April 13, 2005 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No. 10


The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: This afternoon we have members' statements as follows: the hon. the Member for the District of Bellevue; the hon. the Member for the District of Windsor-Springdale; the hon. the Member for the District of Mount Pearl, and the Minister of Justice and Attorney General asks leave if he could make a member's statement. I believe there is agreement on that.

The hon. the Member for the District of Bellevue.

MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate four constituents of mine on their recent participation in the Miss Teen Newfoundland and Labrador Pageant.

Mr. Speaker, sisters, Nikita and Katie Hickey of Grand Le Pierre, Vanessa Dicks of Fair Haven and Shealie Keating of Mount Arlington Heights were four of the twenty-three young women who participated in the four day event held in St. John's in February of this year. Mr. Speaker, all of these young women did an excellent job in representing their communities and should be very proud of their accomplishments.

Mr. Speaker, I would also like to make special mention of the Hickey sisters from Grand Le Pierre as Katie Hickey won the title of Miss Teen Fitness and Nikita Hickey won the title of Miss Teen Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House to join me in congratulating Katie, Nikita, Vanessa and Shealie and all their pageant participants in the 2005 Miss Teen Newfoundland and Labrador Pageant.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Windsor-Springdale.

MR. HUNTER: Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to rise in the House today to recognize the accomplishments of Jonathan Howse of Springdale. Jonathan has competed at the Corner Brook triathlon at the age of sixteen and seventeen in 2002 and 2003. For the past six years he has raced mountain and road bikes at the provincial level, at the Atlantic Region level and during the summer he has raced Mountain Bike Nationals at Mount Saint Anne, Quebec. The Caledon Triathlon in Ontario was next.

His greatest accomplishment thus far would be the Royal Victorian Marathon, while running amongst 3,000 runners, at the age of seventeen he won his marathon event for his age group sixteen to nineteen years. His time on this event was three hours and nine minutes which qualified him for the Boston Marathon, but was not old enough to qualify. However, on Monday, April 18, Jonathan Howse will be competing in the one hundred and ninth Boston Marathon.

I would like all hon. members of this House of Assembly to join me today in congratulating Jonathan Howse on a job well done and wish him the best on the upcoming marathon.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Mount Pearl.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand here today to congratulate the participants and winners of the Pee Wee AAA Aliant Atlantic Hockey Tournament that was held in Mount Pearl this past weekend.

Teams participating were Team Newfoundland, the host team Mount Pearl, Team Nova Scotia, Team P.E.I. and Team New Brunswick.

Mr. Speaker, at the end of the tournament the standings were, the gold medal went to Team New Brunswick, the silver to Team Nova Scotia and the bronze to Team P.E.I.

I must also commend how smoothly the tournament ran. Mr. Speaker, the volunteers did an excellent job. There were no problems encountered, as they had all the bases covered. I have participated in a number of tournaments in the past, but I have to say this was done very, very well. My hat goes off to the tournament organizers, the Mount Pearl Minor Hockey Association, and the volunteers.

Mr. Speaker, tournaments like this enable children to create friendships that will last a lifetime. The reaction from the parents who attended this tournament was very positive. The hospitality that Mount Pearl extended was phenomenal. All visitors thoroughly enjoyed their visit to Newfoundland and Labrador and they said, without any hesitation, they are looking forward to their next visit to our Province.

I ask this House to join with me in congratulating all the participants and the volunteers for a job well done.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to seek leave of the House to congratulate four incredible curlers on their most recent accomplishments. I understand from the hon. Government House Leader that leave has been granted, for which I thank him.

Last winter, after winning their third consecutive Provincial Men's Senior Curling Championship, the team from Corner Brook, consisting of skip Bas Buckle, third Bob Freeman, second Gerry Young, and lead Harvey Holloway, headed off to British Columbia to compete in the Canadian National Senior Curling Championships. The team completed the tournament with an impressive 8 to 3 record and won the Canadian Senior Curling Championship title. This was the first time a rink from Newfoundland and Labrador ever accomplished this tremendous accomplishment.

Winning the title gave the team the right to go to the World Senior Curling Championships in Sweden, and Bass, Bob, Gerry and Harvey headed off, where they completed the tournament with a perfect 9 to 0 record and became the first Newfoundland team ever to win the World Senior Championships. This was truly a remarkable achievement.

Due to a scheduling conflict this year they were unable to take part in the defense of their Canadian Championship, but instead went right to Scotland for the World Championships, and there, after a very tough tournament, and after a very competitive round robin, and some nail bitting and a tie breaker, the Buckle rink were off to the playoff round where they defeated the United States by a score of 5 to 4; two consecutive World Championships. Some people might have considered their first World Championship lucky or flukey, but this second championship title proves that this team is undeniably the best Senior Men's Curling Team in the world.

Mr. Speaker, to my knowledge, this is the first time in the history of our Province that a local individual, group or team has ever won two consecutive world sporting championships. This fabulous foursome have proven once again that the people of this Province are capable of competing on a world level and of being successful. Their accomplishments have instilled a sense of pride in the residents of our Province, and in the City of Corner Brook in particular. They have become a model for the young curlers in our Province, and have proven that with hard work and dedication we are able to accomplish anything we set our minds to.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of the House to join me in extending congratulations and thanks to Bas, Bob, Gerry and Harvey for their tremendous accomplishments and the wonderful job that they have done in representing our Province and our country.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am happy to rise today to announce that my department is helping schools to take out their e-waste. Electronic waste is not something many of us would think about. In fact, Mr. Speaker, some may question, what is electronic waste? Is it a deleted file, a new computer game, or an unusable hard drive?

Electronic waste, or e-waste, is old computers, monitors, or other related equipment that have reached the end of their useful life cycle. Each year, thousands of pounds of electronic waste ends up in landfills throughout Newfoundland and Labrador. While many computers and computer parts can be recycled or refurbished, many simply end up in our provincial dumps.

Today, Mr. Speaker, we are pleased to announce that we have contributed $60,000 to Computers for Schools for a pilot project that would see obsolete technology professionally processed by Noranda, a world leader in electronic hardware recycling.

I am sure all hon. members are aware of the great work done by Computers for Schools in this Province, and throughout the country. Since 1993, this program has delivered approximately 12,000 computers to schools and libraries in Newfoundland and Labrador. The volunteers of CFS collect, repair and deliver surplus computers donated by government, private corporations and individuals.

Now, Mr. Speaker, Computers for Schools want to expand their mandate by assisting in the removal of old computers from our schools and libraries. The benefits of this are twofold, Mr. Speaker: the problem of improper or insecure storage of these technologies is addressed, making our schools and libraries safer; and, up to 120,000 pounds of e-waste will be diverted from our landfills.

We are delighted to partner with Computers for Schools for this innovative pilot project. I commend the organization for once again setting a new standard in computer recycling in our Province. Today I encourage, and indeed I challenge, other organizations to support Computers for Schools in their efforts in this area, and help keep our schools and libraries safe for our students.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I guess that is what our truckers are going to hauling this summer, instead of fish.

Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for his statement today but it raises more questions than it gives answers. It is my understanding that we are going to pay $60,000 to have old computers taken out of classrooms and sent to a company in Ontario. I ask the minister: How many computers are we going to get in return for this?

I also ask the minister: What about the Telephone Pioneers? I do not know if he is familiar with that group. This is a group of retired Aliant workers who refurbish computers in this Province. It is my understanding that computers from elsewhere in the country are actually being shipped here to be refurbished, so I wonder if you have looked at that option.

I would also like to say to the minister, it is nice to see him taking the old computers out of the classrooms, but I ask the minister: How much money has he put into putting new computers back in this year?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is a very curious statement, that this government is going to spend $60,000 on a program to ship computers to Noranda in Ontario when, in fact, Hewlett-Packard, another computer company, has a program that provides transportation and is involved in this program, brings it all to Noranda and operates it. So, I do not know why we have to pay for this.

I would think, Mr. Speaker, that this minister would be concentrating more on trying to fix the schools, fix the roofs in the schools, where flooding has occurred in the last few days, where parents and students and teachers have to work in unsafe conditions, and do something about that, rather than deal with a program that, in fact, could be paid for, could be looked after, by a private enterprise who are already doing this program elsewhere in the country.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers.

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, just like a year ago at this time, the Premier is once again showing his lack of respect for union members in this Province. He is trying to dismiss the decisions of the union leadership. He shows no respect for the democratic processes followed within the union, and he is once again trying to bypass the internal processes of union members in this Province.

I ask the Premier: Why does he feel it necessary to try and create divisions inside a union instead of addressing the real issue, which is his own unilaterally imposed production quota system?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There is no attempt by myself or this government to divide the union. There is solidarity in the union. I think everybody knows that. That is not an issue. If, in fact - and my comment was I do not know if there is 100 per cent there. If you are making reference to the fact that we came out yesterday and indicated that we wanted to help plant workers, well I think it is important that this government help the plant workers because they will be the ones that are most seriously affected.

In particular, I think it is worth pointing out that we are responding to a news release from Mr. Joyce who said that government must help plant workers. So, what do you want? Do you want us to help them? If we are going to help out plant workers, then we are going to be accused of dividing the union? Our role here as a government is to help those who need help and that is what we are doing. So, we have responded. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You cannot ask for one thing when we say we are going to do it and then criticize us for it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday again the Premier continued to try the divide and conquer approach with the union on the crab production quota issue rather than seeking solutions. The Premier made a comment to the media that he will protect fish harvesters who want to fish on a one-off basis. That was his quote.

I ask the Premier: Why are you, with your actions and words, trying to drive a wedge between union members? What exactly does it mean when you say you will deal with any fish harvesters on a one-off basis? How does that work in your mind?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition knows the difference. If he saw the interview that was on television last night and he heard what I said - his own employees were present when I said it. I said that we had been contacted on a one-off basis by members of the union who had a different opinion. We are not saying we are trying to split them or we are going to go out and protect them. That is not what was said. So there is no need to be trying to give someone a different impression, to the people in this House, the members of this House, the people in the galleries, or the people in the general public. That is not what I said. I said we have been contacted on a one-off basis by individual members. We cannot stop them from phoning us. If they phone, we will answer their calls. We cannot do anymore than that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We can provide the tapes, which I did listen to verbatim, in which the Premier talked about dealing with fish harvesters on a one-off basis.

