by-election?

MR. TAYLOR: I think it might have had something to do with a by-election. It might have had something to do with two by-elections. When they got kicked off the Northern Peninsula, Mr. Speaker, in the winter of 2001, when they lost The Straits & White Bay North for the first time in history and the St. Barbe District for one of the very few times in history, they looked around and said, the people on the Northern Peninsula are going to pay for this. They did not put the renal dialysis unit in the hospital in St. Anthony.

MS JONES: What a lot of foolishness he is getting on with there.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TAYLOR: That is a fact.

Mr. Speaker, the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair will have her opportunity, to get up and speak. She will have her opportunity to get up and speak later on.

Mr. Speaker, we have made our commitment on renal dialysis and we made our commitment last week on the call centre that is going in St. Anthony. Where is that? I listened to the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans. Boy, oh boy, oh boy! It would really, really make you wonder - no, you don't have to wonder when you listen to some of what comes out of them about how this Province ended up in the state that it did through the 1990s. You do not have to wonder, you do not have to think about it very long, I can guarantee you that, Mr. Speaker.

To listen to them say that we are not doing anything in rural Newfoundland and Labrador - unbelievable! I will just say to her, and I do not like to step into the fisheries and aquaculture side too much, but I will just say, because they keep bringing up Harbour Breton: I wonder what if they had put an aquaculture working capital loan guarantee program in like the industry was crying for, crying for when we took over government? We took over government and at the very first meeting with the Newfoundland Aquaculture Industry Association, I said: What is your number one priority? Feed financing. Well, it took us just about a year to get the program put in place, but the program is in place, and as a result of that we see some new investment in the industry on the South Coast.

What is going to happen? The Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture this year, as part of the Budget, got a $10 million fund to support the growth of the aquaculture industry. Where, Mr. Speaker? Well, boy, I can tell you, I don't see any salmon cages down in St. John's Harbour. I didn't see any salmon cages or mussel farms out in Humber Arm the last time I was in Corner Brook. It is going to be on the South Coast. It is going to be in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. It is going to be in Green Bay, it is going to be in Placentia Bay, and it is going to be in Harbour Breton, Mr. Speaker. That is where it is going to be. That is an investment in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

The road work that is being done on Fogo Island this year - last time I checked, I don't think there is any downtown in Fogo. I don't think there is either suburban Fogo, Mr. Speaker. I would say that is a fairly rural area; last time I checked it anyway. It has been about five years since I was out there. It was rural then and I don't think it has grown a whole lot since, Mr. Speaker.

MS THISTLE: Have you ever been to Buchans, that is what I would like to know.

MR. TAYLOR: No, I say to the member, I haven't been to Buchans, but I have been on a good many roads in this Province and I know how many trucks go over the Northern Peninsula Highway. I say to the Member for Buchans, and I just remind her, that there are a lot of highways in this Province that have a whole lot of heavy traffic going over them. That, Mr. Speaker, is why we increased our budget for the Provincial Roads Program to $60 million. We didn't spend $6 million on the roads this year, Mr. Speaker. We are not spending $6 million for the total budget like she did in 1996 or 1997, her and her government. She might have even been the Minister of Finance at the time. I am not sure.

MR. E. BYRNE: President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: No, she was (inaudible).

MR. TAYLOR: Okay, she was the President of the Treasury Board.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, I don't know - they are rudderless, leaderless, they don't know where they are going because they don't know where they came from. They are here today talking about what is not being done in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. Well, Mr. Speaker, the seeds of the demise of rural Newfoundland and Labrador were sown under their watch, and you reap what you sow. It is going to take some time for us to deal with the problems in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. It is going to take some time, Mr. Speaker, but it will be done. We are trying. No, we are not having success everywhere, but, Mr. Speaker, we are trying and we are making the investments in the infrastructure.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to know, and what you really have to ask, is: What is it that they stand for? Because I listened a few minutes ago, again, to the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans, and I listened to the Leader of the Opposition, the Member for Twillingate & Fogo, talking about the Hebron deal or the lack thereof. Mr. Speaker, they are all critical because we did not get a deal on Hebron. What kind of a deal would they like us to have signed? Do they support us having an equity position on the Hebron development? Do they support us having a better royalty arrangement? Do they support us having the engineering work done in Newfoundland and Labrador? Do they support those types of things, or do they support any deal; just get a deal for the sake of getting a deal, just get a deal so that we can say we got a deal? That is where they are.

