The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I understand that we have - in discussions between myself and the Opposition House Leader that the Premier wishes to introduce a resolution, speak to it for two or three minutes and the Leader of the Opposition will speak to it as well.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, first of all I thank the Opposition for the cooperation in this matter.

Mr. Speaker, as I am sure you are aware, Canada is hosting the Heads of State of over 100 countries in Ottawa today, who have gathered to sign the historic global ban on land-mines. This is indeed a time for all of us, including the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, to celebrate a move negotiated internationally to end the horror of land-mines.

Mr. Speaker, land-mines have maimed millions all over the world and continue to maim millions all over the world. Many of those, indeed most of those injured are children, Mr. Speaker, and they are innocent participants to the conflicts that have given rise to the mining of vast tracts of land.

Mr. Speaker, we have seen as well many combatants or non-combatants, in some cases, peacekeepers who have been maimed or injured by these land-mines. Indeed, we can recall in this Province Canadian UN Peacekeepers, including some from Newfoundland and Labrador, who have been grievously injured as a result of land-mines.

So, Mr. Speaker, this week all across Canada, non-governmental organizations, including those like Oxfam and indeed Oxfam here in Newfoundland and Labrador has taken up a petition campaign. I know many members will sign the petition here outside the Legislature - have taken up the cause and have asked Legislatures all across the country to join in reflecting, by way of resolution, our support for the total ban on land-mines.

Mr. Speaker, also our support for joining the call of all of those who say it is imperative and important that the government of the United States and the President of the United States and indeed, the President and Government of Russia join too in this treaty.

So I move, Mr. Speaker, the following resolution, seconded if I may, by the Leader of the Opposition.

WHEREAS the use of anti-personal land-mines have caused untold harm to innocent people and countries that have been torn by war; and

WHEREAS the issue of banning the use of such land-mines has gained worldwide attention; and

WHEREAS Canada is this week hosting an international conference of the Heads of State of over 100 countries; and

WHEREAS more then 100 countries are expected to sign a land mark treaty aimed at implementing a global band on land-mines; and

WHEREAS Canada has been the leading proponent among those countries;

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that this House unanimously endorse Canada's leadership and position in bringing about the convention on the prohibition of the use, stock piling, production and transfer of anti-personal mines and of their destruction. We urge all other nations of the world to follow suit.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We, too, on this side of the House certainly endorse this resolution here to prohibit anti-personal mines. They have caused devastation, they are not just a weapon, basically, of war or to maintain peace, it is also a weapon that has inflicted considerable injury on innocent people; on men, women and children. Children in particular who are innocent victims of this.

It is estimated that one person every twenty minutes is affected by anti-personal mines and I certainly endorse, and on behalf of my colleagues, this resolution to take the strongest possible action to prohibit and prevent this type of destruction and devastation of personal injury from occurring again in the future.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: All those in favour of the resolution, `aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against the resolution, `nay'.

On Motion, resolution carried.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I would to take this opportunity to thank the members of the House of Commons' Fisheries Committee for taking the time to come to Newfoundland and Labrador to hear from the people most profoundly affected by the closure of the ground fishery.

As you know, Mr. Speaker, the committee completed its hearings Monday. The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador appreciates the efforts of George Baker and his colleagues, who travelled to a wide range of communities, listening to the views of a large number of people within a relatively short time-frame. These meetings gave the committee the opportunity to hear, firsthand, the fear and anxiety of a people faced with uncertainly about their future. The livelihoods of many people in Newfoundland and Labrador have been devastated through no fault of their own.

Mr. Speaker, the federal government has a responsibility to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. There must be a meaningful follow-up program.

Provincial officials, Mr. Speaker, followed the progress of the committee around the Province. They, too, heard about the frustration and stress of living in rural Newfoundland and Labrador without the fishery. Through them, we know that the Commons Committee was presented with a clear, accurate picture of the situation.

Mr. Speaker, I might just, if I could, put in some of the comments that I understand were heard at some of those meetings when the Chairman, George Baker, asked the other Committee members if they would give a minute's statement to sum up their position. I don't think it is any surprise that Mr. Baker's statement was he: Hopes and expects - and this is very important - that the Committee will take a unanimous report, and that the report will be public.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TULK: The Reform Party, represented by Gary Lunn from British Columbia, stated - and I think this is important, Mr. Speaker, that we have all of the members of the House of Commons Committee making those kinds of statements: It is clear that nobody wants to be on TAGS. He said to the people gathered: I will fight for you. Government has to honour its commitment to the people.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I think it is important too to remember that Mr. Bernier from the Bloc Québécois, from the Gaspé Peninsula, points out in a true Canadian fashion that his riding includes Gaspé and part of the Magdalen Islands. His constituents are saying the same things he has heard in Newfoundland and Labrador. He will push the Bloc to support what fishermen are saying. I think this is particularly important: If they don't, then I will no longer be a member of the Bloc.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TULK: The NDP, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Stoffer from Nova Scotia, his statement: Must ensure that the feds don't down load the TAGS problem to the provinces. Of course, Bill Matthews, a PC member from this Province: There is great chemistry in the Commons Committee. They are all pulling together to find solutions. The PCs will definitely support a unanimous report to the House of Commons. A lady from the Northwest Territories points out: I empathize with the people who have attended the hearings. I understand the rural way of life and the importance of communities, and I will work to help resolve the problem.

Mr. Speaker, I think what is important there is that we see that we will have, we hope, and I believe that we will have, a unanimous report to the House of Commons on this problem that we have, on this number one public issue in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, judging from recent media reports, as I said before, it appears that all members of the Committee, regardless of their political stripe, have been struck by the seriousness of the problem and the need for an immediate response. Media reports also suggest unanimity in the views and comments of those members who visited the Province. It is my hope that these views will translate into a unanimous report as I believe they will, of the committee, one which sets out the basis for a strong and effective post-TAGS response.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for the statement and I can assure you that our views over here are not a lot different from his personal views as well. I happen to have attended two of those meetings, the first one in Tors Cove which the minister attended and a meeting which I fought very hard for in my own district down in Catalina, which I think was one of the last meetings that took place on Monday. In fact, Mr. Speaker, the federal MP was probably the only MP who did not take part in trying to arrange that particular meeting; I am talking about our federal minister in Ottawa, who played a very little part, took very little interest in it.

Mr. Speaker, the stories that this committee heard - there was not a big difference from one community to another, and I suppose they could have gone back to Ottawa after they had the first meeting in Tors Cove, because the message was the same right across this Province. And I could see that the committee was concerned. I heard them make their personal statements at the meeting in Catalina, similar to what the minister read out.

Those people, Mr. Speaker, at least heard from the common Newfoundlander what this Province is now going through with the moratorium on the fishery. They saw firsthand, they recognized firsthand what the fishery meant to rural Newfoundland and Labrador. The fishermen I heard from, and the fish-plant workers I heard speak at those meetings, Mr. Speaker, were not looking for government hand-outs; they were not looking for a way to go home and sit down and watch the `soaps' on t.v. What they were looking for was somebody to give them a signal of hope where they could get back to work and do what they normally did to support their families.

Mr. Speaker, I can assure you that the fisherpeople of this Province are not living in any lap of luxury today with a program known as TAGS, but I will say, Mr. Speaker, that, the onus is on this government, the responsibility is on our government right here to make sure that the people in Ottawa put back what was taken from those Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, live up to the promise that was made when our now Premier was the federal Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, on that great May day down at the Newfoundland Hotel which I also attended, Mr. Speaker, when that promise was made.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. FITZGERALD: The onus is on this government to make sure that their cousins in Ottawa live up to that promise, live up to that commitment.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: No leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions today are for the Premier.

In a report to the Canadian Human Rights Commission, retired Queen's University Law Professor, Noel Lyon, recommended that the Government of Canada recognize the ten members of the Federation of Newfoundland Indians as legitimate Micmac communities with established membership, and also enter into negotiations with each of them to establish a set of objectives and a timetable for transition to appropriate forms of self-government. I ask the Premier, does he support giving status to those Micmac communities?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, we are doing an assessment of the report to which the hon. member refers. He knows it arises out of a reference made by a lawyer on behalf of the Micmac people to - Mr. Lyon has commented after a reference by the Micmac people themselves. The report has come in. It is something that is being assessed. But on the basic principle of self-government, I think the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador has expressed in the clearest way possible our appreciation of this reality and our commitment to this reality by negotiating an Agreement in Principle which is now being finalized, as the Leader of the Opposition knows, with the Labrador Inuit Association on a land claims settlement. Part of that settlement is an agreement on self-government, which is now being negotiated.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition, a supplementary.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Apparently, the Premier did not fully understand the question. He accused me yesterday of not referring to provincial pensions. It is there in Hansard, I say to the Premier today.

I will just ask him again if he is recognizing that LIA - it is not Agreement in Principle, by the way. The other party, LIA, has not agreed to that, Premier; I correct you on that point. I ask him: Does he support - does this Province support - does the Premier support, giving status to those Micmac communities to have legitimate status as Indians under the Indian Act?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, I said we are negotiating an Agreement in Principle. That is what we are negotiating; and I said negotiations are ongoing even as we speak. I am not quite sure how a tit-for-tat commentary across the floor does anything to give information to anybody with any of the matters that are being raised.