Yesterday the Premier announced his intentions to create a support program that would be established for plant workers who are affected by this particular impasse. I say to the Premier, you have already broken your word to the fish harvesters regarding consultation on the production quota system, and that was in writing.

My question to the Premier is this: What assurances can you give to plant workers that you will honour the commitment that you gave orally yesterday anymore than you honoured the commitment you gave the fish harvesters, in writing, that you would not do this without consultation?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I can give the fish plant workers my complete assurance that I will honour what I said here yesterday publicly in this House of Assembly, before visitors in the gallery, before the people who are watching on television, before the people of the Province. I give them 100 per cent assurance that I stand by my word.

You are misleading, as well, when you indicate that I have written - I put something in writing. You are saying that I put something in writing. There is nothing in writing from me. I read to you yesterday what the commitment was in the blueprint as to what we were going to do. We were going to try to restructure the fishery to make it stable and sustainable in the long term best interests of the people who participate in the fishery and the people of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

What we are learning from the Premier today is that unless somebody in the Province gets a commitment in writing from the Premier himself, not from a minister - a promise in writing from a minister is no good. You have to get it directly from the Premier himself or it does not count.

Mr. Speaker, let me ask this question of the Premier. I would assume because he wants everyone to believe that he thinks things through very well before he acts, that the Premier then obviously must have done some preliminary work before committing to creating some type of support program for plant workers. I am sure he would acknowledge that he did not just say that out of the blue.

I ask the Premier, can he provide further details on the program? A question like this one: Will affected crew members, truck drivers and other individuals directly tied to the crab industry be eligible for the same kind of support that he says he is going to provide for plant workers?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, what I said yesterday in response to a question, I said that we would make sure we step up to help plant workers. That is exactly what I said, and that is to give them the assurance and the comfort that we are there for them.

MR. GRIMES: (Inaudible).

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Let me tell you, we will cross that bridge when we come to it. It is not our intention to have to cross that bridge. This matter should be resolved, we are hoping it should be resolved. We are doing everything we can to see it is resolved. I wrote a letter to Mr. McCurdy saying - I have already indicated publicly here in the House of Assembly the minister is available to have a meeting, Mr. McCurdy is in receipt of that letter. In all fairness to him, it was sent to him within the last two hours, but he does have a letter indicating that we are prepared to have a meeting. So, we are doing everything we can. Hopefully, it will not be necessary to have to provide support to the plant workers, but if we have to we will do it. But we will cross that bridge when we come to it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On this side, Mr. Speaker, we share the sentiment as well that we will not have to do it. We should not even be talking about it today, if it was not for the pigheadedness of the Premier in the first place.

Mr. Speaker, if such a program -

[Comments from the gallery]

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Members of the public who are visitors in the gallery are reminded that the tradition of our House is that we are not to demonstrate in any way, or to show any approval or disapproval for any proceedings in the House. We wish visitors to be co-operative in the understanding of the rules of the House, and to respect the traditions and the position that the Speaker has put forward. Again, I ask you for your co-operation.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again, as I said, I hope, and we hope, as the Official Opposition, that we do not need such a program, that the government will come to its senses, have the right meetings, and get this issue resolved satisfactorily.

Mr. Speaker, let me ask this question: If such a program that the Premier committed to yesterday - and he is saying today it is for plant workers, it is not for crew members, it is not for truck drivers, it is not for anybody else, it is only for plant workers - if it is needed, and it seems like it is needed today, unless he changes his mind, will it be contingent upon federal funding like issues like the auditorium in Labrador and just about anything else that the government says they will not do - we will only do it if the federal government comes in, like in Harbour Breton - will it be contingent on federal funding, or will it be done anyway by the Province because you, personally, as the Premier, would have caused it?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: I tell you, the reason we need federal funding in this Province is because of the mess that you made of the economy in this Province. In eighteen months we are managing to start to turn this around, so we are trying to be frugal. We are trying to get whatever help we can, whether it comes to an auditorium in Labrador -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: - or whether it comes to assistance in Harbour Breton.

Let me make it very clear. We want to get federal funding in Harbour Breton, but your own member knows that we made a clear and unequivocal commitment to the people of Harbour Breton that we will help them. We will step in and intervene when the federal government does not step up, just as we have done on salmon poaching and a lot of other areas.

Just because they abandon a jurisdiction does not mean we are going to abandon the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. We will be there at the end of the day, feds or no feds.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Glad to hear it, Mr. Speaker, glad to see him accepting responsibility for cleaning up his own mess that he is making right now in the crab fishery, I say to the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, the impasse currently being experienced by crab harvesters is negatively affecting one of the most profitable industries in the provincial economy right now. Today, as well, there is a blockade in Placentia Bay that could cause problems in other sectors of the economy if it persists.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Minister of Finance: What concerns does he have that the refusal of the Premier to remove production quotas from the table will negatively impact the overall provincial economy and throw the current Budget Estimates, that we are doing these days in the Legislature, into chaos?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, I could say there is nothing that will throw it into more chaos than was left by the former Premier of this Province; nothing, absolutely nothing.

What we will do, we will not deal with hypothetical questions. We will assess based on fact and based on when something happens and impacts, and we will relate that honestly to the public. We will not hide it. We will be open with it. We are not going to deal with hypothetical in this situation. He has asked about fifteen times, hypothetical questions on finance. We want to deal with specifics. We will give them when an occasion happens, and we will give it to the people of the Province. If that requires budget adjustments, we will bring them to this House in front of the people of the Province, in the people's Legislature, and we will deal with them accordingly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Let me ask the Minister of Finance another question about the hypothetical program that the Premier has promised to plant workers if it is needed.

Preliminary estimates provided to the Official Opposition suggest that a minimum wage placed for 6,000 plant workers for fourteen weeks to qualify for minimum EI would start at around $20 million, if they do not earn the money themselves from a crab fishery.

I ask the Minister of Finance: Has he provided any such preliminary estimates to the Premier, now that he is openly speaking publicly about putting such a program in place?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, we are focusing on positives, not negatives, and we are hopeful that the fishery can get underway and that fishermen and plant workers - because we know the best program -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: We know the best program for plant workers in this Province is fishermen fishing, and landing it, and everybody happy with that process.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: Of course.

What happen if a oil rig shuts down? What happens if a disaster happens? We are going to deal with situations when they occur. Let's get on and deal with more specific action oriented questions here in the House instead of a pile of utter nonsense what-if situations.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would suggest to my friend and neighbour across the way that he not let his blood pressure get up today.

Mr. Speaker, with respect to the Minister of Finance, who is also the Member for Ferryland, let me ask him another question: Does he share in any way the concerns and the conclusion reached by Mr. Craig Westcott, the Current Affairs Editor of the Express, who states in today's edition that the government's resource management sharing plan is certainly the death knell for fish plants like the one in Aquaforte in his own district? Does he believe that or does he believe that Mr. Westcott is crazy and silly too?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, is that the same Craig Westcott who wrote an article that he responded to on him and that he entirely disagreed with? If anyone read that article. It would be worth reading, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SULLIVAN: What we will do, and people in my district - I met with people in my district. I met with 200 to 300 people in my district and I explained the process. I answered all questions. I had people here yesterday. I called them and spoke with them this morning on the telephone. I had a good, frank conversation with many in my district on this issue and anytime people in Ferryland District want a meeting to discuss this issue, I will be there and answer their questions.

I might tell you, a lot of people feel that maybe this program could very well work quite well. I am one believer who believes it is the best long-term interest for people in this Province there. That is why I support that, because I think it is the best for stability; it is best price for harvesters in the long term; it is best for stability in plants; it is best for rural Newfoundland and Labrador. We have a commitment to a lot of people as a government in this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

So, he disagrees with Mr. Westcott's conclusion that more pockets of rural Newfoundland will shrivel and die, and he is saying that is what Mr. Westcott believes. They usually quote Mr. Westcott because he criticizes Liberals. Mr. Westcott says: this plan will make sure that more pockets of rural Newfoundland will shrivel and die. He says: I think that is the best plan for Newfoundland and Labrador, says the Minister of Finance.

Let me ask one last question, Mr. Speaker, one last question, because we have heard today - we are having trouble getting real answers. We asked a question about whether it will apply to truck drivers and crew members. No answer. We asked questions to the Minister of Finance. He says: we are going to be open. No answer.

Let me ask this question, the last one to the Minister of Transportation and Works: Why is it in such an open and accountable government where they are going to tell everybody everything - because that is what they believe in, that he and his department have refused to provide information about expenditures by his department in the District of Placentia & St. Mary's when it was requested by his own MHA and seat mate and his caucus member, the member sitting just up to his right. Why did he refuse to give him the information that he asked for?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of any refusal to supply any information to any member of the House if they ask for it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will table for the minister - maybe he spends a bit more time in his office to find out what is going on in his own department. The member knows exactly what I am talking about because he is embarrassed by this particular letter.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. GRIMES: Take your time, Mr. Premier, if you want to speak, you speak. You speak when you are recognized by the Chair -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair asks the Leader of the Opposition to finish his question.

MR. GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

The minister responded that he would provide information at all times. I will provide to the House, and I have already provided to the media, a letter yesterday from the minister's office to the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's saying your request for information about expenditures in your district is denied. You applied under the Freedom of Information Act. He had to ask his own colleague, under the Freedom of Information Act, and he was turned down because he did not send in the money to pay for it.

Now, I would ask you to get the letter, it is right here, find out what is going on in your department. You are so open and accountable, you will not even tell your own members when they ask a question.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, everybody in this House are treated the same, no matter what side of the House they sit on.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: When it comes to seeking information or providing information, Mr. Speaker, everybody is treated the same.