If you think back, Mr. Speaker, to about eighteen months ago, I guess it was, you do not have to wonder what kind of deal they would accept. You do not have to think back very far. All you have to do is look back to the Atlantic Accord negotiations. What were we told? What was their position? One point four billion. We were looking a gift horse in the mouth when we turned it down they said. We should have taken the cheque and run as fast as we could back home from Ottawa. That is the kind of deals they want. What did we get? A minimum $2 billion up front, cash on the barrelhead and a probability, Mr. Speaker, of a lot more by the time it is all said and done.

Those are the kinds of deals they did, Mr. Speaker. As I said there this afternoon, they did deals on rust buckets from Estonia. Those are the kinds of deals they do. They will run off and do a deal so they can get a quick fix. That is not what we are into this for, Mr. Speaker, we are trying to have a lasting impact on the Province, a lasting impact to fix the problems that they left behind. We are not running off to Ottawa looking for $160 million on Term 29 so that we can bail ourselves out.

They talk about the financial position of the Province today. Listen to the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans, again, there a little while ago. Yes, we left $76 million on the table this year. At the end of the year we had a $76 million surplus. An awful thing! It is probably the first time in our history. Now, as I recall - and I could be wrong, somebody can correct me - but as I recall, when they were the government, under Mr. Tobin, I could have sworn I heard them talking about surpluses. I am sure. I was not in politics then, I was fishing then or I was working with the union or whatever. I cannot remember exactly what it was now. I cannot remember exactly the size of the surplus, but they were all talking, for I think it was two or three years in a row, about balanced budgets, surpluses. Now, Mr. Speaker, you cannot have it both ways. Either you had a surplus back then and you did not invest your money in infrastructure, which is what we are doing - we have a surplus and we are investing in infrastructure and in drug programs and schools and what have you.

What did they do? They said they did not have the cash to do it. Well, what is it? Were you telling us the truth back then, or are you telling us the truth now? It cannot be the truth today that you did not have the money, and also be the truth back then when you said you did have the money. It does not work that way, Mr. Speaker. They are so good at talking out of both sides of their mouth that after a while they even forget the initial story. They forget what story they started off on, so they end up tripping themselves up. So quick to try and manipulate the situation, so quick to try and change it around.

Mr. Speaker, I do not know where they are going. It would really make you wonder why Jim Bennett would even want to lead them. I am not sure why he would want to lead them. I am not sure who over there is trying to sow the seeds of his demise. I figure that they must have managed to haul the knives out of John Effort's back and get him cleaned up and now have them ready for Jim. I do not know now, but apparently there is supposed to be - I think the leader gave some kind of an ultimatum to them, so I heard. I am not sure how accurate this is, but is from a pretty good source anyway.

MR. J. BYRNE: The former member for Placentia (inaudible).

MR. TAYLOR: Yes, they should take the advice of the former Member for Placentia too, they should, and shut up.

AN HON. MEMBER: I heard he was going to fire them all.

MR. TAYLOR: I do not know if he is going to fire them all, but I understand that if they do not haul themselves in line within the next couple of days -

AN HON. MEMBER: They have until Friday.

MR. TAYLOR: Yes, they have until Friday and names are going to be named.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is expired.

MR. TAYLOR: By leave, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been requested. Has leave been granted?

AN HON. MEMBER: No.

MR. SPEAKER: No leave.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I was not going to get up at this late hour in the evening, because it is past my bedtime now, in the family friendly session of the House of Assembly, Mr. Speaker, when we should all be home having our cup of tea and getting ready for bed.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, I guess the minister opposite, the Minister of Transportation, the Member for The Straits & White Bay North, no doubt incited me this evening to my feet, and now I will not get to sleep at all. I would say I am going to be up half the night after I am finished here.