On the question of Micmac communities, I am not ready today to stand in the House and say that the government is prepared to recognize any number of additional communities beyond the Conne River community, which is currently in place and with whom we do have a very good and constructive relationship. If the Leader of the Opposition wants to recommend to the House today and through the House today that there be a variety of additional communities recognized as Micmac communities and that land claims be negotiated with all of the communities and that thousands of miles of land be given as part of the land claims settlement to each of these communities, then I would say to the Leader of the Opposition, who is asking questions, tell us which communities he has in mind, which quantum's of land he has in mind, how much cash settlement he has in mind and then I would be glad to take his advice under deliberation and respond to it. So I know the Leader of the Opposition would not ask the questions without thinking about them in advance and I await now his very clear articulation of which communities he has in mind.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It's the Premier's tactic every single Question Period. They have no answers. They were elected to govern and they cannot govern, Mr. Speaker. They do not have the ability to govern this Province and they are trying to deflect attention here. Resign!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Resign and let somebody else do the job if you can't do it, I say to the Premier!

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) look at Roger over there.

MR. SULLIVAN: Don't worry; he will be doing that one in a couple of years. When the federal leadership comes up he will be doing that I say -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

AN HON. MEMBER: He will be back again though, he will be back again.

MR. SULLIVAN: Their status has been an issue since Newfoundland joined Confederation in 1949 and the Indian act, I say to the Premier, was not applied to this Province. Now the Conne River community was recognized in 1984 and in 1982 the federal government gave a commitment to negotiate the status of other Micmac communities as well.

Now I ask the Premier, does he see any difference in giving status to Conne River and not to the other legitimate communities that would meet the regular registration process?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: Now, Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition is standing in the House and he is asking the government - I want members to think about this seriously because there are serious consequences to this, this is a serious issue, the Leader of the Opposition -

MR. J. BYRNE: Give us a show now.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TOBIN: When the Member for Cape St. Francis is ready, Mr. Speaker, I will attempt to answer the question the Leader of the Opposition has asked.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition cannot stand in the House, I submit, and ask the government to recognize ten communities, to recognize self-government in ten communities, if he understands what self-government means because it means land claim settlements. It means that tens of thousands of square miles of this island, perhaps more than that, will be settled in land claims. He cannot ask me to stand up and agree there are ten different, distinct settlements that ought to be reached without telling us which are the ten communities you are talking about, what populations are involved, and what land is the Leader of the Opposition in what communities is he asking me to give up in a land claims settlement.

Once I know that, Mr. Speaker, I will take it under advisement, but I would say to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, including those who are of MicMac descent, to listen carefully to his answer. I suspect we aren't going to get one.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Apparently the Premier hasn't read the report. I would advise you to read it. The St. Alban's community is a community that consists largely of status Indians who are off-reserve members of Conne River, I say to the Premier. In fairness, these people - and I use the words in the Lyon Report - may be entitled to become a distinct band under the Indian Act. I ask the Premier: Will he pursue this issue? Also, the issue of the status of the Federation of Newfoundland Indians with his federal counterparts to ensure that federal commitments are met?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, let the record show that the Leader of the Opposition when asked twice to give a response, to tell the House what he is saying on behalf of the Conservative Party -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible)!

PREMIER TOBIN: No, Mr. Speaker, that isn't the way life works. When you get up and make a statement asking the government to recognize ten communities, you at least have to tell us which ten communities. When you stand up and ask the government to negotiate away tens of thousands of square miles, you have to say where the land is, and to whom we should give it. When you ask the government to negotiate self-government, that means the ability to run programs oneself, that means money. How much money are you asking the government to give? One hundred million, $200 million, $300 million, $1 billion, $2 billion, $3 billion? How much land? Ten thousand square miles, 100,000 square miles -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TOBIN: - and what communities?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TOBIN: The Leader of the Opposition must stop this irresponsible approach to Question Period!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, it is getting really humorous. The Premier can't answer the question at hand, and he tries to deflect attention away from the real issue here. Anybody who has legitimate status as an aboriginal people should be given particular status who has legitimate status under the registration process. Read the book.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: Read the book, I say to the Premier. It is quite clear, and I will say it again, if the Premier would listen. Those with a legitimate claim to status, while it is a federal issue, it has significant financial repercussions on our Province. It is estimated that $20 million in direct funding to this Province could be achieved through status with the Federation of Newfoundland Indians, which would give this provincial government considerable leeway. I ask the Premier: Has this government completed an analysis of the cost savings in direct payments that this Province would save, and confirm whether that $20 million is an accurate figure?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition clearly either knows how the process works - and I have to believe he does know, because he wouldn't stand and ask questions and not know it; of course, he would never do that - or is he pretending he doesn't know, and that may be possible.

He knows that the way in which aboriginal status is determined is through a process that begins with the federal government through an assessment initially by the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, and finally a reference to the federal Department of Justice, at which point the federal Department of Justice makes a recommendation for a negotiation on a land claim, or not. Finally, once that recommendation is made, the province does its own assessment after the fact and agrees to concur or not to concur in the recommendation.

The Leader of the Opposition knows that. When he just stands on his feet and says: Let us acknowledge unilaterally, with no reference to the federal government, a status for ten communities, I ask the Leader of the Opposition: Is he saying that Corner Brook should be settled in a land claim?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: (Inaudible)!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TOBIN: Is he saying that Gander should be settled in a land claim? Is he saying that Stephenville - Bay St. George should be settled in a land claim? Is he saying that Deer Lake - St. Judes should be settled in a land claim?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TOBIN: Is he saying that Bartletts Harbour should be settled in a land claim? Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition can't have it both ways.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TOBIN: He has to tell us -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the Premier -

PREMIER TOBIN: - what he means when he asks these questions.

MR. SPEAKER: - to conclude his answer.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. SULLIVAN: No, I (inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Environment and Labour.

Mr. Speaker, we have seen again this year that government is powerless to clean up the oil from bilges of ships pumped at sea, which kills thousands of birds off our coastlines. How much less powerful will the government be to stop the damage of a major oil leak or an oil tank disaster?

With the traffic off our coast increasing exponentially because of the Hibernia project, can the minister tell us what contingency plan is in place today to handle a major oil spill or oil disaster of the magnitude of, say, the Exxon Valdez?

AN HON. MEMBER: Good question.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Labour.

AN HON. MEMBER: Same question as last week.

MR LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As far as the offshore oil is concerned and the Hibernia rig and the Amoco drill rig that is out there, there is a plan in place that they had to submit to C-NOPB and with other government agencies, of which our own is a part, which has been approved. As I said, it is a federal jurisdiction and approved by C-NOPB. We have had a part to play in it, but it is not our jurisdiction, it is theirs, and we assist in helping them make sure that the rules and regulations are carried out.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, given the large number of participants in the Atlantic Clean-up Strategy here in Newfoundland, provincial Environment, federal Environment, the City, Coast Guard, other Emergency Measures personnel, and so on, how often are these various participants brought together to plan for a disaster? How quickly can they be brought together, if needed, and what facilities and equipment do we have at our disposal right here in Newfoundland, in the event of such a disaster?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: Well, Mr. Speaker –

MR. J. BYRNE: No confidence in the minister.

PREMIER TOBIN: I have full confidence in this minister. This minister is an extraordinary Minister of Environment and Labour.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TOBIN: This minister has already taken the steps to reduce by 14,000 metric tonnes a year, emissions from Come By Chance by going out and sitting down with the company and firmly telling them to deal with it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, the question that has been raised refers to a matter that is under federal jurisdiction. Indeed, in a former life as the minister responsible for the federal Coast Guard, I helped to put in place, as the minister of that department, the contingency planning under comprehensive agreements between the proponents of the various fields in operation - in the case of shuttle tankers, the operators of the shuttle tankers, in the case of Come By Chance, the operators of the refinery, the Canadian Coast Guard and Emergency Response Program which is there. I would be very happy - because I know the hon. member is serious about these questions and I know he is serious about the environment - I would be very happy to arrange a full briefing for the hon. member on the measures in place now to deal with land-based facilities, to deal with shuttle tankers and to deal with offshore production and exploration platforms. It would be my pleasure.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South, a supplementary.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Newfoundland, which is becoming a major player in the international oil industry, has to rely on generic federal legislation, Mr. Speaker. I have the legislation. Does the minister know the legislation?

British Columbia, which do not even have an oil industry, have their own comprehensive emergency plan and contingency plan in place. They are not even in the oil industry, Mr. Speaker.

Given that our Province is quickly becoming a major player in the international oil industry, do you not think that we need our own legislation, at least as good as what British Columbia has, to ensure that we are ready to handle, and to perhaps even prevent, the kind of oil disaster that has taken place in other parts of the world?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, the member clearly does not understand the fundamental difference between British Columbia and Newfoundland and Labrador.

British Columbia does not have an offshore oil and gas industry, we do.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TOBIN: Industry - you are not listening. We have an industry in place and, as a consequence, we have a C-NOPB board and, as a consequence, we have an Emergency Response program already negotiated with the Federal Government and with the private sector.

Mr. Speaker, if the member would do his homework - and I would be glad to arrange a briefing - he would know that all of the measures he has described are already in place, and know the Province will not take over from the Federal Government and will not take the cost from the Federal Government of taking over federal jurisdiction, it is already there.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for St. John's South, a supplementary.

MR. T. OSBORNE: You are absolutely right. British Columbia does not have an oil industry but they have an emergency plan. We have an oil industry here, Mr. Speaker. When is our Minister of Environment and Labour and our Premier going to get real on this issue and put in place measures to make sure that we are ready to handle a disaster?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, we have now just had a declaration from the Opposition that British Columbia has a plan in case they ever get an industry so that they might, one day, have an emergency. Mr. Speaker, we have an industry, we have an emergency plan, it is already in place, it is administered through the C-NOPB, the Federal-Provincial Government, the private sector, the offshore oil and gas industry, the Come By Chance Oil Refinery, the equipment is here in Newfoundland, the costs are already covered; we should be happy the work is already done.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Kilbride.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to ask some questions related to the oil and gas industry with respect to Occupational Health and Safety Standards.

In the last couple of weeks, a lot of concerns have been raised as a result of an evacuation from the Bill Shoemaker, which is a drilling rig off the coast, by Amoco, and certainly with the evacuation that took place on Sunday past with respect to Terra Nova.