Let me say this to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, I got back in this Province last night as a proud father who was out attending his daughter's wedding. I have not had a chance to read what happened in my department. I was at it up until five minutes before I came to the House. If a letter went out under the signature of the deputy, I am sure it was the right thing to do, it provided the right information. I make no apologies, Mr. Speaker, for being out of this House for a week to attend my daughter's wedding. None!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The applause that was given by all of them, including the Premier, means they agree with the minister that this is the standard, Mr. Speaker. This is the standard that the government will apply equally to everyone, the minister said. Equally to everyone.

The request, Mr. Speaker, is this: Can you please tell me how much money has been spent from your department in my district since November 1, 2003? Not a very complicated question. Not any detail. That is the question, and the minister has said: Anyone who asks a question like that must ask for it under the Freedom of Information Act and must pay money to get it. Now is that the standard, I ask the Premier, that if anybody wants to know an answer to a simple question like that from the open and accountable Premier, that you have to ask for it in writing, you have to ask under the law and you have to pay or you will get no answer?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, that question coming from the government and the Premier of the day who wrote the Freedom of Information Act. Mr. Speaker, what silliness, what foolishness, with all of the important things that are facing - issues facing the people of this Province today, that is the best the Opposition can do, I say shame on you!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say, Mr. Speaker, the fact that a minister -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, the fact that a Minister of the Crown, who sits in a government -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask members on both sides of the House for their co-operation so the question can be asked and there can be appropriate time for the responses.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would suggest that a Minister of the Crown suggesting that a standard being set by a government who touted before Christmas and brought in a bill about openness, transparency and accountability, and said that would be the hallmark of this government, would admit today, and be cheered by the Premier, to say, that if you ask a simple question of this government the standard that would be equally applied to everybody in the Province is, you must ask in writing, you must ask under a piece of legislation, and you must pay a fee to get an answer.

I ask the Premier: Do you find that to be silly? Do you find that to be something that is not worth talking about? Don't you find that to be a major contradiction in terms of how you promised the people of the Province that you and your government would respond to them?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, what I say again is, what is silly is the questions coming from the Leader of the Opposition. He knows they are silly. There is no basis to them. There is one set of rules for all members in this House. No matter what side of the House you sit on, Mr. Speaker, those are the rules that you use to obtain information.

I did not say it all had to be in writing. That is not what the memo says, Mr. Speaker. The Leader of the Opposition, for the second, third, or fourth time today, has been saying things that are not true. He tried to quote the Premier yesterday in saying something that is not true. He is trying to do it again now, Mr. Speaker.

With all of the important issues facing the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, the alternate Premier, the alternate government, that is all they can get on about in the Legislature today. I say, again, shame on you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

We have time in your allocation for one question.

MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, on Friday morning, on an Open Line program, the Premier told the crab fishers that the solution to the current problem was for the fishermen to get back on the water. Mr. Speaker, fishermen are back on the water this morning in Placentia Bay, blocking shipping lanes. What is the Premier going to do to get these people back on the water fishing crab, instead of back on the water blocking the shipping lanes in Placentia Bay? Mr. Premier, when are you going to act and take this seriously, and not act like it is a joke?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First of all, to the latter part of the member's question, I think, in all honesty, if you heard the Premier today, he has taken the initiative to write the President of the FFAW a couple of hours ago. We will wait for the response in trying to reach some sort of resolve to the current, I guess, situation and dispute that is within the Province.

With respect to the action taken by fish harvesters this morning in Placentia Bay, blocking shipping lanes and potentially blocking oil tankers, and oil tankers being blocked, it is a very, very serious issue, I say to the member and to all members. There are issues of public safety involved. There are issues of impacts upon the oil and gas industry. All of those matters have been referred to the appropriate authorities: Transport Canada, the Canadian Coast Guard, the RCMP, and they will deal with that. Government has no intention of putting its finger into a situation where the arms of authority within the country and within the Province have engaged to deal with the situation. We will wait for that to unfold, but I will say, in all honesty, that the impacts of such an action obviously have concerns for this government and should be of concern to all people in the Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Premier.

We are now five days into an unprecedented shutdown of the fishery, caused by government action. Mr. Speaker, it is encouraging, however, to see that the Premier is taking some responsibility for the damage he is causing to the industry by offering to support plant workers.

Mr. Speaker, will he go further and ensure us that he will also support fish harvesters, crew members, truck drivers and others who are also affected by this, or is he adopting a policy and a strategy of divide and conquer, to conquer those who oppose his policy?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think the Premier has already answered that question earlier today. The Premier responded yesterday to a press release by a member of the Opposition, and questions in the House from a member of the Opposition, on would the government be prepared to assist plant workers should this tie-up continue on indefinitely. The Premier responded in the way that everybody knows of at this point.

Mr. Speaker, all I can say further to that is to again reinforce what the Premier has said. You know, we hope that we can find a resolution to this in the short term. We hope that we can find a way to get harvesters back on the water, and processing operations in production so that plant workers, fishermen, truckers, and everybody who are involved in the industry can carry on with their livelihood, and we can come back to the other issues that are important to the people of the Province. That is our goal. It is the goal that we have had from the beginning. Our goal, also, is to try to find a solution for the fishing industry in the long term so that we can avoid the chaos that we saw in 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, and many other years.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is nice to know that the Premier responds to questions for the media but not from members of this House, on the floor of this House, where he is required to answer questions.

Mr. Speaker, now that the Premier has acknowledged and accepted some responsibility for the damage that he is causing to the industry in this Province, will he go further and reconsider his plans, as requested by the FFAW, and not just invite them into a little chat, as he did last Friday on the radio? Is he prepared to go further, reconsider his plans, consider the alternatives, have a legitimate look at the plans that have been put on the table by the fishermen's union, and go back to the drawing board and do the right thing in consultation with the fishermen, the fish harvesters, and the plant workers of this Province?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

You would believe, Mr. Speaker -

[Comments from the gallery]

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Speaker reminds members of the public, or visitors in the gallery, again, that they should not participate in any way. If the disruption continues, the Speaker will have no choice but to have the galleries cleared so that the House can continue its business.

The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, you would think, if you listened to the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, that the problems we have in the industry today are totally as a result of the raw material sharing pilot project that we have proposed. They fail to remember, Mr. Speaker, the statements made by the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture on June 6, 2003, who said, "The fish resources around the Province are the property of all residents. Those that have the privilege of harvesting and processing these resources must be respectful of this fact. It is on this basis that governments must ensure that the economic rents from these resources are equitably distributed."

She also said, "The destructive level of competition characteristic of this season must be brought under control. In this dispute, plant workers have been held hostage. The people with the lowest incomes are being impacted the greatest. We must look to our past and remember how we have worked together...."

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TAYLOR: "The current system may not be providing an equitable distribution of benefits."

Mr. Speaker, that was the situation in 2003.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TAYLOR: What we are trying to deal with now are past problems that have been neglected for far too long, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time allocated for Question Period has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Notices of Motion.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Gander.

MR. O'BRIEN: WHEREAS a consequence of the relocation of weather forecasting services from this Province has been that the workplace and social activities of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are being conducted in a far greater hazardous environment; and

WHEREAS the social, economic, business and commercial operations of our Province are impacted negatively by inaccurate weather forecasts at a far greater rate of frequency. In particular: a) threats to the safety of fishermen; b) havoc and lost productivity inflicted upon the operation of educational institutions; c) turmoil and chaotic conditions that are created when patients must reschedule long awaited appointments because of cancellations due to inaccurate forecasting of impending storms; d) impairment of groups such as business committees, sports organizations and volunteer groups to conduct their affairs in a timely, economic and effective manner so as to maintain a reasonable flow of activity; and

[Disturbance in the gallery]

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair orders that the galleries be cleared and that this House is now in recess.

Recess

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I do believe before the House recessed we were hearing the Notices of Motion by the hon. the Member for Gander. I do believe that he has some concluding sentences he would like to read into the record.

MR. O'BRIEN: WHEREAS as a result of undependable weather forecasting, it is clearly evident that this Province is paying an economic penalty far greater than could be anticipated, due to: the economic impact upon the coastal and rural workforce; the loss of productivity and added costs within the medical field when hours of work for specialists and medical staff is not fully utilized because of rescheduling caused by erroneous weather predictions; the added costs to patients and all citizens who are forced to make repeated journeys when appointments are rescheduled because of inaccurate weather forecasts; the negative economic impact on specific aspects of our tourist industry, like Adventure Tourism, who rely on accurate forecasting for their livelihood.

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador make representation to the federal Government of Canada to rescind the decision to move weather forecasting services from Gander to mainland sites and to return full weather forecasting services to this Province.

MR. HARRIS: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been raised by the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

During Question Period the Premier, in response to a question, made reference to and cited a letter that he wrote to the President of the FFAW in which he cited a request for a meeting. I am wondering whether or not that letter can be tabled in this House under the normal rules for referencing documents so that we can all know whether or not he was calling them in for a chat or whether there was any substantive offer being made to the fishermen's union in this request.

The normal rule is that when a minister references and cites a document, he is required to table the same. He made reference to this correspondence and cited his request for a meeting with the FFAW. I wonder if that could be tabled under the normal rules?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the point of order, fair enough. I guess you are looking for an undertaking to table the letter. I will endeavour to see if I can get a copy of it and do exactly that before the House ends today, I say to the member.

MR. SPEAKER: I do believe that will resolve the concern of the hon. the member.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

Orders of the Day

Private Members' Day

MR. SPEAKER: It being Wednesday, Private Members' Day, I do believe that we have a private member's motion by the hon. the Member for Grand Bank, and we ask her now to present her resolution to the House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand today to speak to my private member's motion which deals with the Burin Peninsula health care. I guess I should have titled it probably the lack of funding for health care on the Burin Peninsula.

The motion itself cites:

WHEREAS there is a need on the Burin Peninsula for improved health care services, in particular, a CAT scan; and

WHEREAS current medical needs are not being met because of the lack of adequate facilities and medical equipment; and

WHEREAS these needs were identified and brought forward to government by medical professionals; and

WHEREAS government committed during the election to complete the health facility in Grand Bank and address the health care needs of residents on the Burin Peninsula; and

WHEREAS government had an opportunity in the budget, with a projected cash surplus, to address these needs but chose not to fund any improvements to health care services on the Burin Peninsula;

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that this House of Assembly calls on government to place a CT scanner on the Burin Peninsula and recommit to construction of the health care facility in Grand Bank in this fiscal year.

