April 16, 2008             HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS              Vol. XLVI   No. 12


The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Today we welcome representatives from the Newfoundland and Labrador Credit Union. Joining us are Chief Operating Officer, Glenn Bolger and Chief Financial Officer, Elizabeth Duff.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Today, the House of Assembly also welcomes representatives from the Canadian Federation of Students. In attendance is Katherine Giroux-Beaugard, Provincial Chairperson, and Keith Dunne, Project Organizer.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Welcome to the House of Assembly.

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: Members' statements today are from the hon. the Member for the District of Burgeo & LaPoile, the hon. the Member for the District of Mount Pearl North, the hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave, the hon. the Member for the District of Kilbride, the hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, and the hon. the Member for the District of Topsail.

I call on the hon. the Member for the District of Burgeo & LaPoile.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to recognize and congratulate the Ducats on becoming the recipients of the 2008 Stompin' Tom Award at the East Coast Music Association Award ceremony recently in Fredericton, New Brunswick.

The award is presented annually in recognition of the unsung heroes of the East Coast Music industry. The Ducats, along with their signature Newfoundland tartan vest, were a rock and roll band started in the late 1950s in Port aux Basques and throughout the 1960s, constantly toured throughout the Province, Eastern Canada and the New England area.

Although there were many changes in band members throughout the years, the originators were all from Port aux Basques and included: Lewis (Butch) Skinner, who is in the gallery today, Jim Crewe, Bob Battiste, Winston Blackmore, Joe Willis, Art Bragg, Gerald Carter and the late Roger Skinner.

Many other well-known Newfoundland musicians, of course, were part of the Ducats over the years, including Mr. Claude Caines, Joe Bolus, Billy Smith, Dave Parsons and Gord Tracey. Yours truly was made an honourary Ducat in 1995, and I had the honour of singing with them at the Mile One in 2002.

They rocked the Old Mill here in St. John's, Memorial University, and the Argentia base and the Chignic Lodge for years, to the delight of thousands, young and old.

Although the band is acknowledged as one of the first and best rock and roll bands from Eastern Canada, they hold a special place in the hearts of the people of the Port aux Basques area. They still play from time to time, and they have not lost a beat.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in extending congratulations to the Ducats on receiving this prestigious Stompin' Tom Award. Rock on Ducats!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Mount Pearl North.

MR. KENT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House today to congratulate the Frosty Festival organizing committee and the City of Mount Pearl on celebrating the twenty-sixth annual Frosty Festival this past February.

The Frosty Festival was, once again, a huge success, with most events this year selling out. Special thanks are in order to the Frosty Festival Board of Directors, the sponsors, the volunteers, as well as to City of Mount Pearl, for contributing to the Festival's success. This event has truly become an important tradition in Mount Pearl. Every year I personally look forward to attending as many of the events as I can. There is truly something for everyone in this festival. It is one of the best winter festivals in Canada. It is a great opportunity for the community to come together and it is a great celebration for our region and our Province.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join me in congratulating the Frosty Festival Committee and the City of Mount Pearl in hosting another tremendous winter carnival.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Canadian Idol alumni and Upper Island Cove native, Craig Sharpe, recently won the Ovation Star Search Contest. Since placing second in the Canadian Idol competition, Sharpe has been working hard. Finally everything is falling into place for him.

On March 28, 2008, he competed against nine other finalists throughout Canada and was selected by David Foster, and a panel of three other judges, to perform at the Crescendo Gala in Halifax.

Mr. Speaker, the event raised $1.6 million for the David Foster Foundation. The funds help families by paying for the non-medical expenses of children who need life-saving organ transplants.

Craig not only won the opportunity to perform with Lionel Richie, Natalie Cole and others, but also received a $25,000 contract with a casino to be named later.

I ask all hon. members to join me in wishing Craig Sharpe every success in the future.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Kilbride.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DINN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In this day and age, we constantly hear about inactive and overweight children. Much concern is expressed about this situation, and parents and schools are being encouraged to get their children moving.

Many of our schools in this Province have gotten this message and have responded with positive action. One such school is Hazelwood Elementary in St. John's. At Hazelwood Elementary there are many opportunities for the students to be active with regular physical education class as well as sports programs.

Basketball is a very popular program at Hazelwood. Hazelwood boasts Grade 5 and Grade 6 boys and girls basketball teams. Recently, Hazelwood Elementary hosted a Grade 5 Invitational Basketball Tournament on the weekend of February 15-17. Four teams from the surrounding schools participated with Hazelwood. Many parents and other students showed up for this event, and I am glad to say that the Hazelwood Hurricanes emerged as the Grade 5 Champions.

Members of the winning team were: Haley Ivey, Robin Collins, Kristen Gillis, Kayla Thompson, Jennifer Sandifer, McKenzie Strait, Taylor O'Donnell, Chelsea Sullivan, Faith Simpson, Brittany Hanlon, Faith Bursey and Jane Qi. The coach was Jason Thompson, and Assistant Coach Cassandra Furlong.

I ask all members of this hon. House to join me in congratulating the Grade 5 students of Hazelwood Elementary, their coaches and the school itself, for such a worthwhile event.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, it is with great pleasure that I rise in the House today and extend sincere congratulations to Claude Normore on being honoured by the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary with a twenty-five year service award. Mr. Normore is a native of L'Anse au Loup and has served as a volunteer rescuer for over twenty-five years.

These awards are presented by the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary annually to volunteer rescuers from Newfoundland and Labrador, and Mr. Normore received his award on the twenty-ninth Annual General Meeting and Awards Banquet that was held in Corner Brook this past fall.

Mr. Normore is a dedicated volunteer and has served unselfishly with the Auxiliary since becoming a member twenty-five years ago. During this time, he has served as representative for the Labrador District for twelve years, and has been responsible for assisting numerous mariners in peril.

Mr. Speaker, there are 1,000 members of the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary, and every year they respond to over 100 calls and donate some 6,000 hours in support of maritime search and rescue activities in our Province. Mr. Normore is a proud member of this organization, and his efforts are certainly appreciated and honoured.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of the House to join me in congratulating Claude Normore on receiving the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary twenty-five year service award.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Topsail

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to congratulate eighteen young authors attending Holy Family School in Paradise.

Mr. Speaker, each year, Scholastic Canada sponsors a Kids Are Authors competition. In 2007, the students of Ms Florence Power's Grade 1 class, assisted by Ms Costello, wrote and illustrated their book entitled Winter Alphabet. Scholastic Canada was thrilled to recognize the students' outstanding effort and acknowledge that Winter Alphabet was one of nine finalists out of 202 entries. Earlier this year, Winter Alphabet was published and subsequently launched in February 2008.

Mr. Speaker, the students who authored this book are as follows: Gregory Adams, Curtis Chafe, Noah Glynn, Alex King, Abbey Parker, Meghan Stone, Emma Brockerville, Haley Dunn, Andrew Hadfield, Clare Marshall, Brianna Power, Adam Whitten, Nicholas Burton, Cody Follett, Juanita Head, Stephen Martin, Ethan Rose and Rachel Hindy.

Mr. Speaker, I do have a personally autographed copy of the book with me here today, if any member would like to see it. The book is wonderfully written and beautifully illustrated by the students.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all Members of this House of Assembly to join me in congratulating the students, Ms Power and Ms Costello, on this significant and unique achievement.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am going to take a liberty here. I would like to add comments of welcome to the members of the Ducats.

While the Opposition House Leader was speaking, it certainly brought memories back of I think it was an evening in July in 1964 at Steel Mountain Lodge. I was an impressionable high school student when I was there, but I can tell you they gave new meaning to the term: The joint was rockin'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, the need for strong financial professionals within our Province is indeed growing. The Department of Finance is very pleased to announce that by working in partnership with the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Newfoundland and Labrador and the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants, the Office of the Comptroller General, Department of Finance, has been accredited as a Chartered Accountant training office.

This unique professional training opportunity was previously only available to individuals in the Province who were employed either by chartered accounting firms or by the Office of the Auditor General. The training program that has now been developed by the Office of the Comptroller General has met the rigorous standards of work experience and competency development required for this professional program and was approved by the Institute of Chartered Accountants for Newfoundland and Labrador on March 14, 2008.

Mr. Speaker, the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador is the first province in the country where the Department of Finance has received this accreditation. We are indeed very proud to be one of the leaders in providing this new opportunity to aspiring finance professionals.

Mr. Speaker, this certification represents a positive step forward for the Province's overall human resource requirements by expanding the opportunities available to train professionally designated accountants and increasing the number of university graduates to be employed in our Province.

Our Province of Newfoundland and Labrador is pleased to provide a training environment which meets the standards of the well-respected Chartered Accountants profession. In addition to the new program to train Chartered Accountants, the provincial government, as hon. members are probably aware, currently provides a training environment for Certified Management Accountants and Certified General Accountant students as well.

I would ask all members of the House to join me in congratulating the Comptroller General and the Office of the Comptroller General on becoming an accredited Chartered Accountant training office.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate the minister providing me with an advance copy of his statement.

This ranks right up there with the Minister of Business' Ministerial Statement some time ago. It is obvious that the spin doctors are gearing up again. We must be approaching a polling period a couple of weeks out. If this is the stuff that the Minister of Finance has to bring special statements to in the House, I would say we are in serious shape.

I would say there is a more pertinent question out there today rather than this, with all due respect, like: when can the people expect to see the Budget, would be a more logical question. I thought, in fact, when I opened the envelope that is what we were going to hear.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister of the advanced copy. I am glad to see this new venture within the Office of the Comptroller General. It will be a new training opportunity for young people. With this in the hands of government, it does give government an opportunity to make sure that young people from around the Province get this training because young people from around the Province study at the university.

I also, of course, encourage the government to make sure we look for equality of the students who are involved in the training as well, with regard to women as well as men. I would like to see the government put more effort into other areas with regard to training, especially with regard to apprenticeships for women in areas that have been male dominated.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, I had the pleasure last week of attending the Newfoundland and Labrador Credit Union's fiftieth anniversary celebrations. As the minister responsible for the Credit Union Deposit Guarantee Corporation, I am responsible for ensuring that credit unions are in compliance with legislation and sound business practices. The Newfoundland and Labrador Credit Union is certainly an excellent example of the success story of credit Unions in this Province.

In fifty years, the Newfoundland and Labrador Credit Union has grown to be not only the largest credit union in the Province, but also in Atlantic Canada. They have twelve branches across the Province and in eight years they have doubled their asset base to more than $343 million today. They employ 125 Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and they contribute $22 million annually to the provincial economy.

Mr. Speaker, not many people will know of the many firsts which can be attributed to the Newfoundland and Labrador Credit Union. In 1978, they were the first financial institution in this Province to have a computerized banking system. In 1988, they were the first financial institution in this Province to have a drive-thru teller service, and it was not an ATM service but an actual person. In 2005, they were the first financial institution in the country to offer an energy-efficient mortgage product for which they have received national awards.

These are the accomplishments of the Newfoundland and Labrador Credit Union. However, there are other firsts for the national credit union system too. Credit unions were the first to offer daily interest savings accounts to Canadians, ATM services, biweekly mortgage payments, online banking and, believe it or not, credit unions were the first to offer loans to women on their signature.