It is my understanding, I say to the minister, that there are only draft regulations in place for Occupational Health and Safety standards with respect to the Province. Can the minister confirm that, and while he is confirming that, can he indicate when those regulations within the department will actually become law?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Labour.

MR LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to tell the hon. member that there are draft regulations in place and we are working with the C-NOPB to make sure - and with the oil rigs I should say - to make sure that this particular plan is carried out. I visited the rig about a month ago, and had Occupational Health and Safety meetings with the personnel on the rig.

They carried out one of their drills while we were there and it worked very, very well; and basically, I think it shows as well that the company is well-prepared to show what happened when there was, what they thought, a pending disaster and were able to operate so quickly. Within twenty minutes they had the personnel and everybody at the site ready to be evacuated to the Amoco rig.

So I think things are well under way; nevertheless, we want to ensure that we are on top of it to provide the best possible Occupational Health and Safety regulations for people who work at the industry.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Kilbride, a supplementary.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I have no doubt, and let it be clear that I have no doubt, this is a serious matter and I have no doubt that the company acted in the best interest of the employees. As a matter of fact, caucus is meeting with the company next week to go over their plan. But what I am concerned about here in the Province is the Province's role and the lack of regulations and what impact that may have.

The question of jurisdiction arises and I would like to ask the minister this: The Amoco rig, the Bill Shoemaker is in the exploration stage, not the production phase as is the Hibernia production platform. Does jurisdiction fall within the Province's Occupational Health and Safety regulations with respect to that rig? It is a question that needs an answer, I say to the minister.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Labour.

MR LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, on the Amoco drill rig, as the hon. member just mentioned, the company has its Occupational Health and Safety programs in place which are very high-standard, but we want to make sure that in the draft regulations that are being prepared by us and the Federal Government, that will be in place within the next couple of weeks, it will cover off to make sure that the highest possible Occupational Health and Safety standards are met in the exploration, as well as in the industry itself.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Kilbride, a supplementary.

MR. E. BYRNE: So what the minister is saying is that we have an industry that is ongoing - I do not doubt the company has standards in place, but that is not our concern, I say to the minister. What we should be concerned about are our own occupational health and safety regulations.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: The standards that we set for the industry are what we should be concerned about, so that any company coming into the Province to operate in this industry must adhere to the standards set by the Provincial Government, and they should be of the highest nature.

I would like to ask the minister this question, or any minister who would like to respond, actually: Could you inform the House of what meetings have taken place since the evacuation of the Hibernia production platform? What have been the, I guess, discussions of those meetings, with one final result: What level of assurance can be provided, not only to the employees but to the people of the Province, that the standards that we have in place for evacuation are the highest they can be so that lives off our coast may not be in jeopardy?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Labour.

MR LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to assure the hon. member that the department and myself have been in contact with the Hibernia Group and Harvey Smith, and the Premier and I have been invited to go to the rig over the next couple of days to make sure that the standards that are there are what we expect. The standards that are there now are already approved by the -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR LANGDON: The standards that are there on the rig right now have been already approved by the C-NOPB. We are confident that the Occupational Health and Safety standards are in place, but we just want to make sure that the pending legislation will enhance what is already there.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Premier.

A couple of days ago in the House, I tabled a document that showed that the Federal Government in Ottawa accepted an extremely large sum of money as a political donation from the IFAW. Mr. Speaker, the Premier at the time seemed to slough it off. He knew very little about it. I understand that the Premier was back here probably at that time; because it was in 1996 that political donation was made.

I ask the Premier today: Is he aware of any other contributions that were accepted by the federal party, the federal Liberal Party of this country, prior to 1996, from this same group of people, the IFAW?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, I am delighted that the member has stood up now and has corrected the statement he made a few days ago when he said that I had accepted a contribution -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

PREMIER TOBIN: Oh, no, but listen. You have to expect that when you ask questions you get answers, even when you do not like the answer.

Mr. Speaker, the member, a few days ago, suggested, and Mr. Jim Morgan suggested on radio, that I had accepted a contribution from the IFAW. That is absolutely false. Mr. Speaker, this leadership campaign is getting just ridiculous - all kinds of crazy allegations.

Mr. Speaker, I have not accepted any contributions from the IFAW. I never will accept any contribution from the IFAW. My only contribution back to the IFAW is to say that they are a bunch of frauds.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South, a supplementary.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I certainly did not say that the Premier himself accepted a sum of money. What I did say was included in the preamble of my question.

Mr. Speaker, today I will table page 274 –

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Again, on tabling documents, I have to bring to the hon. member's attention that it has been ruled in this House on many occasions that private members do not have the right nor the obligation to table documents. That has been ruled on a number of occasions. It is a precedent in this House. I just want to remind the hon. member that he cannot table documents here.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will provide a copy to the House after Question Period which will clearly show another large - extremely large - amount of money donated to the federal Liberal Party in 1994, Premier, when you were the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.

I ask the Premier again: Was he aware that this political donation was made? And if he was, does he accept it as acceptable behaviour from a group of people who are trying to destroy a way of life right here in this Province?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, with all of the issues in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador today, it must be very clear to the people of the Province - he doesn't have a single question on how to provide work opportunities for people who live in rural Newfoundland and Labrador; not a single question on how to add value to our forest sector or create more employment or value added in the forestry sector; not a single question on what we are doing to develop an IT sector, Information and Technology sector for Newfoundland and Labrador; not a single question on bio-technology or what is happening in that regard;

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TOBIN: - not a single question on when we are going to have final approval of Terra Nova; no questions on contributions to the federal Liberal Party four years ago! Ridiculous, Mr. Speaker!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

On a point of order, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. H. HODDER: On a point of order, section 408, the rules clearly state that the answers to questions should be as brief as possible, should deal with the matter raised. In this particular case, the Premier's answer is totally irrelevant to the question asked by my colleague the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

No point of order. The Chair cannot dictate what the answer will be. Hon. members ought to be brief in their questions. They ought to be equally brief in their response. That is why we have these orders in place so that Question Period is not a period for debate but a period for questions and answers and I ask hon. members to keep that in mind.

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, I want to assure the House that my answer was as relevant as the question.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Mr. Speaker, I say to the Premier, Premier you can't have it both ways. You can't sing with the angels and sleep with the devils, I say to the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FITZGERALD: You can't have it both ways Premier. A very serious question, Premier, you are the first minister of this Province. I ask you once again if you have ever personally accepted a political donation from the IFAW or have you ever had a donation made to a bank account that you control in your own political life from this same group of people?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: No, Mr. Speaker, I have never personally accepted a donation from the IFAW and if the member is suggesting that I have taken a donation from the IFAW, I would ask the member to stand now - because this is a serious issue - and to make his charge, Mr. Speaker. If the member is alleging that I have taken a contribution stand now and make the charge. If you are not prepared to stand and make the charge then the people of Newfoundland would be right in assuming that you are engaged in scurrilous rumour mongering and have not the backbone to stand up and repeat that allegation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I see time is running out but I will try to get one question in here today, Mr. Speaker. Just recently of course the North Limited from Australia took over 60 per cent of the IOC development in Labrador City. I would like to ask the minister, as an option of this company, part of this takeover is to reactivate the mothballed pellet plant in Seven Isles, Quebec, to further process the ore reserves in Labrador. I would like to know, what has the minister done to inform this new company that this Province is sick and tired of these resources going out of this Province? Can the minister commit today, that they have told this company in no uncertain terms that if there is any pelletizing of this ore reserve in Labrador that it will be done in Labrador City and not in Seven Isles, Quebec?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.

MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, I am happy to answer that question. The Member for Labrador West and myself met with the President of the Iron Ore Company of Canada, Mr. LeBoutillier and we examined the whole issue of the pelletization plant. There is currently a study underway now, I think being done by Bechtel, who are studying the new pelletization plant, whether the reactivation at Sept Isle which was a plant that was built many years ago, can indeed even be activated.

Secondly, we pointed out to him that it is in the Province's best interest to pelletize any future requirements at Labrador City, in Labrador City. I think we even went a step further, Mr. Speaker, and talked about providing very inexpensive power which would be generated to produce this new pellitization plant. So the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador has told them quite clearly it would be in the best interests of this Province -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. FUREY: - to pellitize in Labrador City.

MR. SPEAKER: Question Period has ended.

MR. FUREY: We want the jobs to stay in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and we have made provisions on the power side to ensure that that happens.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Question Period has ended.

The Chair would like to welcome to the gallery today on behalf of all members Mayor Fred Best and Councillor John Pickett from Clarenville, from the District of Trinity North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Pursuant to the provision of section 273(3) of the Elections Act, 1991, I enclose herewith my report for the election finance period January 1, 1996, to December 31, 1996, for tabling in the House of Assembly. The Chair would like to table this report from the Office of the Chief Electoral Officer today.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Kilbride.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand to read into the House record a petition to the House of Assembly.

To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland in legislative session convened, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and Labrador;

WHEREAS the provincial government has stated it will introduce legislation to tax the sale of used vehicles based upon their book value and not the sale price; and

WHEREAS Newfoundlanders should not pay taxes on an amount they did not pay; and

WHEREAS we believe taxes should be paid only once, when the vehicle is purchased new;

WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador not to proceed with the legislation that would tax the sale of used vehicles based upon their book value.

Mr. Speaker, this is an issue that has arisen with respect to this session. The Minister of Finance tabled yesterday, I believe, some 201 examples of what he talked about in terms of where the Province was losing taxation.

Mr. Speaker, it is pretty clear that what is taking place here, and what government has originally intended, and what they have recommended, needs some modification. It is an indirect form of taxation. There are many questions that need to be answered.