Mr. Speaker, I cannot emphasis enough how important this private member's motion is, and, of course, we all know a private member's motion is an opportunity to try and get some redress for what is considered to be a lack of recognition by a government in terms of the issues that arise in a particular district. It is not just for my district, the District of Grand Bank, but what we are looking at here is the entire Burin Peninsula, and the fact that if anyone is familiar with the Burin Peninsula at all, how they could possibly make a decision that would be contrary to meeting the needs of the people of the Burin Peninsula is beyond imagination. I have some serious issues with the respect that this government decided not to fulfill a commitment that was made by the Liberal government to put a CT scanner on the Burin Peninsula. That is just one of a number of pieces of diagnostic medical equipment that is so important for people who live in remote and rural parts of Newfoundland and Labrador.

What happened in this Budget was nothing more than an assault on rural Newfoundland and Labrador, certainly an assault on the Burin Peninsula. For anyone to look at the distance you have to travel, the fact that the roads in winter are treacherous, the fact that in the spring we are looking at washouts, and clearly to suggest that - as the Minister of Health and Community Services did - if you need the services of a CAT scan, than just drive to Clarenville. It is only a two-week waiting period. So, his message to the people on the Burin Peninsula was: I am sorry, but we are not going to put a CAT scan on the Burin Peninsula. If you need the services of a CAT scan you will have to wait the two weeks. You will have to drive to Clarenville. Now, that is well and done for someone who, I suppose, does not understand the situation on the Burin Peninsula, is not familiar with the weather patterns, who does not understand the road conditions and who needs to understand, who needs to be shown that it is a wrong decision. That, in fact, to put a CAT scan on the Burin Peninsula would be the right and proper thing to do. To suggest they do not have the money for it, which he did not do, which surprised me, because I thought what he would say was - as they said to other things that was requested in the Budget. He said: Well, you guys left a mess so we did not have the money to do it. But he did not say that. What he said was: If you want a CAT scan, go to Clarenville.

Of course, we hear this government talk about regions. In fact, the Member for Burin-Placentia West is always talking about a regional approach. Well, my concern is that the region for the Burin Peninsula is going to become Clarenville. What is happening with this government is that the Burin Peninsula is losing its identity, an area of this Province that has been well known for offering services where people work, where people live, where people have grown up. It is their home, and we have seen a government now that is taking away the comforts of home. I applaud the Member for Trinity North. Obviously, he has been making the case for his district, certainly for Clarenville, and I applaud him for that, but to my chagrin, and I think to the chagrin of anybody else who is concerned on the Burin Peninsula, the Member for Burin-Placentia West has not made the same case. Here we are looking at things being directed towards Clarenville. We are seeing it in health care, we are seeing in education, and I commend - there is nothing wrong with Clarenville. I commend the Member for Trinity North, heaven forbid that I should be one to commend the Member for Trinity North for anything, but at least he is standing up for his constituents, and the people on the Burin Peninsula are living in fear, continuing to live in fear. The previous Administration put several pieces of diagnostic medical equipment in the Burin Peninsula, particularly in the health care centre in Burin, because it was the right thing to do: a mammography unit, a radiography unit, a bone density machine, all imperative to deliver quality health care.

We need a CT scan on the Burin Peninsula, and I for one will continue to fight for that most vital piece of medical equipment for the people who live on the Burin Peninsula. I ask the Member for Burin-Placentia West to fight with me to make sure, as this motion asks, that in fact funding for a CT scanner will be found in this fiscal year. It is important, it is needed, and you have to understand, if you are in a vehicle accident - and there is a case of a young woman, in fact, who was in such an accident, and there was swelling on the brain and the doctors did not know what to do. They could not attempt to send her by ambulance into St. John's or into Clarenville so they thought they would airlift her to St. John's. Well, guess what? The airstrip in Winterland was fogged in and she could not be airlifted either. She had to wait days. Her family had no idea what they were going to do. They were petrified, they were worried, absolutely worried, because the doctor was saying we really do not know what to do. We do not know what is going on inside of her head. She needs access to a CT scan.

That is just one example, and we all know of people who have been in accidents, people who need to have access to those vital pieces of diagnostic medical equipment. When you live on the Burin Peninsula, it is like living on the Northern Peninsula, it is like living on the Bonavista Peninsula. It is important to understand rural Newfoundland and Labrador. My fear is that this government has lost sight of the importance of rural Newfoundland and Labrador to the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. You do not understand. You are not being told. The message is not getting to those who make the decisions, that rural Newfoundland and Labrador matters, that you cannot treat it like you would treat an urban centre.

You cannot look at Newfoundland as only existing along the Trans-Canada Highway. You drive four hours to get down to my district - four hours. Imagine if you are down there and you are in a car accident, as happened with this young woman from Grand Bank, and cannot get access to a CT scan. You go and pay off the mortgage on The Rooms. You used the surplus that you had to pay off the mortgage on The Rooms in St. John's. Well, tell families in rural Newfoundland and Labrador how important that is. Explain to them how important it is to pay off the mortgage on The Rooms instead of funding a CT scan for the Burin Peninsula.

Talk about the health care facility in Grand Bank, the health care facility that provides services to several communities. We have a cottage hospital that is seventy years old, the only one left in Newfoundland and Labrador. It is not even a safe environment in which to visit a doctor let alone having doctors, nurses and technicians working there. It is a shame to have anybody working under those conditions, let alone going there and trying to receive good quality health care, but it is still there. It is still there because this government refused to follow through on a commitment that was made. We have a facility that is standing. We have what they call now the most expensive gazebo in North America; $3.5 million spent on steel waiting to have a structure put around it. It is a sad day when people have to look at that and know that is the respect they are getting from their government. I say their government because, as a government, you represent everybody in Newfoundland and Labrador. I may be the member for the district but you are the government and they expect you to act on their behalf, just as when we were a government we acted on behalf of everyone in the Province.

The irony in all of this is that Grand Bank, where the facility is located, in the last provincial election actually voted PC. The Community of Grand Bank actually voted PC because the Premier stood there - on three occasions he visited, during the election - and promised that he would deliver that facility.

MR. JOYCE: He never?

MS FOOTE: Yes, he did.

In fact, he said the facility was started here and it will finish here.

They believed him. They saw the winds of change were blowing. They did not want to lose out on an opportunity to see this magnificent facility completed, to see that we could get rid of the old cottage hospital, that we could take what is now a senior citizens home, which was built for patients requiring Levels I and II care, which we no longer do, of course, in seniors homes, but we now take care of people requiring Levels III and IV. We are delivering care in a senior citizens facility down there for people who require acute care Levels III and IV in a facility that was designed to take care of patients who require Levels I and II.

We have rooms that were never meant to accommodate people with such needs. We have staff working in a facility in small washrooms where they have to take in their patients, try and get two people in those washrooms, and it is a squeeze. It is not right. It is not proper. It is inappropriate. It is unrealistic. It is unfair. This government is allowing this to happen. Why? It is beyond me. You have the surplus. You have more money now than we ever had when we were the government, money allocated from the federal government for health care alone, millions and millions and millions of dollars. In fact, for the CAT scan, I will never understand why you could not take some of the money that was allocated by the federal government for diagnostic medical equipment and purchase a CAT scan. In fact, the Premier signed his name to a document that the money would, in fact, be used for what it was intended, and that was to purchase diagnostic medical equipment. So, nobody can stand in this House of Assembly or outside of this House of Assembly, or anywhere, and tell me that you could not afford to put a CAT scan on the Burin Peninsula. The only thing I have to assume is that you do not understand, are not willing to listen to, do not appreciate, the situation that people find themselves in on the Burin Peninsula. I have to assume, as well, that the one government member who represents the Burin Peninsula has not made the case or you have chosen to ignore him when he has. That is a sad reflection not only on that individual but on the government.

We have a need for a dialysis unit on the Burin Peninsula. I am told now that numbers are such that, in fact, it requires a unit be put there. Anyone who is familiar with dialysis patients and what they require knows only too well the hardships placed not only on the individual but in particular on the family, when they have to travel to another location - not only to travel but actually move to another location - in order to receive the medical treatment that they need in order to survive. For people who have that difficulty and need that particular service, it is not a pleasant outlook for any of them. They have to leave behind their homes, their families, everything they know and love, in fact, all of the things that would help someone get better, because we all know, if you are sick, it is much better to be surrounded by those who care for you and can offer you the support and comfort that you need, along with the medical treatment that you need.

Again, my fear is that the government has somehow turned a blind eye, not only to the Burin Peninsula and its health care needs but to all of rural Newfoundland and Labrador. It is a sad day when people have to beg, have to plead, to get access to proper medical care. That is what is happening here on the Burin Peninsula.

When the Minister of Health and Community Services stood and acknowledged the work of the health care foundation on the Burin Peninsula, acknowledged all of their volunteer efforts to fundraise for different pieces of medical equipment, and in this case for a CT scan, he had the nerve to tell them, look at another priority. What he told them was, forget the CT scan. You are not getting it. You do not need it. If you need it, go to Clarenville.

In essence, what he told the people of the Burin Peninsula was, you can forget about a CAT scan. We know the Premier is refusing to live up to his commitment with respect to the health care facility. We know, too, that it is not because there is no money available. In Grand Bank, where the facility is standing, waiting -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time allocated for the member's introductory comments has expired.

MS FOOTE: Time to clue up, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: A few moment to clue up? Has leave been granted?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted for some concluding statements.

MS FOOTE: Thank you.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MS FOOTE: Yes, that is right.