Mr. Speaker, the success of credit unions is that they are owned by their members. In this Province, the credit union system has thirteen credit unions with offices in forty locations, thirty of those in rural areas. The credit union system has about 51,000 members and assets in excess of $632 million. The system employs 312 people.

I know, Mr. Speaker, and you referenced them, officials from the Newfoundland and Labrador Credit Union are in the public gallery today and even though you have officially acknowledged them, I would also welcome them to our House.

I would also like to congratulate the Newfoundland and Labrador Credit Union last week on their fiftieth anniversary and I would ask all my hon. colleagues to join with me today in recognizing their significant achievement.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.


I want to thank the minister for an advanced copy of his statement, and to say that we on this side of the House also want to congratulate the Newfoundland and Labrador Credit Union on their fiftieth anniversary. Publicly, I have to apologize to them. I did respond that I would be attending but then, due to personal reasons, at the last minute I was unable to attend.

Truly, as the minister has stated, what a success story when you see all the accomplishments and the firsts that this group have achieved in our Province. They are truly to be commended. I guess, like the statement says, it is the membership that really makes the success. I also want to commend the 51,000 members who make up the Newfoundland and Labrador Credit Union and to say to them we wish them every success in the future, congratulate them on their fiftieth anniversary and to say they are to be commended, not only - they are tremendous employees when we know that 312 people throughout our Province are employed.

Once again, I congratulate them and wish them every success.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thanks to the minister for the advanced copy. I, too, am very happy to stand here and congratulate the Newfoundland and Labrador Credit Union today as well. I, too, had hoped to attend the gathering last week, but at the last minute could not. So I am very happy to stand here today and tell them how happy I am for them.

When the minister spoke about credit unions being the first to offer loans to women, it is not surprising because credit unions are committed to communities and community development. The Newfoundland and Labrador credit union has given real leadership here in this Province with regard to that commitment. They have been sort of a beacon to other credit unions as well. In the growth of that whole movement, I think they have a real role to play in.

It is the credit unions, for example, who have gone in where chartered banks have left communities. This credit union went into many, one that comes to mind is Gambo, where they went in and made sure people in that area had financial services when banks moved out. Of course, we all know the wonderful story of Eagle River. I am surprised that my colleague, the Leader of the Official Opposition, did not stand and talk about that because that is such a tremendous story of the role that credit unions play in the growth of the community, and the whole relationship with the fishing industry there is a story to be told as well.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I know I have run my time.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

Oral questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Health and Community Services.

Mr. Speaker, it is reported in today's Telegram that another pathologist has resigned from the Eastern Health Authority.

I ask the minister: Have you received any information as to why Dr. Beverley Carter has tendered her resignation, and will you provide it to the House of Assembly?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I understand that Eastern Health has received a resignation from a pathologist. As to why she may have resigned, I have no idea, Mr. Speaker, but I understand she has resigned. I want to advise members of the House, that Eastern Health has been successful in being able to have - initiated discussions with three pathologists who have expressed an interest in coming with Eastern Health. They are hopeful that in the very near future they will be able to confirm the appointments of those three individuals to be able to replace some of the individuals who have resigned over the last year or so.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, we already know there is a shortage of actually five pathologists at Eastern Health. Dr. Carter's resignation now will make that six. We are aware that they may be recruiting one person, we certainly were not aware of three.

I ask the minister, if he can provide to the House of Assembly an update on the shortages of pathologists throughout all the health boards in the Province, please?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: As I understand it, and maybe the member opposite's information is more current than mine, but as I understand it, there were four vacancies, and the most recent announcement makes five.

As I said a moment ago, there are three potential candidates that are being recruited. Eastern Health Authority is very optimistic that they will be able to conclude the discussions with those individuals and announce their appointments soon. As I understand it as well, there is one other vacancy in Eastern - I think it is in Clarenville - and there is another vacancy, I am not sure if it is in Central or Western, but there is one other in either Western or Central.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Just to let the minister know, the information I quoted to him I received within the last two hours from Eastern Health.

Mr. Speaker, it is time for government to recognize that this is a growing problem and not lambaste the people who are reporting the information, like we saw last week in the media. Last year, Dr. Maung completed a review of the issues facing pathologists in our Province.

I ask the minister: When is government going to act on this report and address the issues of recruitment and retention before we start seeing more vacancies?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. Leader of the Opposition is referring to a comment I made last week when I appeared before the media.

I expressed a concern generally, I think, which the media might have taken personally at the time, but it was not intended to be that way, that headlines that talk about pathologists and pathologist recruitment do affect health care in the Province, just as the inquiry and just as this whole matter which is the subject of the inquiry does affect recruitment. It makes it more difficult.

So, in trying to deal with the inquiry, that is why it is so important that we strike this delicate balance with allowing the inquiry to its business without politicizing what is going on; because we as a government still have to run the government and still have to try and provide the best health care that we can to the people of this Province.

When pathologists and specialists are sitting back in clear conscience and looking at this and seeing general criticism rolling out, then I think they are going to second-guess whether Newfoundland and Labrador is going to be a good place for them to practice their specialty.

A word of caution just generally, that this is a very delicate matter and that we handle it very delicately on an ongoing basis, because I think the referral was to a comment I made last week.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

That was not a response to my question.

I guess my next question would be: Has government taken the time to actually meet with these pathologists, to find out what the core of these issues is and how they can be improved or fixed?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I received a letter today from the Newfoundland and Labrador Medical Association. I received it just around lunchtime, actually. It was a lengthy letter indicating this trouble that physicians are having as a result of this. I am just going to read a paragraph to you which I think is important: Physicians, especially pathologists and oncologists, are not immune to the same emotional trauma and anguish that has cast its shadow over the affected patients, their families and the public at large. Ironically, they have been restrained from expressing the kind of remorse and sympathy that they would normally be inclined to offer all their patients because of the legal uncertainties that loom ahead.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: There is a growing frustration that the picture has been painted unfairly.

They have actually requested, at the end of this letter, a meeting with me, and myself and the minister will most definitely be meeting with them.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think, in light of the situation, it is more than past due time for government to seriously address the problem.

Mr. Speaker, we know that the workload of pathologists at the lab has increased by 29 per cent from 1999 to 2005. We also know that one of the recommendations was to establish a second lab at Memorial Hospital in Corner Brook.

I ask if government is prepared to establish that laboratory.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, one of the recommendations in that report that she refers to deals with compensation. You might recall, Mr. Speaker, in this House last spring I announced – I think it was around the middle of May – that government had announced an increase in the stipend paid to pathologists, to bring them more competitive with other jurisdictions in the country, I say, Mr. Speaker. That was one of the first steps we took last year, and that has been in place almost a year now.

With respect to the recommendation of the second laboratory in the Western Region to conduct ER-PR tests, at this particular point in time, until the Commission of Inquiry is through and we have an understanding through that process of what may have happened with ER-PR testing at Eastern Health during the period 1997 to 2005 – but, more importantly, one of the other questions we asked the inquiry to answer was: Is the current method of testing at Eastern Health a reflection of current best practices? - until we get an understanding of what we are now doing with the one and only lab that conducts ER-PR tests, we are not prepared to start thinking about the second location.

When we get that commission's report, then we will turn our minds to the question at hand.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I need to remind the minister that the $50,000 to $60,000 that he talks about barely put Newfoundland and Labrador on par with the rest of Atlantic Canada, and I think he knows that, and this is in an occupational area where we have seen a 32 per cent turnover in the number of pathologists taking those positions in the last four years.

Mr. Speaker, Eastern Health have confirmed that Dr. Beverley Carter is the only pathologist specializing in breast cancer at that hospital. Noting the professional void that will now be left at Eastern Health, come June, I ask the minister: What plans does he have to meet with Eastern Health to ensure that any delays in diagnoses and wait lists for cancer patients is offset?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, that discussion is taking place as we speak, actually.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My first question is for the Minister of Justice.

Minister, it was reported in the media, The Independent, actually, on April 4, that you had in fact received a report which you had commissioned last fall into certain deficiencies which might or might not exist in the justice system with regard to how quick trials proceed and so on. The report indicated that you, in fact, had a report dealing with that. I am just wondering: When might we expect to have that report released publicly?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I can indicate to the Opposition House Leader that we do, in fact, have that report, that I have reviewed the same, that there are certain practical, budgetary and legislative issues that we have to look at.

For the information of the Opposition House Leader, it is a very good report and I expect you will be able to see it early next week.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My next question is for the Minister of Education.

On March 29, the Telegram broke a story about a series of engineering reports that had been done on two St. John's schools, namely Bishops College and Holy Heart of Mary. The story indicated that, although the school boards had made decisions based upon those reports some four months ago, the reports still have not been released.

I ask the Minister of Education: When might we expect to see these reports released?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, we recently received the final drafts of this report. They are finalized and I expect we will probably be releasing them in the next week or so.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My next question is for the Minister Responsible for the Workplace Health, Safety and Compensation Commission.

Everybody in the Province is familiar with certain frustrations that have been felt by clients with the Workplace Health, Safety and Compensation Commission. In fact, government, in response to that, commissioned a report looking into client service issues back in May 2007. I understand the report was received, actually, in May 2007 - it had been commissioned before that – and that report has been in the department's hands now some 335 days. I am wondering if the minister can tell us when it is likely to be released publicly.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Mr. Speaker, the report that the hon. member refers to is not a report that was commissioned by me or by this government. It was an internal document that the commission itself is using. I have not seen the report myself, but I understand that the commission management have used the report and are making some changes to their system based upon that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Just as a follow-up to that, can the minister undertake to see that the report is made public? Can it be made public?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Mr. Speaker, I will undertake to ascertain the contents of that report and have it tabled here in the House of Assembly, yes.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My next question is for the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

On November 22, 2007, the media broke a story about certain reports done by that department concerning the future use of the Colonial Building. The report itself, apparently, cost $200,000 and it has still not been released by government.

I ask the minister: When can we expect to see that report released?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Indeed, the report is in its final stage. Second to that, and very much a part of, is federal funding. We are awaiting confirmation from the federal government as to whether they are going to support that project, and I anticipate that will be announced rather shortly - I mean, the overall report.

MR. PARSONS: (Inaudible).

MR. JACKMAN: That is what I just said. The report overall is in the stage of completion and will be submitted rather shortly.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My next question is for the Minister of Health and Community Services.

Minister, in January 2007 outside consultants completed and submitted a report to government which examined and provided recommendations on issues related to workplace issues for pathologists. I understand that report has been in your hands for 435 days. I also understand that it is in the hands of the commission as an exhibit but it has not been released publicly. When can we expect to see that report?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: I can table it in the House tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you.

My next question is again for the Minister of Health and Community Services.

Minister, in your testimony at the Cameron Inquiry you mentioned that upon taking office you were not able to get around to reading your notes for four months in, and one of the reasons you gave is that you were busy reviewing a report of an organizational review of Child, Youth and Family Services. This report has never been released publicly. I am wondering when we might expect to see this report released.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: We can release that one, as well, tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My final question is for the Premier.

Premier, I have just asked five different ministers of your government about reports that are sitting in their offices, ranging up as much as fifteen months, and have not been released.