For example, if a car is purchased and the book value is $7,500 or $8,000 but clearly the value of the car, the real value of the car, is far below that because of the necessity of work that could be required on the engine, or could be required on the body, whatever the case may be, clearly the onus should not be on individual taxpayers themselves to pay taxes on something that is really not worth the value that has been assessed to it.

Other questions come to mind. Who determines what the book value will be? Is the book value of cars determined by the companies themselves out of central locations in North America that do not take into consideration variances in terms of weather? It is a well-known fact, for example, that the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs and I could purchase the same car. If he lived in Ontario and I live here, nine chances out of ten the car he would buy would probably get 50,000 to 100,000 kilometres more mileage and more wear out of it because of the difference in climatic conditions. As a result of that, the values are decreased. Certainly, the value of what the car is essentially worth, and should be worth, is decreased, not some predetermined book value by North American companies outside; so it is a legitimate question.

Mr. Speaker, people have continuously called. I know that members opposite are getting calls on this issue. We all are, because it is an important issue, and I think that government should do the honourable thing and remove this regulation because it begs the question: What is next? What is next in terms of the private sale of merchandise? What is coming next? What other form of indirect taxation may be levied on the people of the Province?

Mr. Speaker, the petition is fairly clear. What it requests from government is very clear. I can only say that for the names that are attached here, some thirty-five to forty names, that I, as the Member of the House for Kilbride, certainly endorse the petition and support the request by the residents who have taken the time to sign their name to it.

Thank you very much.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. H. HODDER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise to support the petition put forward by my colleague, the Member for Kilbride. This issue has been in the House of Assembly now for several weeks. We know that the Minister of Finance has been reviewing the situation, and the prayer of the petition is that they pay their taxes on what they pay for the vehicle, and that they should not pay taxes on money that they do not spend.

It is a funny kind of world, an upside-down world, a twisted world, when we ask people to pay taxes on the value of goods that they never spent. Therefore, the prayer of the petition is: Be fair, be reasonable, be honest.

We suggested yesterday in the House, through my colleague, the Member for Cape St. Francis, that we would have an affidavit system put in place. We believe that is very reasonable. We believe that when people sign an affidavit, if they should then perjure themselves, there are recourses through law.

Consequently, we are hoping that the minister, in his review, will try to make sure that the people who pay the taxes, pay the taxes on the value that is reflected in the purchase price, but they should not pay taxes that do not reflect the real value of a vehicle, or take into account, for example, vehicles that have been driven excessively or have had damages or, for some reason, they might even have been defective at some point in the assembly process.

So, we say to the minister, let us do the review; let us be honest with people. Let us not go out and blame everybody. Let us not say, all people are committing fraudulent acts when they buy a vehicle. Let us have it on the basis of an affidavit.

That was a good suggestion, put forward so well by the Member for Cape St. Francis. I am looking forward to the occasion when the Minister of Finance will be able to inform the House and inform the citizens of this Province that indeed he has listened to that, and treated people honestly and fairly and reasonably, and that he has adopted a system that will assure that the value paid is the value reflected in the amount of taxes that are due to the provincial Treasury.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation, in response to the petition.

MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, I think we should just take a minute from this side of the House to acknowledge the hearing of the petition that was presented by the hon. member in connection with this issue. It is an issue that has risen of late, or at least it has gained some public attention, and the Minister of Finance has spoken quite clearly about why the proposition of regulations to give effect to book value taxation policy being brought in - what the reasons are for that.

I think the hon. members on the other side of the House would acknowledge that any time, as an example, I believe, if they were to look at even what was in The Evening Telegram today and see some of the comments that are directly attributed to the Minister of Finance, they would understand, and I am sure they would appreciate, that a vehicle worth $10,000 that has been sold for $100 and is in reasonably good shape, is a situation that is not acceptable. It is not acceptable on principle and it is not acceptable on behalf of the people of the Province.

The issue has been brought forward for our attention by the hon. member who presented the petition and we, on this side of the House, on behalf of the minister, who is absent today, want to acknowledge that we have heard that petition. We are also hearing the other representations that are being put forward by members on the other side of the House.

As the hon. member said correctly, we on this side of the House represent constituents as well, and we hear from our constituents expressing their concerns about matters of taxation policy that they may feel is not entirely the appropriate way to address a given situation.

The Minister of Finance, I am sure, will take under advisement and under consideration all of the representation that he had heard, particularly during this sitting of the House with respect to the issue, and he will factor that into what I am sure will be, on behalf of government and on behalf of the people of the Province, by him, a fair and equitable resolution to this issue.

If there are changes to be brought about then, of course, the Minister of Finance will be the first one to advise the House and the Province. I am not suggesting that there will or that there will not, I am just saying, the minister has already said that he has heard expressions of concern. We acknowledge those expressions of concern, and I can tell you, on behalf of the government and the minister, that we are undertaking to do diligence to the concerns that have been raised and the basis on which they are being raised.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I present yet another petition on behalf of Voices for Justice on Housing:

We, the residents of Newfoundland and Labrador, wish to petition the House of Assembly regarding the rate increase at Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation on a sliding scale from 25 per cent to 30 per cent. We are apposed to this increase because of the hardships that may be endured by tenants and therefore ask that this decision be reconsidered.

Mr. Speaker, over the past week or so, I have been presenting petitions almost on a daily basis on this housing issue, as they are available. Quite simply, it is evident to me and evident to most of the people on this side of the House, anyhow, hopefully evident to the minister - the minister has indeed asked to have the decision put on hold so that they can reconsider - that it is affecting seniors, it is affecting the working poor, it is affecting single parents. Some of these tenants are having their rent increased to the point that they have to compromise on their food budget. They have to compromise the care and the activities in which their children partake.

Mr. Speaker, what kind of society are we promoting here in this Province by making people's rent and social housing such that they would perhaps even be better off if they were living on full government subsidies?

We, on this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, wish to represent the people of this Province in every class, in every walk of life and, in this particular instance, undoubtedly, the working poor and single parents are the hardest hit.

Mr. Speaker, we, on this side of the House, ask that the minister very seriously look at and very seriously reconsider this decision and ensure that the working poor, ensure that the single parents and ensure that seniors are not put out of place, are not put through unnecessary hardship as a result of this rental rate increase, to ensure that they are indeed comfortable living in government-subsidized housing.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's West.

MS S. OSBORNE: I would like to add to that petition, Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the many working poor who are in Newfoundland and Labrador Housing and who are suffering hardship as a result of the rent increase.

Yesterday, the minister asked the Member for St. John's South, if he knew how many people on social assistance are living in rental units. Now, there is no denying our concern is for the people on social assistance as well as for the working poor who are represented in the prayer of this petition.

The minister stated that there is a husband and wife team living in one of the units, making $36,000 a year. I would like to say to the minister that if they are in that income category, they are paying almost $900 a month for rent and that is fair market value. And that is actually good, that is making a good contribution towards Newfoundland and Labrador Housing if they are paying $900 a month for a unit.

Incidentally, to dispel any myth that higher-income tenants are taking up units that could and should be used by - the words of the minister - the mother who is living downtown in squalor, to be eligible to apply for a unit with Newfoundland and Labrador Housing, the maximum that Newfoundland and Labrador Housing will look at, is $21,500 for two adults; $25,500 for two adults with one child; the very, very maximum is $29,000 and that is for two adults with at least five children. So I would say that the people who are living in Newfoundland and Labrador Housing and earning $36,000 a year, their income was probably increased after they moved into Newfoundland and Labrador Housing and, as I said, they are making a significant contribution by paying about $900 a month for rent.

I would like for the minister to reconsider the rise in the rent to 30 per cent and have consideration for the working poor who, I would say, are probably the majority of those living in Newfoundland and Labrador Housing.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: It being Wednesday, it is Private Members' Day and I believe, today, it is the hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased today to rise and put forward this private member's motion. I will read the motion in its entirety:

WHEREAS the sealing industry in Newfoundland and Labrador is an important and integral part of the economy of rural Newfoundland and Labrador; and

WHEREAS seals are consuming an estimated 800,000 tonnes of caplin and over 100,000 tonnes of small cod and countless other quantities of fish per year; and

WHEREAS coastal and native people have an historical attachment to the seal resource that has become part of their culture; and

WHEREAS the sealing industry has the potential to grow in importance as new markets for seal products are identified; and

WHEREAS the people who are involved in the seal hunt utilize humane harvesting methods and the seal carcass to the fullest extent; and

WHEREAS the people of this Province have been inaccurately portrayed as barbaric in recent anti-sealing propaganda prepared by the International Fund for Animal Welfare;

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the House of Assembly condemn the actions of the IFAW and those who would support their misrepresentation of the nature of the seal industry; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the House of Assembly reject these misrepresentations and act collectively to dispel the notion that the seal hunt is a cruel and unnecessary part of our rural economy; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Provincial and Federal Governments act together in a joint effort to repudiate these misrepresentations of the seal industry by developing a promotional campaign directed towards the general public that explains the true nature of the Province's sealing industry.

Mr. Speaker, I am glad today to stand and put forward that motion, for a very simple reason. It is all related to discussions I have had in this House over the last several days. I am a firm believer and have always said that in order for Newfoundland to recover, rural Newfoundland has to recover. In other words, as goes rural Newfoundland and Labrador, so goes Newfoundland. I will say that 1,000 times, I say to the minister.

With that in mind - that is nothing new that I have said in this House - I really believe that the sealing industry and the potential for it, especially in the last twelve to eighteen months, has really come to light in this Province. Personally, I have read and got information, as much as I could, about the sealing industry, not just around our Province, not just in our country, but around the world. I have seen correspondence, I have seen news from China, Taiwan, Korea, and all over the world, talking about the potential for the seal industry.