Just to make the point that, where we have a facility standing that requires a building to be constructed around it, the fear is that if it does not happen soon then the steel is going to deteriorate and all of the money that has been invested to date, the $3.5 million, will have been money lost.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Just about every single thing that member said is inaccurate, and I will point out each of these reasons why. The first point I will clarify, Mr. Speaker, as to why it is wrong is, you cannot end a fiscal year, whether you have a surplus in that fiscal year or whatever, or whether there is a deficit there and you allocate money - you cannot carry that money over from the end of one year and use it in the next year. That contravenes the Financial Administration Act that your government broke year after year, and the Auditor General rapped you on the knuckles every year for it. You cannot use that money. Whether it is for a cancer clinic, whether it is for a hospital, whatever it is for, you cannot use it. That collapses and goes into the consolidated fund or lack thereof and reduces borrowing or runs up extra costs.

If that member thinks we are flushed with money -

MS FOOTE: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, I only get fifteen minutes, she gets thirty.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: I didn't interrupt her and I would like to be heard, and put some facts on the table, so that the member can hear and respond to me when she gets a second chance that I don't have.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

I ask the members on my left and on my right if we could have co-operation so that the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board can give his commentary. He has limited time. We all know fifteen minutes is the allocated time, and I ask members for their co-operation so we can listen to the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

The hon. the Minister.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The member thinks we are flushed with money. I will tell her the situation. Last year, the year ending in 2003, when we took over from them, in that fiscal year was the highest deficit in our Province's history, $914 million. The year before that, their second last year in government, they ran a deficit of $650 million, the second highest in history. This past year we had the third highest deficit in the history or our Province, $473 million. She thinks we are flushed with money. We are spending half a billion more than we are taking in and we are in a better position than they ever were. That member sat in Cabinet since 1996 and the government sat there -

AN HON. MEMBER: Before.

MR. SULLIVAN: Before, actually, since 1989, that government was in power. The Burin Peninsula, I believe, had one, if not two Cabinet ministers, at times. Never, in the time they were there, ever moved money to put a CAT scan on the Burin Peninsula, never did it once.

MS FOOTE: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: Let me finish. I didn't interrupt you. I think it is only fair to give me an opportunity. In fifteen years, Mr. Speaker, they did absolutely nothing. What they did before the election in 2003, they went around and promised cancer clinics and CT scans and more MRIs. They put out hundreds of millions of dollars.

MS FOOTE: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: She doesn't want to hear it. Hundreds of millions of dollars when we had a million dollar deficit, and spent it. They knew they could not deliver on it. They knew if they ever had to get elected they could not deliver on it, and then left it to us to deal with the mess that they had.

I will talk about the CT scan on the Burin Peninsula. I will get to it in a minute. You are wrong on your facts, that it is the only cottage hospital left in this Province. You are absolutely wrong. It is not the only cottage hospital left in the Province. She is wrong on that count. She thinks that - when did you write? When are you on the record? Are you on the record? If you are, send it to us, table it, where you requested that. On the Burin Peninsula, she is trying to play politics with an issue.

Here is what happened in our Budget last year. Mr. Speaker, here is what happened. The Premier of this Province - and I attended with him at the First Ministers Meeting in September last year when we went. The Premier was instrumental in getting health money raised up from $12 billion to over $18 billion, that allows us to get $47 million more for health care in this Province than we ever got when you were there. Mr. Speaker, we are spending not just the $47 million more a year we are getting, we spent close to $120 million more on health care in this year's Budget than we did last year. There are letters that have come in from community health people involved out in the field. Doctors and other people we have spoken with have complimented government on the money they put into health care in this Province this past year.

The member only needs to know - she is playing politics with the situation. Here is why, Mr. Speaker. On the Burin Peninsula region there is a two-week waiting period for a CT scan. There are parts in this Province where they wait two and three times as long. Should we use a priority system to give equal access or should we give people in one part of the Province three times the service of another part of the Province? These decisions -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: Talk about isolation. Trepassey, the longest distance by road to any hospital in this Province. Talk about St. Vincent's and St. Mary's Bay and St. Shotts and those areas. It is a two hour drive from the southern tip, at the best of circumstances, to get to a hospital. Medical professionals make decisions based on needs of people and decisions on this side of the government, Mr. Speaker, are based on medical advice. If they wanted to do something, why didn't you ask them did they do it? She represented that district as a minister for several years - six, seven years or more - and did absolutely nothing to put a CT scan. On the dying days -

MS FOOTE: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: On the dying days of their government - Mr. Speaker, about five times she has interrupted me.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Again, I am asking members on my right and on my left for their co-operation.

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In the dying days of her government, promised hundreds of millions of dollars. They knew they could not deliver. Why didn't you do it when you were a minister? Why didn't you deliver for your people when you were a minister? Blaming it on the people on this side of the House. That is not the way to do it. That is being petty, being political, and you know it. You did not deliver it and you expect us to deliver it when medical -

MS FOOTE: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: We would like to see -

[Disturbance in the gallery]

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I am asking members of the public in the gallery, who are in the process of leaving, we appreciate your attendance, however, they should not participate in any way, show approval or disapproval for anything that is said by any member on any side of the House. If the Speaker is required to bring this matter to the attention of the House again, the Speaker will have no choice but to close the galleries for the balance of the sitting day.

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, our Province is in a mess because people are thinking like that former minister is thinking. They (inaudible) with money when you have half a billion less in this third worst fiscal year in the history of our Province and stands up, when she is no longer in government, and asks us to deliver something she did not see fit to deliver when she was in the position. Now that is hypocrisy! That is hypocrisy when you say one thing when you are in one position and do something different.

MS FOOTE: (Inaudible), Loyola.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, we would love to see a CT scan in all parts of the Province. We would love to see CT scanners everywhere. We would love to see health facilities everywhere.

[Disturbance in the gallery]

MR. SULLIVAN: When you put facilities in an area we take expert or medical advice -

[Disturbance in the gallery]

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

If members of the public who are in the gallery continue to show disrespect for the authority of the Chair, the Chair has no choice but to invoke Standing Order 22, I direct that the galleries be cleared and that they remain cleared for the balance of the sitting day.

Recess

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Continuing debate on the resolution by the hon. the Member for Grand Bank District.

I do believe the Minister of Finance and the President of Treasury Board was speaking to the House and that we had about six minutes left in the member's address.

MR. SULLIVAN: No, I had zero time left.

MR. SPEAKER: Zero time?

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Bellevue District.

MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I guess it is with great regret this afternoon that I have to get up and speak to this particular resolution. I sat here for the last number of minutes and listened to the Minister of Finance and the President of Treasury Board give a very rousing speech about ranting and roaring. It is interesting that next week, on April 20, I will be celebrating my sixteenth anniversary of sitting in this House of Assembly representing the great people of the District of Bellevue. Over the years, I have sat and listened to the Member for Ferryland. As a matter of fact, at that particular time we used to call him the ambulance chaser because everyday he was up in Question Period ranting and roaring about the great need for health care facilities around Newfoundland and Labrador, and that we need to get more money out there. This year in the Budget, the first Budget they brought down, he was so concerned about the health care facilities in Newfoundland and Labrador that he allocated $300,000 to upgrade a road that did not even belong to the government in his own district. He talked about the previous government wasting money and we should be more conscious of the dollars. Anyway, he was prepared to spend $300,000 to upgrade a private road in his district.

Mr. Speaker, Private Members' Resolutions are a very important part of the democratic process. They are an opportunity for private members on the Opposition side and on the government side to raise issues of critical importance in their districts and in the regions of the Province that they represent. They gave an opportunity to stress the importance.

When I sat on the government side, there were occasions when the Opposition presented Private Member's Resolutions and expressed concerns about things that were happening within the Province and within their districts. On a number of occasions, this government that I was a part of listened to the members and how important it was, and eventually Private Member's Resolutions became part, became a bill within the House of Assembly that was passed into law. As a matter of fact, one of the most prominent bills that was passed in the House, Mr. Speaker, was a bill that you, as a private member, had introduced in this House. Our government listened to your concerns at that particular time and introduced a resolution and a bill to give effect to the same. That was the right thing to do.

Mr. Speaker, before the Easter break there was a prime opportunity within this House of Assembly, there was a bill before the House of Assembly - for the viewing audience, a bill before this House of Assembly is to pass a law, to enforce a law, that governs expenditures within the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

At the end of the fiscal year this government that is in power was left with a $103 million surplus; a $103 million surplus over and above what they had budgeted for. What they decided to do was to take money from that particular surplus and pay off a mortgage on The Rooms in St. John's, and the other part was to pay off money of the education trust fund.

A supplementary supply bill was introduced and we proposed an amendment to that bill which, if the members on the government side had to pass, would have become law. What we did at that particular time was indicate that some of the money should be used to put the new health care facility in Grand Bank, the CAT scan for the Burin Peninsula hospital, the cancer clinic for Grand Falls, and the auditorium for Goose Bay. The private members on the government side of the House - a good friend of mine who represents the District of Burin-Placentia West, had an opportunity at that particular time to stand in his place and represent the people who elected them in the great District of Burin-Placentia West. A lot of these people who live in the District of Burin-Placentia West are friends and relatives of mine. Most of my relatives live within the District of Burin-Placentia West. Right now, they are in a difficult situation within that district and within that community. He had an opportunity to represent his constituents, but he chose not to. He decided to toe the government line and not support the people within his district. I have great respect for the man -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

MR. BARRETT: I have great respect for the member who represents the District of Burin-Placentia West, and I am sure he is genuine, and has great concerns with the people he represents. I would advise him that this was an opportunity for him to stand up for the people within his district.

As you are all well aware, the District of Bellevue covers a great number of communities on the Burin Peninsula in the Fortune Bay part of my district. There is a great crisis right now in the District of Fortune Bay with regards to health care. There is a great need for more doctors and more greater care within the Fortune Bay part of the district.

Right now, we have a doctor who is overworked, a great doctor, one of the greatest doctors that ever practiced in Newfoundland and Labrador, in Bay L'Argent, Doctor Acharya. I have been at this person's home in the middle of the night sitting down having a cup of tea with him and the knock comes on the door. Sometimes the knock comes on the door with the person with a finger in one hand trying to get in to get it sowed on. This doctor dedicates his life to the people of Fortune Bay.