To listen to him speak this evening, talking about the fishery, talking about Roger Grimes five years ago in this House of Assembly, well I want to remind the minister of something, and that is that it was not under Roger Grimes' leadership as the Premier of this Province that Harbour Breton closed down; absolutely not. Nor was it under his leadership that FPI fell apart, Mr. Speaker, and went to the shambles that it is in today. It certainly was not, Mr. Speaker. It was not Roger Grimes, Mr. Speaker, who was sitting as the Minister of Fisheries or the Premier of this Province when Fortune plant was closed down or when the decision was made to haul the workers out of the Marystown plant.

In fact, Mr. Speaker, it is so ironic that that minister tonight could be standing in his place and saying what he is saying, when I would say he is probably the only fisheries minister ever in our history who had to have an armed guard to get home for supper.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: That is the truth, Mr. Speaker. He is about the only one that I have ever known of. I have left this House day in and day out, Mr. Speaker, when fisheries workers were in this gallery, day in and day out, while the minister met his armed guard in the lobby to take him home for supper. So, he is someone to stand here this evening and to talk about other governments and other Premiers and other ministers in terms of how they managed the fishery.

I just want to remind him, Mr. Speaker, in the calmest way and fashion that I can, that it was not under Roger Grimes leadership that FPI fell apart and put hundreds of workers out of work in this Province in Harbour Breton, in Fortune, in Marystown and who knows where it is going to end.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: I want to remind him of that and I want to remind him of a few other things too, Mr. Speaker. He got up this evening and he talked about a number of issues, but he talked about the money that is being invested in highways. I notice that, on that side of the House it is that minister who stands all the time to talk about the Budget, because no doubt there is a substantial amount of money in the Budget this time being allocated to roads. Mr. Speaker, he gets up and talks about when we were in government and the fact that we only put $22 million into roads in this Province in one year. Well, Mr. Speaker, let me tell you this, it was not a Liberal government that went out and brought in hundreds of fees to taxpayers in this Province and collected $27 million in revenues coming out of the pockets of taxpayers in communities all around this Province-

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: - asking them for $180 for a driver's licence, $150 to get an ambulance to a hospital. No, it was not a Liberal government, Mr. Speaker, that did that. Maybe if we had done that we would have raised $27 million more on the backs of the taxpayers in this Province as well, and we would have spent $49 million in roadwork, may I suggest. Or, better yet, Mr. Speaker, maybe we could have closed down the highway depots like the government opposite did. Maybe we could have went out and laid off over 100 workers in depots around this Province every summer, sent them home with their pink slips - which is happening actually right now or will happen in the next couple of weeks, where hundreds of them will get their pink slips, sent home with no job and no income. Maybe we could have did that, Mr. Speaker.

Maybe we could have done like the brilliant Minister of Education did when she was the minister for social services and went out and closed down the social services offices in the Province. The poorest people in our Province, leaving them with no services. Giving them a 1-800 number to call, to talk to a call centre somewhere. I do not think it is even in the country. It may be in the country. I am not sure who has the contract right now but they might be still in Mississippi, I am not sure. Anyway, maybe we could have done that too. Close down the offices, laid off the workers, gutted the public service, wacked fees on every single citizen that walks in this Province and raise more money. Perhaps we could have done that too, but, no, we did not do that, Mr. Speaker. We tried to strike a balance. We tried to strike a balance with the revenues that we had. At the time, although it was a Liberal government that did the White Rose deal, did the Hibernia deal, did the Terra Nova deal, did the Voisey's Bay deal - four projects, Mr. Speaker, brought a billion dollars in revenue into this Province this year under the Tory government. But, who did the deals? It was the Liberal Administration that did those deals.