You yourself, Premier, said on March 3 that you would have government ministers search and find out whatever was sitting around in terms of reports; because there was a commitment

made, first of all back in 2003, in terms of openness and accountability, that reports would be released within thirty days. It did not say that they would be called drafts. It did not say that they would have to be actioned, or action plans done on them, but that the reports would be released within thirty days. Right here today we see six examples of reports that have not been released; and, again, it has been forty-five days since you made that statement that they would be released.

Can you tell us what you are going to do? You make a commitment that you were going to do it in 2003, you made a commitment on March 3, and yet we have six examples in front of us where your ministers have not followed through.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: That is just simply not correct, Mr. Speaker.

The hon. member opposite never ceases to amaze me. The Minister of Finance got up today and did a Ministerial Statement basically indicating that we had been accredited as a Chartered Accountant training office. In that statement the minister said, "…this certification represents a positive step…."

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the Premier if he would not read from statements during Question Period, if he would refer to them, paraphrase them.

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance basically said it was a positive step forward for the Province's overall human resource requirements by expanding opportunities available to train professionals and basically employ students.

You stood up and said that this was absolute nonsense, that it does not matter, that we should not get graduates to come to the government to work. We should not train people. We should not cease out-migration. We should not encourage people to come to work for the government. You had better get your priorities straight.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, earlier this session I asked some questions about the School for the Deaf, and today I have some further questions on that topic.

The skills and training for teachers of children who are deaf and hard of hearing is very different from the training of other students. In the past, teachers were required to have a degree in deaf education to teach those students.

I ask the minister: Does she fully understand the impact that her push towards mainstreaming is having on deaf students in this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I want to be perfectly clear that we do not push students towards mainstreaming. Mainstreaming is a goal that everyone has a right to. Everyone has a right to go to their community school and to receive the supports that they need.

Mr. Speaker, for many years hard of hearing or deaf students had to be segregated into another school because they learn differently - they learn from American Sign Language - but, Mr. Speaker, there have been many advances in technology. There are cochlear implants that students never had before, there are FM systems that they never had before, and that enables a student to be able to participate fully in the mainstream classroom in their community.

Mr. Speaker, there are still a number of students who attend the Newfoundland School for the Deaf, and we are committed to making sure these students receive the appropriate education and also have the ability to integrate into the main school system.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the member to conclude her answer.

MS BURKE: Well, Mr. Speaker, I hope there is a subsequent question, because I really want to make sure that the people of Newfoundland and Labrador understand the importance of this.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, I am fully aware that the students have the opportunity, I guess, to go to whatever schools they want to go to, but the correspondence that we have received from students who attend Gonzaga High School - one of them was told that they were there and they could not go back to the School for the Deaf, and they left this Province and went to a hearing school in Ontario.

I ask the minister: Have any recent studies or reports been given to the department related to the education of deaf and hard of hearing students in this Province, and, if so, will she release this information to the public?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, there is an ongoing piece of work within the department that is not finalized, as we look at how we serve best the students who are deaf or hard of hearing in the Province.

Mr. Speaker, let me be perfectly clear. The students who are attending Gonzaga leave the School for the Deaf, and go to Gonzaga five days a week for a half day. At the school, in Gonzaga, we have two ASL teachers who also go to the school, we have three educational interpreters who also assist at the school, and for the first time ever in this Province, this year, we have transcription that happens instantly.

There is one student doing a Physics program, as the teacher speaks it is transmitted to Calgary and comes right back to the laptop on that student's desk. So we are providing every support we can to make sure these students have access to the courses they need, and at the same time, have the ability to integrate and feel part of the larger community as well.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to say to the minister that the questions I am putting forward are coming from students who attend Gonzaga, and if she would only read their e-mails that were sent to her, like are sent to us, she would answer properly.

Rather than looking at the education of deaf students from a cost-savings point of view, I ask the minister: Will she look at how services, such as vocational education, can be expanded for deaf and hard of hearing students in this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, let me talk about the cost of educating students in Newfoundland and Labrador and, particularly, hard of hearing or deaf students. We have eighteen students enrolled at the School for the Deaf. We provide mainstreaming services at Gonzaga. For these eighteen students we have ten teachers, we have a principal, a guidance counsellor and an audiologist. That school, Mr. Speaker, was built for 200 students. We maintain it right now for eighteen students. In addition to that, Mr. Speaker, we also continue to have the residence open, and that residence was built for 120 students and now has seven in it. We have also increased funding so that the students who attend the School for the Deaf are able to go home every single weekend, so that they can spend the weekends with their families and parents in their communities.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, students are telling us that government is deliberately pushing students into mainstreaming so that eventually the numbers of students will be so low that they will have no option but to close the school.

I ask the minister: Is this yet another case of this government putting political damage control ahead of public involvement?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, as I said, we have eighteen students at the School for the Deaf and we are absolutely committed to their education, but what is really important here is that every student in this Province has a right to be educated in their community schools, close to their families, and we have a commitment to provide the services that they need.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, to say that we deliberately asked children and students to stay with their parents and in their homes? They have a right to that, Mr. Speaker, and we have a right to make sure that we can accommodate students, whether it is through FM students, whether it is through ASL teachers or whether it is through its FM systems. Mr. Speaker, as the Minister of Education, I will never force a five year old starting Kindergarten to leave their parents and leave their home and have to travel and spend from Monday to Friday in St. John's.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, all I can say is, I sure hope not, what she just made there.

Mr. Speaker, this minister has a record of avoiding meeting people who have concerns about what is happening to the education system. She refuses to meet with them and does not respond to their questions.

I ask the minister: Why is she not responding to correspondence which she received from students at the School for the Deaf that has been sent to her?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I can assure you that every piece of correspondence that is directed to me, as the Minister of Education, comes to me first before anyone assists or drafts any reply to it. Every single piece of correspondence is logged, it comes to me and I make sure that there is a response. If it has not been timely, we will make sure that it is. But, Mr. Speaker, I can assure you that every piece of correspondence - and I regularly review the correspondence logged to make sure that I have replied to each and every piece of correspondence, and I will continue to do so.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Natural Resources.

Last week the Nunatsiavut Government voted for a three year ban on uranium mining. The minister, in an April 14 press release, gave a backhanded critique of their vote by saying that her government is, and I quote: Confident in our approach to managing uranium development.

Mr. Speaker, could the minister outline for us the rules and standards that have been protecting people, communities and the environment around uranium mining for the past twenty years that she is so confident about in her press release?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, last week I acknowledged that the Nunatsiavut Government's decision to put a moratorium on uranium development in their land claim areas was entirely within their jurisdiction and a decision that we respected, and that is so.

In terms of our own regulation, we are very confident, and I am happy to provide a copy of the regulations to the Leader of the NDP. She is more than welcome to them. We base our regulations on standards that were developed in Saskatchewan who has a long history of uranium development and one of the safest records in the world. So, we are very confident. We recognize, as I said, Nunatsiavut's right to do what it did but we also have a right to make decisions on our lands and we have done so, and we stand by that, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Mr. Speaker, statistics from the Ontario Cancer Treatment and Research Foundation reveal that residents of Elliott Lake, Ontario, experienced very high incidents of colorectal cancer among females and of lung cancer among men and women. The study also found higher infant mortality rates and childhood leukemia than in other areas.

Mr. Speaker, are these the kinds of facts that are giving this government confidence in its approach to uranium mining?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As I said, our standards are not based on what is done in Ontario. They are based on the standards that are practiced in Saskatchewan, which has one of the best safety records for uranium mining in the world, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that Ontario and Saskatchewan are different. However, the facts about cancer related illnesses apply wherever uranium mining happens.

In a February 2008 letter to the Ontario government, the Ontario College of Family Physicians Environmental Health Committee indicates reason to have concern regarding cancer causing affects of radon gas and other decay products released into air and water bodies because of exploratory drilling and mining of uranium.

Mr. Speaker, since the government is so keen on promoting uranium mining. Will this government strike a committee to examine the potential negative effects of uranium mining in this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

These matters are extremely important to all provinces, the industry, and governments who have uranium mining going on in their jurisdiction. We keep a close eye on the research. We follow the standards, we follow the regulations, we follow the health information and we set the bar very high in this Province.


Mr. Speaker, I am happy to share whatever information that the Leader of the NDP wants. I can stand here saying very strongly and very clearly that we are very satisfied with the regulations that we operate under and we have sufficient evidence to satisfy us that the standards are very high and safety is a major concern.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. MICHAEL: Mr. Speaker, yesterday the all-party committee of the Nova Scotia Legislature upheld the governments ban on uranium mining.

Will this government strike a committee that will at least look at whether it is possible to mine other minerals without disturbing uranium deposits?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, I have to say as minister of this department and responsible for mining activity in this Province, as I have gone about my work in the last two years I have received accolades from every part of the industry, every agency that is involved in this kind of work, to say that this government has extremely high standards. It is one of the best and safest places in this country to do this kind of business.


We monitor what is going on in this industry all the time. We strive to have the highest standards. We will work with the Nunatsiavut government. We share all our information with them. We will continue to do that, but the health and safety of the people of this Province is of primary importance to us and we will do nothing to endanger that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier.

We have heard testimony at the Cameron Inquiry that the Board of Eastern Health was kept out of the loop as it related to faulty hormone receptor testing. As a matter of fact, I think Joan Dawe basically stated that the board was irrelevant with respect to this issue.

I ask the Premier: If the health care boards are supposed to govern the activities of the Health Care Corporation, why are they not functional and making decisions on such important matters?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, the Cameron Inquiry is hearing a lot of evidence from a lot of people. At the end of the day, they will make a ruling about a number of things, I suspect, and make some comment on a number of aspects of the testimony that they heard.

Clearly, the testimony that the member opposite is referring to is a board chair who said that information did not come to the board. As the Minister of Health and Community Services I will tell this House today, and I will tell the people of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, that it is inappropriate for any senior executive management team to withhold pertinent, crucial information from the health authority, the trustees that actually have recruited them and put them in place to carry out that function of running the day to day operations, I say, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order please!

The time allotted for questions and answers has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Notices of Motion.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

 

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is Private Members' Day, I think as everybody is aware. We have to move to Motion 1, standing in the name of my colleague, the Member for Kilbride.

Private Members' Day

MR. SPEAKER: Order please!

The hon. the Opposition House Leader, on a point of order.

MR. PARSONS: Yes, just for clarification purposes.

I have not had an opportunity to discuss this with the Government House Leader, but I just noticed - and maybe it is symantical, I am not sure, but in the first WHEREAS clause in the motion that is going to be heard today, the resolution, it talks about: "WHEREAS many graduate students in this Province" and then the whole thing is based upon graduate students. I am just assuming that it means all students who graduate, because there is obviously a distinction between - I am assuming the resolution would not just apply to graduate students, it would apply to all students who have graduated. The resolution is not clear. If we are going to be sending this around the country to other Legislatures, I just want to clarify it.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order. It is a point of clarification.

I call on the Government House Leader for his indulgence.

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate the point raised by my friend opposite. The person who moved the motion and ourselves have noticed that particular wording. What we mean is post-secondary students and I believe the mover of the motion is going to indicate that right off the top when he begins his remarks.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Kilbride.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DINN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, that was the first thing that I had intended to do. Actually, when I was preparing this motion I had a discussion with some people - I won't say who they were - but I am an old dog to whom it is hard to teach new tricks, and sometimes we get these preconceived ideas in our heads that we know everything and when other people explain something to you, you don't listen to it.