Over in Terrenceville, Grand Le Pierre and English Harbour East - senior citizens in my district have to get a taxi right now from English Harbour East and travel right to Burin to be able to see a doctor. At one time, when the Liberal government was in power in Newfoundland and Labrador, the doctor visited the community of English Harbour East once or twice a week and had a clinic, and in Grand Le Pierre and in Terrenceville. This government, that has no concern for rural Newfoundland and Labrador, has cut out that particular service. I think it is utterly ridiculous. A lady, ninety-two years old in a wheelchair, has to be bundled aboard a car and shipped off to Marystown to receive medical attention. This government says it is done because we do not have enough money, this government that sent Bill Rowe to Ottawa for $350,000 on a six month vacation, you are telling a senior citizen in English Harbour East that you have to get aboard of a car and travel to Burin to seek medical attention, and this is a caring government? Come on! It is utterly ridiculous!

They had enough money to spend $500,000 on a study to do a tunnel for the Strait of Belle Isle, $500,000 wasted, to tell the Premier what people in the Department of Transportation and Works could have told him without spending the money.

Mr. Speaker, I have been a member for sixteen years. I visit a lot of people in my district. I spend a lot of time visiting people in my district, and there is nothing more heartbreaking than to see or visit a home where a senior citizen has come down with Alzheimer's and one member of the family is left. Recently, I was involved with a family where the parent involved was just in the early stages of Alzheimer's, medically discharged from a hospital, waiting for a bed. Do you know what this caring health system was going to do? It was going to send somebody from the extreme East Coast of Newfoundland and Labrador to a transition bed in Stephenville.

We are talking about the people on the Burin Peninsula and, for these people who are not aware, the people on the Burin Peninsula are people who worked by the sweat of their brow, people who left and went out on the draggers under all kinds of extreme conditions and under poor working conditions, and worked by the sweat of their brow. Now that gentleman is eighty years old and, after working all their lives, you are saying to them: Go to a transition bed in Stephenville.

Look, senior citizens need to be as close to their home base as possible because of their family. I compliment the Member for Trinity North. I hope that the chronic care facility goes in Clarenville, but there are no guarantees. The Premier made the commitment before. He made the commitment to the people of Grand Bank and did not live up to it.

I have people in my district right now - when this person was in the Cabinet, the money was allocated for the study and to do the preliminary planning. Remember the Member for Trinity North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair is have difficulty hearing the Member for Bellevue speak. I ask that the member be heard in silence.

The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is a very serious issue. It strikes to the heart of me, when you have to go and visit your constituents and talk to senior citizens and there is no place for them to go, when you have to go to talk to people in the communities and say you have to go to a chronic care facility in St. John's.

I just had an aunt who died in August, who had to leave her home and come into St. John's. It was lucky that I was in St. John's and was able to visit her, but supposing somebody in Terrenceville or Grand Le Pierre, their mother or father has to come into St. John's and go into a chronic care facility. How often are they going to visit their parents? How often? Tell me this. You had the opportunity, when you had the $103 million, to put a decent facility in Grand Bank, Newfoundland and Labrador, for the people on the Burin Peninsula who worked by the sweat of their brow and made this Province what it is today, and you people on the other side, like puppets, supported the Minister of Finance and the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador whose objective is to wipe out rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

Somebody said to me the other day, when I was out in the district at a function: Percy, when are you going to get the money to dig a trench across by Goobies? Because this government is hell-bent on eliminating the Burin Peninsula from the economy of Newfoundland and Labrador.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. BARRETT: The Member for Kilbride can laugh all he likes, but the people on the Burin Peninsula are feeling neglected by this particular government, and alienated by this particular government. You tell that to a senior citizen who has to leave home. You tell that to a senior citizen, that they have to go into a dilapidated condition in Grand Bank in a old facility that is seventy years old. You tell them that. You tell that to the people of Grand Bank and the people of Burin, the people of Red Harbour and Baine Harbour and Boat Harbour, and all these communities, the people who have worked all their lives to provide for the families, and now, in their senior years, have to be uprooted from their homes and sent miles and miles away from their family.

You can sit there, Member for Kilbride, in your heartless mood, but this Member for Bellevue has a heart, and the reason why we allocated the money for the Grand Bank facility is to put a heart on Grand Bank and a heart for the people on the Burin Peninsula.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, I support wholeheartedly this resolution, and today I will stand in my place and support my hon. colleague from Grand Bank, and support the people on the Burin Peninsula, for this badly needed health care facility in Grand Bank and CT scanner for Burin. I have to vote with my conscience and for the people up there. Most of them are good friends and relatives of mine. We have no other recourse but to do the decent thing and take some of the money with which they are going to pay off The Rooms in St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador, and put a facility in Grand Bank for the people on the Burin Peninsula, and a CT scanner.

A few years ago - if you want to talk about the conditions on the Burin Peninsula - I once went to the Burin Peninsula to do a Canada Pension appeal. For five days I was stuck on the Burin Peninsula and could not get through the rock cut in Rushoon because of drifting, and bad weather conditions and road conditions at that particular time.

I am calling on the members of the government today to vote for this particular resolution and the government tomorrow bring in a bill, that they will do a Supplementary Supply Bill, and live up to the promise -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the hon. Member for Bellevue that his time has expired.

MR. BARRETT: - that the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador made to the people of Grand Bank. A promise is a promise.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burin-Placentia West.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It gives me pleasure to stand and speak to the member's motion. I am particularly pleased to hear the Member for Bellevue get up and speak because, as much as he has represented his district, the portion of his district that is on the Burin Peninsula I am very, very familiar with. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, I was principal in the school in Jacques Fontaine for some six years, so I probably know the issues of that portion of his district almost as well as the member himself.

If there is one thing that rings true in his statement today, Mr. Speaker, that speaks well of this particular issue - and it is true what he said, this particular area of his district and the northern part of my district rarely gets mentioned in this House. He is right, there is not the medical staff down there to tend to their needs. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, on Sunday past I met with a group in the northern part of my district, and this is exactly what they are doing. They have asked for fair representation on the Peninsula, that if there is something that is going to be in Grand Bank, or in Marystown, that they have the same access to care. I was very pleased to hear the Member for Bellevue bring these issues up.

I thought I would start by looking at some of the things that came through in the Budget that I feel are as much for the people on the Burin Peninsula as they are for anywhere in the Province. As I glance down through the items, I look at a number that says there will be $23.2 million invested this year in additional procedures, medical procedures. We are looking at $44,000 additional, and these are in the area of increased MRI examinations, an increase in cardiac surgeries by 184 or 180. Then they are looking at increasing the number of cancer surgeries that are going to be delivered. If we look at the number of diagnostic assessments that are going to be administered over the course of the year, I cannot stand here other than to say that these issues are as important to the people of the Burin Peninsula as they are to all people in the Province.

I spoke to a lady today who I went to see in the hospital about a month ago. She is there due to a cardiac condition. She has been that length of time waiting. This Saturday past she had her assessment done. The dye test was completed and now she is home waiting to come back into St. John's again to see what is going to be done further. If I stand in her shoes than I can see that she probably would say that this is an investment in something that she has a need for.

Mr. Speaker, this government is setting out a plan for health care. The number one issue, as identified by the Canadian Medical Association and identified provincially, is wait times. So, where do we start? We start with wait times. The areas related to wait times: cardiac surgery, joint replacement, cancer surgeries, eye surgeries and diagnostic imaging. In the list that I have just quoted, I believe, Mr. Speaker, these are among that list. So, therefore, as a government, we have set out a plan and we are beginning with priorities, and so where it should be. Not only that, Mr. Speaker, we are listening to the experts, the professionals in the field who are recommending and asking us to do this. These are not political decisions. These are decisions based on sound evidence and expert opinion.

So, Mr. Speaker, if I look back to the Burin Peninsula - again, if I refer to the three areas of Grand Bank, the member opposite, Marystown-Burin, my district, and then the Bellevue district. Over the last short while I have had meetings with people to bring people together with a common focus, and that focus being: let's get what we need for health care on the Burin Peninsula. I have to ask certain questions. I have to ask the Member for Grand Bank, when a decision is made to put a third facility in an area that already is seeing $3.3 million, I believe spent on it, and we are looking at a $17 million facility, and then just look at the geographics of the area. I have to ask her - she was willing to support putting another facility that already has two facilities that would be about a thirty-five minute driving distance from that facility that she is proposing. I would also ask her what impact the building of this facility would have on another facility that is in her district in St. Lawrence? We have a facility that is in St. Lawrence that has beds empty. We have a wing on the Burin Peninsula health care facility that was empty and now she was proposing to build a third one, thirty-five minutes away from the facility that was initially put there by a Conservative government that said -

MS FOOTE: You don't know what you are talking about.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, she was proposing to put a third facility in an area that was thirty-five minutes driving distance from a facility that was put there by the previous Conservative government. People on the Peninsula saw that this particular facility was going to be the centre of health services on that Peninsula. Not only that, the two facilities that are already present were underutilized. I say again, one wing of the hospital that was closed down and another area in the St. Lawrence facility were beds that were not being used.

I would ask the hon. member -

MS FOOTE: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JACKMAN: I would ask the hon. member across the way: Where would the Burin Peninsula health care facility be right now if that $3.3 million had been invested in that facility, the key facility that was supposed to be the focal point of the Peninsula? I would say to her, that it would be much further ahead than what the members opposite keep referring to as the gazebo that is standing in Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: There shouldn't be a gazebo (inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, I am asking the member opposite - the member started out by saying, in her statement today, that she wants to work with me to improve the quality of health care on the Burin Peninsula. I am going to say to her, she knows that this government has cancelled the facility in Grand Bank and that they are willing to turn it over to the town, that structure, for a nominal fee.

I am asking her to forego that and let her work with me, as the Member for Burin-Placentia West. I am certainly willing to work with her to promote the cause of health care on the Peninsula.

Mr. Speaker, I could have gotten up here today and I could have spoken on certain things, but intentionally I did not get up and get into the uncharacteristic things of mentioning members' travel or the fact that there could be political motives involved in establishing things.