This year in the Budget the minister stands so proud to bring down his Budget, to announce the $1 billion in taxes and revenues that are coming in from those particular developments, but it was not a deal cut by the Tory government, I suggest. In fact, I have not seen a deal outside of the Atlantic Accord which was granted by a federal Liberal Administration in Ottawa. I have not seen a deal by the government opposite -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: - and I have not seen a deal, a new deal that is going to bring more revenue into this Province. I have not seen it, Mr. Speaker, have not seen it at all. I have not seen one negotiation that the government participated in that ended up being successful. Maybe with the exception - I think they settled with the teachers this year without any backlash or strikes or protests, but it was probably the only large public sector negotiation that they walked into and walked out of, so far, since they have been in government.

I have never seen a deal that they negotiated, certainly not with FPI, certainly not with ExxonMobile when they told them to pack their bags and leave, Mr. Speaker. There was no negotiation there. There was no negotiation in Stephenville when Abitibi-Price packed her in and left the Stephenville area and put hundreds of people out of work. So, don't stand up and talk about the wonderful, great things that are happening. Do you want to be factual? Do you want the facts? I will give you the facts. Let me give you the facts on what happened up in St. Anthony. The minister stood up and said we would not put dialysis equipment in St. Anthony. Well, Mr. Speaker, the money was budgeted for the dialysis equipment up there -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I am asking members on both sides for their co-operation. We have to operate the House in a very civil manner, with respect for each other and respect for the institution. I am asking all members for their co-operation and ask members not to shout back and forth across the House.

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have had to be yelling over all the noise in the House of Assembly and some people have been heckling me since I have been on my feet this evening, but I just want to make my points, just like everyone else here.

Mr. Speaker, I want to lay out what is factual because I am going to tell you, there has been some misleading information in this House of Assembly this evening. I am going to start with this dialysis equipment up in St. Anthony. I heard the member when he stood up this evening and he said: The only reason that the dialysis equipment did not get put in St. Anthony is because of politics and because two by-elections went to the Conservative Party. Well, that is the most untruthful statement that I have heard, Mr. Speaker, and that minister knows it. Whether he intended to say it or not, I have no idea. The newspapers of the day will tell you the full story. The letters in the Minister of Health's own office will tell you the story and I am going to tell it to you now.

The money was approved for dialysis equipment in St. Anthony. It was put in the budget for the Grenfell health board before they even amalgamated with the Labrador board. The money was there and the decision was made by the CEO of the day, and from what I understand, with very little consultation from the board at the time, that there were other priorities that had to be met. There were other priorities, other things that took precedent and they preferred to invest the money in another area, into another initiative. The letters should be over in the Minister of Health's office today, if he wants to go and look for them. The minister can also, himself - the member for St. Anthony - go back and look through the newspapers at the time and he will read the comments of the CEO, Mr. John Budgell, who was defending the decision that he made, defending the fact that he wanted to take this money and invest it into another aspect of the health care system. It had absolutely nothing to do with politics. I think the member knows that. A nice spin, but it had absolutely nothing to do with politics at the time.

Mr. Speaker, he stood up and he talked about how there was no money invested. I already outlined to the people that yes, there could have probably been more money if we were willing to jack up the taxes, jack up the fees, close down highway depots, lay off workers, gut the public service, close social services offices, all decisions we chose not to make.

We also probably could have put more money into roads, but in order to do that, what would we have had to do? Close down hospitals, close down schools. All things we were not prepared to do. We did make good investments in all these communities. Not only did we do four major deals that is putting $1 billion in revenue into the government's coffers today, but we also invested whatever money we had strategically around the Province, including in the member for St. Anthony's own district. The new school in Roddickton, he soon forgot all about that, didn't he? A brand new school - and a redevelopment of a school in his colleague's district, in St. Barbe I believe it was. Piles of money spent in paving roads in that particular area at the time. I remember it very clearly, what was spent there.

I listened to the Member for Labrador up today talking about how that government is the only government for Lake Melville, the only government to ever spend money in Labrador. What a joke!