I guess, through my educated life, I always looked at the term graduate as someone who was finished school. After researching and looking at some of the information from the Canadian Federation of Students, I guess I admit I was wrong. My first intention today was to change that word graduate to post-secondary student.

I will read my motion starting off and then I will go into the few words that I have to say.

WHEREAS many post-secondary students in this Province, and in the whole country, are currently experiencing severe financial difficulty because of high student loan debt; and

WHEREAS many of these post-secondary students had no other alternative but to accumulate debt in order to fund their education; and

WHEREAS many of these post-secondary students will have their lives put on hold while they pay off this debt; and

WHEREAS this Provincial Government in its 2007 budget reduced the interest rate on the provincial portion of student loans to prime, offered needs-based grants and held the line on tuition;

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that this House of Assembly calls upon the Federal Government to also reduce the interest rate on its portion of student loans to prime; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this House of Assembly ask the other provinces and territories to support this action by passing a similar motion in their respective legislatures.

Mr. Speaker, I move this motion and it is seconded by my Colleague from the District of Lewisporte.

Mr. Speaker, I do not know how many of us are aware of it, but in this Province alone there are over 40,000 post-secondary students who have accumulated student debt. Now I use the number 40,000 or over 40,000 because I cannot really get a true handle on it, but some of the information that I did see used the number 40,000. Now if you want to get an idea about how many that is, you are talking about the population of Mount Pearl and CBS combined. That is how many young people in this Province going to school have debt accumulated. In the country as a whole you are talking hundreds of thousands of young people who are in debt because of education costs.

Last spring our caucus met with representatives, the provincial representatives from the Canadian Federation of Students, and this group expressed severe concern about the rising cost of education and the levels of debt that students were starting to accumulate because of trying to get their education. They also expressed concern and desires that this government hold the line on tuition fees, try to do something to keep tuition fees from going up last year, this year and in future years.

Mr. Speaker, before I became an MHA I encountered many former students, people that I knew personally, who had gone to University and had accumulated high student debts. I remember running across young teachers especially, some telling me that they owed $50,000 after getting their education. Some of them were in the $25,000 range and some of these owed well above the average of $27,000 which is basically what the MUN student loan average debt is.

Last spring I was in my office one day and I received a call from a young lady from my district. This young lady wanted to come in and speak to me about the financial mess she was in. Now this young lady is probably one of the extreme cases that you get when you are talking about student debt. She came to see me the next day, we sat down and had a chat and she told me the story that she wanted to reveal. She wanted, after she got out of high school, to go get an environmental science degree. Mr. Speaker, in order to get this environmental science degree she had to attend the Corner Brook campus. She was from the St. John's area. She had absolutely no help from anybody else, so she proceeded to do a four-year course in Corner Brook. All her expenses had to be paid by student loans.

This young girl got her degree, came back to St. John's, and could not get a good job with her degree. She decided then to go do a water treatment course at one of our local colleges, and this she did. Again, she used student loans to pay for this college course. She came out of that college and got a very good job. Actually, the job that she got pays her today over $40,000. Yet this young girl, after five years of education, after accumulating a debt of over $60,000, in spite of the fact that she is making over $40,000 a year has not got a cent. She is basically broke after she gets paid. She has to pay over $600 a month for student loans. She has to have a car in order to get back and forth to work, so she has to pay a car lease. She is not living with her parents. She has her own apartment and she has to pay for that. She has all the other costs of living, heat and light and gasoline expenses. She has insurance expenses and telephone costs. All-in-all, when it is all said and done, this girl has absolutely very little other disposable income.

The saddest part of her story is that she applied for interest relief and could not qualify because she makes too much money. Another sad part of her story is that this young girl regrets ever having gone to university and accumulating $60,000 in debt. She wishes she had done, like some of her friends had done, that she had gone to work when she got out of high school, spent two years working and then went to school and got sponsored by an EI program or something else. She feels she would have been in the workforce earlier and out making money, rather than having the debt that she has today.

Today she owes, like I said, $60,000. She has fifteen years ahead of her to pay off this debt. When she is finished, she will pay off the principle of the loan, plus $72,000 in interest. This was last year. She told me in May before we made any changes ourselves. After I spoke to this young lady, I wrote our minister in Ottawa. I relayed her story to him and I asked if he could get his government to try to do the same kind of thing that we had done here in the Province. He wrote her back, he wrote me back and I had expected in the federal budget in March that they would bring down some kind of interest relief program for students. It did not happen. I think they brought in some grant program or something like that but they did not bring in anything else.

Now, I am sure all the MHAs in this House could relate stories similar to what I am saying. You have all heard stories of people who have high student loan debt.

High student debt is having a great impact on individuals and society as a whole. According to the Canadian Federation of Students union information - these people have done a lot of studies on this. They have made briefs to different levels of government, they have spoken to all kinds of politicians and they have come up with many conclusions, one of which is that high student debt causes over 25 per cent of students to quite post-secondary school after they register. They go to a school, they do a year or they do two years and then they quit. High student debt causes 27 per cent of registered students to interrupt their studies. Some of them sign up for a university course, do a year or two years and then they have to come out and go to work so they can get some money to continue their education.

High student debt also negatively influences the debt rating of former students. Somebody who graduates from school, comes out with a high student debt, they have difficulty sometimes financing any investments they might want to make. Some of them might want to buy a new car. For some of them, I guess, having a new house would be a pipe dream at best. High student debt makes it difficult for some to even get the basic needs of life. As a matter of fact, according to the Canadian Federation of Students, a lot of these people live at home, have to stay at home because they cannot afford to go out and get their own apartments or their own homes.

High student debt causes stress and regret. It has an impact on the number of high school students who want to go on and do post-secondary education. Some, I guess, who are given a bit of advice, find out that we may not do this at all, we can go somewhere else and go to work. I guess something that we are all aware of, is that high student debt causes post-secondary students to leave this Province to find high paying jobs so they can meet their debt load and also live.

There are experts in this field. Many experts say that there are three things that governments can do to tackle the problem with rising education costs and high student debt accumulation. One of them is to provide a better grant system. A second thing to do is to hold the line on tuition fees; keep tuition fees frozen. Keep them at a certain level that they are at now, and even lower them if you could. A third thing is to provide better repayment plans, especially ones that have lower interest rates.

I, myself, feel that student loans should not be treated the same way as mortgages. When you read and hear some of the stories that students have about their student debt repayment plans, you realize that they are being treated the very same way as somebody who has probably a mortgage. I think that is not a good way to treat young people starting out in life.

I mentioned the three things that experts say we can do. In the 2007 provincial Budget our government did all three of these things. The Canadian Federation of Students, especially our local group, were very pleased with the actions that we took. As a matter of fact, I have been talking to some of these people and they were pleased that, after making representation to this provincial government, they were able to get some of the things that they wanted.

I now call upon the federal government to also reduce the interest rates on their 60 per cent share of student loans and bring it down to prime, as we have done. This will allow post-secondary students to pay off their debts faster and with less interest. Over the life of a loan, students will be able to save on the interest costs and pay their loans off a lot quicker.

Mr. Speaker, I will give you an example of what I am talking about. The average Memorial University student, or the average Memorial University graduate, debt is $27,000. If both levels of government had a prime rate of interest, the post-secondary student would save $3,900 in interest over the life of that loan, and pay it off fourteen months sooner. If you apply this scenario to the young lady I referred to in my district who has a loan which is probably two-and-a-half times that amount, that would mean that she, over the life of her loan, would save about $10,000 or more in interest and she would also pay off her loan probably nearly three years faster.

The Canadian Federation of Students is not looking - from my reading from them - for free education, even though they would love to have it. Everybody would love to have free education. I think these young people understand the reality that we are living in. This Province is now turning the corner, we are becoming better off financially, but I do not think these people think that we can be everything for everybody. They do not expect, either, that we will write off all the loans that are on the books. I do not think anyone thinks that is possible - that would cost a lot of money – but I think they would love for somebody to go and reduce the interest rates, give them better repayment arrangements.

Mr. Speaker, I will ask all hon. Members of this House of Assembly to take the politics out of this issue. We are dealing with a very, very serious issue that affects a lot of young people in our country. Take the politics out of the issue and join the Canadian Federation of Students in their campaign to keep the cost of education down and help students with their debt load.

I would advise everybody, or encourage you, to write your MPs, write the other MHAs in the other provinces and territories, and ask them to help us apply pressure on the federal government. Maybe all of us working together might be able to make this an election issue in the federal election that is upcoming pretty soon. I think it is probably an issue that is as important as any that you could have.

I thank anybody who might want to support this motion. I think all of us would.

Mr. Speaker, I thank you and I will close debate when the time comes.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Before the Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave, the Chair needs some direction here and some guidance from the hon. member who has brought forward the written text of the motion.

The hon. member stood and agreed to make some changes, and if the Chair understands them right he will repeat them because it can only be done in one of two ways. It can be done by bringing forward an amendment because the text is written, the motion is what it is, or it can be done by leave of the House.

The Chair would like to repeat the WHEREASes and see if that is exactly where the hon. member had intended.

WHEREAS many post-secondary students in this Province – and let's move down to the other WHEREAS:

WHEREAS many of these post-secondary students - and the third WHEREAS would be:

WHEREAS many of these post-secondary students.

Would that be what the hon. member had intended?

I call on the hon. Member for Kilbride.

MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, that is exactly what I intended, and I ask the House to give me leave to change that.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Does the hon. member have leave to change the text in the editorial of his amendment?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Yes.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member is granted leave.

The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I just want to say a few words with regard to the private member's motion put forward by the Member for Kilbride.

I have to say, when I look at the first WHEREAS, that students are currently experiencing severe financial difficulty because of high student loan debt, I am sure each and every one of us could stand here today and relate incidents in our own districts where many of our students find themselves having a high student loan debt. I know many times I hear from constituents who find themselves in that position, and some of them, unfortunately, after they graduate, are unable to find employment in the appropriate time frame and many of them are placed with a collection agency. I guess I could stay here all day and tell various stories about individuals who were placed in that position.

I remember, back a few years ago, one individual who found themselves in that position and it almost came to the point where the individual, who was living with his mother, the collection agency was even trying to put foreclosure on the house so they could pay off the debt of the individual.

The second WHEREAS, they have no alternative but to accumulate debt in order to fund their education. Many of our young people in the Province, unfortunately, are not in a financial position where they can go and take whatever trade they want. They find themselves in a difficult position where their parents are unable to assist them, and they have no other alternative but to get student loans.

I have to comment on the part of the provincial government, in its 2007 Budget - I note, Mr. Speaker, some $14.4 million was put in to bring the rate down to 2.5 per cent, to prime. That means a lot to many of our students in this Province.

I notice from some correspondence I saw that, for instance, it drops a current amount from $3,514 down to $2,193, and it demonstrates a tremendous involvement of our young people to know that they are in the position where they can see savings, but we have to look further than that.

I notice through the Auditor General's report, and I just want to touch on, the Debt Reduction Grant program. Unfortunately, there were many students who availed of the debt reduction but many of them fell by the wayside because they were not aware of how they had to apply, they were not aware that they could apply, but through the jigs and reels of it, I have to say, 2,644 of them did receive a debt reduction; however, there were 389 applications that were not assessed. Hopefully, at the end of the day - no doubt, that has probably already been dealt with and we take it from there.