Right here at home - and I commend the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture for this; I wish he was here today - commend him when we start to talk right here in our own Province about the potential for seal oil development. Besides the utilization of the entire seal, which I have always thought - and this would, of course, take away from the IFAW's threats and so on, their accusations over the years - the right way is to take this mammal, kill it humanely, bring the entire carcass to a processing plant in this Province, and utilize the entire carcass.

That is the answer to the sealing industry in this Province, to utilize the entire carcass. We are talking about the oil, which has fantastic potential, the hides - we have seen the beautiful leather that that can make - of course, the meat, and anything else on the seal that has any value at all. In other words, we take the entire body of the seal, bring it to a processing plant - and here is the key. I am sure the members from Labrador, when we talk about the culture of Labrador and what has gone on for years - we take that seal and we utilize it to its fullest.

I saw a picture that was portrayed at the conference here in St. John's just a little while ago, of an Inuit home, of the man and woman in their living room with three seal carcasses, starting to skin the animal. They take the skins and they use it, they take the blubber and they use it, and they take the meat and they use it. In the home of this Inuit, the picture that is portrayed, there is a man and woman there and they are doing what their fathers and grandfathers have done right through the years. It is normal for them. That is how they have grown up and that is how they have lived for years. That is why there was something in the news a little while ago about the young fellow who was hunting with his father. His father was teaching him how to hunt. That is something these people have done for years. That is why they had sustainable living. They looked around, they used the forest, they used the animals around them, and so on.

That is why this is such a deep-rooted ancestral history of Newfoundland that goes back for hundreds and hundreds of years. It is how we survived. That is why the answer to the seal hunt is to get it back on track, is to take this industry - and it makes so much sense. It is incredible the timing and how much sense this makes. Here we have a mammal that is eating tons of fish, and, at the same time, we are in crisis because the fish is disappearing.

Mr. Speaker, nobody in their right mind believes that the seals are the only problem to the fishing crisis. At the same time, we do not need scientists from DFO or Ottawa, or anywhere else, to tell us that the seals are eating fish. Like one member said here in the House not long ago - I think it was the hon. Bill Matthews - they are certainly not eating turnips.

Seals are eating fish in the water, and it makes all the sense in the world... Here we are, with no jobs in the Province. We have a mammal that is eating the fish, so we lost jobs in that end. We are losing on both ends. That is what is happening to us. That is why if there was ever a loud voice to be made in this Province on any issue by every single member here, every single organization in this Province, every man, woman and child from the tip of Labrador to the tip of the Avalon Peninsula, is for everybody to get together, and not by us just standing in this House today. Because the truth is that what we do here as a Private Member's Motion today, or if the minister goes up and speaks to a small group in New Brunswick, that is all good, that is all wonderful, but the reality of the media, of the technology of the day, is that you have to fight fire with fire.

The IFAW has been called many things, and I could go on with a long list today, but I don't need to mention any of it because the people of Newfoundland and Labrador know what the IFAW is all about. The IFAW is all about money. It is as simple as that. They have no regard for the seals that circle this Province. They have no regard for that. They have no regard for the human effect this puts on people.

If they are really concerned about humane dignity, what they would be doing is trying to protect the native people of Labrador who have done this for years. They would be trying to protect the fisherpeople all over the Coast of Newfoundland and Labrador who have no way of living now because of the devastation of the fishing crisis. That is what they would be fighting, not bloody commercials on TV to get more Brigitte Bardot's and people to send them money so they can go out and make money. That is all they are about, making money and telling lies, as everybody said here before. That is what the IFAW is all about.

Mr. Speaker, this whole motion today is all about us, as a Province, being on the verge of a great potential in the sealing industry. At the same time the timing is so important, because here we are, on one hand, on the verge of potential in the sealing industry, and at the same time in a crisis in our fishing industry, and it is the perfect complement. It is the perfect complement for us as Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, and if there was ever a war for us to fight, it is right now. It is not next week or next month. It is right now, and the war has to start in our own Province by sending a direct message to the people who started the mess with the fishing crisis, which is to our federal counterparts in Ottawa, be it whatever stripe and whatever time. Right now it happens to be the Liberal Government of Canada; but whoever is there, the timing has never been better for us to speak up fully - with our Premier hitting a new charge - I would hit it with him - to go to Ottawa and say: Let's take on the IFAW. Let's take them on and show them what we are really all about. Let them know that we have an industry here ready to explode, that makes all the sense in the world. Let's protect what this Province is all about, our culture; and what a complement to at the same time give us jobs in the sealing industry and at the same time help our ailing fishing stocks recover. It makes all the sense in the world.

Mr. Speaker, what this motion really leads to, and the most significant, I think, of the `BE IT RESOLVED', is the last one. They are all important, and we have done the first two to a certain extent. I will read them again: "THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the House of Assembly condemn the actions of the IFAW and those who would support their misrepresentation of the nature of the seal industry;...".

We have done that. I bet we can take turns here getting up today and we would all make sure, in the House of Assembly, we do this, so number one is taken care of, Mr. Speaker.

Number two, "BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the House of Assembly reject these..." - and we have done that. "...and act collectively to dispel the notion that the seal hunt is a cruel and unnecessary part of our rural economy;" - and we have done that. We have done that from our chairs and standing here in the House of Assembly, and at different functions around the Province.

The last one is the one I drive home today to the Members of this House of Assembly, and I would like for everybody to support it. It is the last one that is the most important for this time, and that is, "...that the Provincial and Federal Governments, in a joint effort to repudiate these misrepresentations of the seal industry by developing a promotional campaign..." - for two reasons. In other words, put your money where your mouth is. I did not say full scale around the world. We are not talking about billions of dollars. We are saying, let's sit down and see what we can work out. I don't know how much, but what we can do - the Premier of this Province should be in Ottawa with his colleague, the Minister of Fisheries, sitting down with the Minister of Fisheries in Ottawa, and the Prime Minister. That's who should be there. The four of them, sitting in one room saying, yes, we are going to, for two reasons, Mr. Speaker, take on the IFAW.

Number one, Mr. Speaker, there are two reasons for it and number one is a very moral reason, that is to show Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, the sealing industry and the people committed to the sealing industry, that we support them, not speaking at a dinner down at the Hotel Newfoundland. That was nice of the Premier and I commend him for his speech, apparently it was a great speech. I commend him for that. As a matter of fact, I have been told by many people that were there that he gave a great speech. That is fine for the people in the hall but, Mr. Speaker, he was talking to the converted. What he has to do is leave that hotel room, leave this House of Assembly and get the message across this country and have Canadians back Newfoundlanders and Labradorians on this very important issue. So that was one reason, Mr. Speaker, to let the people in the sealing industry and our own Newfoundlanders and Labradorians know that we support them.

The second reason why they should put the campaign out there is to show people across this country because, Mr. Speaker, there are still people across this country, through no fault of their own and there is a reason for this campaign, the ignorance to the sealing industry. The ignorance of the sealing industry, Mr. Speaker, and I am going to use an example here in the House today. I have heard it said before, Bill Rowe, host of the Open Line show, was in Montreal or Toronto - I can't remember the name of the city - a few years back, walked in with a seal skin coat on and the lady behind the desk started to ridicule and call him down because he was wearing a seal skin vest. Mr. Rowe has told the story a few times now. He looked at the lady and noticed something, first of all she had a suede skirt on, she had leather shoes and he named some other things that she was wearing but he looked her up and down and said, `And where did you get your skirt? Where did you get your shoes?' Mr. Speaker, very simply put, it is the most hypocritical argument that a person could put forward. It is incredible that people do this - even in our own country. Now, Mr. Speaker, I have - like many members here - members of my family from British Columbia, all the way across Canada and they are still - even though they are Newfoundlanders - hearing different things as they live in other parts of the country.

So the reason why I am asking the Premier of this Province and the Prime Minister of Canada to come together and at least, Mr. Speaker, show some - to what extent I am not sure that can be discussed - but to put out a campaign to show Newfoundlanders and Labradorians across this country that we support the sealing industry and of course, the most important thing, show a true picture. I could even help make up the advertisement, Mr. Speaker, if the Premier wants that. We could take a chopper and the first thing I would see is a camera peering down on 8 million seals off our coasts. One picture. I am not a person who makes up advertisements but I can picture this one, 8 million seals, Mr. Speaker, the camera flying over for one minute. We are going to do a one minute commercial. A chopper flying over the ice floes and for miles just watching seals, millions of them. Mr. Speaker, then you look on the ice pans and you see nothing on the ice pans so of course at the end of the one minute the commercial would say, `Now what do you think they are eating?' They are not eating the ice. They are not just drinking the water. They go in the water and they are eating the fish. It is as simple as that.

Now, Mr. Speaker, that is just one example but the whole point of this is that the provincial and federal governments should come together now and put their money where their mouths are. To what extent and to how much I don't know. As much as we can afford I guess is the logical thing to say. What I am asking, Mr. Speaker, in this resolution today, I will read the last part again;

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the provincial and federal governments act together in a joint effort to repudiate these misrepresentations of the sealing industry by developing a promotional campaign directed toward the general public that explains the true nature of the problems in the sealing industry.

Because, Mr. Speaker, we have to take this beyond and it is not going to wait for us for too long. This is something that has to be acted upon today because I believe, even in my own district as I speak, they are preparing for the sealing industry. As a matter of fact I have a lot of sealers in my area of the Northeast Coast, as most members know here, and people are preparing today to have seals in, Mr. Speaker, in February. That is what they are excited about and what a time for a morale boost in this Province. If we can send out all our sealers and do a maximum quota and bring them in, imagine what a boost it will be for this Province that this spring –

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. SHELLEY: Okay, Mr. Speaker, just to conclude if -

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. SHELLEY: The whole heart and soul of this motion today, Mr. Speaker, and I just want to finish off by saying that the timing is perfect for us as Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to raise the flag, raise the Newfoundland and Labrador Flag to say that we want help, we want to show support for the federal and provincial governments together and, Mr. Speaker, I can guarantee you this, that this side of the House will be there with them to support and show Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and Canadians and the rest of the world, that we do have an industry here that is viable and has potential and we should support them and put our money where our mouth is and show these people that we believe in what they are doing.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to speak on the motion put forward by the Member for Baie Verte.