MS FOOTE: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JACKMAN: I decided not to do that kind of thing, Mr. Speaker. What I have done, and what I continue to do, is to ask the Member for Grand Bank and to ask the Member for Bellevue to work with me so that we can work with the groups on the Peninsula to establish what is priority. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, we did not get to meet with the Burin hospital foundation. It was planned but, as everyone knows, Minister Ottenheimer took ill and he could not get there. I have been speaking to Mr. Tilley of the regional board, and department officials, and we intend to travel to meet with the people on the Peninsula involved in the fundraising arm, and so on and so forth, and we established a priority. I am asking the Member for Grand Bank, that she work with me on that particular issue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, we are committed to health care in the Province and on the Peninsula.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, I can assure the member who continues to banter over there that we plan to operate this way: First, we plan. Secondly, we take professional advice, and then we act on the information provided to us. These will not be political decisions, Mr. Speaker. They will be the right decisions, and I ask the members across the way to support me on that.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I should say that, by agreement between myself and the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, and with the consent of the Government House Leader, we are going to share the time for this speaker, the fifteen minutes.

I just want a few minutes, Mr. Speaker, to record my support for the motion put forth by the Member for Grand Bank. I think, on its face, when you read through the motion one by one, each element of that motion, I think, is very sensible, supportable, and ought to be supported by the people of this House, referencing a need for improved health care services and, in particular, a CT scanner.

We know, Mr. Speaker, that we have additional monies available in this Province, that were made available by the First Ministers' health care accord last September, that put additional monies in the hands of this Province, some $33 million, $50 million over a period of a number of years, specifically earmarked for diagnostic services in part but also to shorten wait times.

We also know, Mr. Speaker, of the considerable transportation difficulties from the Burin Peninsula to the nearest facility in Clarenville. It is all very well to say there is a road, Mr. Speaker, but anyone who has travelled the Burin Peninsula road in winter knows that it is a precarious journey many times and not something that we would want to force people to go into under emergency conditions.

It is something that can be supported, Mr. Speaker, and the money should be available from the new health care accord money that was specifically earmarked for diagnostic services.

Also, Mr. Speaker - and I am trying not to be political here, because we have had a change of government - this was a hospital that was planned by the previous government, but it was planned, Mr. Speaker. It was done with medical support. It was done with advice from medical professionals, and it was put there. It may not have been finished right away, and I know that has been referenced by members opposite, that the hospital was not completed, but there was a reason, Mr. Speaker, and the reason was financial. That reason has changed considerably. There has been a change of government, and first going off the new government had a situation that they claimed they faced which was going to force them into a $362 million cash deficit last year.

We saw, Mr. Speaker, after all was said and done, and the books were in after the first year, what we had instead was a $103 million cash surplus. What a change, Mr. Speaker, in one year. So, we have seen that the financial projections that they had were way off and, in fact, money is now available to do the work of completing the health care facility that was planned, that was on the planning books.

We also know, Mr. Speaker, that on a go-forward basis there is considerable money available to undertake this project. In fact, the money will be available in part as a result of the new Atlantic Accord but also because the Province's financial situation is much better than it was a year or two ago.

It is evident, Mr. Speaker, to anybody who reads a newspaper, that the world price of oil is not going back to $38 a barrel, which is the projection on which the government based its revenue projections. In fact, the most recent projections by American government sources, American government agencies, say that the price of oil is going to stay between $55 and $60 a barrel for the next two years. So, we can see clearly that there is plenty of money available for government projects of this nature, one that has already been planned, one that has been committed to, one that has been advised by health professionals over the last number of years.

Mr. Speaker, I hope - I have no reason to be right about this, but I hope - that it is not political considerations that are motivating members opposite on these matters. We did see some plans cancelled that were put in place by the previous government, such as the cancer clinic in Grand Falls, such as the health care facility in the Burin Peninsula, such as Alzheimer drugs, such as other decisions of a medical nature that were made by the previous government.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. HARRIS: Yes, some of them in the lead-up to the election, there is no question about that, but nevertheless extremely important and medically necessary activities that should be funded by any government, whether it is a Liberal government, whether it is a PC government, or whether it is an NDP government.

When the plans are there, when the need is there, and now we know that the money is there, these projects that are being asked for in this motion, the completion of the health facility in Grand Bank and the CT scanner that is being fundraised for, that the people of the area want to have put in place, that they are willing to put their own effort into making it possible, that they thought was in partnership with the government, is now no longer going to be made available unless this government changes its mind. I urge the government to do that, Mr. Speaker.

I want to say that we support, in the New Democratic Party, the motion brought forth by the Member for Grand Bank, wholeheartedly, and I want to thank the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair for sharing her time with me, to allow me to make these few remarks on this important motion.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I want to rise today and support the motion that has been put forward by my colleague, the Member for Grand Bank, with regard to a CT scanner for the Burin Peninsula.

Mr. Speaker, the member has, no doubt, brought this motion forward in the House of Assembly today because it is an issue of concern and an issue of priority for the people on the Burin Peninsula when it comes to health care service delivery.

Mr. Speaker, I heard a number of people today, when they got up and talked to the motion, whether in support of it or in defence of why the funding was not allocated in this year's Budget, and one of the speakers - and I am not sure who it was; I think it was the Member for Bellevue - talked about how the people on the Burin Peninsula were feeling isolated and feeling somewhat cut off from areas of the Province simply because they had not received the funding that they felt they needed to provide for the proper diagnostic equipment within their area.

I do not think that it is just the people on the Burin Peninsula who feel that way. I think there are a lot of people in rural Newfoundland and Labrador right now who do feel that way, because they have been asking for investments in their communities, whether it be in health care or whether it be in some other sector. They are not receiving the kind of investment that they had looked forward to.

I think a year ago, when government brought in a Budget that very much focused on fiscal restraint and cutting expenditure, people accepted it to a degree because they were understanding the fiscal position of the Province. Well, this year it was quite different, Mr. Speaker, quite different. Most people in the Province knew that when a budget came to the Table this year, it was coming with more health care funding, more health care transfers from the federal government than they had seen in previous years. It was coming, Mr. Speaker, only days and weeks after an Atlantic Accord deal was signed that would bring millions of dollars of new wealth into the revenues of Newfoundland and Labrador. The expectation of the public changed and the expectation of people, like those on the Burin Peninsula, like those on the West Coast of the Island, on the Northern Peninsula, in Lake Melville, it does not matter, their expectations changed because they saw the wealth of the Province increasing. They saw the government in a fiscal position to be able to look at what their needs and their concerns were and to have them addressed. So, I think for a lot of people it was a disappointment.

Now, I realize that the Budget did focus on expenditures in diagnostic equipment in some areas of the Province. The CT scanner on the Burin Peninsula was one that was a priority and did not get funded by the government. There were also other requests, Mr. Speaker. I know in Happy Valley-Goose Bay and other regions of Labrador, I met with people who were asking to have kidney dialysis equipment put in the Labrador region. I met with family members. I have talked to them who have to have their family members right now living here in St. John's. In my own district, right now, I have three people who had to move out of the area to be able to get access to services of kidney dialysis. So, I know the priority that this equipment is in different regions of the Province and the reasons that it needs to be put there. I think that these people make a very good case. We could all put ourselves in the position of many of these families. We do not want to have our loved ones leave the Burin Peninsula or leave Labrador to have to move somewhere else to access health care services. I think that the expectation of people is that you have health care services delivered as close to where people live as you possibly can.

Mr. Speaker, I think that was the reason why a lot in this Province, when the Hay Group report was released on health care in Western Newfoundland, the Northern Peninsula and Southern Labrador region, that it outraged so many people in this Province because it was very clear that the priority in health care was on fiscal spending and not on providing the best services to people. I said it well over a year ago when the Member for Topsail was the Minister of Health and Community Services at that time. She brought in the terms of reference to the House of Assembly that would outline the process for the Hay Group report. The member may remember, I said to her in this House, I said it outside of the House, that the terms of reference focuses on fiscal management in health care and not on the delivery of services to people. At the time the minister said: No, we are not creating a two-tier health care system. It will not focus on dollars and cents.

Mr. Speaker, the Hay Group report, although it did not come out in May, it came out many months later - actually in March of this year I think it was. That report indeed focused on balancing the fiscal budget within the health care system. Any people in this Province who looked at that Hay Group report and commented on it had the same take. In fact, do you know what it did? It only caused people to have more concern, more worry about the delivery of health care to their regions. We have seen rallies in St. Anthony, where over 800 people turned out to express themselves and their discontent with the recommendations in that report and asked the government opposite to dismiss the report, dismiss it, do not implement those recommendations because it will be to the detriment of health care in our regions. We did not see them dismiss that report, did we? On the West Coast of the Island it was the same thing. If you look at all the newspapers, in the Port aux Basques area where they recommended cutting things like obstetrics and day surgeries, to the Stephenville area where they looked at a complete decrease in the level of service being provided to the hospital in that region. People were very, very upset.

Mr. Speaker, I am not going to go on to quote what a lot of these people said, but they were leaders in our communities. They were mayors. They were people who were involved. They were upset. I will quote one thing, and I am actually looking for it. It was an article that was in the GEORGIAN I guess it was, the West Coast paper in Stephenville. It was a quote by the Member for Port au Port. This was only a week ago. The Member for Port au Port said, "...the past month has been a very trying one for both him and Joan Burke, Tory legislative member for St. George's-Stephenville East. He said there are 48 members in the House of Assembly and not one of the others would like to be in my shoes right now."

Well, I say to the Member for Port au Port, that he is in the governing party and if there is no one else on that side of the House who wants to be in his shoes or in the shoes of the member for Stephenville, than it is because they have made the rules, the regulations and legislated how the funding is going to be spent, where the services are going to be and they are the ones who created the situation.

Mr. Speaker, he also went on to say, the Member for Port au Port also said, "Government is considering 70 per cent of the group's recommendations." Now there were 270 recommendations in that Hay Group report. Very little -

MR. J. HODDER: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

On a point of order, the hon. the Member for Port au Port.

MR. J. HODDER: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I just came into the Chamber on time.