Mr. Speaker, I can go back through the Budget -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: - over the years and I can tell you now, unequivocally, millions and millions and millions of dollars, year after year, invested into my district; one of the ruralist districts in Labrador, some of the smallest communities in Labrador.

The Member for Lake Melville up on his feet, puffing up his chest saying: No money ever spent in Labrador before. He goes up to his district now and he walks into a brand new hospital, $14 million, $15 million of Liberal government initiative. He goes into the courthouse. He goes into the school. All money invested by a Liberal government. The children in Lake Melville today are sitting in a brand new school that was built under a Liberal administration, Mr. Speaker, because it was a priority and it had to be done.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: So, this is the kind of thing.

He talks about no money being spent. One of the largest road transportation negotiations ever completed in Labrador history was completed under a Liberal administration, I say to the member, where over $300 million was invested. How soon we forget that, Mr. Speaker. How soon we forget all of those things.

Let me tell them about what was invested in my district, Mr. Speaker, millions of dollars. When I got elected in 1996, until today, I have 300 kilometres more road built in my district than I ever did, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: I will tell you something, it was a Liberal government that negotiated the deal. It was a Liberal government that made the decision, Mr. Speaker, to invest that -

MR. HICKEY: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A point of order has been raised.

The hon. the Member for Lake Melville.

MR. HICKEY: I sit here tonight - they said we are going very late. I have been on my feet since 5:00 this morning.

Let me say, Mr. Speaker, the trite that is coming out of the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair about the road that she put in her district. Mr. Speaker, that is inaccurate. That is not true. That money was put there by the late Lawrence O'Brien. I can tell you, I was in his house when he got the message from the then Minister of Finance, Paul Martin, on $346 million for that road. Let her tell the truth if she is going to tell it here in this House of Assembly, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, it is quite obvious that the Member for Lake Melville is having trouble containing himself over there. He soon forgets all the investments that were made. Mr. Speaker, I have no problem giving Mr. Lawrence O'Brien a great deal of credit for the money that was negotiated on the highway, and I have no problem giving Brian Tobin a great deal of credit for the money that was negotiated on the highway.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, I am going to tell you -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Colleagues, the House operates on the basis of respect for each other, respect for the institution. The House can only operate in a civil manner when members co-operate and members take their parliamentary roles in an appropriate manner.

I am asking members for their co-operation. It is getting late in the evening. We have about six minutes left in this debate.

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I was just going to finish my comments by saying there was no doubt, there were a lot of people involved in negotiating the money for highways in Labrador, and all of them were Liberals who had a vision for rural areas of this Province and were prepared to make the investments. I just wanted to remind the members opposite that there was 300 kilometres of road built in that part of Labrador, even though they get up and say there was no money spent there. They soon forget.

Mr. Speaker, it does not end there. I can go on with a long list. There were seven community centres built in my district, I say to the Member for Lake Melville, when you talk about no money spent in Labrador. There were six youth centres built there. There were ten family resource centres, and I can go on all night if you want to hear it all because there was an awful lot of money invested. But I can guarantee you, it is not being invested today in rural communities in this Province. It is not being invested today in rural communities in this Province, I can tell you. I can guarantee you that. The same amounts of money, the same confidence in rural areas of this Province does not exist that existed then. There is no doubt about that, and that is quite obvious. We only have to listen to what is happening with FPI in the Province to know that there no confidence in the rural economy; to know that this government has no confidence in the rural economy. Every time we ask a question about rural Newfoundland and Labrador we get told about a strategy. Well, I can guarantee you, the people in my district are not going to eat strategies, I can say to the members opposite, and come the end of June they are going to know, or the end of July, when they do not have work and this government is not prepared to make the investment.