The other thing is, many of the individuals go and take various trades and find, when they graduate, that they are unable to find work, not only here in our Province, but some of them are unable to find it in other jurisdictions. Many of them do go away and find good jobs, but some of them end up in lower paying jobs and they find it very difficult to pay back the loans that they so honestly took on and hoped that they would be able to do.

I noticed also through the Auditor General's report that the student loan repayment performance – I know the minister mentioned the other day that a lot of this has been dealt with; however, there are cases where people are taking trades and so on and are unable to find work in their chosen field, and they end up with a tremendous workload, Mr. Speaker.

I know the hon. Member for Kilbride mentioned that the main issue here is to help keep the interest down so that students will not be burdened as much as they are.

I wish to put forward an amendment to the resolution, Mr. Speaker, moved by myself, the Member for Port de Grave, and seconded by the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, that the resolution be amended by deleting the fifth paragraph and substituting the following:

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that this House of Assembly calls upon the federal and provincial governments to eliminate the interest charged on student loans that are in good standing.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair has not had a chance to see the amendment as put forward by the hon. member. I understand that the Table Officers have it.

The House will take a brief recess while it looks at the amendment as put forward by the hon. Member for the District of Port de Grave.

This House is now in recess.

Recess

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair has had an opportunity to review the amendment as put forward by the hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

The amendment reads: That the resolution be amended by deleting the fifth paragraph and substituting the following: Therefore be it resolved that this House of Assembly calls upon the federal and provincial governments to eliminate the interest charged on student loans that are in good standing.

The Chair deems this amendment to be in order.

The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, it is certainly my pleasure to be able to speak today regarding the issues facing post-secondary students because, as a Province and as a government, we want to make sure that post-secondary education is accessible in Newfoundland and Labrador. By being accessible, we mean being affordable so that students who come up through our high school system, or people who have finished the high school system and want to go back to school are able to access the educational system, the public system we have here in Newfoundland and Labrador. Mr. Speaker, we have certainly been committed to these issues as a government in the last four years, and we will continue to do so.

One of the aspects here in Newfoundland and Labrador that makes it an opportunity to work and work together is the leadership that we see from our student bodies in this Province, from our post-secondary institutions. We have the Canadian Federation of Students and we have the MUN Students' Union, we have the College of the North Atlantic Students' Union, we have the Graduate Students' Union, we have the Marine Institute Students' Union, and we certainly have forged a very positive relationship. Any time there has been a request for a meeting with the student leadership, we have certainly accommodated that meeting. It is a very useful meeting where we are able to share information, but we certainly get a very grounded response from the students. We know exactly where they stand on issues and what they would like to see achieved in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, a testament to the leadership from this Province and the positive working relationship that we have with our student unions certainly was illustrated last year when the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador was asked to be the guest speaker at the Canadian Federation of Students annual general meeting in Ottawa. He received a number of rousing standing ovations during his talk to the students. That is very much indicative of being asked to be the guest speaker, indicative of the relationship and the strides that we have made in this Province, and certainly of the leadership being shown by our Premier.

There certainly have been challenges and there will continue to be challenges but, Mr. Speaker, we have been committed to work with post-secondary institutions and our students to try to bring about some resolution to the challenges that we face.

Since this government took office in the fall of 2003, we have increased funding to our post-secondary institutions by $121 million. Mr. Speaker, that is a significant increase in funding that flows to our institutions. When we have increased funding to our institutions, one thing that we are able to accomplish is that we have doubled the capacity at the College of the North Atlantic in the skilled trades. Mr. Speaker, we often speak about how important it is and the labour shortage we are facing in this Province, and the need that we will have as a Province as we move into our mega projects for the skilled trades. We have been able to double the capacity in this Province, and I think that is extremely important.

Some other comments I want to make on the whole skilled trades and the apprenticeship is we see it as an issue. We have been addressing it from a number of fronts, whether increasing apprenticeship opportunities within the government boards and agencies, or certainly the partnership that we have with the IBEW to make sure that we increase the number of females into the field of electronics and electricians and make sure they have opportunities to be apprentices. Since we have looked at our numbers, we have seen an 18 per cent increase in the number of apprentices in this Province and we have seen a 14 per cent increase in the number of people who are receiving their certificates as apprentices. So, we have certainly been seeing some increases.

Since 2004, we have also seen a 35 per cent increase in females who are registered in the apprenticeship programs. We have been putting quite an emphasis on apprenticeship and females. When you think that we have had an increase of 35 per cent, that is really significant. When you join that to what we are doing with the skilled trades in our high school program, it is certainly something that we are proud of. But, in saying that, I will acknowledge there is a lot of work to be done in that area and we will continue to address that area.

As a government, in our last mandate, and again for this four-year mandate, we have frozen tuition in Newfoundland and Labrador. I think by doing that as a Province we have become leaders across the country as to being able to acknowledge what is important.

Mr. Speaker, I will acknowledge that we hear requests for no tuition and free tuition. I think that is something that would be great to do in this Province, but we are not in a position to do that. We are not going to go out and make foolhardy promises that we cannot keep or that are not sustainable but what we did commit to was a tuition freeze for the last four years and into the next four years, and I just want to speak to what that means here in Newfoundland and Labrador.

In Newfoundland and Labrador our students pay $2,633 for tuition. What they pay in Prince Edward Island is $4,440; in Nova Scotia, $5,878; New Brunswick $5,733. Mr. Speaker, I can go right across Canada but the pattern you will see is that Newfoundland and Labrador is significantly lower than the other provinces; with the exception of Quebec, where it is $2,025, but for Quebec residents only. So our students would not be able to benefit from the program in Quebec.

So, we have made that commitment, and, Mr. Speaker, as we move through this particular mandate and we come to the school year of 2011-2012 we will have invested in this tuition freeze $56 million.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, that is a direct investment into the pockets of our post-secondary students because that is money the government is subsidizing back to our post-secondary institutions that will not be coming from our students.

Mr. Speaker, the other thing that is significant, I think when we look at the student debt, is the fact that since 1999 the number of students in our post-secondary system relying on student loans has decreased by 50 per cent. In the school year 1999-2000, we had 18,166 students receiving student loans. Last year, Mr. Speaker, we had 8,933 students. So, we can look at this and we can say: Well, you know, it is because of declining population, declining student enrolment and therefore declining numbers. But our numbers of enrolment do not reflect the 50 per cent reduction that we are seeing in the number of students relying on student loans.

Mr. Speaker, last year Memorial had a decrease of enrolment by 1.5 per cent, which certainly does not reflect the 50 per cent decrease in student loans. At that time, there were still 17,849 students at Memorial University. What is also significant is that the enrolment at the College of the North Atlantic increased by 3.8 per cent, and last year the College had 6,674 students. So, I would think there has been some emphasis on the skilled trades. We have doubled the capacity in the skilled trades so therefore we are seeing increased enrolment at the College of the North Atlantic. Although there was some decrease at Memorial University, certainly 1.5 per cent would not reflect the 50 per cent less students relying on student loans.

I want to speak a little bit about the debt that students incur. I have to speak in averages because, of course, every student has a unique situation and there are going to be variances no matter what number we use.

In 2006-2007, Mr. Speaker, the average debt for somebody graduating from a five-year program at Memorial University was $27,114. I asked to have that number broken down between what our rural students would pay and what our urban students would, or how much debt would be incurred. That came down that a rural student's debt load on average would be $30,271 compared to an urban student at $27,114. That was the average student loan for rural versus urban.

Then, Mr. Speaker, I wanted to look at, with our initiatives of the upfront needs-based grant and the interest relief that we have applied, what does this actually mean to the students who are receiving the student loans. What is means is the rural student at $30,217 would actually have to borrow less because the grant would be provided which would be $4,843. or 40 per cent of their student loan would be taken off because of our upfront needs-based grant. For a student from the St. John's area, for an urban student whose average loan was $27,114, when we applied the upfront needs-based grant that loan would be reduced by $2,820 or a 26 per cent reduction. Then, from the $30,271 that goes down to $25,428, and the urban student loan from $27,114 down to $24,294. When we add the interest relief onto that there is an additional $1,561 coming off that student loan.

Mr. Speaker, we have certainly brought in initiatives that I feel have significantly reduced the amount of student debt in a very meaningful way. We met with the student leadership and we discussed ways that we could address the student debt issue, and the students were very firm in what they wanted. We had different proposals on the table that we wanted to talk about and we did. I certainly want to commend the students last March, not this March past but March, 2007 when we met and discussed this issue. They were very concerned and very adamant that they felt upfront needs-based grants was the way that they wanted to address student debt.

There were grants available that were eliminated, I think, probably in the mid-1990s, so the students form the mid-1990s up until last year probably carried the highest student debt load that they would ever have. With our upfront needs-based grants we have certainly been able to address that. In addition to that, we also have maintained the debt reduction program and have decreased interest rates. So, we have certainly taken a number of initiatives to make sure we are addressing the issues facing the students.

Mr. Speaker, the amendment here today calls on government to eliminate the interest on loans in good standing and to ask all provinces and the federal government to do that.

One thing that we have certainly tried to do as we work with the post-secondary students is, we have tried to be realistic. We have not offered and talked about initiatives that we will never be able to cover or that are unrealistic.

Mr. Speaker, at this point in time I think it is fair to say, if we can ask every other province and the federal government to put their interest rates to prime, I think that would be a significant step in the right direction that I think would be supported by the student membership.

Right now, when we look at the federal rate on student loans, the floating rate is prime plus 2.5 per cent for students who do not lock in. Right now with prime being 5.25 per cent that is actually 7.75 per cent. For the students who do lock in, it is prime plus 5 per cent and that would now be on their federal portion, 10.25 per cent, when the portion that they are paying back to Newfoundland and Labrador is at prime.

I think it is realistic for us to continue to work with the post-secondary students to maintain our freeze on tuition which we are committed to, to work with our post-secondary institutions to make sure we have strategic investments that address the concerns in our post-secondary institutions, and to continue to work to make sure we have the appropriate number of skilled trades seats in this Province. We need to continue to make sure that we try to attract women into courses that are considered nontraditional for females so that they can participate fully in our growing economy. Mr. Speaker, I think it is very important right now that we ask the federal government and provincial governments to follow suit to what is happening here in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Because of our incentives to date, we have seen an increase in enrollment in Memorial. Although I said there is 1.5 per cent decrease, we have seen an increase based on the number of graduates coming out of Grade XII versus the number of people entering our university system. That is based on the fact that I think we have what I consider the lowest tuition in Canada outside Quebec, which is for Quebec residents only. Because of that, we are attracting students from other provinces and in particular from Nova Scotia.

I was listening to the media the other day and they were highlighting the number of students from Nova Scotia and the fact that they have a Nova Scotia club at Memorial University. I think that speaks loud and clear, that our initiatives are not just being recognized and acknowledged here in this Province but certainly through the other provinces as well.

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased that the motion we have before us certainly recognizes the work that this Province does and challenges the other provinces and the federal government to come forward and address these issues. As we look at that, certainly my concern is with the federal government to make sure that if we can lobby them and approach them and ask them to do what we have done with the student loans, if we have seen reductions based on bringing interest back to prime, when you look at the fact that the federal government provides 60 per cent of the student loan there is certainly more savings than that to our students.