Mr. Speaker, the seal fishery played a very important part in the lives of the people who live in my district. The Aboriginal people, prior to being resettled by government in their communities of Okak and Hebron, depended solely upon the seal for clothing, for shelter and for food. Mr. Speaker, since the IFAW has done so much damage to the seal fishery, the Aboriginal people are some of the people who have been hurt the most.

Mr. Speaker, in my riding we have a limited fishery where some people have only one specie of fish to fish, that being, for example, the salmon fishery and, Mr. Speaker, if the market were there for the seal products, then these people would certainly have a fishery where they would certainly qualify for the EI benefits. The Aboriginal people usually had a harvest of seals in the spring and a harvest of seals in the fall of the year, and certainly, as the market shows - some people call it `blubber' but I call it `the fat', that the seals in Labrador have the highest grade of seal oil that comes from any seal which is caught anywhere.

Mr. Speaker, I believe it is time for the provincial and federal governments to take a serious look as to what the IFAW has done to damage our livelihood and our culture. Certainly, today with the failure of the cod fishery and people on TAGS, Mr. Speaker, I find it difficult to understand that we have such a big resource that can employ so many people and where we could export so many of our products that today the seal fishery is very limited.

I also find it hard to understand that, white people, such as the IFAW and from foreign countries can come here and take away our livelihood. They can take away from our families the money that we need to buy stuff for our children, and in many cases for people around rural Newfoundland and Labrador, to try and put their children through university.

Mr. Speaker, I think it is time that both levels of government took a very strong and a very serious look as to how we can, not only better fight the IFAW, but to put on a campaign where we can promote the seal fishery throughout the foreign countries and most of all, Mr. Speaker, to find ways and means to help the people in rural Newfoundland and Labrador to develop that fishery. Perhaps a suggestion to the federal government might be that a very serious topic today is the extension of TAGS and, Mr. Speaker, I believe if the people in the provincial government got together with the officials from the federal government and, through using good common sense, that if we found ways and means to employ our people within the seal fishery, then we would have a fishery that would last us for a long time to come.

I've talked of the Aboriginal people. I guess after the government moved them in their resettlement in late 1959 they found it very difficult to try and adapt to a different way of life and a different lifestyle and different food. These people were able to hunt and harvest the seals, but after the damage that was done by the IFAW they couldn't afford five gallons of gas to go out and kill seals so the women could make sealskin boots, and most important of all, meat for their table. Rather, they had to try and rely on social services which to them was, I guess, a slap in the face when someone could take away their livelihood.

I certainly agree with the resolution put forward. Certainly I think the time has come for all of us to work very closely with Ottawa, that this side of the House will work with the hon. members across the way, to find solutions to make the seal fishery what it is supposed to be. Most important of all, Mr. Speaker, it is a resource that will benefit the people in rural Newfoundland and Labrador for years to come. I certainly look forward to playing my part on behalf of this government to make the seal fishery become a reality, and make sure that we take the right steps to make sure it will last us for years to come.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER (Penney): Before recognizing the hon. member, on behalf of all hon. members I would like to welcome to the public galleries, from the town of St. Lawrence, Mayor Wade Rowsell, Deputy Mayor Paul Pike, and Councillors Bob Giovaninni and Pad Brake.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to add a few comments to a resolution brought forward by my colleague the Member for Baie Verte that is certainly in tune -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FITZGERALD: I say to the Government House Leader that it doesn't matter who introduced it. It is a very important private member's resolution. As long as it is spoken to by people from rural Newfoundland, because I think those are the people who have a real feeling for this particular issue, then it doesn't matter who introduces it. The main thing is who is on side with it, I guess. That is what is happening here.

Back a few years ago, and most of us I think can remember, we aren't talking about any great length of time, I think it happened in March, that we would see people gather together and come to St. John's or go to Halifax and join the sealing vessels to go out to the ice, we used to refer to it as. It was an opportunity for many Newfoundland families at that particular time of the year before the fishing season started to make some extra dollars, to either clothe their children or to buy gear to go fishing with when the fishing season started. Many of our ancestors, many of our fathers, I know many of my relatives, took part in this particular hunt.

Then all of a sudden we saw this animal activist group known as the International - well, I think there is a fund in it now. The International Fund for Animal Welfare. That is what it is all about, I guess. The word "fund" certainly describes what they are all about. Because that is what they are all about. They are about raising money. They are playing on people's emotions. They go out and they take graphic pictures that show that things are happening which are, I suppose, not pleasant. No killing is pleasant. They take that and they play it up and they splash it across the media, both the print media and the television channels right across the world.

As a result, they have created a lot of public sympathy. They are preying on people with the big bucks, as the Member for Cape St. Francis would say. They are preying on the people with the dollars, the movie stars, the artists of the world, the people who have money. Those people are contributing vast dollars to this particular group of people and what they are doing is trying to destroy a way of life right here in this Province.

First when they started out, they talked about the animal not being fully utilized, that the animals were being killed because there was a sale for certain parts of the anatomy of the seal. Then, Mr. Speaker, when Newfoundlanders reacted to that and built up markets they talked about the inhumane ways that the animals were being killed. Newfoundlanders reacted to that and changed their way of killing seals. Now, Mr. Speaker, they have gone the extra step and I think they have created a lot of fiction in this particular hunt themselves and are out there today portraying it as an actual happening in the seal hunt and the way that it is carried out right here in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, the sealing industry in my particular district is about to provide the survival of a community. The seal industry in my particular district is presently about to hire well in excess of 100 people. A reputable company, Seafreez, has moved down to Catalina, purchased a fish plant that was closed down since the moratorium and even prior to that, in the year or two before that, only employed a small number of people. They are down there today putting in a new wharf, completely renovating the building, spending their own money and they are going to employ in excess of 120 people.

We as representatives of the people and I am not going to say, we as a government or we as an opposition or we as anything other then representatives of the people because this includes us all, have to make sure that those people that are carrying out those innuendoes, telling blatant lies about this particular hunt, have to be taken to task. They have to be dealt with.

We hear the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture and we hear the Premier stand here in the House and they say, maybe the right way to handle them is to leave them alone, do not pay any attention to them. That might be true, but up until now that has not worked. I am not convinced that we can sit back and be complacent and expect this to go away because, Mr. Speaker, when somebody finds a niche they can get into and fill the back pocket, it is going to be kind of hard to have them walk away from that.

So, I am not convinced by being quiet and being complacent is going to work. Although, sometimes when I hear people talking about expanding the hunt and I hear people talking about giving extra quota, I sometimes wonder if that kind of thing should be put out in public.

AN HON. MEMBER: Extra quotas for what?

MR. FITZGERALD: Extra quotas for the killing of seals, for the TAC, for the hunt - the total allowable catch. Last year it was something like - I think it started off with 265,000 and then we increased it to about 280,000 or 285,000 was the final count.

I am not so sure that we should get on and say, okay put it right across the airwaves that we are going to now announce another 15,000 seals can be taken. I do not know if we have to do that because –

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FITZGERALD: What he is trying to get on the go - yes, yes, let the markets dictate on what the hunt is going to be and I fully concur with that and that is the way that it should be. This hunt is controlled - the fishery officers are out there today, they are on the wharves, they are dealing with the sealers, they are dealing with the production plants and there is no reason why we cannot go and have a hunt today that can fully fill what the market demands. There is no reason whatsoever - there is between six million, seven million, I have heard as high as eight million seals out there today off our coast and here we are sitting at home waiting for the fishery to return and having this group of people out there trying to destroy not only the seal hunt, Mr. Speaker, but destroy any hope and dash any optimism that we ever might have in our fishery returning.

When you see what those animals eat, Mr. Speaker, there has been talk about 80,000 tonnes of caplin, 110,000 tonnes of juvenile fish. Mr. Speaker, you are talking about big numbers. Especially when you consider that this past year we weren't allowed to have a food fishery on the northeast coast. The whole take of the food fishery in 1996 in codfish was less than 900 tonnes, and here we are accepting the fact that the seal population, in excess of 7 million, is eating over 110,000 tonnes, and not doing a heck of a lot about it.

I read in The Evening Telegram a few days ago where a commercial salmon fisherman on the Labrador Coast talked about the salmon catch for the year. I'm not so sure, the Member for Cartwright - L'Anse au Clair, which particular community he was from, but he did say that four out of every five salmon that he caught were damaged by seals. Four out of every five salmon that that fisherman caught were damaged by seals. They are playing a major part in a return of the fishery in this particular Province today.

I fear this government in its wisdom, in its approach to trying to combat the IFAW, that it is talking to the converted. It is talking to Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. Except for a few traitors in this Province who have come on side with the IFAW, most of us I think will agree that we should have a hunt. This particular industry can return economic prosperity to many of our communities today.

I commend the Member for Baie Verte for bringing in the private member's resolution. It is certainly a fitting one, in that you will soon see this particular hunt take place. I understand there is a great rush on the purchase of seal oil capsules now. The Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, a great salesman, got on television one night -

AN HON. MEMBER: Roger, they are getting calls now from stores in Alberta.

MR. FITZGERALD: I believe that.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FITZGERALD: I believe that. I take them myself.

AN HON. MEMBER: I do too.