So, Mr. Speaker, I know it is getting late and my time is pretty well ran out but I thank you for your patience. I certainly have to say, it has been a testy evening here in the House of Assembly and no doubt, testy in debate. I guess, Mr. Speaker, when you get the truth dished out at you, sometimes it is pretty hard to take and it is quite obvious it was hard to take over there tonight.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. Member for Lake Melville.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As you can tell, the hour is late. As I said earlier, Mr. Speaker, I have been on my feet since 5:00 o'clock this morning but let me say this, there is a lot of energy in this member here, I can tell you right now.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: Let me say to my good friend, the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, and my good friend, the Member for Torngat Mountains, I know what was done in Labrador, Mr. Speaker, because I live there. I grew up there. I know what was done on the Coast of Labrador back in 1977. Yes, there have been improvements on the North Coast of Labrador, but I can tell you, there has been a hell of a lot of money spent on the North Coast of Labrador. I can say to you, there was a lot of federal money spent on the North Coast of Labrador. There was a lot of federal money spent in the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair's district.

I will tell you what, as I watch here today, and as we open up this House of Assembly and this Session, I see a bunch across on the other side that are leaderless, absolutely leaderless. There is no rudder on that ship, Mr. Speaker, no sail. I can tell you, when I listen to some of the tripe that I have had to listen to on the radio station over the last number of days from their leader wanting to take students and give them $6 an hour, absolutely, totally, totally insane. This is the type of leadership that this Opposition - that is the reason why they were trying to get rid of them. Let me say, Mr. Speaker, just look at Friday's issue of The Telegram: Grit vice-president calls for a review. Discontent among the Liberals. I quote Mr. Hussey because I think the people of the Province have to know, Mr. Speaker.

When I listen to the tripe across the way, when I listen to the arguments that they put forward, when they know in their own hearts and souls that they are wrong, that they are misleading - absolutely, Mr. Speaker. But, I want to go back to this article because I found this very interesting when I read this on the flight 6:00 o'clock this morning coming out of Labrador. I want to quote here what one of the vice-presidents said: I am hearing from Liberals right across Newfoundland and Labrador, and Liberals are a little bit concerned about the present leadership because of the way our present leader and the party are handling things. No wonder there is discontent over there across the way, Mr. Speaker. Their leader right now cannot even go to Ontario. He will never get through the -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the member to take his seat. The time allocated for this debate has now expired.

MR. HICKEY: By leave, Mr. Speaker?

AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been denied.

Are the members ready for the question?

The motion is that this House concurs in the report of the Social Services Committee on Estimates.

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, ‘nay'.

Motion carried.

On motion, House concurs in the report of the Social Services Committee on Estimates.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: We have Division on this one, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Division?

MR. E. BYRNE: Yes, Sir.

MR. SPEAKER: Division has been called.

MR. SPEAKER: Call in the members.

Are the Whips ready?

The motion is that the House concurs in the report of the Social Services Committee on Estimates.

All those in favour, please stand.

CLERK (Noel): Mr. Edward Byrne, Mr. Rideout, Mr. Taylor, Mr. Sullivan, Mr. Jack Byrne, Mr. Fitzgerald, Mr. Harding, Mr. O'Brien, Ms Burke, Ms Whalen, Mr. Hickey, Mr. French, Mr. Hunter, Mr. Skinner, Ms Johnson, Ms Marshall, Mr. Ridgley, Mr. Oram, Mr. Forsey, Mr. Felix Collins.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against the motion, please rise.

CLERK: Mr. Reid, Mr. Butler, Mr. Barrett, Mr. Langdon, Ms Jones, Ms Thistle, Mr. Andersen, Mr. Randy Collins.

Mr. Speaker, twenty ayes and eight nays.

MR. SPEAKER: I declare the motion carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate the lively debate tonight on the Resource Committee Estimates and the Government Services sector Estimates. I think we have five hours and a little bit left tomorrow. I know that we will provide members again with the opportunity, if they so desire, if we see fit, to sit beyond 5:30 tomorrow to conclude the Budget Debate.

With that, I put the adjournment motion towards the House, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The motion is that this House will now adjourn until tomorrow, May 2, at 1:30 of the clock in the afternoon.

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, ‘nay'.

The motion is carried. This House now stands adjourned until tomorrow, Tuesday, at 1:30 of the clock.

On motion, the House at its rising adjourned until tomorrow, Tuesday, at 1:30 p.m.