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to be here today to speak to these issues and to be very supportive of these initiatives as we work towards making post-secondary education realistic in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, when we deal with students and issues of post-secondary education and how we can support students, there are many ways that can be done and it is not just necessarily through addressing student debt, it is also being able to provide opportunity.

Today, the hon. Minister of Finance spoke and he talked about how the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador was the first government in Canada that is now recognized to be able to train chartered accountants in this country. Because we have done that, we have opened a door of opportunity that young professionals who want to train as chartered accountants have more opportunity in this Province and they are able to stay right here in Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: What really surprised me, Mr. Speaker, was when the Opposition House Leader spoke and responded to this today, that he thought it was foolishness and that he thought there was more important business of government.

I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, to the young people of this Province, providing opportunity that they can stay home and they can certainly practise their profession and train in this Province is extremely important, and in no way do I dismiss the interest and the support that we can provide to expand training in Newfoundland and Labrador. I think that to suggest otherwise is a slap in the face of the students of this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Any time that we can expand training or opportunities or address the needs to make sure that we provide the opportunities that our students need right here in Newfoundland and Labrador and our young professionals, I am very supportive of that process.

Mr. Speaker, with that, I would just like to conclude that I certainly feel that we have made tremendous strides in addressing the needs of young people and post-secondary students in this Province. I would really like to see the other provinces and the federal government follow suit.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER (T. Osborne): The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I do not know why I am having problems with my speech today, but I seem to be tripping over my tongue about three or four times, so let's see if I can get that to stop.

I am very happy to stand here this afternoon and have the opportunity to speak to this resolution and to the amendment.

I think it is very important that we stand together as the three parties in this House in showing the students, the post-secondary students in our Province, our young people, how much we care about them and how much we care about their staying in this Province. I think that is what this is all about, it is all about our students becoming educated, having an education that they can afford and being able to stay in this Province and then work based on the degrees or the diplomas that they have received. It is so important that we stand here today in solidarity to show them that we really do care about them and we care about their future and we care about our own future, because they are that future.

There are some points I would like to make. Obviously, the points that have already been made by my two colleagues I very much agree with, but there are some other things I would like to talk about. I would like to talk about why it is so necessary that we do what we are doing here this afternoon in terms of who are the young people we are doing it for. For some of my statistics I am turning to the document of the Canadian Federation of Students that they prepared for their submission to the Department of Finance this year, so it is the stats that they have. We all know how excellent they are with regard to the statistics that they use and everything that they have is top quality. I am very happy to be able to use their resource because I consider what they presented to the minister to be a resource for all of us.

What is important in this report that strikes me, one of the issues that strikes me, is that the young people who have the highest debt and the young people who most are in debt are the children of lower income families. One of the statistics that I want to read is that 52 per cent of full-time post-secondary students aged eighteen to twenty-four whose parents earn less than $40,000 received a loan from CSLP in 2000. That is a tremendous number of those students. That means that the students of lower income parents are the students who need the loans, and then those low income students themselves are saddled with a debt. When we look at a comparison, only 14 per cent of students whose parents earned more than $80,000 received a public loan. Now, that really tells us something. In addition, more women students received CSLP loans than did their male counterparts, 34 per cent versus 29 per cent.

I spell this out because this is why we should be doing what we are doing here this afternoon. What we are interested in are the students who do not have the resources. That is why they are ending up with the heavy debts that they are ending up with, and they do not have resources because, even from the first step that they take going on in their education, their parents do not have adequate resources. So, we have to do everything in our power to assure that the young people who are the ones who are most disadvantaged can have a full education like everybody else, and they can do it without building on their shoulders this heavy debt that has been talked about here this afternoon.

There is one more statistic around this that I would like to quote, and then go on from there. When we talk about low-income families – and when we talk low income we are talking way below $40,000 – only 3 per cent of students from low-income families living beyond commuting distance participated in university. That fits. They do not have the resources to leave home, to go to where university is. I would imagine that the percentage would be much less when it comes to going to college, because we have college campuses more accessible, but the university campuses are only in two places, so many more students would have to commute to university than would have to commute to college.

So, why are we here today? We are here to make life better for these students we are talking about. I think our goal should be for all students: no debt; that we should be trying to work to a point where we have free education in our Province. This is not an anomaly in the world. Many places have free education, and I think this should be our ultimate goal. What we should be looking at here this afternoon is: What is our final goal down the road?

I even see the amendment that has been brought forward as a goal-oriented amendment. Nothing can be done overnight – we all know that – but if we could agree that this is the reason that we are here this afternoon, to have no debt on the shoulders of young people when they graduate, if we could do that, then we would really be doing something for them.

Now, we know that with those who already have debts, and I will talk about them first, it would be difficult to do total forgiveness – but it may not be, and that is what we would have to look at. I think that there are cases where there should be total forgiveness, and I think all of those – that needs to happen. We need to look at students who should have total forgiveness of debt. In the meantime, we do have the problem of interest on debts that exist. I just think it is absolutely wrong that students should have to pay interest on debts. It is bad enough that they have the debt, but why should we - and I will say we because it is the general coffers - why should we benefit from them by charging them an interest rate? I think it is wrong. I think we should be working towards - as long as we have loans, we should be working towards no debt.

Yes, the government did come down to prime, and that was excellent, but let's move now. If we are going to show leadership in the country, let's stay ahead of the rest. Let's put out to them what we are doing, and let us stay ahead and then maybe they will catch up with us. So, let's not just say we have gone to prime and that we just want to get them to do a similar thing. We are not even saying go to prime, we are saying BE IT RESOLVED that this House of Assembly calls upon the federal government to also reduce the interest rate on its portion of student loans – oh, it does, it says to prime.

Okay, we have done that already. So, when we get them to do it then we should be ready to go less than that. We should be ready to stay in the driver's seat and work us towards a point where there is no interest rate for those who have loans. Then, along with that, of course, we need to be working towards the point where there do not have to be loans at all, because I think the call for needs-based grants across the board is where we should be going, and that we should not have students who carry any debt with regard to their education.

I am just thinking for a minute, Mr. Speaker. I do not think that we are doing anything that people do not want in this Province, by the way, when we do this. There was a Decima poll that was carried out on behalf of the CFS, and some of the results of that poll are very interesting. For example, 58 per cent of the people surveyed strongly agreed that – I have my two papers mixed up - strongly agreed that we should ultimately have free education, that we should not have tuitions. Another 25 per cent said they somewhat agreed. So we have, you know, 83 per cent of the people surveyed saying that tuition should be free.

This is extremely important that, in moving towards free education for our students - and for me that does not mean just free tuition; it means an education that will not require even any loans - in moving towards that, we are doing what the people of the Province want. We are doing what the parents of these young people want. We are doing what these young people want. We are doing what the guardians of these young people want. We are not doing something strange. We are not doing something that the people of the Province will say: Are they crazy in the House of Assembly, thinking that we can have free education, thinking that we do not have to have debts with regard to post-secondary education?

No, in actual fact, if we go in this direction - and I would love to think that we will go in this direction - we are following the lead of what the people want, and surely that is what we should be doing here.

I agree with the government that it has, in many ways, been listening to the Canadian Federation of Students, that it has been trying to respond to what the students are saying. It is interesting, it is doing that, but the students are still beyond what we are asking. The students are still beyond what we are giving them. We are taking steps, the government is taking steps, towards what the students want, but they are still way out there in what they are looking for, so they are doing what I think we should be doing with the rest of Canada. They are giving the lead; the government is trying to respond to them and take steps towards what they want. If we do the same thing with the rest of Canada and we keeping following the students, maybe we will all get to the same place together some day where students in this country, not just in this Province but in this country, have free education, just like students in Ireland have free education, like students in some Scandinavian countries have free education. This is what we should be aiming at.

For me, yes, I will vote for the amendment because I believe in the spirit of that amendment. I will want us to move towards a common goal of no debt, that our students will be absolutely debt free. I believe we should be moving, as I said, towards having a complete needs-based grants program for students who need assistance, and not have any loans. Of course, with regard to our tuition, I am very glad it is still frozen but I think our goal should be elimination of tuition.

Mr. Speaker, as I said, I am very pleased that I had the opportunity to stand this afternoon and speak to this issue, and I look forward to voting for the amended resolution.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to rise today, as well, to speak in support of my colleague from Kilbride and his motion on student debt.

There are a number of points that I would like to make. First of all, I would like to respond partly to the Leader of the NDP, a couple of comments. I think we would all agree that working towards no debt, Mr. Speaker, is certainly an ultimate goal. One of the things that we do try and do on this side of the House though is be realistic, and we have to make decisions that help us live within the means. While, certainly, everybody would like to be there, we are not in a position as a government to make promises we cannot keep, and I do not think anybody wants us to do that.

The other piece I would like to speak to is the comment around leadership and staying ahead of the pack. I think, Mr. Speaker, for the information of the House - that the minister has shared many times - we are, right now, offering the lowest tuition rate in Canada, outside of Quebec; which is for Quebec residents only. I think that point needs to be made.

I am going to touch on a couple of points, Mr. Speaker, to sort of support the motion and go in a little different direction than the minister did. Some of it may overlap, but a couple of points that I think are very important to this motion with respect to education in the bigger picture in the Province. As I reflect upon the numerous debates we have had here and the numerous speakers, certainly this side of the House recognizes the importance of education in the global sense, both for the social development of the Province and what it does for the self-confidence of individuals. It helps to build stronger families, stronger communities, and helps individuals have the confidence that they need to move forward and harness their potential.

I think we also recognize, Mr. Speaker, the impact that education has on the economic development and economic potential for the Province. Historically, in our Province, Mr. Speaker, we have been resource based, where many individuals have been employed in resource driven economies; the fishery, the forestry. As everybody, I think, are aware, that has certainly been changing very much in the last number of years. Certainly, perhaps more than ever, not only is education critical for our students and our young people, but it is also equally important that we not lose sight of the many individuals who are displaced and affected by the changing economy that we have and the many people who are older and outside of the K-12 system and need to retrain and re-educate themselves.

We often talk about, many times, our youth being the future leaders. There is no question about that, they are going to be our future fisherpersons and forestry workers, and doctors, and politicians, and municipal leaders, but equally so, we have to remember those who are a little older and a little more experienced, and are having to retrain and re-educate themselves.

Certainly, it is my belief that the government, over the past number of years, have made some very, very positive decisions, very progressive and very concrete decisions with respect to the education budget. As the Finance Minister knows, we spent in excessive of $1 billion on the current year's education budget.

I want to touch on a couple of things that I think are relevant to the discussion, Mr. Speaker, because if we are going to talk about education and talk about student debt, I think it is important that we talk about the big picture of commitment to education and what this government has done and what we are continuing to do.

I am going to touch on some K-12 issues for a few moments; none the least of which is important is the elimination of school fees. As I listened to some members opposite talk about the poor and the needy, I do not think anybody in this House has the monopoly on caring and feeling for those individuals. If there is one move we have made in education that certainly supports people in those situations, it has been the elimination of school fees and consumable fees, and the elimination of cost for textbooks at the Grade 10 to 12 levels. Mr. Speaker, I might add, there is no small price tag on both of those items. The elimination of school fees was an investment of $6.3 million by this government, and the creation of free textbooks was at a cost of $12.8 million to the Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: I am going to touch on a couple of other pieces, Mr. Speaker, that have been important to me in my previous life and important to many, many communities throughout the Province. One is an investment, perhaps a small investment, of $100,000 but it is government's support of the community use of schools and the purchase of liability insurance.