MR. FITZGERALD: The Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture got on television one night and showed his true skills in being a salesman. Picked up a bottle and dumped a couple of capsules in his hands and took them, and it was almost like somebody being born again! He walked out with no limps. I think his diabetes was cured right there and then, instant!

Mr. Speaker, it is a good product. We are putting up a product we are proud of. They can't keep it on the supermarket shelves. This is an industry that certainly has great potential. I talked with one of the business owners the other day and I talked about the seal oil capsules. I was a bit concerned that the seal oil was being capsulized out in British Columbia. One company is getting the capsules manufactured in British Columbia, and the other company is in Montreal, in Quebec. I'm not so sure if it is Montreal, but it is in Quebec. I was informed that the amount of consumption for this particular product alone doesn't warrant having a seal oil capsulizing plant right here in the Province, because they do millions in a couple of minutes. Those are the only two plants I believe in Canada. I don't have any great problem with that. If we are going to survive and if we are going to make this into a new business, then we have to make it viable.

We have to get the government out of the business as well, I say to the Government House Leader. We have to get government out of the business once this industry is allowed to function and get on an even keel. It shouldn't need government subsidization, and we won't, once we get our products marketed and once we get this hunt capable of looking after the needs of the sealers.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FITZGERALD: Sure they do, and we should. There is no place for government out subsidizing any industry, any business, I say to the minister. Government subsidization is shrinking greatly. This is not a one-company affair. There is not one company out pushing the cause of the seal hunt, and everybody else is saying, `Yes, we should do it', or `No, we should not'. I would suggest there are probably in excess of six companies right now here in this Province who are either in the process of doing seal oil and seal meat already, or else are in the process of building a facility in order to take part in it.

I believe that we can make it into a very, very viable operation. It could be not only a seasonal operation. Some people are saying, `Well, what is the point? The seal hunt only lasts six weeks of the year.' When we are looking at some of the things and some of the products being done now by the people in seal manufacturing, we find that this work is spread over a number of months. Now we have companies who are looking at having their own tannery here. Only a few days ago there was a group of people who came here from another country who not only would tan - I am not going to say too much about that - seal hides, but would build it into a tannery whereby they would import skins to have a viable leather operation, and I sincerely hope that gets off the ground.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FITZGERALD: I don't know how many of us here eat seal meat. I say to the Minister of Industry, Trade and Technology, the Member for Humber East eats seal meat. I don't know about the Government House Leader. I would imagine he did, because he did not grow up much different than I did, and he did not get that -

MR. TULK: There is a full carcass in my deep-freeze.

MR. FITZGERALD: Yes, he said he had a full carcass in his deep-freeze, and I can guarantee you that the Government House Leader never got that pelt on him by eating carrots and chicken.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FITZGERALD: There is a great lot of oil waiting to be tapped there.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. FITZGERALD: The fat cat of the Liberal Party.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

As enjoyable as the debate is, I must inform the hon. member that his time is up.

MR. FITZGERALD: The fat cat of the Liberal Party would certainly be able to supply a lot of oil.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Does the hon. member have leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Yes.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. FITZGERALD: I would suggest that when his life in politics is over, he might want to donate his body to the industry instead of to science, because I am sure Seafreez and Quinlan Brothers and everybody else may want to put in a price on that.

Mr. Speaker, I am not going to take up the time of other members, because I am sure there are other members here who want to speak.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) Labrador.

MR. FITZGERALD: The member from Labrador has already spoken, the Member for Torngat Mountains. The Member for Cartwright - L'Anse au Clair will certainly want to speak.

I remember being down in the member's district many, many times when the salmon season was on the go, and the trap season was on the go, and floating all around the wharves, all around the beaches, were these seals, because there would be no market for them. They would go down, I say to the member, and they would dive to get at the salmon in the nets, and the fish in the traps, and they would get entangled in the web, and the fishermen would just - it was a nuisance. Bring them ashore and they would be left on the beach or they would be left somewhere else floating around for months at a time because there was no market. Now, all of a sudden, we do have a market, and we can turn it into a very viable industry and give some of our people a great opportunity to live in the communities they want, and to be able to survive and experience a way of life where they can support their families in dignity.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate and Fogo.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. G. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure for me today to rise to speak a few words on the resolution put forward by the Member for Baie Verte. This is my fourth maiden speech now, for hon. members, for those who don't know.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. G. REID: Mr. Speaker, I have a big interest in the sealing industry in the Province for a number of reasons, the main one being, that I represent in the House of Assembly one of the largest sealing constituencies in Newfoundland and that is Twillingate - Fogo and the other is that I worked with the Department of Fisheries where this has been a hot issue for the past - I do not know, twenty years - but in particular when I worked there from '89 until 1996, we certainly spent a lot of time discussing the seal industry, but I guess it is also because my father took part in the sealing industry back in the 60s aboard the old Kyle. He used to be the cook on the Kyle when she went to the ice so in that regard I guess, Mr. Speaker, I am the son of a sea cook.

MR. TULK: That is better than some of your relations (inaudible).

MR. G. REID: Yes, for sure.

Mr. Speaker, the sealing industry is an important and integral part of the economy in Newfoundland and Labrador. I know, representing the area of Twillingate and Fogo Island, each spring, even now, we have large and small boats geared up in February and March to head to the ice. In fact, some of these boats, one crew on Fogo Island takes sixteen individuals; these sixteen individuals find an income that time of the year -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. G. REID: Morely Rowe, on Fogo Island - sixteen individuals go out at the end of February and the month of March, and not only did they bring home a few dollars for their families, but it also gives them a few dollars so that they can gear up for the coming fishery. That is the same on Twillingate Island, Mr. Speaker, where you have a number of people.

But what I find ironic is when we look at, right now in the hon. member's petition he says: and WHEREAS seals are consuming an estimated 100,000 tons of small cod. What I find ironic about that, Mr. Speaker, is that, working with the Department of Fisheries around 1991, we could not get the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans to admit that seals ate cod, and it is only in the last year or two that they will even admit it, but we had instances on top of instances, of fishermen coming to the provincial Department of Fisheries and saying: Look, the seals are destroying the cod fish; and what they would say is, even though the seals were not eating the entire cod fish, what they would do is, they would take the belly out of them and toss the rest of it up on the ice, take the liver.

The Minister of Fisheries, Dr. Bud Hulan, claimed that whatever is in the liver, the seal needs in order to survive and when they cannot get it in other species, they will attack the cod just for the liver. But I am thankful at least that, the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans has finally come to its senses. I have gone to many conferences; one in Twillingate where there were about 150 sealers from the East Coast of Newfoundland, where a DFO scientist got up time after time, as sealers got up and said they are destroying the cod fishery, but trying to get that scientist to admit was like `pulling teeth', Mr. Speaker.

I will go down through a few more of these: and WHEREAS the sealing industry has the potential to grow in importance as new markets and seal products have been identified. Mr. Speaker, I do not know if any of you fellows and ladies happened to turn on this fashion magazine that comes on TV, a popular show on TV, if you look carefully, Mr. Speaker, you will realize that the fur industry is coming back in Europe and in North America, and we are now finding more and more markets for our fur. It is also in the meat products, Mr. Speaker, as the hon. Member for Bonavista South was saying: We eat seal, we eat seal products here in the Province and I am sure with a little push at all, we can sell seal-meat products to the rest of the world. I mean, we have third world countries where they are starving to death, and yet we are sometimes discarding all this high protein seal meat.

The other thing we are doing is the seal oil capsule, this Omega-3 that the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture talks about. This has been in the process for years; people have been investigating the medicinal properties that are found in seal oil. Other by-products that we have used is the entrails and stuff that we mince up and use in fox-farming and the Government of the Province, right back through - and it is not just this government or the preceding administration but the Tory Administration before us, spent untold dollars, Mr. Speaker, in promoting the sealing industry and supporting it through research up at the fisheries colleague. We put a lot of dollars into fox food a few years ago to keep the industry going.

The hon. member talks about the seal hunt and how we practice humane harvesting methods. There have been courses - fishermen have gone around the Province, supported by the Newfoundland government, who have taught courses on how to kill a seal and how to clean it up.

Let me - I want to talk, basically, about the `whereas' here: The people of this Province have been inaccurately portrayed as barbaric in recent anti-sealing propaganda prepared by the International Fund for Animal Welfare.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to make something clear that affected one of my constituents last spring, an incident that brought untold grief to this individual. The individual is Mr. Jack Troke of Twillingate, a man who is known all along the North East Coast of our Province, his father, Captain Peter Troke - that I had the opportunity last week to go down and give him the award on behalf of the lung association. Captain Peter Troke was the skipper aboard the Christmas Seal for twenty years. Well, his son, Jack, Mr. Speaker, has always advocated that we kill seals properly and that we do it in a humane way.

Well, last year he had the opportunity, had been asked, to take a reporter from the IFAW - this Fund for Animal Welfare - out on this boat. And he wanted to prove - his son had done it the year before with, I think it was National Geographic or some magazine down in the States and they portrayed the seal kill like it should have been done. They did it objectively, they reported what they saw. So, Jack, last year, thinking - Mr. Troke himself - thinking that he could once and for all, prove to the world that we are humane, we are not barbaric in the killing of seals, took this individual out on his boat. And everything went all right; he killed a seal in the humane way, the way that is being laid down by federal fisheries. Three or four days later he saw a clip on TV, the clip that all of you saw, about him hauling the seals - gaffing seals, pelting seals that were still alive. That did not happen on his boat, Mr. Speaker, and I want to make that clear to the public here today, that did not happen on his boat.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. G. REID: In fact, DFO did an investigation - as our minister and the Premier called for at the time - did an investigation into this incident and it was found that the tape was indeed doctored, that the tape was spliced, and that the man was innocent, but we have not heard that, ladies and gentlemen, here in the Province. So I want to make that clear today, that the man was innocent of this. And he is taking it very hard, Mr. Speaker. He is a man well-known in this Province, on the East Coast, and he finds it difficult when he shows up at a function and someone is pointing a finger at the man.