I would like to point out to the member, that was a misprint. I did not actually say those words but they were reported. I was referring to another report. It was an off the cuff remark at a development association meeting, but I had never known or said that government had decided on 70 per cent of anything. The board will decide themselves.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will have to check the paper this week to see if they are writing a retraction, but in the article it did say 70 per cent of the recommendations would be looked at and the quote of course was attributed to the member. He says he did not say that, so I will accept that.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, this is what he did say. He said that there was a recommendation in the report that looked at the closure of clinics and government immediately moved to say that we would not close these clinics. Believe me, there was no one happier than I was when they moved to make that announcement because they should not close clinics in this Province, in any region of the Province, whether it is on the West Coast, on the Northern Peninsula or in Southern Labrador. He stated that the reason government could overrule the boards and move immediately to dismiss the recommendation of the Hay Group to close clinics was simply because the recommendation was based only on cost-saving measures.

However, he did go on to say that they would not be able to overrule the board and move immediately to dismiss recommendations with regard to closing operating services and obstetric services at Sir Thomas Roddick Hospital because, he says, that was a quality of care issue. Well, Mr. Speaker, in my view the government has the authority to move to strike any recommendations that are in this report. They have the authority to say to the board, of the 270 recommendations that are here, we are not prepared to entertain the cutting of services in Sir Thomas Roddick Hospital or in the hospital in Port aux Basques, but, Mr. Speaker, that did not happen.

Anyway, I am going to conclude my comments because I did agree to share my time with the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi today. I am sure I will have lots of opportunity in the Budget to raise these issues.

In conclusion, I just want to say that I support the people on the Burin Peninsula and I support the member who has brought forward this motion today to have a CT scanner put in that region. I hope that the government will take this request seriously and use some of their newfound wealth to put these kinds of diagnostic equipment in areas and communities that require it.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

If the hon. member speaks now, she will close the debate.

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First, I want to thank my colleagues who have spoken in favour of the motion. I appreciate that, and I certainly want to thank the Leader of the NDP, the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, for his support as well.

I think there is a recognition, at least among some people, that this is a serious issue, one that, unfortunately, does not seem to be taken seriously by the government of the day. As I listened to my colleague from Burin-Placentia West, who I do have a lot of respect for and I know he means well, but clearly he does not have all the facts, he does not have all the information, and, unfortunately, when he speaks what he says is not right. I would encourage him, in fact, to get to know the issue a bit better and maybe to deal with it in a more knowledgeable fashion, because he has missed the point entirely. I mean, nobody is criticizing the government for the money that it has spent and wisely on diagnostic medical equipment around the Province. It was badly needed and I commend them for doing it, but just as I commend them for doing that, I really have difficulty with the fact that they did not see or attach the same importance to putting a CT Scanner on the Burin Peninsula.

The Member for Burin-Placentia West mentions, again, funding and the disastrous financial position that the government was left in, and the story is getting a little tired. People are tired of hearing it, because we know the measures they took last year to try and deal with what they considered to be a serious financial situation had to be done, some components of it but not everything. This year it is a different story. The $103 million being spent to pay off The Rooms and mortgage on a building that hasn't even been opened yet, and to, in fact, pay off mortgages, loans, that the Education Investment Corporation incurred over the years, over many, many years, does not make sense when you have a crying need for diagnostic medical equipment in a place like Burin.

Yes, I agree with the Member for Burin-Placentia West, the health care centre in Burin is the main health care facility on the Burin Peninsula. That is why I continue to support it. That is why my colleague, the Member for Bellevue, continues to support it. It is the main health care facility. That is why, when we were the government, we made sure there was a mammography unit put there, a radiography unit, a bone density machine, and I could go on and on. That is why we committed to a CT Scan for the Burin Peninsula and that it should be placed at the Burin health care centre.

When he talks about a third health care facility being built in Grand Bank, this is where I take exception to his remarks. It is not a new facility in the sense that it is putting in place something that does not presently exist. What we are talking about here is a replacement facility. In fact, a replacement facility with fewer beds than presently exist. He talked about the beds in St. Lawrence. I am as concerned about the beds in St. Lawrence as I am about a new facility for Grand Bank, which is why a part of the initiative was that we would see a reduction of beds at the health care facility in Grand Bank. It would go from sixty-some-odd down to forty with the twenty in St. Lawrence opening. It was all part and parcel of the plan. The Member for Burin-Placentia West really needs to get educated on what took place, what the situation is, and how we should be dealing with it, and then he should be supportive.

When he stands and asks me to work with him, my fear is that what he is asking me to do is join him in assuring that the Burin Peninsula loses its very identity; that, in fact, what he is asking me to do is support the government in its plan to have the people on the Burin Peninsula actually travel to Clarenville for a CT Scan. I will never do that. That is not fair to the people on the Burin Peninsula. It is not advocating good health care, quality health care, for the people who live on the Burin Peninsula. If that is what he means by working with him, I am sorry, I cannot do that. Instead, I would ask you to work with me, fight with me, speak up for our constituents on the Burin Peninsula, and ensure that we get a CT Scan at the Burin health care centre.

He knows, as well as I know, that it is important. I am sure he has had constituents tell him they do not want to have to travel to Clarenville. If he continues to go on in the vein that he is, and say the things that he is saying, and support the government in the position they are espousing, then on the Burin Peninsula we are going to see a further reduction in health care services and an increase in services in Clarenville.

I have no problems with Clarenville, the people of Clarenville and the facility in Clarenville, but I think we represent the people on the Burin Peninsula, and it is for those people we need to speak up and make the case.

I have to say that I would encourage him to, in fact, speak up, like a member of the PC District Association for Grand Bank has done. Jack Cumben - and I applaud him - has gone on record as saying, "After a reasonable period of time, if I do not get a response to my satisfaction..." - and he means that we see the new health care facility in Grand Bank continue - "...I will announce publicly my resignation as president of the Grand Bank District PC Association...".

Now, here is a gentleman who campaigned ardently for the PC government, who supported the Premier, who believed the Premier when he said that he would complete the health care facility in Grand Bank. Mr. Cumben believed wholeheartedly that the Premier would do that, and now he is saying he has doubts.

He has written to a number of Cabinet ministers, looking to them for a positive response, looking to them to pull together and support the people on the Burin Peninsula, but especially he wants the Premier to keep his commitment and build that replacement facility in Grand Bank.

In fact, in the story it says, "Mr. Cumben used the stand taken by Premier Williams in pressuring Prime Minister Paul Martin to live up to his commitments made during the federal election concerning the Atlantic Accord to make his point to the Premier."

He said, "I told Premier Williams if it was wrong for the Prime Minister to break his promise, it was equally wrong for him..." - the Premier - "... to break a promise made to the voters of the Grand Bank District during the last provincial election."

I quote Mr. Cumben. He says, "You were quick to tell the Prime Minister he was backtracking; he was not keeping his word. Now you are doing the same thing." That is from the President of the PC Association in the District of Grand Bank.

So I ask you, as a government, to take this motion seriously, just as when we were the government and a member of your party put forward a private member's motion and we supported him. As a government, we supported him because it was the right thing to do.

I am asking this government now to do the same thing, to look at the surplus you had, and instead of paying down on The Rooms in St. John's - and you are talking $43 million - instead of paying off the Education Investment Corporation, another $50 million, I am asking you to take some of that money, put the CT scanner on the Burin Peninsula, at the Burin health care centre, put some money toward completing the health care facility in Grand Bank. We will understand - it was supposed to open this coming April, a year from now, but we will understand if it is going to take an extra two or three years.

The Member for Burin-Placentia West says the government has offered the facility or the steel structure to the community. Well, to my knowledge - again I ask him, he should check his facts before speaking - the town has asked, because they do not want it torn down, which is what the government wanted to do, they have asked to take ownership rather than having it torn down, but they have had no response to the request. The Member for Burin-Placentia West really does need to know what he is talking about when he stands on his feet, because unfortunately it is misleading to get up and suggest something other than what is the truth.

The approach that we are seeing in rural Newfoundland and Labrador, especially on the Burin Peninsula, is resulting in yet another nail being put in the coffin of the people of the Burin Peninsula. We are losing our identity.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

MS FOOTE: The school board is gone, the health care board is gone, but today I am asking the government to recognize the importance of this issue to the people of the Burin Peninsula and support this motion.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Is the House ready for the question on the resolution put forward by the Member for Grand Bank?

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, ‘nay'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Nay.

AN HON. MEMBER: Division.

MR. SPEAKER: Division has been called.

Division

MR. SPEAKER: Are the Whips ready?

AN HON. MEMBER: Yes.

MR. SPEAKER: The Whips are ready.

Those in favour of the motion, please rise.

CLERK: Mr. Grimes; Mr. Parsons; Mr. Butler; Mr. Barrett; Mr. Langdon; Ms Jones; Ms Thistle; Mr. Reid; Mr. Andersen; Mr. Sweeney; Ms Foote; Mr. Joyce; Mr. Harris; Mr. Collins.

MR. SPEAKER: Those against the motion, please rise.

CLERK: Mr. Rideout; Mr. Tom Marshall; Mr. Hedderson; Mr. Jack Byrne; Mr. Fitzgerald; Ms Sheila Osborne; Mr. O'Brien; Ms Burke; Ms Whalen; Mr. Wiseman; Mr. Denine; Mr. French; Mr. Harding; Mr. Young; Mr. Hunter; Mr. Jackman; Mr. Hodder; Ms Goudie; Mr. Skinner; Mr. Oram; Ms Elizabeth Marshall; Mr. Ridgley.

Mr. Speaker, fourteen ayes and twenty-two nays.

MR. SPEAKER: I declare the motion lost.

The hon. the Acting Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I move that the House on its rising do adjourn until tomorrow at 1:30 p.m.

MR. HARRIS: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been raised by the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I wonder if my learned friend opposite can advise whether or not the letter that the Government House Leader undertook to provide to the House for the close of business has been made available and is available to the House?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Acting Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I am not aware, so I cannot advise the member.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

This being Wednesday and in accordance with Standing Order 9 the Speaker adjourns the House without the question being put.

This House now stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, at 1:30 of the clock in the afternoon.