As many members, I am sure, are aware, it has caused increased havoc and headaches for school boards and for community individuals who have been volunteering in schools. Up until, perhaps the last year-and-a-half or so with the heightened focus on accidents and liability, school boards essentially have had to take a position where requiring insurance - communities, such as those in my district where groups of five and six students are being led by an adult, had to purchase liability insurance. This government made the decision to purchase liability insurance, which now eliminates all of those hassles and allows people in to use our school facilities.

Two big pieces I want to touch on as well, Mr. Speaker, that I think are very important and demonstrates this government's commitment to education. One of which was the review of the ISSP Pathway process; in short, the delivery of special services to individuals in our Province, in our school system. The second was the review of the teacher allocation formula and, ultimately, the adoption of a new model that is based on the programming needs and class size of schools in this Province. Both of those come with a hefty price tag, Mr. Speaker, I am sure, and I am sure that the Finance Minister will remind all of us on Budget Day what the cost is, but it is important to highlight that in both of those documents they are based solely on the needs of students in our system. Both documents contain recommendations that this government will implement, which will mean improved delivery of educational services and improved options and opportunities for students in this Province in education.

I also want to highlight a number of initiatives that we have invested in on the curriculum and program side. Specifically, Mr. Speaker, $3.2 million has been invested in physical education equipment as part our strategy to encourage more activity in schools and encourage more activity amongst our students. That has not gone unnoticed I can assure you of that. Likewise, we have put $3.85 million into upgrading of our lab equipment and lab safety throughout the Province. Of course, one of the more recent announcements by the minister was $11.3 million for the Excellence in Mathematics strategy. Which will encompass, essentially, looking at the basic math skills and math concepts, and I think acknowledges, Mr. Speaker, that our government has been listening to professionals in the field, we have been listening to parents and we are listening to the advice of experts who have written their report and advised us on that.

As well, of much significance in the education system has been our investment in construction and maintenance. In addition to the investments we have made, not only in new school construction, Mr. Speaker, and large capital projects, it is important to note that this government brought back the operating grants for school boards and schools from fifty-five cents that was reduced by a previous government back in the 1990s - from fifty-five cents back to ninety-two cents a square foot, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: We have also, Mr. Speaker, in public education we have invested in libraries to expand the hours of operation in forty-two libraries. We have invested in distance education throughout the Province. Right now, we are offering distance education courses at 103 schools, Mr. Speaker, to ensure that students in our rural schools and our smaller schools have access to the programs that they need to open whatever doors need to be opened at the post-secondary level for them once they finish Grade 12 education.

As well, Mr. Speaker, this government partnered and invested $5 million in a Broadband Internet initiative to bring Internet access to previously unserviced schools and areas throughout the Province.

With respect to school safety, Mr. Speaker, it is also important to note that we have invested, not only in human resources through behavioural support specialists, but we have invested heavily in a safe and caring schools policy intended to make sure that our school environments are as safe and protective as possible for students who are attending school. Mr. Speaker, to offer support at the local level government has set up a special projects initiative and fund where local schools are able to apply for projects that are certainly specific to their particular school. The intent is to assist them in bringing in initiatives that promote the whole idea of safe and caring schools and make their schools ultimately safer for them to attend.

The other issue I would like to touch on, Mr. Speaker, is the Cultural Connections strategy. That is a $10 million strategy that we have invested in as a government to support our students and to encourage them to take advantage of educational opportunities. There is an investment there, Mr. Speaker, not only in human resources but in new curriculum materials and enrichment opportunities for our students, the purchase of music equipment, the support of arts and music festivals and a number of programs, two of which I will name, Mr. Speaker, the Visiting Artist Program where we provide support for artists to visit schools throughout the Province and of course the School Tutoring Program.

The last one I would like to touch on very quickly is the Skilled Trades Program, Mr. Speaker, throughout the Province. We have brought in now - as of I think today sixty-five sites in the Province have been piloted with the new high school skilled trades curriculum and the average is between 75,000 and 80,000 per site that we have invested in equipment and renovations to ensure students in those sites have access to quality skilled trades programs. Certainly, Mr. Speaker, I think that is an important initiative and demonstrates our support for education in the Province.

A few concluding comments that are a little broader, Mr. Speaker: I think all of us on this side of the House certainly recognize the importance of education. As I said at the outset, we certainly encourage all of our citizens, students who are in K to 12 and those who are outside of the school system currently but entertaining a career change or needing to move in a different direction in their life, we certainly support education and we encourage all of our citizens to pursue the highest level of education they can possibly attain.

The future in the Province, Mr. Speaker: We have talked many times about the numerous projects that are in the offing, things like Hebron Ben Nevis, the possibility of a second oil refinery in the Burin Peninsula region, the district I represent, and the potential for the JSS project for the Marystown Shipyard. All of those certainly highlight tremendous potential for the Province. They also, Mr. Speaker, highlight the tremendous need for skilled trades workers to fill the jobs that will come with that.

Not only that, though, Mr. Speaker, not only do we need qualified individuals who are trained and ready to go on these projects but we have other occupations in the Province, specialists, medical doctors, nurses, nurse practitioners, specialized teachers in education and so on, where there is certainly a need for individuals to step up, get the qualifications and fill the positions.

With that in mind, Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt about it that the issue of student debt is of great significance, one that, in some instances, may in fact deter individuals from pursuing their dreams and furthering their education at the post-secondary level. I think all of us recognize, as members of the government, that it is important for us to do all that we possibly can to support these individuals who are trying to get ahead and to make education as affordable as possible. Certainly, we cannot afford to fail our students and we have to do all we can to open doors for them.

Having spent many years in university myself, both at the post-graduate level and undergraduate level, I can certainly relate to the issues that student debt brings with attending university education. I think it is also fair, Mr. Speaker, that if we do not strive to get the highest level of education that we possibly can success is going to be virtually impossible for all of us, both individuals in the Province and families and the Province as a whole.

I might add, Mr. Speaker, I was away for two days this week, on behalf of our minister, attending a literacy conference in New Brunswick. The whole focus of the conference was about the need for us to have a more literate society. One of the things that we saw at this conference was that there was unanimity amongst all ministers of education across the country. In this particular site, it was the gathering of the Atlantic Provinces. Certainly, the belief is we have to strive to make sure all of our citizens are better educated and better able to participate with their families and to be a positive contributor to the development of not only Atlantic Canada, but of our particular Province. That view certainly is shared.

Mr. Speaker, with that in mind, I think it is important, as a government, that we remove as many impediments as we possibly can to student debt so that students do not see pursuing post-secondary education and higher education with a view that the debt that they will incur becomes an impediment to doing what they would like to do with their life. With that in mind, I am very pleased to speak in support of this motion.

As I have said, in a number of ways throughout my comments, no longer is education a nice thing to have, it is something that we have to strive for. If individuals are going to succeed, if families are going to succeed and if our Province is going to succeed, we all have to work together and strive to become as educated as we possibly can and be prepared for the future.

With that in mind, I am very pleased to speak in favour of the motion brought forward by the hon. the Member for Kilbride.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I certainly want to rise and contribute to the debate today with regard to the motion that has been put forward by the Member for Kilbride. I am sure, Mr. Speaker, in the member bringing forward this motion he certainly had good intentions and the intentions of students at heart when he did so. But, Mr. Speaker, I really have to question in terms of what it means. In my opinion, when I look at a motion like this it has very little substance in terms of what the real contribution is going to be to reducing the debt that is incurred by students in our Province today.

Mr. Speaker, it is very quick to offer the federal government to anti up in terms of reducing some interest rates but it does not take the provincial government's commitment anywhere beyond where it is today. I have some problems with that because I think that at a time when we run surplus budgets in the Province, and we recognize in the form of motions like this that there is a serious problem facing students, then the provincial government itself should be offering up something more substantial as a means of being able to counteract the amount of debt and indebtedness that these students incur.

Mr. Speaker, I had a good look at the motion that has been introduced in the House today and while it does, I guess, to a very small extent help reduce some of the burden to students in terms of interest costs from the federal governments side of it, again it offers up little or no contributions from the provincial government on a go forward basis.

Mr. Speaker, I think that is where the member fell short in terms of calling on the feds to do something but failing to act or offer up further contributions, or further, I guess, incentives to be able to offset the amount of indebtedness or debt that students are in.

Mr. Speaker, we proposed an amendment today and I think it is a very fair amendment, in fact. Mr. Speaker, it is an amendment that says that we call upon the House of Assembly: THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the House of Assembly call upon the federal and provincial governments to eliminate the interest charged on student loans that are in good standing.

What that means, Mr. Speaker, is that students not pay the 5.2 per cent or 2.5 per cent, I think, which is the prime rate today that is going for interest rates, but in fact, Mr. Speaker, they pay no interest as long as they are in good standing, as long as they are not delinquent in their repayment plan to the Canadian Student Loan Association. That was the reason we proposed the amendment.

In fact, it was only over the weekend that I had met with a group of students to talk about some student issues. Actually, on Sunday afternoon a couple of these students raised this particular issue with me. When I asked them what they saw as being some of the things that they would like to see done in terms of being able to curb the amount of debt that students face, one of those things was to eliminate the interest on student debt. So, Mr. Speaker, I think it is a commonly discussed initiative that is out there with students in the Province.

Notwithstanding that fact, it was actually in the last election that we put forward, as part of our platform, a commitment to examine an interest-free loan system that ensured that students were responsible for repaying principal payments but not in excess of interest charges. That was a commitment that we made as a party in the last election. I am somewhat disappointed that the members opposite are not prepared to adopt that policy, because it is a good policy and one that would, in fact, cost this Province very little.

When the member made his opening statements today, one of the things he said was that he did not want this to become political. He asked that people put their politics aside today and that they support this motion. Well, I ask the member the same thing now, to put his politics aside and to support the amendment that is on the table, because that is an amendment that will give students a real break on the amounts of money that they are repaying, not the motion that he proposed but the amendment that we proposed. If you want to make it non-political and you want to take the politics out of it and do something for these students, I will ask you all to stand today and vote to eliminate the provincial interest that is being charged on student loans, to do that; make that contribution to the students in our Province.

The Member for Grand Bank, when he talked, talked about what we can afford. Well, maybe I should let the Member for Grand Bank know that we did do some research into what this would cost the Province. Let me remind him that it is going to cost very little in the bigger picture of things. In fact, if you look at the fact that there were 20,000 new loan certificates issued in the Province in the year 2005-2006, that was the number of new students entering post-secondary education, they received new loans in the amount of $31.8 million. The repayment on those student loans, in the interest repayment on those student loans, was around $6 million. That is what the interest repayment was on those loans.

In fact, if you took the full loan base and you combined the amount of interest that is going on new loans, besides the amount of interest that is being carried on the loans while students are in school, you are looking at probably somewhere between $10 million and $12 million is what the cost would be to the Province if they were to implement this on behalf of students in the Province.

The Member for Grand Bank thought it was going to be a major fiscal investment to be able to do this. Well, I will just let the member know that it is not; and, if he crunches his numbers, he will find out that in the larger scheme of things it is a very small investment in students in this Province, Mr. Speaker.