MR. TULK: Well-respected in the Province.

MR. G. REID: Well-respected in the Province. So, I want to make this clear that this man tried to help the sealing industry and now he is being portrayed as the villain here in this Province. I want to clear his name.

Mr. Speaker, while I agree, for the most part, with the resolution, I do have a problem with going out with a massive promotional campaign.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. G. REID: Jack Troke.

I worked with the Minister of Fisheries here a few years ago, Walter Carter, who was Minister of Fisheries with the Tory Party. At the time, back in the l970s, Frank Moores started this campaign. It was a colossal failure because all that did was draw attention to the issue, and that is what these people crave - attention. Mr. Carter told me of many times when he and the then Premier, Frank Moores, went around the world, went to London and he tells me he remembers one particular incident that happened in New York City. They were in an audience in New York City of 400 or 500 people and Frank was in his glee; he was on that stage and he was pounding home the fact that we were doing this in a humane way and that it was okay to kill seals and he said it seemed like they were swaying the public in the audience that night to their side. He said, when out of the back came this little old lady with a cane, waving her cane, calling us barbarians, murderers: `Drive them out of the audience!' and with that it was gone, we lost it.

So, I am afraid that if we start a campaign against these individuals, we are falling into their hands. I agree with the Member from Bonavista when he says we should not announce that we are increasing quotas. Ladies and gentlemen, if there is a run on lamb chops we do not come out from the federal Department of Agriculture and announce we are going to increase the quota of slaughtering baby lambs next year. We do not do that. So I think he is right, the Member from Bonavista, when he says that we should not advertise these quotas.

MR. FITZGERALD: Why do they call them baby seals? We do not talk about baby cows.

MR. G. REID: That is right, we do not talk about quotas on cows and pigs and lambs. We have to be careful when we talk about that. So, I would suggest - even though I support your resolution - I suggest that we have to be very careful, because we do not want to create a platform. We do not want to go across the country, down in the States and over in Europe saying, `Listen, we kill seals in a humane way.' Because there are people in the world who, let's face it, do not like to see anything killed. We have to be careful when we talk about that.

In my estimation, as far as I am concerned, what we should do is continue on the path we are going. Go out, kill our seals, and if the quota needs to be increased, we increase it. We do not make a big fanfare of it. We do not go out and give them a reason to come back at us.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I will sit down and let somebody else have a few words.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright - L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to have a few words on the resolution put forward by the Member for Baie Verte. I think it is a good resolution and I think it is one that we all have to get together and support in this Province.

I listened to the Member for Twillingate - Fogo when he talked about promotions that have been done and how people and leaders in this Province have gone out across the country and tried to portray the image of the seal fishery. I think we have come quite a distance from that time through the marketing, the research, the development and the emphasis that we have put on creating new markets for this species. But I think there is also a different kind of image that we have to portray regarding the seal fishery and that is the image of the people who have become dependent upon this as a way of life, as an income, as a means of cultural identity.

I listened to the Member for Torngat Mountains when he talked about the people of the Torngats and their dependency on the seal fishery, and it is no different in my area. It was a vital source of income for the people there, in all northern communities, I guess, in Canada for a number of years. I think it was in 1987 when the Royal Commission put out the report on sealing and even then, it recognized how the loss of income from the sealing industry had weakened the economic base of communities and the survival of communities. I think if we are going to do promotion, we should promote these communities and the state that they are in today.

I refer to my district, in the community of Black Tickle, a community that had built an industry in the seal fishery. For years and years it was a cultural part of their identity as people, but they were barred out, they were protested out, they were regulated out until everything closed down and there was nothing left. Today they are feeling the impact of that loss. Their economy has been weakened by it. Their community has been weakened by it and their people have lost a great deal because of it.

What we have to do today is reach out to the people in this nation and show them that the people who are funding the IFAW, the people who come from the wealth and the riches of this world, are putting their money, investing their money into putting other people into poverty in this country and that is exactly what is happening. It is happening in my own district and I see it on a daily basis. I think that if we can go out there we can portray that image and we can portray it very factually, in a very dignified way that brings a lot of credibility to this industry and to the people who partake in it.

Now, I guess we are launching into a different kind of industry in terms of sealing. We have had a life-long dependency upon it as a resource for clothing, food, oil or whatever, the skins, the furs and it was all a source of income for people, but I guess the sealing industry has changed and is continuing to change. It has taken on a whole new face in the country, across the world. It is taking on a new identity and a new label. As I said, a lot of it is due to research and development of marketings, of refining the way that we hunt and do things.

Now we are doing a feasibility study in my district today into the commercial seal fishery. We have just launched it in recent weeks and we are investing money into looking at the feasibility of hunting, harvesting, and processing these seals on the Coast to try and put some economic wealth back into that community, to try and put an industry back into the community of Black Tickle.

This project hopefully is going to show us and help us determine that this industry can be feasible without netting. Because that is the primary thing, that focus, because of the IFAW and their protest, that has taken away the harvesting method of aboriginal people to be able to go out and hunt and do this the way they had always done. Of course, it is a lot more difficult to have a commercial seal hunt in Labrador without netting than it is on the Island. Because you don't have the access to the ocean because of the heavy Arctic ice and so on. Hopefully this pilot is going to be able to allow us to be able to operate this fishery in a viable way once again. I look forward to the results of that.

I just want to conclude by saying I support the resolution as put forward by the Member for Baie Verte. I indeed think it is a good resolution and one we have to stand by in this Province. We are going to continue to bring wealth into it because of the sealing industry and what it can provide to us. I thank you very much.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I understand we have agreed the Member for Baie Verte, who is the mover of this motion, will speak and we will put the vote, and adjourn for the day.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I would like to get up and just have some concluding remarks on this particular motion put forward today. I must say, I must thank all the members who spoke here today, and spoke very clearly about how we as Newfoundlanders and Labradorians feel on this issue. I guess what I could say, and we just said to the Government House Leader, we could spend all night here and every single person in this House would probably get up and say the same thing. I just want to conclude with a couple of points.

First and foremost, the problems in our Province have been around for a long time. I guess the timing is what I've said. The timing for this particular industry and the potential it has, that is right at our doorstep right how, it is not a better time for us as Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to stand behind this industry that makes so much sense and logic that we have such an argument that we can put forward to anywhere in this country or anywhere in this world. Here we are an island of just 500,000 people with an industry that has so much potential, an industry that - the sealing industry, the hypocrisy I guess of it, and I mentioned it before, is that here is our fishery in crisis from this problem, and instead of that being a problem, it could be actually helping in a two-fold way. A double yammy, as one member used to say.

That is, that we help our fishing industry by this ecological succession of what happens with the sealing industry and the seals eating fish, and at the same time put people to work. It makes so much sense that we should be making sure that we use every effort possible to put that forward.

I do want to make a note on what the Member for Twillingate & Fogo said a few minutes ago about Mr. Troke in his district. Very well-respected in the sealing industry, indeed, all around this Province. I'm glad the member spoke about it today, because in one of the parts of my resolution I talk about how they portray us as being barbaric. This gentleman in this industry has a lot of respect and knows exactly, from a young boy, what it is like to be on the ice floes. He knew what he had to do - Mr. Troke, who the Member for Twillingate & Fogo talked about earlier.

The member from Labrador and the Members for Cartwright - L'Anse au Clair and Torngat Mountains who talked earlier know full well how important it has been to the people in their districts. Not just a job. The word "job" is not enough. It is a way of life, that is what it is. It is more than that. It is feeding you, it is feeding your children, it is clothing them, and at the same time providing a source of income. It makes all the sense in the world.

I want to say to every member here today and to the government that along with everybody else we support this totally. We think it is time to raise the flag on it. The last part of the resolution very simply says "a joint effort to repudiate these misrepresentations of the seal industry by developing" - and I say to the Member for Twillingate & Fogo - "a promotional campaign..."

I'm not a professional advertiser. I don't pretend to be, or nobody in this House, but if both levels of government got together with the professional people across this country, the same way you promote when you go into an election, the same way you try to get your message across when there is a campaign on, we use the same people, the professionals who know what they are doing, to sit down jointly as a group. We go together and sit down with those people who know what to do to get a message out to every Newfoundlander and Labradorian number one, but, number two, to everybody across this country, and the Newfoundlanders and Labradorians across this country.

My sister, who I talked to in British Columbia just a little while ago, gets thrown off when she sees that advertisement. She has to explain it to her neighbours in British Columbia. She said, `It would be nice to see something on your end say it.' That is where the idea came from.

I don't know how we do it. I am not sure, and I don't pretend to know, but I think we should sit down together and develop a campaign of either speeches across the country by the ministers, or some kind of advertisement on TV or radio, or whatever, to get the message out for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, but at the same time for our fellow Canadians who can stand up in Toronto and Calgary and Edmonton and so on and say: Newfoundlanders and Labradorians know what they are doing. They are humane people who are trying to make a living.

That is what we should do, Mr. Speaker, support all of those, and we do need a morale boost.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SHELLEY: I will finish by saying, let's get together on this, all for one, and do the right thing at the right time when the timing is perfect.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Is the House ready for the question?

All those in favour of the resolution, say `aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those opposed, `nay'.

Let the record show that the resolution was carried unanimously.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, before we adjourn, I think we are going to do some heavy legislation tomorrow that stands in the name of the Premier, "An Act To Amend The Intergovernmental Affairs Act". Then, I think, we will move into the Income Tax Act, the Tobacco Tax Act, and the Memorial University Pensions Act - time permitting, that is.

I move that the House do now adjourn.

On motion, the House at its rising adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, at 2:00 p.m.