So, if you want to look at it in the context of a surplus budget of well over a billion dollars, and at the same time providing something to students, which would be provincially interest-free loans in this Province, it could be done at a cost of probably about $10 million or $12 million to the provincial government. So, I say to the Member for Kilbride and the Member for Grand Bank, who I am sure have lots of students in their districts, that is what they should be pushing for at their caucus table. They should be pushing for their government to introduce that program in the Province, because that program will be the one that will see real savings in the pockets of students in our Province.

Mr. Speaker, we cannot ignore the fact that there are many students in this Province who are currently in debt and in poverty because of the debt that they carry from their education. Mr. Speaker, that is unfair, especially unfair at a time in our history when we can do much better, when we can do much, much better in terms of the investments that we are making into these young people.

I talk to students, Mr. Speaker, who are becoming educated in Newfoundland and Labrador but are going away to work in the Artic and in Alberta and in Ontario and in the United States simply because they can make more money. In fact, on Sunday, one of those students said to me: I would not have to be leaving this Province if I could get some help with my student debt. That is the reason I have to leave, because I have a huge debt that is going to take me the next six or eight years to pay off. Therefore, I have to go where I can make the most money to be able to do that.

Well, this is an opportunity to give something back, to encourage them to stay and work in this Province. That is exactly what it is. We are asking you to implement something that will allow them to cut back on their debt, to be able to work in the Province for a lesser wage, to be able to haul themselves up out of the student debt they have incurred from being educated, to be able to go on to be contributing citizens on a higher financial level in the future. That is what we are asking. It is very simple and it is affordable, very much affordable.

Mr. Speaker, I think if we want to show real commitment to the students of this Province – and we should because, as you know, as our students become educated, as they become debt free, they become much more powerful in their perspective and in their objectives within the Province. They are the people who are going to make this Province more powerful, more economically viable and more cutting edge. That is what they will give back to us. They will give back to us their level of intellect and intelligence, their skills and their abilities, to make us a powerful Province within Canada, one that is on the cutting edge of every single industry and every single facet of society. We cannot have that as long they are exiting in droves. We need to be able to keep them here, keep them in our own Province so that they can contribute - not only contribute financially, Mr. Speaker, but contribute from a point of knowledge, from a point of skills – contribute to the vast growing economies that we have throughout Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, if you want to make a real path for these students, do so in a substantial way. Don't just call upon the federal government to reduce the interest rate on the loan, the federal interest portion, by 2 per cent, but rather put your own money where your mouth is. Put your own money where your mouth is, and make a real significant contribution and wipe out the interest rates from the provincial side on all student loans in this Province, and allow these students to be able to have some real savings on their debt.

Yet, there is some reluctance on the other side to do this, but it is not unheard of in government programs. We know, right now, that there are government programs being provided to businesses that are interest free, that are interest-free loans, at least for a period of time. In fact, Mr. Speaker, both levels of government provide loans to businesses and corporations where they do not have to pay interest, at least for a specific period of time.

One of the programs that government announced recently, the provincial government, was the Shellfish Aquaculture Working Fund, a capital fund, which I think has some interest relief on it for a period of time, for repayment of that loan. We know that the provincial government buys equity shares in businesses all the time, equity shares and equity investments that do not have to be paid back unless that company or corporation earns a certain profit. If they earn a certain profit then they can pay a percentage of that money back to the provincial government; but, if they do not, Mr. Speaker, they do not have to pay it back.

We can do that for businesses, and do it for corporations – you are doing it, as a government - but you are reluctant to have interest-free loans for students. What is the difference? What is the difference between providing the interest-free loans and programs to businesses and corporations than it is to providing them to students? So, there is a question the member might want to answer when he stands to close his debate today.

The federal government does the same thing. We only have to go down the road here to New Gower Street or Duckworth Street to see where the ACOA offices are, to find out that through ACOA businesses in this Province can get loans that are interest free for up to three years, and this is not $10,000, $20,000 or $50,000 loans. These are loans that are up in the $400,000, $500,000 or $600,000 figures. They are getting interest-free loans for up to three years for these companies, so why aren't we asking the federal government to be doing that for the students in this country, for the students in this Province? There is no reason why we should not. We should not be lowering our expectations because they are just students and not big companies or corporations.

Mr. Speaker, there are lots of examples of where both the government opposite and the federal government currently provides interest-free loans to people in this Province. Students just happen to not be in that category. All we are saying is that we want students to be added. We think that people who are going to school, getting an education in Newfoundland and Labrador today, especially those who want to stay at home and work, that they should be given a break on their interest rates. We are saying that it can be done. It is not a big price tagged item. It will cost a few million dollars, probably $10 million or $12 million for the government to implement that, but in my mind, that is not a huge investment to make in the future of the students in this Province.

I certainly hope that the members opposite will take the advice of the Member for Kilbride today and not make this political or partisan but rather rise and support the amendment. Show your real support for the students in this Province. Show your real support for reducing the debt that they are currently saddled with, Mr. Speaker, and eliminate the interest that they are getting, not by 1 per cent or 2 per cent, eliminate the interest that are on these loans that are accumulating over a long period of time. That is what needs to happen here. That is what they are being saddled with. That is what is not allowing them to start their families, buy their houses, get their first vehicles, and all these kinds of things in the Province. It is because of the debt that they are being saddled with, and I think that needs to be addressed.

Government is in a position right now with surplus budgets of well over $1 billion this year. They have so much money over there the Minister of Finance cannot bring down a budget. He does not know how to spend it all.

So, Mr. Speaker, this is just one of the things he can put on his list and one of the things that the government members opposite may want to look at.

MR. SPEAKER: Order please!

MS JONES: I can tell you that I will be voting for the amendment today, Mr. Speaker, because it does provide benefits for students in this Province.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Kilbride.

If the member speaks now he will close debate.

MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, I sat with interest listening to the hon. opposite leader over there and I guess in a perfect world it would be great to do what she is suggesting there. She is suggesting that we drop the interest on loans that are in good standing, drop it entirely. Now maybe we could go a little bit further. You are only going part of the ways. Maybe we should go a little bit further. Maybe we should give them free education. Maybe, while they are in school, we will give all students a salary. We will buy them a car. Maybe we will give them expense accounts. It would be great to have. It would be great to do all the things you are talking about but we have to live in a framework of a budget. We have to be cognizant of the fact that we have to look ahead and make sure that measures we bring in now have to be sustainable in years to come. You cannot just simply say you have a surplus. Let's do everything for everybody. It is not possible.

This government cannot be accused of sitting on its behind and doing nothing in the last number of years for education. After many years of neglect this government has had to spend a lot of money in other areas of education. We had to spend millions of dollars fixing up schools and buildings, doing repairs, doing a lot of things that were not done for years. Maybe if we had all this money that is going to address neglect, maybe we could do a little bit more, but we have to be realistic. I am sure that the students who we represent, the unions that are here today, or one of the unions, and other student unions that the Department of Education keep in contact, I am sure they are not here sitting down expecting us to do everything the one time. These people realize that there is only so much you can do.

Last year, in this Budget, we brought in initiatives. Those initiatives are going to cost this Province $56 million in the next four years. That is not small.

MS BURKE: (Inaudible).

MR. DINN: That is just tuition fees, the Minister of Education says. That is a lot of money. We have taken steps. We will continue to do what we can for the education system, especially post-secondary. To trivialize this motion, to say that we should do it all, is really politicizing it as far as I am concerned.

I sat here last week and listened to a motion that you people made about bargaining. I do not think you endeared yourself too greatly to some of the unions that were out there. I do not think any of them were too impressed. This motion is not going to do everything for students, but at least it is going to give them a little bit of help. They do not expect, I am sure, to get it all the one time, but as time goes on, keeping in mind that we have to be watchful over our finances and remember what we do today has to be carried on in years to come or else we are going to have to cut programs.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) prudent.

MR. DINN: Right, we have to be prudent. We have to be sensible.

I am not going to spend too much more time, but I would ask that we look at this amendment that is being made and realize that this amendment might be grand in a perfect world, but we have to think of the financial implications. We have to think about, can we afford this? You cannot look for the whole loaf right away.

First of all, I want to thank all of my colleagues here for your support because I know we will support this motion. I ask you to join with the Canadian Federation of Students and contact the other provinces and the other territories and anyone else you can contact and let's put pressure on to see if we can get the federal government to make a move on the interest rates on student loans.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, I thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the amendment as put forward to the motion?

All those in favour, 'aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Nay.

Carried.

On motion, amendment adopted.

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order.

Stand up please. Can we have a standing vote please, Mr. Speaker?

MS JONES: (Inaudible) on the amendment?

MR. RIDEOUT: On the amendment, yes.

Division on the amendment, Mr. Speaker, please.

Division

MR. SPEAKER: Are the whips ready for the question?

The question as put was: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the amendment?

All those in favour, 'aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Nay.

CLERK: We will need them to stand.

MR. SPEAKER: Yes, we will need those in favour of the amendment to stand.

CLERK: Ms Jones, Mr. Parsons, Ms Michael.

MR. SPEAKER: Those against.

CLERK: Mr. Rideout, Ms Burke, Mr. Kennedy, Ms Whalen, Mr. Hedderson, Mr. Tom Marshall, Mr. Ridgley, Ms Johnson, Mr. Skinner, Ms Pottle, Mr. O'Brien, Mr Hickey, Mr Oram, Mr Denine, Mr. Dinn, Mr. Kent, Mr. Baker, Mr. Hunter, Ms Elizabeth Marshall, Mr. Collins, Ms Sheila Osborne, Dr. King, Ms Sullivan, Mr. Dalley, Mr. Peach, Mr. Verge, Mr French, Mr. Harding, Mr. Hutchings, Mr. Loder, Mr. Forsey, Mr. Young, Mr. Kelly, Mr. Cornect, Mr. Buckingham.

Mr. Speaker, the Ayes three, the Nays thirty-five.

MR. SPEAKER: The amendment has been defeated.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion without amendment?

All those in favour, 'aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Division.

Division

MR. SPEAKER: Are the whips ready for the question?

The question as put is: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion without amendment?

All those in favour, stand.

CLERK: Mr. Rideout, Ms Burke, Mr. Kennedy, Ms Whalen, Mr. Hedderson, Mr. Tom Marshall, Mr. Ridgley, Ms Johnson, Mr. Skinner, Mr. O'Brien, Ms Pottle, Mr. Hickey, Mr. Oram, Mr. Denine, Mr. Dinn, Mr. Kent, Mr. Baker, Mr. Hunter, Ms Elizabeth Marshall, Mr. Collins, Ms Sheila Osborne, Dr. King, Ms Sullivan, Mr. Dalley, Mr. Peach, Mr. Verge, Mr. Hutchings, Mr. Harding, Mr. French, Mr. Young, Mr. Forsey, Mr. Loder, Mr. Buckingham, Mr. Cornect, Mr. Kelly, Ms Jones, Mr. Parsons, Ms Michael.

Mr. Speaker, the ayes, thirty-eight, the nays, zero.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think that concludes our parliamentary business for today, because this is Private Members' Day, and I therefore move, the House on its rising do adjourn until tomorrow, Thursday at 1:30, and that this House now adjourn.

MR. SPEAKER: The House is now adjourned.